Contents:
Drumming (Matthew Robert Lawrence <mrl@cheshire.oxy.edu>)
Re: Comparing musicians ("Jeff Gray" <jgray@ichips.intel.com>)
Re: seats ("Gary G. Moegling" <gmoeglin@bigcat.missouri.edu>)
Re: Rush vs. DT... ENOUGH!!!! (Michael Bahr <garion@indirect.com>)
Re: Is Learning To Live a "perfect song" (Michael Bahr <garion@indirect.com>)
Re: wdadu/liveu (Michael Bahr <garion@indirect.com>)
Re: P vs. P (drkhoe@netcom.com (Dr. Mosh))
Re: Rush vs. DT... ENOUGH!!!! ("Gary G. Moegling" <gmoeglin@bigcat.missouri.edu>)
Re: Porntoy vs. Ulrich? (drkhoe@netcom.com (Dr. Mosh))
Re: Rush vs. DT... ENOUGH!!!! ("Gary G. Moegling" <gmoeglin@bigcat.missouri.edu>)
Bass production on WD&DU (Jonathan_P._Larkowski@digidoc1.uu.holonet.net (Jonathan P. Larkowski))
Bass production on WD&DU (Jonathan_P._Larkowski@digidoc1.uu.holonet.net (Jonathan P. Larkowski))
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 1994 17:59:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Matthew Robert Lawrence <mrl@cheshire.oxy.edu>
Subject: Drumming
There have been a lot of posts recently on the subject of the skills of
Mike Portnoy and how he compares to the Rush drummer.
I would like to open a new avenue of discussion on this topic.
Recent airings of "Images and Words" have disillusioned me slightly
because I find the drumming sounds *dare I say it* programmed, or at least
"synthetic".
It may just be my CD player but the true test came when I played a live
version of "Surrounded" in comparison. Yes, the fills and the rhythm were
the same so there is no argument as to whether Portnoy can play what is
heard on the album.
So why then does the album drumming sound so artificial when it is
possible to get a far more realistic and quite frankly enjoyable drum
sound when it is recorded live? Why did the producers deem it necessary to
record such flat drum sounds?
What do the rest of you think? Please restore my faith in the band.
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 1994 20:49:04 -0800 (PST)
From: "Jeff Gray" <jgray@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Comparing musicians
> Like I said, comparing DT to Rush is just silly. Anyone who buys a
> Rush CD thinking they are gonna hear something like DT is going to
> be sorry.
This is the Ytsejam mailing list. We are probably all aware of that fact
and I would be surprised if any less than 90% of us weren't either Rush
fans before we heard of DT or were at least familiar enough with them to
know the difference.
> Now, the Lee/Myung argument: Myung is obviously better.
You just lost all credibility. In three years of reading people spout
opinions of just about everything under the sun over the net, there
is nothing I hate more than someone stating their preference for
something with the phrase "xxxx is OBVIOUSLY BETTER." There is no
quicker way to make oneself sound completely unreasonable, unless
you followed it with "you idiot".
> When was the last time Geddy Lee
> even ventured past the 12th fret on his bass? Has he ever experimented
> with tapping, slap/pop, harmonics?
So, you've been in the room with Geddy every minute he's played his bass
for the last 10-15 years?
> Stick it Out is the only
> Rush song that's not it standard tuning, over 20 albums!
I'm really not sure what that is supposed to imply with respect to
your opinion at all. Next thing you'll be saying is Myung is better because
he plays a six-string....
Am I flaming you because I think Geddy is better than Myung? No, and if you
respond in such a manner you'll be digging yourself deeper. Am I flaming
you because you need to learn how to make a discussion like this one
something worthwhile instead of causing it to degenerate into spouting
off hyperbole and opinion as fact and equating "I like xxxx" to "xxxx is
better than yyyy".
- jeff
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 1994 23:47:05 -0600 (CST)
From: "Gary G. Moegling" <gmoeglin@bigcat.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: seats
AMEN BROTHER!!! How can one focus on complex music while moshing is
beyond me!!! I know, I do both.
On Thu, 10 Mar 1994, Pat Daugherty wrote:
> Dream Theater is not a band for moshing or stage diving. I guess a lot
> of idiots will mosh to anything. Sure standing is the way to see the show,
> but moshing, etc takes away from the show, in my opinion.
>
>
> --Pat Daugherty
> pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 00:03:33 -40962758 (MST)
From: Michael Bahr <garion@indirect.com>
Subject: Re: Rush vs. DT... ENOUGH!!!!
>
> Sorry I feel like being an asshole, but for someone who's been playing
> piano for 15 years, you mentioned 5/3 time signature, could you explain
> what the hell that is ???? :)
Yeah what WOULD that be???!?! Five beats per measure, third note
gets the beat? There's no such thing as a third note.
Far as I can tell, the bottom number in any sig has to be a power of 2.
2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, nobody can really go faster. The top can be any
number of thjings, but not 1.
Mike/garion@indirect.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 00:08:46 -40962758 (MST)
From: Michael Bahr <garion@indirect.com>
Subject: Re: Is Learning To Live a "perfect song"
> Who is this Company Of Wolves band, and should I buy their stuff? I like
> the other groups on your list. . .
Company of Wolves, much like Dream Theater a while ago, put out
one album that I thought was so blowaway it wasn't even funny. And then
they dropped off the face of the earth. I saw them Once on tour at a rock
festival, in fact at the only annual concert held in my fair city, the
Rocktoberfest at Chandler Compadre Stadium. They ruled.
COW (I hate the arconym, but...) plays more straightforward rock
than Rush or DT, but they do so much with vocal harmony and guitar
texture in the guise of "small town rock" that it's really a typ3e of
music all its own.As you listen to the entire album, you can almost feel
yourself on the porch of a bar somewhere in evergreen country during
party season. It's not Country-rock, it's plain metal alright, but with a
feel that I think no other band has captured through music.
They only put out one album, self-titled. It has twelve songs on
it, of which eleven are among my all time favorites. But the best of them
all, "Call of the Wild" seems to be the quintessential song. It has
everything that makes a song great, and it's executed FANTASTICALLY.
Vocal harmony, acoustic and electric texture, soloing, solid bass play
and counterbeat, good fills, good lyrics, and the whole is more than the
sum of its parts.
If nobody can find it (it's long out of print) I will gladly
offer it as an "ordinary bootleg" in my bootleg trade list.
Mike/garion@indirect.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 00:10:23 -40962758 (MST)
From: Michael Bahr <garion@indirect.com>
Subject: Re: wdadu/liveu
>
> live at the marquee is really good, also WDADU is good only they have a
> differnt singer Charlie dominicci
>
Am I the only one who thinks that, in general, the SONGS on WDADU
have more lasting value than the songs on IAW? I wish LaBrie had sung on
WDADU! I can hear the sounds of A Fortune In Lies, Ytse Jam, Afterlife,
and Only A Matter Of Time unbidden in my head during the ordinary day.
There really does seem to be a lot TO those songs.
Mike/garion@indirect.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 1994 23:18:58 PST
From: drkhoe@netcom.com (Dr. Mosh)
Subject: Re: P vs. P
>> it don't matter who's better, Peart or Portnoy... cause Zonders is far
>> more technically better than either of them...
>
> "Technically", meaning "chops", I'd have to agree. As far as tasteful
>playing goes, however......
>
Well, each drummers "style" is definitely different... Portnoy is more metal
while Zonders is more jazz derived, these two being compared to Peart.
-- =+=+*&^*^%&%$%$$#%$#%#$!@$#@$%^%&&&^*&((*)(*)(*&*(*(&(^&*&^*&^*&^&*^&*&^=+=+= Real: drkhoe@netcom.com Virtual: drkhoe@gnu.ai.mit.eduOnly immortals can feel the ultimate thrill more than once... -Death ====$%($#)%($#%*@)*$#*$)%*@)*)*)!!)$)%*^)%$^*%$)^*)&*^)%&^%)&^)*&)*^%^#@!====
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 01:24:33 -0600 (CST) From: "Gary G. Moegling" <gmoeglin@bigcat.missouri.edu> Subject: Re: Rush vs. DT... ENOUGH!!!!
That's a good question, what would a 5/3 rhythm be like? That's a cool point to ponder. I think that whoever wrote that meant 5/4, but I don't remember what he was talking about at the time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------- According to the circle of fifths, and the pattern of sharps and flats: If the alphabet continued as notes progressed (i.e, a,a#,b,c,c#...g#,h,i,j,etc) eventually the key of Z Major would have 4 sharps. Eric Moegling gmoeglin@bigcat.missouri.edu -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Thu, 10 Mar 1994 ASILVERM@umiami.ir.miami.edu wrote:
> Sorry I feel like being an asshole, but for someone who's been playing > piano for 15 years, you mentioned 5/3 time signature, could you explain > what the hell that is ???? :) > > Aaron > ASILVERM@UMIAMI >
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 1994 23:27:33 PST From: drkhoe@netcom.com (Dr. Mosh) Subject: Re: Porntoy vs. Ulrich?
As for Ulrich... he's not even in the same league buddy... he's never had formal training and he can't play double bass wortha sh*t... he was interviewed in Drum magazine and he complained about how hard it was to play Dyer's Eve live because of the double bass... bleah....
-The Doc
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 02:01:38 -0600 (CST) From: "Gary G. Moegling" <gmoeglin@bigcat.missouri.edu> Subject: Re: Rush vs. DT... ENOUGH!!!!
What's up with you people? DT is DT, and Rush is Rush, let it rest!!! They are two different bands, that have achieved different things with thier talents, and they both have different goals musically. They are both good bands with progressive styles, and complex ways (I've studied Music Theory intensly for over three years, and it doesn't get much more complex). Let's get to something a little more productive, I don't think that whoever it was that started the whole "DTvsRush" thing meant for it to get this intense, and I don't think that any of they guys in either of the bands would consider it a very productive thing to do. I'm a fan of both bands (DT a little bit more than Rush, but I think it's not fair to compare), and would like to see both bands continue to progress in the manner in wich they have chosen. And one last thing, someone pointed this out earlier, and I think it is somewhat of a noteworthy matter, DT went to Berklee, and not Berkley, (actually the two john's, and Mike were the only one's) and considering that they only went there for a total of maybe a year, it would be kind of hard for the three to have graduated, or much less earn a master's (this is striaght from the words of John Petrucci in an issue of GW last year). I don't mean to criticize in any way by repeating this, but Berklee is an awesome Music School, and it is far from the Berkley of Cali, and I just wanted to make others aware of the difference between the two. That's all for now, and Party on fellow DT fans.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------- According to the circle of fifths, and the pattern of sharps and flats: If the alphabet continued as notes progressed (i.e, a,a#,b,c,c#...g#,h,i,j,etc) eventually the key of Z Major would have 4 sharps. Eric Moegling gmoeglin@bigcat.missouri.edu -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Thu, 10 Mar 1994, Dave Re wrote:
> > As for the claim that Portney doesn't have the $$ to do what Peart does... > > please! Folks, just about everything taught today about proper drumming in > > rock was pioneered by Peart (Portney should know - he went to Berklee.). > > Just hold on a minute here so I can laugh my ass off. This is too much. > I'm sorry, but you are *HORRIBLY* misinformed. Really. First off, the cats > are Berkeley could give a crap about rock. Second, what the hell is "proper > drumming in rock"??? > I can guaran-damn-tee that drum profs at Berkeley don't get up there > and say "Ok, now here's the Neil Peart double-stroke roll applied to going > around the toms". Naw. Ain't gonna happen. Sorry. > Most of the guys who invented that stuff are *DEAD*. Howdya like that?? > Buddy Rich, guys like that. Hey, guess what, they were *Peart's* influences. > Ringo Starr. Yep, the man actually played most of his drum parts. Need I go > on??? > > > A classic example was the one-handed snare roll. But, don't take my > > Oh god. First off, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A "ONE-HANDED ROLL". Its > a trick that takes a lot of practice, but you can still hear separations > between strokes, etc. Its not a roll. Its an extened multiple bounce. > Second, he didn't invent it. He didn't invent anything that he plays > (except for some of his triggered sounds). Noone left alive has invented > anything that they play. Some people rip-off other better, thats all. > > > now. If *that* doesn't convince you, consider the fact that Portney's > > entire set is the EXACT SAME set that Peart used in the Grace Under > > Pressure tour (not counting MIDIs and triggers, which have obviously > > improved with age). > > Nope. Sorry. You're wrong there, too. Before you go throwing words > like "exact" around, I suggest you think about what they mean. Beyond that, > Mike is only playing an 10 piece kit. 3 toms, two floors, 2 kicks, a snare, > and two timbales. Neil's acoustic kit is somewhere around 13 to 14 pieces > (add in a couple concert toms and a gong bass drum). Plus, Neil has many > more non-traditional drum set instruments. On the kit he played before he > went electronic, he had a xylphone, orchestra bells, chimes, wind chimes, > temple blocks, wood blocks, etc. Mike has an LP Jam-Blok (quasi woodblock), > wind chimes, and a tambourine. Maybe a cowbell, as well. > I won't even get into cybmals. Needless to say, both cymbal setups > differ *significantly*. > > Come on, people. Don't flame with wrong facts. Beyond that, what a > person plays, instrument wise, has nothing to do with who they sound like, > who their influences are, etc. Saying that, just because I play a kit with > two toms upfront, two floor toms and a kickdrum means that I play just > like drummer X with band Y is real stupid..... > > -- > Dave Re |"I am your master, when you're all alone. > OIT/TS/ISD | You can come to me child, when you're without home. > ccoprdr@prism.gatech.edu | I will share your pain, of long lost dignity. > | Happiness evades you, you'll get no sympathy." > | "Father of the Night", Crowdad > "Huh huh. You want cash, or should we go spank the monkey again? Huh Huh." > "Beating heads on the Early Warning soul train..........." > "Huh huh. He's fallen, and he can't get it up. Huh huh..." >
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 94 23:25:23 CST From: Jonathan_P._Larkowski@digidoc1.uu.holonet.net (Jonathan P. Larkowski) Subject: Bass production on WD&DU
Now, is it just me or is the bass production on WD&DU just terrible? It sounds like he's picking with a drumstick! Now, I realize I'm just a dumb guitar player, but I think he has a MUCH better bass sound on I&W. WD&DU just makes me sick when I hear it (the guitar is pretty thin, too). Flame on...
Lark
P.S.--Two tabbed guitar notes from somewhere on I&W, you figure out where... :)
e|------| B|------| G|------| B|----2-| A|-4----| E|------| DigitalDoctor* BBS
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 94 23:27:11 CST From: Jonathan_P._Larkowski@digidoc1.uu.holonet.net (Jonathan P. Larkowski) Subject: Bass production on WD&DU
Now, is it just me or is the bass production on WD&DU just terrible? It sounds like he's picking with a drumstick! Now, I realize I'm just a dumb guitar player, but I think he has a MUCH better bass sound on I&W. WD&DU just makes me sick when I hear it (the guitar is pretty thin, too). Flame on...
Lark
P.S.--Two tabbed guitar notes from somewhere on I&W, you figure out where... :)
e|------| B|------| G|------| D|----2-| A|-4----| E|------|
Oops... that's a D up above--back to theory... DigitalDoctor* BBS
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