YTSEJAM Digest 3302
Today's Topics:
1) Re:BAD DT REVIEW!
by AEllis1222@aol.com
2) Marillion live...
by Adam <alpineone@mindspring.com>
3) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3300
by "Richard A. Rivera" <rrivera@zoo.uvm.edu>
4) Re: BAD REVIEW
by "Brian P. Kelley" <bpkelley@mindspring.com>
5) A +LIVE+ comment
by JE78674@ltu.edu
6) Fixed?
by anitya@juno.com (Bracken N MacLeod)
7) what "Mitchell Foy" really wants...
by Daniel Vasconcelos Gomes <danielvg@sel.eesc.sc.usp.br>
8) London Gig and Gordian Knot/Sean Malone
by Tim Spear <veilmaya@dircon.co.uk>
9) Re: Re Bad review
by VAIMAN <vaiman@mindspring.com>
10) Re: A +LIVE+ comment
by Christopher Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
11) Mitchell Foy review comments
by Adam <alpineone@mindspring.com>
12) re: complexity
by Pat Sullivan <psull@ici.net>
13) Mitchell Foy
by Christopher Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
14) Re: Re Bad review
by Mike Cullen <secrets@i1.net>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 01:26:09 -0500 (EST)
From: AEllis1222@aol.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re:BAD DT REVIEW!
Message-ID: <971130012608_-758017918@mrin39>
Here's what I wrote him!
<<<Regarding this review you did of Dream Theater's "Falling Into Infinity",
The singer is James LaBrie, not John Petrucci, and I suggest you get your
head out of your ass, clean the shit out of your ears, and learn to
appreciate good music! >>>
Art
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 02:19:12 -0500
From: Adam <alpineone@mindspring.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Marillion live...
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19971130021912.007e4950@mindspring.com>
Did a quick Eudora search of the last 40 Ytsejams and didn't see this
posted. If it's already been said, well, too bad... :)
Liveconcerts.com, the same 'Net site that's bringing us Dream Theater live
(well, a live recording) tomorrow, is doing a Marillion Cybercast Wednesday
December 10 at 3:30pm EST. If you'd like to check it out try this URL:
http://www.liveconcerts.com/events/971210marillionstation/
/me just got home from a two week stint in Jamaica...
/me just found out that DT is coming to ATLANTA!! Whoots!! :)
/me has exams this week and will be hatin' life for awhile...
Take care...
Adam
http://www.mindspring.com/~alpineone
-- Above URL for bootlist w/ setlists...
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 02:35:30 -0500 (EST)
From: "Richard A. Rivera" <rrivera@zoo.uvm.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3300
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.96.971130022929.85716C-100000@elk.uvm.edu>
On Sat, 29 Nov 1997 ytsejam@ax.com wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> I live here in Atlanta GA and noticed a music review in
> a small Atlanta publication called "Poets, Artists & Madmen".
> In the Nov 21-Dec 4th review...here is what Mitchell Foy had
> to say on the Dream Theater "Falling Into Infinity" cd review:
>
>> **THE FOLLOWING DOES NOT REFLECT MY VIEWS**-todd s
>
Wow. Reading that review made me sick. Not because it's an unfavorable
opinion, which would be okay, I guess. But because it barely even
qualifies as a review. The guy obviously has an agenda. Amazing: there's
a waiting period to own a gun, yet they'll give anyone a typewriter.
Richie
Currently playing: Hanson "Middle Of Nowhere." Fuck the detractors,
this is some good stuff.,
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 04:17:51 -0500
From: "Brian P. Kelley" <bpkelley@mindspring.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: BAD REVIEW
Message-ID: <199711300814.DAA29237@camel8.mindspring.com>
In YTSEJAM digest 3301, VAIMAN <vaiman@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hey all,
>
> I live here in Atlanta GA and noticed a music review in
> a small Atlanta publication called "Poets, Artists & Madmen".
> In the Nov 21-Dec 4th review...here is what Mitchell Foy had
> to say on the Dream Theater "Falling Into Infinity" cd review:
>
>
> **THE FOLLOWING DOES NOT REFLECT MY VIEWS**-todd s
>
Don't worry, Vaiman! We believe you! ;)
>
> "Any Positive press about Dream Theater ultimately
> focuses on the band's "dazzling virtuosity." For any band,
> this is usually a clear warning to stay far away. For Dream Theater,
> the further the better.
>
Like he said, the further he stays away from reviewing DT, the better!
> "Falling Into Infinity" is full of pomposity that attempts to
> manipulate the listener with overblown dynamics and cheesy dramatics.
You failed to mention "overblown dramatics" and "cheesy dynamics", putz!
> any given song, one is reminded of slews of yesteryear's bands - none
> of which are any good. In the first song alone, Guns'n Roses, Asia
and
> latter-day Rush are prominent. It is impossible to say just what
Dream
He obviously hasn't heard the tribute cover of NM performed by the group
comprised of Steve Howe, Duff, and Neil Peart, formally known as "Guns'n
Russia". (bad one, I know :)
> Theater themselves sound like without referring to the has-beens they
> rip off. After awhile the effect of listening becomes one big blur of
> horrible '80s sounds (overly boisterous guitar, wimpy synth, male
>falsetto
> vocals) that were long ago pushed deep into the subconscious with
>the hopes
> that they'd never return. Well, like the whole '80s hair-metal
>"movement,"
Hair? Did he say "Hair"? How dare he compare DT to the dreaded "H" word!!!
> those painful memories are back, spurred by Dream Theater, who also
mix
> pop-rock and prog rock into their cocky stew. Though D.T's metal
>tendencies
> lean mostly toward the wimpiest of the '80s metal bunch like
>Cinderella, Winger
> and Extreme, they attempt to show they have cajones on the single
Well, at least he has enough IQ to identify three more bands "closely
related" (*cough!*) to metal. Unbeknowest to the writer, he was
cryogenically set in a capsule (c. 1988-89) and thawed out just in time to
write this review. The result: an 80s mentality living in a 90s reality.
Hey, that would be a great title for a song, wouldn't it?! :)
> "Burning My Soul" but still fall flat despite the presence of a few
>(comparatively)
> beefy riffs. This is mainly due to overproduction that would render
>a Slayer song
> flaccid and bland lead singer, John Petrucci, who spends too much
>time in the
> high-end range. Any lyricist who is not in, say, high school knows
What?!?! You mean I've been fooled all this time thinking JLB was singing
when actually, JP is a superb vocalist AND ventriloquist?!?!! This must be
the best lip-synching job since them ol' Milli Vanilli days ;)
>to avoid
> cliches such as rhyming "pain" and "rain," but Petrucci manages to
>use it in a
> chorus, no less!
>
Remember, Foybean -- you're still in the 80s! You're actually reviewing
Dream Academy, not Dream Theater!
> When I was in the 10th grade my class was shown an anti-drug
>film about
> some guy who was administered lots of PCP in order to coerce him
>into killing someone.
> Perhaps they should update that film to include the music of Dream
>Theater, because
> I don't beelieve "Falling Into Infinity" can be experienced in its
>entirety without
> compelling the listener to throttle the nearest sibling or house
>pet."-Mitchell Foy
>
>
<to clueless journalist wanna-be>
If your journalism experience stemmed straight out of high school, then tell
me this: How much of your own lunch money did you use to bribe the
newspaper editor into printing your reviews? You apparently bought a couple
professors off to pass the curriculum. My advice for you is to devote any
future music reviews to the bubble-pop category of Spice Girls and Hanson.
The only problem is you would get both groups mixed up!!!
(boom-ba-da-bumphhh!!!!) ***
*** MP on rimshot!!! :)
Now whether you respond to him or not personally on this matter, that's fine
-- I surely will! Do it in a constructive, tactful manner though! How we
respond to this "writer" between ourselves is purely confidential and in
good fun! Let's not wreck his upcoming work week with hate mail, shall we?
He needs to focus on his Monday interview with boyhood idol band New Kids On
The Block. [remember, still in the 80s?]
Take the time,
Brian
PS This is a fine example of constructive "counter-criticism" :)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 04:51:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: JE78674@ltu.edu
To: YTSEJAM@ax.com
Subject: A +LIVE+ comment
Message-ID: <01IQLWEY2B3M8WZ1YP@LTU.EDU>
Hello all,
I've been listening to my +LIVE+ CD's the last couple of days and have
noticed something. Before I proceed, I consider the EP Four Songs to be
a part of Mental Jewelry. Anyway, I never did purchase the latest
release because what I heard on the radio just didn't sound like +LIVE+
to me...kind of commercial? I dunno...anyhow, this reflects Mental
Jewelry to Throwing Copper.
I feel that their first work has got to be some of the most emotionally
influenced and driven music I have in my collection. You just get this
(well I do) overwhelming feeling that the band's emotions were poured
into every track. On the Throwing Copper album, that feeling isn't
really there. I do indeed enjoy Throwing Copper, especially when
it gets to Pillar of Davidson and White, Discussion. However, their
emotions are present in the album entirety when it comes to MJ.
Just my observation..anyone else agree?
But here is the question...does +LIVE+ not believe in God and do or were
they neo-nazi people? I'm making this observation off of their lyrics to
2 particular songs (Operation Spirit and Top). I know their lyrics are
pretty much impossible to understand, but what they say sticks out.
In OS, he says, "Heard a lot of talk about this Jesus
a man of love and a man of strength
but what a man was 2000 years ago
means nothing at all to me today
He could have been telling me about my higher-self
but He only lives inside my prayers
So what he was may have been beautiful
But the pain is right now and right here."
In Top, "Oh Hitler in a robe of truth
my emptyness has built your alter
and I worshipped myself in you forever
until now"
So, I think it's clear to see where my suspicions come from. If anyone
has researched this same thing, please e-mail me.
*DISCLAIMER* I do not support the two views I have places for
speculation. I merely want to know the truth behind
+LIVE+'s convictions. I meant to say PLACED where it
says PLACES above, sorry.
Take care,
Jeff E.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 09:05:55 -0500
From: anitya@juno.com (Bracken N MacLeod)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Fixed?
Message-ID: <19971130.090601.9230.0.anitya@juno.com>
I haven't been able to post to the 'Jam for well over a month now. Am I
getting through?
Incidentally, I was at school (Quinnipiac College) the other day
(actually, I'm a law student there *every* day but just happened to
notice THIS the other day), and noticed a white car (don't ask me more
about this, I'm not a car guy) with black tinted windows. In the parking
lot. "So what!" you might say. Well, in the center of the back window
was a huge Majesty logo, and the front license plate read: "Metropolis --
the Miracle and the Sleeper." I'm wondering if there's another 'Jammer
at QCSL. Is there? Hmmm?
Slainte,
Bracken
It's always darkest just before I open my eyes.
----------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 13:20:52 -0200 (EDT)
From: Daniel Vasconcelos Gomes <danielvg@sel.eesc.sc.usp.br>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: what "Mitchell Foy" really wants...
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.971130130537.2620D-100000@POCAHONTAS>
hello all,
1)
<<The result is its best album, a mix of astounding virtuosity and leaner
songs and arrangements. >>
<<This is from the January 1998 issue of Guitar For The Practicing Musician>>
2)
<<"Falling Into Infinity" is full of pomposity that attempts to
manipulate the listener with overblown dynamics and cheesy dramatics.
any given song, one is reminded of slews of yesteryear's bands - none
of which are any good. In the first song alone, Guns'n Roses,
Asia and latter-day Rush are prominent. It is impossible to say just what
Dream(...)>>>
hello all,
As you can see reading 1) and 2) there is a big difference between
a 'good' critic and a 'bad' critic.
The first, tries to hear and understand the album to find out its
qualities and its defects. No matter if the writer likes or not
what its being written.
Second example its just a fuckin bastard with big problems in live
trying to get some attention, using DT fans. He does not want to
do something interesting to be read, he wants only to threat.
I my self added this fucker into my list of the "Biggest assholes
I ever saw". But if we all email him, we'd be only doing what he wants.
Paul just wrote all that should be emailed to this asshole,
he wrote all i'd like to write to this bastard.
In Brazil musical press its even worst than american, coz 90 %
of the people who writes about music fits on the 2nd example,
and 98 % hates prog rock and 99% never played any instrument.
that's all for now,
Daniel V.Gomes
(Aragorn)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 97 15:59:28 -0000
From: Tim Spear <veilmaya@dircon.co.uk>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: London Gig and Gordian Knot/Sean Malone
Message-ID: <199711301559.PAA22622@mailhost.dircon.co.uk>
> well I have my tickets for the London date.
> Not knowing London well could someone point me in the direction of
> the Forum. Nearest underground station and the decent local pubs
> would be useful.
nearest tube is Kentish town, on the northern line... beware tho,cos the
northern line splits at camdem so make sure you get the right bit of it...
best pub is the Bull & Gate which is slap-bang next door to the Forum,
you cant miss it...turn up, get pissed and go shout "PLAY STATUS SEEKER!"
at James LaBrie for a guaranteed reaction ;-)
Ill be there with a few other geezers, prob wearing my 'jam shirt, but
I'm aiming to turn up just b4 DT go on cos i dont want to run into my
ex-gfriend :-(
couple of other things... there was a post here about Sean Malone and
Gordian Knot..That CD is being written as we speak and should be out next
year. Ive just finished Sean's personal site which goes alongside
AHAMKARA - The official Cynic Site, the former of which is at
http://home1.gte.net/fugue/ and the latter should be in my sig...Sean's
site will have all the info on the Gordian Knot cd, including a session
journal which he keeps on the progress of the project (the first part of
which Im going to mark-up soon)...
Tim Spear
Veilmaya - http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~veilmaya/
Ahamkara - the official Cynic Website -
http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~veilmaya/cynic/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 11:51:40 -0500
From: VAIMAN <vaiman@mindspring.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Re Bad review
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19971130165140.006ab9dc@pop.mindspring.com>
>Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 11:45:46 -0500
>Subject: Re: Re Bad review
>
>At 02:54 PM 11/30/97 +0100, Neil Gallop wrote:
>>I don't see why you are getting so pissed off because some guy who
>>clearly doesn't like Dream Theater writes a bad review.
I just found the review interesting. I don't feel it was a very
fair review. It was almost like he didn't even give it a listen
or chance. He had his mind made up before the review. The guy has his opinion
and I am all for that.
> Perhaps you
>>wanted to let off a bit of steam on the jam, but did you really have to
>>send the thing THREE times?
>>
>>Neil Gallop
That was a mistake. Sorry. :) I was meaning to send it four times.
(hahaha..just kidding!)
Take care,
Todd S
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 11:45:51 -0600 (CST)
From: Christopher Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: A +LIVE+ comment
Message-ID: <199711301745.LAA26049@enteract.com>
Are we just all through paying attention to what the subscription
letter says, or what? Religion and alternative music? I hope this plague
isn't going to spread.
- Chris
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 13:03:53 -0500
From: Adam <alpineone@mindspring.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Mitchell Foy review comments
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19971130130353.00799960@mindspring.com>
Hey folks...
If y'all are planning to write to Mitchell Foy about his review, PLEASE try
to make the letter intelligent and mature. People have posted their
replies to him on the Jam and some of them are, very honestly, quite
unflattering to the DT worshipping community. There's no need to call Foy
names like "pussy" and "dillhole" (?!?). These kinds of comments make the
email writer and the DT group as a whole look like a bunch of foolish,
stupid 15 year olds. There's enough blatant stupidity in Foy's article to
analyze and disagree with it without having to resort to immature tactics
such as name-calling. And besides, a person who calmly analyzes an article
and can point out it's faults is SOOOOOOO much more effective than some
fool going "you don't like DT? Fuck you, you pussy!" Take care...
Adam
http://www.mindspring.com/~alpineone
- Above URL for bootlist w/ setlists
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 13:16:37 -0500
From: Pat Sullivan <psull@ici.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: re: complexity
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19971130131551.00698b0c@mail.ici.net>
>On the topic of complexity, I think another thing is important to
>consider. DT is not playing with a score or conductor, yet their
>arangements and counterpoint are tight. No, it's not as complex as
>sclassical music when talking about layers and such, though I think they
>could do maybe a tiny bit more that way.
I'm of two minds here. On one hand, I agree that listening to the
arrangements they play on their recordings is great. It's neat to listen
closely and hear some of the stuff they add that's way in the background,
stuff that adds texture to the music. Very few "rock" bands take the time
to do that.
Classical music has those parts as well, but they are written with the
knowledge that a full orchestra is required to perform the piece
(generally). There's virtually no way DT can duplicate those studio
intricacies. When you have 8-10 musical "layers", and only 4 musical
instruments, sacrifices have to be made in the live environment. Maybe it's
just me, but sometime I'd like to see DT performing with backup musicians
so that *all* the parts that are on the recordings are actually performed.
-----
_____Pat Sullivan_____________________________________
E-Mail: psull@ici.net
WWW: http://www.ici.net/cust_pages/psull/psull.html
IRC: DDictator ICQ: 2049374
______________________________________________________
It's not hard to meet expenses, they're everywhere.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 12:26:46 -0600 (CST)
From: Christopher Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
To: madmen@atlanta.com
Cc: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Mitchell Foy
Message-ID: <199711301826.MAA02478@enteract.com>
Greetings, Poets, Artists, and Madmen.
I was recently delivered a copy of a review from your fine, fine
publication. The topic was Dream Theater, and the (I use the term loosly)
writer was Mitchell Foy. Let me tell you, I have not laughed like that
in some time! It never fails to amuse me to see how someone so
ill-informed can attempt to review an album. It reminds me, in fact, of
a high school student trying to bullshit his way through a report on a
book he never read. Understand, of course, that I take no objection to
his opinions or even the tactless manner in which his review was composed
(we all grow up sooner or later...) but I do think that from the
perspective of your publication, it would be in your best interest to
request that your reviewers actually take the time to "listen" to the
lbums their reviewing. I would think that a publication based on "Poets,
Artists, and Madmen" would have some respect for Art, or at least Artists.
Clearly when someone mistakes the guitarist for the vocalist, that
person has not put a great deal of effort into his or her work. I
understand that poor Mitchell has some inferiority complex, and just can't
handle people who don't "fit into his crowd" but while seeking attention
may be useful to your publication, I don't think this is the kind of
attention you're looking for. This person had an agenda before the cd
ever made its way into his vile cd player.
It's one thing to be biased upon being delivered a new album to
review. Surely, if you were to pass the newest "Jewel" album off on me,
I would not write the most stunning review. However, I think the line is
crossed when the reviewer makes it personal, insulting the people making the
music, and not just criticizing the parts of the music that he or she
finds distasteful. That, as any debater will tell you, is not only
flawed logic, but also extremely immature.
Perhaps, not being a reader of your publication (with this
exception,) your goal is to provide literary and artistic criticism for
the 12-17 year old age group, while offering an excellent source of
kindling for those less "Mentally Numb" in these colder months. If so,
congratulations! If not, I would hope that you're making some attempt to
put out a quality independent paper that doesn't have to abide by the
company's higher agendas. Should that be the case, then I recommend that
you reconsider your policies on accepting submissions.
Best wishes, and happy holidays,
- Chris Ptacek
Prognosis, L.L.P.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 14:09:53 -0800
From: Mike Cullen <secrets@i1.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Re Bad review
Message-ID: <3481E431.5F36@i1.net>
Bad reviews are a dime a dozen. What pissed me off is the fact the guy
had no idea what he was talking about! If he had taken the time to
listen to the music it would have been a different story.
The jerk doesnt deserve to be a music critic.
Mike
VAIMAN wrote:
>
> >Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 11:45:46 -0500
> >Subject: Re: Re Bad review
> >
> >At 02:54 PM 11/30/97 +0100, Neil Gallop wrote:
> >>I don't see why you are getting so pissed off because some guy who
> >>clearly doesn't like Dream Theater writes a bad review.
>
> I just found the review interesting. I don't feel it was a very
> fair review. It was almost like he didn't even give it a listen
> or chance. He had his mind made up before the review. The guy has his opinion
> and I am all for that.
>
> > Perhaps you
> >>wanted to let off a bit of steam on the jam, but did you really have to
> >>send the thing THREE times?
> >>
> >>Neil Gallop
>
> That was a mistake. Sorry. :) I was meaning to send it four times.
> (hahaha..just kidding!)
>
> Take care,
>
> Todd S
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 3302
**************************
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