YTSEJAM Digest 5652
Today's Topics:
1) re: Napster
by Michael Kizer <mike@ivorygate.com>
2) Linkin Park
by LaxBoy329@aol.com
3) four?
by Joshua Rasiel <Josh@On-LineDesign.Com>
4) Napster
by Totikus <totikus@gmx.net>
5) Re: four? / Killer US metaltour (In Flames, Nevermore, more)
by WB Henderson <wbhender@cs.millersville.edu>
6) Re: four?
by "HJ Rivera" <hrivera@crp.org>
7) Re: four?
by Brian D Hayden <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu>
8) King Crimson-NonDTRC
by IAmClay777@aol.com
9) EVENT /RI Jammers
by Dave <sirdave@concentric.net>
10) NAPSTERRRRR
by "mikel@alphalink.com.au" <mikel@alphalink.com.au>
11) All Symphony X fans, READ THIS!!!
by "Matt Molite" <ytsejam11@dreamtheater.zzn.com>
12) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5651
by DoubleJay54@aol.com
13) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5651
by "Carlos A. Alfaro" <calfaro@yunque.net>
14) Jens & Napster
by "Al @ Switchcraft" <al@isd.net>
15) Re: All Symphony X fans, READ THIS!!!
by Eckie <eckie@imap1.asu.edu>
16) Re: All Symphony X fans, READ THIS!!!
by Rick Audet <spine@optical.mindstorm.com>
17) Re: NAPSTERJAM digest 5651
by Kurt M Hampton <kurt.hampton@juno.com>
18) Re: Napster
by "Jarno Tuomainen" <jarno_tuomainen@hotmail.com>
19) Napster (between the devil and the deep blue sea)
by David Cuthbert <d_cuthbert@lineone.net>
20) Re: i bear napster's children
by "Paul Tadday" <dreamryche@bigpond.com>
21) RE: NAPSTERJAM
by "Souter, Jan-Michael" <JSouter@healthaxis.com>
22) Re: Napster inc of puppets
by Andreas Schaefer <jerry@muc.de>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 09:05:11 -0700
From: Michael Kizer <mike@ivorygate.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: re: Napster
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001025085558.026aaa30@mail.phoenixdsl.com>
At 07:39 AM 10/25/00 -0700, you wrote:
>3) Does anyone else find it strange that Metallica had the whole S&M
>project available for listening on the web before it came out in stores,
>THEN they gripe about Napster? Is the issue as simple as: "If it's on
>the web, WE want to be the ones that put it there?"
Um, isn't this exactly the point? If band X doesn't want any of
their music released for free over the internet that should be their
choice. If band Y wants to release everything for free they should be
allowed to. The point is, this choice should be the artist's and no one
elses. I am all for putting complete control of the artistic process into
hands of the artist, which is exactly why the artists have to be the ones
in control of releasing songs to the internet not some one off the street
who just rips the CD into MP3s and makes it available to the world.
~Michael Kizer < mike@ivorygate.com > < ICQ # 2070538 >
"Enter ivory gates through midnight skies..." ~ http://www.ivorygate.com
>>> Fates Warning ~ Island In The Stream <<<
>>> Dream Theater and Kevin Moore "Unofficial" Song Books <<<
>>> Underground Internet Radio at: http://www.ytseradio.com <<<
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 14:36:47 EDT
From: LaxBoy329@aol.com
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Linkin Park
Message-ID: <4c.bf58c33.2728823f@aol.com>
Any of you guys ever here of a band called linkin park? I know they arent
prog but check out some of there stuff i think they are awesome. But still
Dreamtheater Always
Andrew
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Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:11:47 -0400
From: Joshua Rasiel <Josh@On-LineDesign.Com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: four?
Message-ID: <39F73E82.B2267194@On-LineDesign.Com>
brian, which four media companies?
Viacom, TimeWarner, and...?
-josh
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Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 22:38:46 +0200
From: Totikus <totikus@gmx.net>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Napster
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20001025223846.007e5b80@pop.gmx.net>
>3) Does anyone else find it strange that Metallica had the whole S&M
>project available for listening on the web before it came out in stores,
>THEN they gripe about Napster? Is the issue as simple as: "If it's on
>the web, WE want to be the ones that put it there?"
>
Yes, for them, it is. What Metallica and most big-name acts complain about
is control of their copyrighted material; deciding whether they want their
music on the net. IMO the real issue is about these artists who, for one
reason or another, don't want to see their music being distributed over the
net (in Metallica's case because they're already popular enough). Many prog
acts, on the other hand, either offer whole songs on their site or mp3.com
(Chroma Key, Sun Caged, Eternity X, etc) or support/tolerate some
distribution of their music because they feel any exposure is beneficial to
them.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:40:37 -0400
From: WB Henderson <wbhender@cs.millersville.edu>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: four? / Killer US metaltour (In Flames, Nevermore, more)
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001025163135.00aa5940@cs.millersville.edu>
>brian, which four media companies?
>Viacom, TimeWarner, and...?
Sony? I never got a clear answer on that, actually. The politics of which
company owns which is too much for my brain to handle. Anybody have a real
answer?
In other news, dates were just announced for what promises to be an awesome
US metal tour, perhaps even rivaling some of the ones that sweep
continental western Europe every other day or so...
In Flames w/ Nevermore, Shadows Fall & Burn It Down:
11/20 - REVERB ROOM: Toronto, Canada
11/21 - THE MEDLEY: Montreal, Canada
11/22 - TROCADERO: Philadelphia, PA
11/24 - THE PALLADIUM: Worcester, MA
11/25 - LOST HORIZONS: Syracuse, NY
11/26 - CBGB'S: New York, NY
11/27 - KINGS: Raleigh, NC
11/28 - JAXX: Springfield, VA
11/29 - VALENTINE'S: Albany, NY
11/30 - AGORA BALLROOM: Cleveland, OH
12/01 - I-ROCK: Detroit, MI
12/02 - RILEY'S ROCK HOUSE: Aurora, IL
12/03 - THE LAB: St. Paul, MN
12/04 - BOTTLENECK: Lawrence, KS
12/07 - GRACELAND: Seattle, WA
12/10 - THE KEY CLUB: Los Angeles, CA
12/12 - GLASSHOUSE: Pamona, CA
12/13 - GREEN ROOM: Tempe, AZ
12/18 - MASQUERADE: Atlanta, GA
12/19 - TWISTERS: Richmond, VA
12/20 - THE WRECK ROOM: Wallington, NJ
Brian
[NP...Yngwie J. Malmsteen's Rising Force -- War To End All Wars]
==============================================
WB Henderson [wbhender@cs.millersville.edu]
Automaton Hit Parade (prog-radio): http://ahp.musicpage.com/
Metalmaton Grit Patrol (metal-radio): http://www.wixq.com/metal/MGP/
WIXQ ON-LINE: http://www.wixq.com
WIXQ-METAL: http://www.wixq.com/metal/
==============================================
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:43:07 -0400
From: "HJ Rivera" <hrivera@crp.org>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: four?
Message-ID: <027401c03ec4$2e4a0950$b084c5cf@crp.org>
I'm not Brian, but... Sony and Seagram's, perhaps?
joe
NP: Stage Dolls - s/t
> brian, which four media companies?
>
> Viacom, TimeWarner, and...?
>
> -josh
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 15:57:40 -0500 (CDT)
From: Brian D Hayden <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: four?
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.20.0010251557290.23905-100000@garnet.tc.umn.edu>
Yup.
-Brian
--superhype!
On Wed, 25 Oct 2000, HJ Rivera wrote:
> > I'm not Brian, but... Sony and Seagram's, perhaps? > > joe > NP: Stage Dolls - s/t > > > brian, which four media companies? > > > > Viacom, TimeWarner, and...? > > > > -josh > > > >
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Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:36:37 EDT From: IAmClay777@aol.com To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: King Crimson-NonDTRC Message-ID: <a8.c4af41c.2728ba75@aol.com>
Hey, King Crimson is coming to DC soon, has anybody seen them live? If so, could you post a review or impression of the show? Tickets are expensive ($35) for a cheapass like me and the shows (both of them) are during the week, so I need to decide if it's worth going.
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Date: 10/25/2000 19:32 From: Dave <sirdave@concentric.net> To: undisclosed-recipients:; Subject: EVENT /RI Jammers Message-ID: <200010252329.TAA18949@mcfeely.concentric.net>
--==pw_boundary== Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi everybody,
Any local Ytsejammers planning on checking out EVENT at "The Station" Oct.27th? (except for you Tom ). Go see them if you can (very good)! I'll be wearing my Ytsejam mailing list T-shirt- say hello. I'd like to meet some local prog-metal fans AND musicians. I play drums, maybe there's some people who'd like to jam sometime. See ya,
-Dave
--==pw_boundary==--
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Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 11:58:08 +1000 From: "mikel@alphalink.com.au" <mikel@alphalink.com.au> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: NAPSTERRRRR Message-ID: <39F78FB0.629D717@alphalink.com.au>
Just a few things- I don't see how anyone could justify Napster. Ideally an artist, like any tradesman, should have full control of how he chooses to distribute and sell his work. If he wants to give it away for free, the internet provides lots of good ways of doing this now..However Napster takes away this control and undermines the fundamental copyright laws that protect artists. For example, what if, having never heard the band Phish before, I downloaded 'their' song Gin + Juice off Napster. This is actually another band's country version of a Snoop Dogg song that has been accidentally or deliberately renamed so it looks like a Phish song. Of course Im going to take one listen to it and probably never bother listening to Phish again. (Or I may actually like it and go out and buy a pile of Phish CDs, thus taking money away from the real arist). Whatever the outcome, it is a basic lack of control. Think how that applies to the job that you do, and what such lack of control does to you. What if you were an architect and didn't get payed for designing a building, on the off chance that someone else will admire your work and pay you to design their building. It could be a good marketing stratergy, but it is more likely gonna just screw you over. BTW. While I was on Napster (yes Im guilty), I found this song titled 'Vai, Petrucci and Gilbert improv. jam at the NAMM' which I eagerly downloaded only to discover that it was a mislabeled Blink 182 song. How do you think Vai, Petrucci and Gilbert would feel if their name was being put to such rubbish? I think that those people who feel it is there right to get things for free and not have to pay them need to seriously check their heads. Personally I consider CDs one of the best value luxuries you can get. To think that I for only $20 I can spend an hour, whenever I choose, listening to some of the greatest art ever created. Sure it is unfair that the actual artists only get a small amount of that money, but that is a seperate issue that Napster will in no way solve. Napster is only putting another middle man between the artists and the consumer, and in this case the artist has zero control and gets zero royalties. The person who said they can't sympathise with the RIAA when their profits have improved- well thats just stupid. If the RIAA had found that mp3s helped their sales, why would they want to ban them? More likely the RIAA have done studies and found that Napster and mp3s have had a significant negative impact on their sales. It is plain stupidity and greed to expect something for nothing.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 21:02:19 -0400 From: "Matt Molite" <ytsejam11@dreamtheater.zzn.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: All Symphony X fans, READ THIS!!! Message-ID: <9FF068F34BAA4D11EA010005B88C77AC@ytsejam11.dreamtheater.zzn.com>
To all the X'ers on the ytsejam, I'd like to alert you that some idiot registered the domain names www.symphonyx.com AND www.symphonyx.net, and not only did he create a half assed site, he REFUSES TO GIVE THE ADDRESSES TO SYMPHONY X! He wants Romeo and co. to PAY him to use the site they should rightfully have! So, if you're a Symphony X fan, go to http://www.symphonyx.com, read Guybrush's letter to him, then (if you're as disgusted as I am - and you should be) e-mail this asshole and tell him to hand the sites over! Apparently, he doesn't understand how much more exposure SyX would receive if they had a proper domain name instead of a listen.to site.
Matt
"Seek the hidden rhyme and there you'll find a new world order Feel the mystery - so much to see through the eyes of hope" - Symphony X Dream Theater newsletter - http://www.dreamtheater.net/uacmmail/ ____________________________________________________________ Get your own Web-Based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com
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Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 22:31:21 EDT From: DoubleJay54@aol.com To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5651 Message-ID: <25.c84de59.2728f179@aol.com>
:<< To say that Steve does not like to be mentioned with the project is putting false words into his mouth. Steve had a great time with the Whitesnake project and tour, but again, opted for a solo carreer. Please find me the EXACT pages you found this information on, then I'll shove my foot in my mouth, until then, do NOT state false accuisations on something you know absolutely NOTHING about. >>
I normaly don't like to get in the middle of arguments,but people like this really piss me off. Your bitching at him and rippin his head off saying he's puttin words in SVs mouth and where the fuck did you hear this and i want teh exact pages blah blah, well who the fuck are you tao say this, and wear are you goddamn exact pages asshole. sorry, but i really hate people like this. i don't even know whos right.
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Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 22:42:27 -0400 From: "Carlos A. Alfaro" <calfaro@yunque.net> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5651 Message-ID: <39F79A13.E24771D0@yunque.net>
DoubleJay54@aol.com wrote:
I normaly don't like to get in the middle of arguments,but people like this really piss me off. Your bitching at him and rippin his head off saying he's puttin words in SVs mouth and where the fuck did you hear this and i want teh exact pages blah blah, well who the fuck are you tao say this, and wear are you goddamn exact pages asshole. sorry, but i really hate people like this. i don't even know whos right.
I agree... i could care less as well... it just reminds me of two high school chicks fighting about how dawson said this or backtreet boy #2 said that or not. its pretty lame..--
Carlos
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Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:18:45 -0500 From: "Al @ Switchcraft" <al@isd.net> To: retaehT maerD <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Jens & Napster Message-ID: <39F76A55.C8D45EE7@isd.net>
I had a huge post sitting in my drafts folder for a few days... It was my reply to the intelligent argument Jens made about Napster. However, after reading the last two Jams, (Some of the best I've read in months) I elected to scrap it since I'd simply be reiterating the points made by several others. There have been strong arguments made by people on both sides of the fence.
Here's my opinion: The people loosing out are the POPULAR artists. However, this has been true for YEARS. Why? Cassette tape recorders! Prior to the digital age, people would quite often wait for their favorite songs to be aired and press the record button. Or they would wait until a friend/classmate purchased the album/CD and borrow it so they could record it in it's entirety. Their investment: A blank cassette. The only thing that has changed is the method. That can can be blamed on technology advancements. Is this any worse? That's your call.
Those that wish to steal, will. They've always had that option since tape recorders became available to home users back in the 50s.. (Open reel) The introduction of the cassettes simply made tape recording more versatile and portable. Cassettes eventually went on to become the media of choice for the average user. Even though they were inferior! Sound familiar?
The niche artist can only gain revenue simply because they gain exposure. They certainly can't be taped from local radio. Even if the thief never pays for his music, he may expose someone else to some music they would be willing to spend money on. Music that otherwise never would have seen the light of day. Some of us like the tangibles. Those that wish to steal popular music for the purpose of burning them to their own CDs can regardless of Napster. What's stopping them from running a cable from the line out of a tuner or receiver, to the line input of their sound card and dumping the end product onto CD? Napster just makes theft more efficient.
Another intelligent solution was mentioned by Jim: (aka Roadie) Limiting the the bitrate 56kbps.. That would be good enough to determine if the material was worth purchasing.
Brian Hayden hit the nail on the head with his post in Jam 5651. People are pointing their finger in the wrong direction.
-- Al - The Ytse-ProGtologist ^ Switchcraft Microsystems ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" --Will Rogers
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Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 22:00:24 -0700 From: Eckie <eckie@imap1.asu.edu> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: All Symphony X fans, READ THIS!!! Message-ID: <39F7BA68.82A713B1@imap1.asu.edu>
Matt Molite wrote: <snippage about www.symphonyx.com>
This is a ridiculously arrogant idiot who's drawing blood from the wrong people. Clearly a man with no scruples. Or a woman. :D
BUT...if you're talking exposure with an easy to remember url....
I've tried it myself, and I don't think http://www.metal.com is a registered domain name yet. Talk about your exposure (and imagine what the steel industry would pay to get the domain out of the hands of musicians! bwahahahahahaha. Oh shit. Why am I posting this?!)
~Eckie was never good at keeping his mouth shut
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 01:43:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Rick Audet <spine@optical.mindstorm.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: All Symphony X fans, READ THIS!!! Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10010260139470.2352-100000@optical.mindstorm.com>
On Wed, 25 Oct 2000, Eckie wrote:
> BUT...if you're talking exposure with an easy to remember url.... > > I've tried it myself, and I don't think http://www.metal.com is a > registered domain name yet. Talk about your exposure (and imagine what > the steel industry would pay to get the domain out of the hands of > musicians! bwahahahahahaha. Oh shit. Why am I posting this?!)
Heh... that domain name is definitely registered. as well as the net|org|cc|tv|ws versions. metal.com simply isn't being hosted right now. Goddamn squatters.
Rick Audet San Francisco
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Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 01:04:15 -0500 From: Kurt M Hampton <kurt.hampton@juno.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: NAPSTERJAM digest 5651 Message-ID: <20001026.010503.-19891.0.Kurt.Hampton@juno.com>
Man that was boring i hate napster, never use it never will. :)
How many of yall ordered yalls IAW t-shirts yet? They look beautiful. I can't wait :)
Kurtx3 can't wait for the Awake, ACOS, LATM and WDADU shirts (hopefully)
ytsekurt on AOL instant messenger Trade page-www.geocities.com/Kurt_labrie/Startpage.html "Shut the f*ck up. Don't make me come down there and kick your f*cking ass" -James Labrie 4/16/97
________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
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Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 06:24:42 GMT From: "Jarno Tuomainen" <jarno_tuomainen@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Napster Message-ID: <F1993MBhe3WYIgoFT3k00001833@hotmail.com>
Hi, there are lots of arguments both for and against, but the bottom line is this: Napster is aiding in distribution of copyrighted material to which it doesn't have any rights to. Basically it doesn't matter whether or not Napster is making money out of it, or if it affects CD sales one way or the other or whatever. Someone may feel justified to download music because "I wouldn't be able to get it otherwise", "I want to hear it before buying", "I can't afford to buy CDs" etc., but that doesn't change the fact that it is ILLEGAL to do so. The copyright holder has every right to their material, which includes deciding how and where they want to distribute it, be it through Napster-like file sharing system or 5.25" computer floppies for $58.99 each.
-Jarno _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.
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Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:38:18 +0100 From: David Cuthbert <d_cuthbert@lineone.net> To: "'yste jam'" <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Napster (between the devil and the deep blue sea) Message-ID: <01C03F38.F2638220.d_cuthbert@lineone.net>
Some views and observations about Napster users.
Here is my view of Napster, I have never logged onto Napster or downloaded any illegal MP3's from the internet, however I am not entirely for or against Napster. I am pro Napster if it will kick record company up the jackse to stop charging me ?16 a CD when I don't know whether I would like it or not. Now I have a friend that downloads every new commercial release through Napster, things like Toploader etc, and never buy the CD, but I know this guy would never buy the CD anyway because at ?16 a time that's like 15% of his weekly wages.
I also have another friend that has a CD collection getting on for about 2000 CD's who also downloads lots of stuff from Napster. This person still buy's loads of CD even if he has the MP3, the reason, the CD's he buys are usually from second hand CD shops, where a CD is ?5 (all of them) so for the price of one new CD he gets three.
So a compermise is needed, in my perfect world I would like to be able to download (WAV's not lossy MP3's) a number of tracks, have a week to listen to them, then the ones I decide to keep I pay for, maybe like 50p each or an album's worth for ?5. I don't want to rip musicians off, I am one myself, but should I ever be signed I would not want to rip off the people that buy my CD's. I would want the CD's to be cheaper and see less middle men taking there cut for putting the things in boxes and sticking a price tag on it.
I liken this a bit to buying a fake Rolex watch, if you can afford the real thing there is no way in this world you would buy a fake, if there is no way in the world you can afford the genuine thing you buy a fake. (you only do either of these if you like ugly watches though).
BTW London Hammersmith was awesome (thanks to any band member reading), my first DT gig so I think I saw a good one. I would like to have meet so other Jammers but had a three hour mini bus drive back to the flat lands.
Going to see Rick Wakeman in Skegness tomorrow night, probably the most bizarre act / venue combination I could imagine.
DavidC
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Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 21:42:49 +1000 From: "Paul Tadday" <dreamryche@bigpond.com> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: i bear napster's children Message-ID: <000101c03f45$07ac4e80$fb3836cb@dreamryche>
----- Original Message ----- ]From: gloom gloom <phairgirl@anada.net>
<<Seriously though, the nice thing about Napster being as big as it is right now is that there's a lot of obscure stuff on it, and I've really been able to expand my palette. Without Napster, I wouldn't be such a freak over The Gathering, that's for sure.>>
A big HELL YEAH to that!!!! Napster has opened up my eyes to so many awesome bands and a huge variety of music that I otherwise would never have known existed!!! Thanks to Napster I now know about, have bought cd's of and enjoy immensely, bands such as... The Gathering Symphony X Pain Of Salvation Explorer's Club The Tea Party Opeth Amorphis and a shitload of others!!! It has also steered me away from some stuff that I otherwise would have bought and been extremely disappointed with. Dissapointed enough to not want to buy any music from bands that I wasn't prepared to take a punt on otherwise!!! My band isn't anywhere near as established as Jen's is and I take his point, but to a young "unknown" band such as Cydonia, we will really appreciate Napster when our cd is finished in January. The more exposure the better at this stage of our career. Cheers!
Paul.
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Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 07:19:31 -0500 From: "Souter, Jan-Michael" <JSouter@healthaxis.com> To: "'ytsejam@torchsong.com'" <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: RE: NAPSTERJAM Message-ID: <74ACE5A6CB89D3119E6F00609720274A01FC26A4@ISDCRE00>
I have a shirt from every tour except the first CD... I'm diggin' my M2000 cap with the huge yellow Ytse symbol ! It usually gets quite a few looks at the malls. haha
On a side topic, at the mall Sunday I saw a guy with a bright orange shirt with the Napster logo and name on it and man I wanted that shirt!
NAPSTERJAM... hahaha love it!
> -----Original Message----- > From: Kurt M Hampton [SMTP:kurt.hampton@juno.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 1:00 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: NAPSTERJAM digest 5651 > > > Man that was boring i hate napster, never use it never will. :) > > How many of yall ordered yalls IAW t-shirts yet? They look beautiful. I > can't wait :) > > Kurtx3 can't wait for the Awake, ACOS, LATM and WDADU shirts (hopefully) > > ytsekurt on AOL instant messenger > Trade page-www.geocities.com/Kurt_labrie/Startpage.html > "Shut the f*ck up. Don't make me come down there and kick your f*cking > ass" > -James Labrie 4/16/97 > >
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Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 17:18:15 +0200 From: Andreas Schaefer <jerry@muc.de> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Napster inc of puppets Message-ID: <4.1.20001026081304.0094b710@mail.muc.de>
I mailed the following originally privatly to Jens Johansson, but maybe a few people here on the jam might also be interested to read my 2 cents on the Napster issue.
======== [..groveling to the keyboardmaster censored..] I'm also a german dude living in Silicon Valley, so maybe I have a rather unique perspective on the things around here (or maybe not). Napster good or bad? I believe it is bad, but... I'll try to separate my argument in 3 parts.
1.) Copyright Of course you as a musician and everybody who creates something unique (writer, programmer etc.) owns the copyright to his work in the first place. The concept of the copyright in its pure form is very clear and something that nobody will deny (insert ludicrous exception here). So now that we agree on your basic right to control your work, let's see how the concept is weakend by introducing the concept of capitalism, i.e. trading goods for money.
2.) Money and the industry As soon as you sign a contract with a record company you lose some control over your copyright. In laymens terms, you usually sign a deal that allows them to distribute copies of your work and in return you get money. (I know there's a few hundred different versions of how a contract like this works. In your case it's probably that Strato gets a specific amount of money as an advance = a "loan" to produce your next album and this advance will be be payed back with the earnings from the actual record sales). In addition to whatever agreement you have with you record company, they'll tell you how much records they sold and how often a specific song was played on the radio and you'll receive royalies according to these numbers. By the time your work is distributed through various channels (record companies, distributors, wholesale chains, record stores) you already lost a great amount of control over your intellectual property while you still own "copyright".
3.) Napster Napster is just another channel where intellectual property is traded without control of the original owner. Difference: you don't get royalties, record companies don't earn money. If Napster were making any money off that concept without having a contract with you or sending you the appropiate royalties, I could see this as theft. Therefore "Napster bad" (J.Hetfield :-) If Napster doesn't make any money... well it's just another way of distribution without consent of the owner of intellectual property - just like tapetrading, video-copying or making copies of a picture.
Conclusion: Whatever your point on the program called "Napster" is, you better get used to the idea of not having 100% control over your intellectual property. Let me quote a key sentence from an article in Wired 10/2000 p.240: "No law can be successfully imposed on a huge population that does not morally support it and possesses easy means for its invisible evasion." While I still believe that it is morally wrong to _steal_ property (even the intellectual kind), it is impossible to enforce any rules by shutting down Napster. Do you have any idea how much music is traded through FTP, IRC, Gopher and other means? And there are a few hundred "real" peer-to-peer programs in development or already out on the web that work similar to Napster but without any control through "Napster-servers". Again I don't think that this is right, but it won't go away. So we might as well deal with it. Let me present you another quote from the same Wired article: "The war is on, all right, but to my mind it's over. The future will win; there will be no property in cyberspace. [..] It's a pity that entertainment moguls are too wedged in to the past to recognize this, because now they are requiring us to fight a war anyway. So we'll fatten lawyers with a fortune that could be spent fostering and distributing creativity. And we may be forced to watch a few pointless public executions - Shawn Fanning's cross awaits - when we could be employing such condemned genius in the service of a greater good." This might be a little bit overstated (as usual in Wired), but the basic point is (imho) right. It's over, so let's see how we make the best of it.
[..more grovelig cut..] ========
take care, Andreas aka jerry
-- --------------------------------------------------------------- Andreas Schaefer jerry@muc.de ...bei 200 Grad 15 Minuten backen, und keine Eier! - Tool ---------------------------------------------------------------
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 5652 **************************
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