YTSEJAM Digest 4939
Today's Topics:
1) Re: Genesis prog? YES!
by Syrinx <syrinx@erotomania.org>
2) Re: Mojoman, it's getting old
by Frank Benenati <fmb@frontierlogic.com>
3) Vanden Plas
by John Parks <jpyyz@yahoo.com>
4) Re: Vanden Plas
by drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
5) lyrics lyrics lyrics
by bplumb@pi-r-squared.com
6) Re: planet x
by bplumb@pi-r-squared.com
7)
by J C <outlander28@hotmail.com>
8) Off to see Sevendust!
by Kurt Hampton <eernewe1@gnofn.org>
9) Re: YTSEJAM digest 4938
by CHAZRUSHAM@aol.com
10) How is Genesis Prog???
by YtseJamJMB@aol.com
11) Re: some good Christian bands
by Dale R Newberry <schnapster@juno.com>
12) Classic prog-rock bands...
by Steve Chew <schew@tislabs.com>
13) Symphony X
by DWilk46577@aol.com
14) Re: YTSEJAM digest 4938
by DrummerEsh@aol.com
15) Live Bonus Tracks
by "Charlie Farrell" <Charlie_Farrell@email.msn.com>
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Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:10:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Syrinx <syrinx@erotomania.org>
To: Eric Trautmann <etrautmann@cds-net.com>
Subject: Re: Genesis prog? YES!
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.05.9906241558320.25631-100000@tempest.ocis.temple.edu>
> The recent postings on older prog groups like Genesis and Yes have peaked my
> interest.
>
> My background mainly consists of listening to metal, but I'm starting to
> really appreciate some older prog rock music. I'd love to know two or three
> albums that some of you guys/gals consider to be the cornerstones of
> progressive rock. I'm thinking along the lines of Genesis, Yes, ELP, King
> Crimson, etc., but all opinions are welcome.
Before I give you some sort of list (at least by what I'm into),
keep in mind that it's VERY open to interpatation - which will probably be
iin debate for years (depending on who you talk to). There are, however,
some albums that every prog fan needs to have, and here's just a few you
might wanna get if you want to understand "what the fuss is all about":
1. King Crimson - In The Court Of The Crimson King
The first KC album, and one of the greatest progressive albums of
all time. Released in 1969, it's inspired Neil Peart to become a drummer
and Bad Religion to have a label named afer a KC song (Epitaph) and a song
of their own (21st Century Digital Boy). It features Greg Lake on bass
and vocals, btw. Tracks to love: 21st Century Schizoid Man, Epitaph, In
The Court Of The Crimson King.
2. Genesis - Foxtrot
Released in 1972, this is the 2nd album with Phil Collins on drums
and Steve Hackett on guitar. If Super's Ready alone doesn't make you
rush out and buy it, Watcher Of The Skies will. Truly a progressive
classic.
3. King Crimson - Red
Released in 1974, this album was the last album of the 1st section
of King Crimson (don't ask). This album just has 3 people on it - but
it's Robert Fripp, Bill Bruford and John Wetton. If you like Anekdoten,
they started out as a KC tribute band - playing songs from Red. Tracks to
love: Red, One More Red Nightmare, Starless.
4. ELP: Brain Salad Surgery
Released in 1973, this was ELP's (as far as I'm concearned) last
great studio album. This album has everything - a 9 minute classsical
adaption, a 2 minute jig, and a 30 minute opus. What else do you need? :)
Tracks to dig: Tocatta, Still...You Turn Me On, Karn Evil 9.
5. Yes: Fragile
Released in 1972, this album is Rick Wakeman's first album with
the band. The album features little pieces by each of the band members as
well as tracks by the full band - Roundabout included. Tracks to
dig: Roundabout, Heart Of The Sunrise, South Side Of The Sky.
That should get you started for a while.
- mike.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
erotomania! - http://www.erotomania.org
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:19:41 -0400
From: Frank Benenati <fmb@frontierlogic.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net, Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu>
Subject: Re: Mojoman, it's getting old
Message-ID: <377292DD.20A19E4F@frontierlogic.com>
Andrew Coutermarsh wrote:
>
> > Lots of garbage snipped out for space reasons <
>
> Okay, Mojo, I have to say that what you're writing is really bothering me.
Did you even read the email that Skadz sent out? He was very clear that
he wanted the subject to die....no exceptions from nobody!
I respected his wishes and stopped posting my complaints to the jam.
Leave the subject alone...ok?
-mojo
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 13:48:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Parks <jpyyz@yahoo.com>
To: ytsejam dream theater <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Vanden Plas
Message-ID: <19990624204842.7828.rocketmail@send205.yahoomail.com>
I just downloaded the single off of the Vanden Plas website
and man it sounds killer. So whats the deal on how they
are goin to distribute the new cd in the U.S.? So much
cool music coming out this fall I can tell I will be going
into severe debt. But who cares at least I'll have cool
music :)
later
===
John Parks
jpyyz@yahoo.com
Only two things are infinite,
the universe and human stupidity,
and I'm not sure about the former. -Albert Einstein-
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 14:02:47 -0700
From: drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: Vanden Plas
Message-ID: <199906242102.OAA02886@gms.gmsnet.com>
Before being sacrificed upon the altar..., John Parks thus begged:
>
>I just downloaded the single off of the Vanden Plas website
>and man it sounds killer. So whats the deal on how they
>are goin to distribute the new cd in the U.S.? So much
HAHAHAHAH, distribute in the US?? Better check your mail order
places and internet places.
-The Doc
-- *#&*@#@*(#@#*@(#!@*#(!@#(&!#(@!*#@((#@$(#@(($@#($(#@$@#($@#(*$@(*$*(#(#(##(#(# computersarefasterthanhumans - devastatetoinnovate - hyperspacialparallelcomp\ drkhoe@gmsnet.com = http://progmetal.gmsnet.com = internetcyberwetwaregamedev+ s*o#o$n@@c*o!m^e)s@@t>h<e@@|d~i+g-i%t%a.l@@<M><E><S><S><I><A><H> gaMECoReTeKN0------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:04:35 -0500 From: bplumb@pi-r-squared.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: lyrics lyrics lyrics Message-ID: <2.2.32.19990624210435.012bb0c4@pi-r-squared.com>
>Finally, I got the Chroma Key CD dead air for radios and I love >it. I love how KevMo uses samples. There's only one thing that >bothers me and that is the lyrics. I know Mr Moore can write >some amazing lyrics, but the ones in Chroma Key just sound >too... teenagerish. I don't know, they kind of seem a bit awkward >and cliched. > Oh well, I still love the album. Cliche?! I find the lyrics to be anything but... cliche I suppose is anything confined to rhyme, Kev's lyrics lack any form of structure and he has admitted that he often just starts singing random nonsense and that ends up in the songs. However, I think the lyrics make a lot of sense and are great. This is something I've been wondering Jammers, everytime someone posts about an album, they mention cheesy lyrics, and it's ALWAYS a different style. What does everyone find cheesy and what does everyone find good? Personally I think the death & desolation lyrics of death and black metal are cheesy as hell, whereas the contemplating lyrics of Chroma Key, and the therapeutic lyrics of DT I find great. What does everyone think, cuz this is something I've been very curious about lately.
Palpatine "Thank God I'm an aetheist" -Luis Bunel "What an incredible smell you've discovered" -Han Solo, Star Wars: A New Hope "Perhaps god gave the answers to those with nothing to say"- Savatage: Somewhere in time "So You're saying that in your scientific opinion, Bess McNeil died from an overdose of... being good..?" -Breaking the Waves
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:10:11 -0500 From: bplumb@pi-r-squared.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: planet x Message-ID: <2.2.32.19990624211011.012b5f30@pi-r-squared.com>
At 08:19 AM 6/24/99 -0700, you wrote: > > >> we just did our final rehearsal yesterday, and all that i >> can say, is that not >> only is this band more technical that DT, but it has way >hollywood!! >> >> thanks derek > >> more soul, fire. and >> no rectum puckering vocals!!!! >> >> come witness the spectacle!! thur nite Baked Potato
It did not occur to me that these comments were from Derek until now, that does indeed seem like a slap in the face to his former band mates. Maybe something is up after all... it's probly just brewed over time.
Palpatine "Thank God I'm an aetheist" -Luis Bunel "What an incredible smell you've discovered" -Han Solo, Star Wars: A New Hope "Perhaps god gave the answers to those with nothing to say"- Savatage: Somewhere in time "So You're saying that in your scientific opinion, Bess McNeil died from an overdose of... being good..?" -Breaking the Waves
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 17:29:39 EDT From: J C <outlander28@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Message-ID: <19990624212939.72760.qmail@hotmail.com>
Mr. LuPone said: as for DT content in this post... "Preach the Word when you're supposed to"
The above has got to be the most fitting DT lyrics reference I have ever seen! VIVA OBSCURE!
_______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:30:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Kurt Hampton <eernewe1@gnofn.org> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Off to see Sevendust! Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.990624162848.10912A-100000@sparkie.gnofn.org>
Bye all, I'm off in a few to go see Sevendust. For those not familiar with them, tehy are probably the best NEW metal band to come around in a while (ie Korn, etc) these guys actually have talent :)
Kurt Np:OIALT- Take the Time :)
******~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~****** @----'--,--- ******~~~~~~~~~~~~~~****** "I remember Now" "Rodney King, what the hell is that supposed to mean? He's that guy." Airheads ************************************************************************
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Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 18:04:41 EDT From: CHAZRUSHAM@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4938 Message-ID: <4f6c4c4a.24a40579@aol.com>
In a message dated 6/24/99 4:08:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ytsejam@ax.com writes:
<< > we just did our final rehearsal yesterday, and all that i > can say, is that not > only is this band more technical that DT, but it has way hollywood!! > > thanks derek > more soul, fire. and > no rectum puckering vocals!!!! > > come witness the spectacle!! thur nite Baked Potato Me wonders if Derek is still a little bit upset from getting released from DT. I am also starting to wonder just how full of himself he really is. Oh well, if its good music he's putting out then i guess its ok, I just always seem to notice that his personality is just a bit haughty. Do you think he's heard LTE2 yet? later >> Derek had made a comment to me that Jordan gave him a copy of Lte2 and that Jordans playing belongs in a conservatory, not on a rock stage and to some extent i agree but I love his playing in LTE and cant wait for new DT. Derek also said that he was not ashamed of wanting to be rich or wanting fame and I definitely do think he is a little full of himself if you ask me.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 18:19:56 EDT From: YtseJamJMB@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: How is Genesis Prog??? Message-ID: <971ecd5.24a4090c@aol.com>
I was just wondering why you guys consider Genesis prog. I have one of their CDs "Invisible Touch" and there was no prog feeling to it. Is that CD just not as prog as there others or what?
Later
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 17:45:29 -0500 From: Dale R Newberry <schnapster@juno.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: some good Christian bands Message-ID: <19990624.174535.3302.1.schnapster@juno.com>
I must agree with Vince's post/list of some good Christian bands. To answer your question, no Deliverance broke up a few years ago after the release of their "Camelot in Smithereens" album (which is pretty good, BTW, but Learn is probably my favourite). Saviour Machine is most definitely in the goth/symphonic/theatrical style. Great, passionate lyrics that tend (to put it lightly) toward a more apocalyptic approach. Living Sacrifice's Reborn is very reminiscent (IMO) to Sepultura. Their earlier albums are a bit more death metal in style. In fact, an interesting note, LS recently released their debut, self-titled album (which reminds me a bit of a garage version of Slayer), and will be rereleasing their other two albums (Nonexistent, which is very much in the death metal vein, and Inhabit, which is a bit more brutal and just flat out HEAVY as stink) later this summer. Another band I forgot to mention that is definitely worthy of checking out is Believer. Very progressive, technical thrash with growl/shout vocals. I recommend Dimensions for starters (they also use a lot of orchestra and classical influences). Veni Domine is pretty good, too. Haven't listened to them in a little while, so I can't say as much about them at the moment. Oh, and a small bit of DTC, Klank thanks MP (I think. I'll have to double check my CD to make sure) in the liner notes of the album Still Suffering, and has a link to the official DT web site on his site. And also, to sort of answer another of Vince's questions, Galactic Cowboys are sort of Christian. The members of the band are Christians, but I wouldn't call them a "Christian band" since they are certainly marketed more toward the mainstream market, and rarely do Christian shows (though they are playing the Cornerstone festival next week, right after Klank plays :). Again, anyone interested in hearing any of these abnds or others that are good, let me know and I'll see what I can do (I'm all about sharing some killer music).
Dale R. Newberry
___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
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Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 19:32:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Steve Chew <schew@tislabs.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Cc: etrautmann@cds-net.com Subject: Classic prog-rock bands... Message-ID: <199906242332.TAA27797@clipper.gw.tislabs.com>
> >> Someone raised the question about whether Genesis was prog or not. >> Listen to early Genesis . . . maybe even mid-Genesis. > >The recent postings on older prog groups like Genesis and Yes have peaked my >interest. > Glad to hear it. There's a lot of great stuff to be found. You mentioned that you're starting to like some older prog music -- which bands?
>My background mainly consists of listening to metal, but I'm starting to >really appreciate some older prog rock music. I'd love to know two or three >albums that some of you guys/gals consider to be the cornerstones of >progressive rock. I'm thinking along the lines of Genesis, Yes, ELP, King >Crimson, etc., but all opinions are welcome. >
You'll get a different answer from everyone you talk to, but here's my take on the "classic" progressive rock bands. I'd say there are seven "cornerstone" prog bands from the '70s and I've listed what I'd recommend as a starting CD and follow-up CDs for each of them:
Band Start with Album Follow Up with Albums ---- ---------------- --------------------- Yes Classic Yes Fragile, Close to the Edge, Relayer, The Yes Album, 90125
Genesis Selling England by Foxtrot, the Pound Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, Trick of the Tail
ELP Brain Salad Surgery Trilogy, Tarkus
Jethro Tull Aqualung Thick as a Brick, Minstrel in the Gallery, A Passion Play,
King Crimson Discipline Red, Thrak
Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon Animals, Wish You Were Here The Wall
Rush Moving Pictures Hemispheres, 2112
There are of course many, many other older prog bands worth mentioning -- I had a hard time only choosing 7 -- but I think the above bands set the standard. They made the initial inroads on what prog-rock was all about and influenced much of what came after. They're the albums that you'll find in most prog fan's collections. It's interesting to note that all of those bands have released new material in the past few years, though arguably not up to their earlier standards. It was a fertile time for prog-rock. Here's a brief paragraph to give you an idea of what each band is like:
Yes -- Complex music with great dynamics and vocals. Both guitar and keyboards are prominent and the bass playing is amazing. They have a kind of classical feel to them. I chose "Classic Yes", which is a collection of their songs, to start with because I think it has a good, representative selection of their work. "Fragile" and "Close to the Edge" are wonderful. "Relayer" is more experimental. For their eighties style, try 90125.
Genesis -- They build a strong atmosphere and what seems simple turns out to be quite complex. Guitar and keyboards work together along with superb vocals. "Selling England..." is probably the most representative of the Peter Gabriel-era albums.
ELP (Emerson, Lake and Palmer) -- These guys were the first to go all out with the keyboards. They have a classical style and even "cover" some classical pieces. They have a somewhat experimental sound. "Brain Salad Surgery" is their classic album, with the epic "Karn Evil 9".
Jethro Tull -- Tull is less classically oriented with more influences from rock and blues. They can rock with tunes like "Aqualung" or "Cold Wind to Valhalla" and they can be quite proggy, like in "Thick as a Brick", with lots of dynamics. Ian Anderson's strong vocals are phenomenal, as is Martin Barre's guitar work. "Aqualung" is not all that proggy, but it's a strong album and is accessible. "Minstrel in the Gallery" combines many of their rock elements with prog complexity. "A Passion Play" is probably their most progressive album, but is harder to get into.
King Crimson -- These guys set the standard for experimental progressive rock. Their music isn't necessarily that melodic which makes it hard to get into. They can be atmospheric and then very aggressive with their music. The vocals aren't as important as for most of the other bands in this list. Robert Fripp is the foundation of the band, and Tony Levin (see LTE) has been their bass player for a while. They have four distinct phases so it's hard to choose any single album to start with. I personally like Discipline the best, so I chose that one. "Thrak" is somewhat reminiscent of LTE (often very aggressive), but more experimental. "Red" is a good example of their second phase.
Pink Floyd -- Most of you are probably familiar with these guys. They set the standard for the more atmospheric style of prog-rock. They didn't leave behind making great songs though. "Animals" is probably one of their most progressive albums, with long instrumental sections that build a lot of power. The vocals are superb, blending well with the music and lifting it beyond being just atmospheric.
Rush -- Another band that most everyone probably already knows. These guys were among the first to take the heavier rock and make complex music out of it. Along with the earlier hard-rock bands, I feel these guys set the stage for prog-metal. They made some epic songs (like 2112) while also maintaining great melodies and strong music. Again the vocals fit very well with the music. They're probably the closest in style to DT of the bands listed. "Moving Pictures" is representative of both their strong song writing and their prog elements. For the more prog-oriented, try Hemispheres or 2112.
One thing to keep in mind when trying out these bands is that they're not DT. They aren't generally as heavy or as modern sounding. Also, while these are among my favorite bands, you probably won't like them all -- I'm not as much into King Crimson for example. It will probably take some time to appreciate their styles, but it's worth the effort. Every once in a while I wish that I could be just discovering these bands again. It's great fun... Enjoy!
Steve
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Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 20:28:32 EDT From: DWilk46577@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Symphony X Message-ID: <b0c407d0.24a42730@aol.com>
In a message dated 6/23/99 11:52:39 PM US Mountain Standard Time, ytsejam@ax.com writes:
<< maybe the songs were from their first album. Now I love Symphony X. i have divine wings, but then i got twilight in olympus, and i realized that all of their songs sound the same. which isn't a bad thing, cuz all their songs are great. and they find different ways to make each song sound different, thus you don't notice that they've used the same riff in 5 other songs. if you don't get into heavy guitar stuff, you probably won't like them, but download a few songs from the divine wings of tragedy if you havent already, it's just too good to pass up. i don't think i've ever heard anyone say that Divine wings of tragedy was their 2nd best album. >>
I've always wanted to hear Symphony X, but where...? Where is a good site on the net where I can hear some of their music?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 21:01:24 EDT From: DrummerEsh@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4938 Message-ID: <8523465b.24a42ee4@aol.com>
In a message dated 6/24/99 1:08:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ytsejam@ax.com writes:
<< I know of a bunch of heavy religious bands. my personal favorite is living sacrifice. it's really heavy stuff. like death metal/hardcore and they have tons of odd time signiture stuff thrown in and all their stuff sounds really brutal but it's all about god and that kinda stuff. >>
Religiouse music has to be clean becuase theres a specific message thats coming across, and theat message is ment to be understood, not like lets say a Dream Theater song where we can discuss what the song is meaning to say. In hardcore/Death metal you cant understand what the guy is singing so therefore the messaage hasnt been sent across.
-Esh www.phosphenes.com
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Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 04:23:52 -0000 From: "Charlie Farrell" <Charlie_Farrell@email.msn.com> To: "Ytsejam list" <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Live Bonus Tracks Message-ID: <017a01bebdf9$5fa667c0$f94895c1@pentium1>
>I acquired a DT promo CD called "Live Bonus Tracks." It has >four songs: "Caught In Alice's 9-Inch Tool Garden," "Take Away >My Pain," "Burning My Soul," and "Another Hand/The Killing Hand," >all recorded at Birch Hell during the Fix for '96 mini tour. Some of the >words on the case are in French. Does anyone (Steffen?) know >anything about the origin of this disc? Many thanks in advance to >whomever can help
This disk was made available in limited numbers in France last year (around March-April time), while DT were on tour. Basically anyone who purchased 2 DT CD's was entitled to a copy of this CD (while stocks were available). - all the same a bit of a pain if you already have all of the CDs :-))
I don't know exactly how many were made available. I have a copy, but I won it in a competition through the 'Your Majesty' fanzine.
The versions of "Burning My Soul," and "Another Hand/The Killing Hand" (The Metzger-approved version) also appear on the Japanese 'Hollow Years' single, but the other tracks are not otherwise available, on an official release, as far as I know.
Charlie
N.B. I think the 'Steffen' (The Mirror) you would thinking of, could help out with questions on issues in German, while 'Stephane' would be better for France-related questions.
You can contact the French fanzine, via their website at http://www.multimania.com/yourmajesty/
URL: http://www.servemode.co.uk/Charlie
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 4939 **************************
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