YTSEJAM digest 3302

From: ytsejam@ax.com
Date: Sun Nov 30 1997 - 14:46:53 EST

  • Next message: ytsejam@ax.com: "YTSEJAM digest 3299"

                                YTSEJAM Digest 3302

    Today's Topics:

      1) Re:BAD DT REVIEW!
     by AEllis1222@aol.com
      2) Marillion live...
     by Adam <alpineone@mindspring.com>
      3) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3300
     by "Richard A. Rivera" <rrivera@zoo.uvm.edu>
      4) Re: BAD REVIEW
     by "Brian P. Kelley" <bpkelley@mindspring.com>
      5) A +LIVE+ comment
     by JE78674@ltu.edu
      6) Fixed?
     by anitya@juno.com (Bracken N MacLeod)
      7) what "Mitchell Foy" really wants...
     by Daniel Vasconcelos Gomes <danielvg@sel.eesc.sc.usp.br>
      8) London Gig and Gordian Knot/Sean Malone
     by Tim Spear <veilmaya@dircon.co.uk>
      9) Re: Re Bad review
     by VAIMAN <vaiman@mindspring.com>
     10) Re: A +LIVE+ comment
     by Christopher Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
     11) Mitchell Foy review comments
     by Adam <alpineone@mindspring.com>
     12) re: complexity
     by Pat Sullivan <psull@ici.net>
     13) Mitchell Foy
     by Christopher Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
     14) Re: Re Bad review
     by Mike Cullen <secrets@i1.net>

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 01:26:09 -0500 (EST)
    From: AEllis1222@aol.com
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Re:BAD DT REVIEW!
    Message-ID: <971130012608_-758017918@mrin39>

    Here's what I wrote him!

    <<<Regarding this review you did of Dream Theater's "Falling Into Infinity",
     The singer is James LaBrie, not John Petrucci, and I suggest you get your
    head out of your ass, clean the shit out of your ears, and learn to
    appreciate good music! >>>

    Art

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 02:19:12 -0500
    From: Adam <alpineone@mindspring.com>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Marillion live...
    Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19971130021912.007e4950@mindspring.com>

            Did a quick Eudora search of the last 40 Ytsejams and didn't see this
    posted. If it's already been said, well, too bad... :)

            Liveconcerts.com, the same 'Net site that's bringing us Dream Theater live
    (well, a live recording) tomorrow, is doing a Marillion Cybercast Wednesday
    December 10 at 3:30pm EST. If you'd like to check it out try this URL:

    http://www.liveconcerts.com/events/971210marillionstation/

    /me just got home from a two week stint in Jamaica...

    /me just found out that DT is coming to ATLANTA!! Whoots!! :)

    /me has exams this week and will be hatin' life for awhile...

    Take care...

    Adam
    http://www.mindspring.com/~alpineone
    -- Above URL for bootlist w/ setlists...

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 02:35:30 -0500 (EST)
    From: "Richard A. Rivera" <rrivera@zoo.uvm.edu>
    To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
    Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3300
    Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.96.971130022929.85716C-100000@elk.uvm.edu>

    On Sat, 29 Nov 1997 ytsejam@ax.com wrote:
    > Hey all,
    >
    > I live here in Atlanta GA and noticed a music review in
    > a small Atlanta publication called "Poets, Artists & Madmen".
    > In the Nov 21-Dec 4th review...here is what Mitchell Foy had
    > to say on the Dream Theater "Falling Into Infinity" cd review:
    >
    >> **THE FOLLOWING DOES NOT REFLECT MY VIEWS**-todd s
    >
    Wow. Reading that review made me sick. Not because it's an unfavorable
    opinion, which would be okay, I guess. But because it barely even
    qualifies as a review. The guy obviously has an agenda. Amazing: there's
    a waiting period to own a gun, yet they'll give anyone a typewriter.

                                            Richie

     Currently playing: Hanson "Middle Of Nowhere." Fuck the detractors,
    this is some good stuff.,

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 04:17:51 -0500
    From: "Brian P. Kelley" <bpkelley@mindspring.com>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Re: BAD REVIEW
    Message-ID: <199711300814.DAA29237@camel8.mindspring.com>

    In YTSEJAM digest 3301, VAIMAN <vaiman@mindspring.com> wrote:

    >
    >
    >
    > Hey all,
    >
    > I live here in Atlanta GA and noticed a music review in
    > a small Atlanta publication called "Poets, Artists & Madmen".
    > In the Nov 21-Dec 4th review...here is what Mitchell Foy had
    > to say on the Dream Theater "Falling Into Infinity" cd review:
    >
    >
    > **THE FOLLOWING DOES NOT REFLECT MY VIEWS**-todd s
    >

    Don't worry, Vaiman! We believe you! ;)

    >
    > "Any Positive press about Dream Theater ultimately
    > focuses on the band's "dazzling virtuosity." For any band,
    > this is usually a clear warning to stay far away. For Dream Theater,
    > the further the better.
    >

    Like he said, the further he stays away from reviewing DT, the better!

    > "Falling Into Infinity" is full of pomposity that attempts to
    > manipulate the listener with overblown dynamics and cheesy dramatics.

    You failed to mention "overblown dramatics" and "cheesy dynamics", putz!

    > any given song, one is reminded of slews of yesteryear's bands - none
    > of which are any good. In the first song alone, Guns'n Roses, Asia
    and
    > latter-day Rush are prominent. It is impossible to say just what
    Dream

    He obviously hasn't heard the tribute cover of NM performed by the group
    comprised of Steve Howe, Duff, and Neil Peart, formally known as "Guns'n
    Russia". (bad one, I know :)

    > Theater themselves sound like without referring to the has-beens they
    > rip off. After awhile the effect of listening becomes one big blur of
    > horrible '80s sounds (overly boisterous guitar, wimpy synth, male
    >falsetto
    > vocals) that were long ago pushed deep into the subconscious with
    >the hopes
    > that they'd never return. Well, like the whole '80s hair-metal
    >"movement,"

    Hair? Did he say "Hair"? How dare he compare DT to the dreaded "H" word!!!

    > those painful memories are back, spurred by Dream Theater, who also
    mix
    > pop-rock and prog rock into their cocky stew. Though D.T's metal
    >tendencies
    > lean mostly toward the wimpiest of the '80s metal bunch like
    >Cinderella, Winger
    > and Extreme, they attempt to show they have cajones on the single

    Well, at least he has enough IQ to identify three more bands "closely
    related" (*cough!*) to metal. Unbeknowest to the writer, he was
    cryogenically set in a capsule (c. 1988-89) and thawed out just in time to
    write this review. The result: an 80s mentality living in a 90s reality.
    Hey, that would be a great title for a song, wouldn't it?! :)

    > "Burning My Soul" but still fall flat despite the presence of a few
    >(comparatively)
    > beefy riffs. This is mainly due to overproduction that would render
    >a Slayer song
    > flaccid and bland lead singer, John Petrucci, who spends too much
    >time in the
    > high-end range. Any lyricist who is not in, say, high school knows

    What?!?! You mean I've been fooled all this time thinking JLB was singing
    when actually, JP is a superb vocalist AND ventriloquist?!?!! This must be
    the best lip-synching job since them ol' Milli Vanilli days ;)

    >to avoid
    > cliches such as rhyming "pain" and "rain," but Petrucci manages to
    >use it in a
    > chorus, no less!
    >

    Remember, Foybean -- you're still in the 80s! You're actually reviewing
    Dream Academy, not Dream Theater!

    > When I was in the 10th grade my class was shown an anti-drug
    >film about
    > some guy who was administered lots of PCP in order to coerce him
    >into killing someone.
    > Perhaps they should update that film to include the music of Dream
    >Theater, because
    > I don't beelieve "Falling Into Infinity" can be experienced in its
    >entirety without
    > compelling the listener to throttle the nearest sibling or house
    >pet."-Mitchell Foy
    >
    >

    <to clueless journalist wanna-be>

    If your journalism experience stemmed straight out of high school, then tell
    me this: How much of your own lunch money did you use to bribe the
    newspaper editor into printing your reviews? You apparently bought a couple
    professors off to pass the curriculum. My advice for you is to devote any
    future music reviews to the bubble-pop category of Spice Girls and Hanson.
    The only problem is you would get both groups mixed up!!!
    (boom-ba-da-bumphhh!!!!) ***

    *** MP on rimshot!!! :)

    Now whether you respond to him or not personally on this matter, that's fine
    -- I surely will! Do it in a constructive, tactful manner though! How we
    respond to this "writer" between ourselves is purely confidential and in
    good fun! Let's not wreck his upcoming work week with hate mail, shall we?
    He needs to focus on his Monday interview with boyhood idol band New Kids On
    The Block. [remember, still in the 80s?]

    Take the time,
    Brian

    PS This is a fine example of constructive "counter-criticism" :)

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 04:51:57 -0400 (EDT)
    From: JE78674@ltu.edu
    To: YTSEJAM@ax.com
    Subject: A +LIVE+ comment
    Message-ID: <01IQLWEY2B3M8WZ1YP@LTU.EDU>

    Hello all,

    I've been listening to my +LIVE+ CD's the last couple of days and have
    noticed something. Before I proceed, I consider the EP Four Songs to be
    a part of Mental Jewelry. Anyway, I never did purchase the latest
    release because what I heard on the radio just didn't sound like +LIVE+
    to me...kind of commercial? I dunno...anyhow, this reflects Mental
    Jewelry to Throwing Copper.

    I feel that their first work has got to be some of the most emotionally
    influenced and driven music I have in my collection. You just get this
    (well I do) overwhelming feeling that the band's emotions were poured
    into every track. On the Throwing Copper album, that feeling isn't
    really there. I do indeed enjoy Throwing Copper, especially when
    it gets to Pillar of Davidson and White, Discussion. However, their
    emotions are present in the album entirety when it comes to MJ.

    Just my observation..anyone else agree?

    But here is the question...does +LIVE+ not believe in God and do or were
    they neo-nazi people? I'm making this observation off of their lyrics to
    2 particular songs (Operation Spirit and Top). I know their lyrics are
    pretty much impossible to understand, but what they say sticks out.

    In OS, he says, "Heard a lot of talk about this Jesus
                     a man of love and a man of strength
                     but what a man was 2000 years ago
                     means nothing at all to me today
                     He could have been telling me about my higher-self
                     but He only lives inside my prayers
                     So what he was may have been beautiful
                     But the pain is right now and right here."

    In Top, "Oh Hitler in a robe of truth
                     my emptyness has built your alter
                     and I worshipped myself in you forever
                     until now"

    So, I think it's clear to see where my suspicions come from. If anyone
    has researched this same thing, please e-mail me.

    *DISCLAIMER* I do not support the two views I have places for
                  speculation. I merely want to know the truth behind
                  +LIVE+'s convictions. I meant to say PLACED where it
                  says PLACES above, sorry.

    Take care,

    Jeff E.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 09:05:55 -0500
    From: anitya@juno.com (Bracken N MacLeod)
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Fixed?
    Message-ID: <19971130.090601.9230.0.anitya@juno.com>

    I haven't been able to post to the 'Jam for well over a month now. Am I
    getting through?
            Incidentally, I was at school (Quinnipiac College) the other day
    (actually, I'm a law student there *every* day but just happened to
    notice THIS the other day), and noticed a white car (don't ask me more
    about this, I'm not a car guy) with black tinted windows. In the parking
    lot. "So what!" you might say. Well, in the center of the back window
    was a huge Majesty logo, and the front license plate read: "Metropolis --
    the Miracle and the Sleeper." I'm wondering if there's another 'Jammer
    at QCSL. Is there? Hmmm?

    Slainte,
    Bracken

    It's always darkest just before I open my eyes.
    ----------

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 13:20:52 -0200 (EDT)
    From: Daniel Vasconcelos Gomes <danielvg@sel.eesc.sc.usp.br>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Cc: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
    Subject: what "Mitchell Foy" really wants...
    Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.971130130537.2620D-100000@POCAHONTAS>

    hello all,

    1)

    <<The result is its best album, a mix of astounding virtuosity and leaner
    songs and arrangements. >>
    <<This is from the January 1998 issue of Guitar For The Practicing Musician>>

    2)

    <<"Falling Into Infinity" is full of pomposity that attempts to
    manipulate the listener with overblown dynamics and cheesy dramatics.
    any given song, one is reminded of slews of yesteryear's bands - none
    of which are any good. In the first song alone, Guns'n Roses,
    Asia and latter-day Rush are prominent. It is impossible to say just what
    Dream(...)>>>

    hello all,

    As you can see reading 1) and 2) there is a big difference between
    a 'good' critic and a 'bad' critic.
    The first, tries to hear and understand the album to find out its
    qualities and its defects. No matter if the writer likes or not
    what its being written.
    Second example its just a fuckin bastard with big problems in live
    trying to get some attention, using DT fans. He does not want to
    do something interesting to be read, he wants only to threat.
    I my self added this fucker into my list of the "Biggest assholes
    I ever saw". But if we all email him, we'd be only doing what he wants.
    Paul just wrote all that should be emailed to this asshole,
    he wrote all i'd like to write to this bastard.
    In Brazil musical press its even worst than american, coz 90 %
    of the people who writes about music fits on the 2nd example,
    and 98 % hates prog rock and 99% never played any instrument.

    that's all for now,

    Daniel V.Gomes
    (Aragorn)

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 30 Nov 97 15:59:28 -0000
    From: Tim Spear <veilmaya@dircon.co.uk>
    To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
    Subject: London Gig and Gordian Knot/Sean Malone
    Message-ID: <199711301559.PAA22622@mailhost.dircon.co.uk>

    > well I have my tickets for the London date.
    > Not knowing London well could someone point me in the direction of
    > the Forum. Nearest underground station and the decent local pubs
    > would be useful.

    nearest tube is Kentish town, on the northern line... beware tho,cos the
    northern line splits at camdem so make sure you get the right bit of it...

    best pub is the Bull & Gate which is slap-bang next door to the Forum,
    you cant miss it...turn up, get pissed and go shout "PLAY STATUS SEEKER!"
    at James LaBrie for a guaranteed reaction ;-)

    Ill be there with a few other geezers, prob wearing my 'jam shirt, but
    I'm aiming to turn up just b4 DT go on cos i dont want to run into my
    ex-gfriend :-(

    couple of other things... there was a post here about Sean Malone and
    Gordian Knot..That CD is being written as we speak and should be out next
    year. Ive just finished Sean's personal site which goes alongside
    AHAMKARA - The official Cynic Site, the former of which is at
    http://home1.gte.net/fugue/ and the latter should be in my sig...Sean's
    site will have all the info on the Gordian Knot cd, including a session
    journal which he keeps on the progress of the project (the first part of
    which Im going to mark-up soon)...

    Tim Spear
    Veilmaya - http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~veilmaya/
    Ahamkara - the official Cynic Website -
    http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~veilmaya/cynic/

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 11:51:40 -0500
    From: VAIMAN <vaiman@mindspring.com>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Re: Re Bad review
    Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19971130165140.006ab9dc@pop.mindspring.com>

    >Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 11:45:46 -0500
    >Subject: Re: Re Bad review
    >
    >At 02:54 PM 11/30/97 +0100, Neil Gallop wrote:
    >>I don't see why you are getting so pissed off because some guy who
    >>clearly doesn't like Dream Theater writes a bad review.

           I just found the review interesting. I don't feel it was a very
    fair review. It was almost like he didn't even give it a listen
    or chance. He had his mind made up before the review. The guy has his opinion
    and I am all for that.

    > Perhaps you
    >>wanted to let off a bit of steam on the jam, but did you really have to
    >>send the thing THREE times?
    >>
    >>Neil Gallop

           That was a mistake. Sorry. :) I was meaning to send it four times.
    (hahaha..just kidding!)

                    Take care,

                                            Todd S

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 11:45:51 -0600 (CST)
    From: Christopher Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Re: A +LIVE+ comment
    Message-ID: <199711301745.LAA26049@enteract.com>

            Are we just all through paying attention to what the subscription
    letter says, or what? Religion and alternative music? I hope this plague
    isn't going to spread.

    - Chris

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 13:03:53 -0500
    From: Adam <alpineone@mindspring.com>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Mitchell Foy review comments
    Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19971130130353.00799960@mindspring.com>

    Hey folks...

    If y'all are planning to write to Mitchell Foy about his review, PLEASE try
    to make the letter intelligent and mature. People have posted their
    replies to him on the Jam and some of them are, very honestly, quite
    unflattering to the DT worshipping community. There's no need to call Foy
    names like "pussy" and "dillhole" (?!?). These kinds of comments make the
    email writer and the DT group as a whole look like a bunch of foolish,
    stupid 15 year olds. There's enough blatant stupidity in Foy's article to
    analyze and disagree with it without having to resort to immature tactics
    such as name-calling. And besides, a person who calmly analyzes an article
    and can point out it's faults is SOOOOOOO much more effective than some
    fool going "you don't like DT? Fuck you, you pussy!" Take care...

    Adam
    http://www.mindspring.com/~alpineone
    - Above URL for bootlist w/ setlists

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 13:16:37 -0500
    From: Pat Sullivan <psull@ici.net>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: re: complexity
    Message-ID: <3.0.32.19971130131551.00698b0c@mail.ici.net>

    >On the topic of complexity, I think another thing is important to
    >consider. DT is not playing with a score or conductor, yet their
    >arangements and counterpoint are tight. No, it's not as complex as
    >sclassical music when talking about layers and such, though I think they
    >could do maybe a tiny bit more that way.

    I'm of two minds here. On one hand, I agree that listening to the
    arrangements they play on their recordings is great. It's neat to listen
    closely and hear some of the stuff they add that's way in the background,
    stuff that adds texture to the music. Very few "rock" bands take the time
    to do that.

    Classical music has those parts as well, but they are written with the
    knowledge that a full orchestra is required to perform the piece
    (generally). There's virtually no way DT can duplicate those studio
    intricacies. When you have 8-10 musical "layers", and only 4 musical
    instruments, sacrifices have to be made in the live environment. Maybe it's
    just me, but sometime I'd like to see DT performing with backup musicians
    so that *all* the parts that are on the recordings are actually performed.

    -----
     
     
    _____Pat Sullivan_____________________________________
    E-Mail: psull@ici.net
    WWW: http://www.ici.net/cust_pages/psull/psull.html
    IRC: DDictator ICQ: 2049374
    ______________________________________________________
    It's not hard to meet expenses, they're everywhere.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 12:26:46 -0600 (CST)
    From: Christopher Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
    To: madmen@atlanta.com
    Cc: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Mitchell Foy
    Message-ID: <199711301826.MAA02478@enteract.com>

    Greetings, Poets, Artists, and Madmen.

            I was recently delivered a copy of a review from your fine, fine
    publication. The topic was Dream Theater, and the (I use the term loosly)
    writer was Mitchell Foy. Let me tell you, I have not laughed like that
    in some time! It never fails to amuse me to see how someone so
    ill-informed can attempt to review an album. It reminds me, in fact, of
    a high school student trying to bullshit his way through a report on a
    book he never read. Understand, of course, that I take no objection to
    his opinions or even the tactless manner in which his review was composed
    (we all grow up sooner or later...) but I do think that from the
    perspective of your publication, it would be in your best interest to
    request that your reviewers actually take the time to "listen" to the
    lbums their reviewing. I would think that a publication based on "Poets,
    Artists, and Madmen" would have some respect for Art, or at least Artists.
            Clearly when someone mistakes the guitarist for the vocalist, that
    person has not put a great deal of effort into his or her work. I
    understand that poor Mitchell has some inferiority complex, and just can't
    handle people who don't "fit into his crowd" but while seeking attention
    may be useful to your publication, I don't think this is the kind of
    attention you're looking for. This person had an agenda before the cd
    ever made its way into his vile cd player.
            It's one thing to be biased upon being delivered a new album to
    review. Surely, if you were to pass the newest "Jewel" album off on me,
    I would not write the most stunning review. However, I think the line is
    crossed when the reviewer makes it personal, insulting the people making the
    music, and not just criticizing the parts of the music that he or she
    finds distasteful. That, as any debater will tell you, is not only
    flawed logic, but also extremely immature.
            Perhaps, not being a reader of your publication (with this
    exception,) your goal is to provide literary and artistic criticism for
    the 12-17 year old age group, while offering an excellent source of
    kindling for those less "Mentally Numb" in these colder months. If so,
    congratulations! If not, I would hope that you're making some attempt to
    put out a quality independent paper that doesn't have to abide by the
    company's higher agendas. Should that be the case, then I recommend that
    you reconsider your policies on accepting submissions.

    Best wishes, and happy holidays,

    - Chris Ptacek
      Prognosis, L.L.P.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 14:09:53 -0800
    From: Mike Cullen <secrets@i1.net>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Re: Re Bad review
    Message-ID: <3481E431.5F36@i1.net>

    Bad reviews are a dime a dozen. What pissed me off is the fact the guy
    had no idea what he was talking about! If he had taken the time to
    listen to the music it would have been a different story.
    The jerk doesnt deserve to be a music critic.
    Mike

    VAIMAN wrote:
    >
    > >Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 11:45:46 -0500
    > >Subject: Re: Re Bad review
    > >
    > >At 02:54 PM 11/30/97 +0100, Neil Gallop wrote:
    > >>I don't see why you are getting so pissed off because some guy who
    > >>clearly doesn't like Dream Theater writes a bad review.
    >
    > I just found the review interesting. I don't feel it was a very
    > fair review. It was almost like he didn't even give it a listen
    > or chance. He had his mind made up before the review. The guy has his opinion
    > and I am all for that.
    >
    > > Perhaps you
    > >>wanted to let off a bit of steam on the jam, but did you really have to
    > >>send the thing THREE times?
    > >>
    > >>Neil Gallop
    >
    > That was a mistake. Sorry. :) I was meaning to send it four times.
    > (hahaha..just kidding!)
    >
    > Take care,
    >
    > Todd S

    ------------------------------

    End of YTSEJAM Digest 3302
    **************************



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