YTSEJAM Digest 6351
Today's Topics:
1) virus
by "D C" <Iluvatar@twcny.rr.com>
2) Phish Food
by "Kevin Hammer" <tufif_de_siks@hotmail.com>
3) RE: re: PHISH
by Julie Kingsborough <jewels737@comcast.net>
4) Economie & Ilia. Brian & labels.
by "Stephen Gervois" <sgervois@atmel.fr>
5) Like, woah, duude....
by "Paul W. Cashman" <pellaz@attbi.com>
6) Re: virus/Phish
by Mark Peters <epididymisle@earthlink.net>
7) Stoner rock and political crap (NDTC)
by "Ambassador Nelaskon" <moc_liam@mail.com>
8) Re: Another virus??? Details: Mirjam Biemans [bimi2_99@home.nl] - W9X -650.ZIP.scr
by "mikE emerson" <cthulhu@cybernex.net>
9) Second album covered **SPOILERS**
by "HJ Rivera" <hrivera@crp.org>
10) Phish and Hippies
by "Pye, Adam T" <Adam.Pye@BellSouth.com>
11) Re: stuff (NDTC)
by Ilia <painlessscream@yahoo.com>
12) phish
by "Bryan Moore" <b_rock_h@hotmail.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 18:15:46 -0400
From: "D C" <Iluvatar@twcny.rr.com>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: virus
Message-ID: <BOEAJJBDNFPALMNMJONIAEEKCBAA.Iluvatar@twcny.rr.com>
I stand corrected. The e-mail from "bimi2_99@home.nl" was the BugBear virus.
-Dan.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 20:01:13 -0400
From: "Kevin Hammer" <tufif_de_siks@hotmail.com>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Phish Food
Message-ID: <DAV14PK7muspM1Pi33g00003ec8@hotmail.com>
Anyone here ever try Phish Food ice cream from Ben & Jerry's? It's good :)
Kevin
http://mp3.com/infinityminusone
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 22:24:03 -0400
From: Julie Kingsborough <jewels737@comcast.net>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: RE: re: PHISH
Message-ID: <000701c27972$16b839c0$6401a8c0@comcast.net>
Hmm...I don't listen to Phish, but I do listen to Grateful Dead, and a few
other "hippie" styled musics. Yeah, so it's called stoner rock, but trust
me, I'm not stoned when I listen to it. It's music I listen to when I just
want to chill and not have to think about things, or when I just want to
cruise down backroads on warm summer days, with my windows down (I go for
more Led Zeppelin when I do that though)Oh, and they tend to be labled
"folk"...I mean, the Dead play banjos and whatnot.
Oh, and to whoever said that DT fans are labeled as musical "snobs" as it
were...Yeah, I can see how. I could consider myself to be that way...I have
a hard time listening to a lot of the crap put out anymore because it's just
not as technically good, or satisfying to me. DT, and other prog rock is
more artsy...at least that's how I see it. So yeah...that's all I have to
say...
Julie
http://www.geocities.com/jewels7337
http://www.xanga.com/jewels737
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 06:59:54 +0200
From: "Stephen Gervois" <sgervois@atmel.fr>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Economie & Ilia. Brian & labels.
Message-ID: <012101c27987$dcd09c00$3cff9f0a@pc0099>
> The economic conditions in the world
> are abominable, and that's really the biggest issue behind
> everything.
Ilia, I like that kind of mail, and this isn't a flame to you just my
opinion.
For me economie isn't the biggest issue behind anything.
I'm not an economist but not EVERY market can GROW forever.
I don't know why you all think things are going bad.
All media keep saying things are getting bad but we all (in our rich "we
won't share with you starving poor bastard" countries) have passed the need
for survival.
I've 2 cars, 2 PC's, a 6 chord Cort, 100's of CD's, DVD, camcorder ect...
ect...
Wow I'm in deep shit, I'm gonna die of pleasure exhaustian.
The real problem is not economic => it's the majorities pesimisme.
> Jam rock's the label
> you're looking for
I just hate labels.
I know it's needed so you don't go and accidently buy something you dislike.
I just think it's overboard.
Like : what is DT (and don't answer metal prog because you can't classify
all songs under that) ?
what is Mr Bungle ? ska ?
what is Primus ? thrash ?
what is Metallica nowadays ;) ? pop ?
and RHCP for that matter !! ? pop ?
and Tenacious D ? unplugged thrash ?
ect... ect...
See ye,
A carbon based life form.
PS : I make spelling mistakes and don't give a shit ;)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 03:05:10 -0400
From: "Paul W. Cashman" <pellaz@attbi.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Like, woah, duude....
Message-ID: <3DB4F8A5.3EAB@attbi.com>
> Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 22:54:17 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Craig Maloney <craig@ic.net>
> Subject: RE: re: PHISH
> On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Chris Calabrese wrote:
>
> > And jam rock isn't the road to go down. If you wanna listen to some good
> > shit to get stoned to, pick up some Miles Davis or John Coltrane or Charles
> > Mingus as far as instrumental music goes and STICK YOUR PHISH CD WHERE IT
> > BELONGS - IN YOUR MICROAVE!
>
> I know it's easy to judge musicians by their fans, but Phish (and Ozric
> Tentacles and even the Dead) aren't their fans. They just happen to get
> lots of hippie-wanna-be attention.
Ozric Tentacles gets lots of hippie-wannabe attention? Pah. It is
to laugh. They don't get half the attention they deserve here.
In my experience, moreover, Ozrics appeal at least as much to fans (or,
more commonly, CREATORS) of heavy music as they do to hippies. Their
fan-base astonishes me, not for its size but for its diversity.
Cases in point:
- Mikael Akerfeldt of Opeth (and indeed, the rest of the band)
- Brian Fair of Shadow's Fall
- Mike Portnoy of Dream Theater
- Lyle Steadham of Ghoultown (ex-Solitude Aeturnus)
- Gregoor Van der Loo, ex-Lemur Voice (plus Marcel C., etc.)
.and about half my longtime Internet radio audiences, many of whom a)
have bought Ozrics CDs while I've played stuff for them, b) are prog-
death- and/or black-metal fans.
Sorry for the slight rant; I just thought you were painting with a broad
brush indeed. :) Hell, if Ozrics had half the support that Phish or
the Dead did over here, they wouldn't be hunting for a decent US label
and tour-support. (Side-note to those "in the know"...Ozrics would be
a notable label-signing over here. :))
Now, in other news for the rest of youse spike-and-leather wearing
hippie-types :)....
New Ozrics 2-CD release LIVE AT THE PONGMASTERS BALL is out! Rawwwk!
\m/ And the live DVD is due within a few weeks, supposedly
region-free. :)
-- +--- Paul W. Cashman, ICQ #4151223 www.paulcashman.com ----+ | **** NEW email: pellaz@attbi.com | | **** NEW website address: http://home.attbi.com/~pellaz | +---------------------------------------------------------------+------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 03:48:12 -0500 From: Mark Peters <epididymisle@earthlink.net> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: virus/Phish Message-ID: <3DB510CC.7C6E94E2@earthlink.net>
From: "Costello, Daniel J" <daniel.j.costello@lmco.com> > I don't think this was the BugBear virus, though. This one had an attachment > called "W9X-650.ZIP.scr" and was sent > from "Mirjam Biemans [bimi2_99@home.nl]" > > Any of this sound/look familiar to anybody?
I got one of those today with the same fake reply to field. The headers say that the message originated from 194.151.104.155 but that might not be the true source either. It wasn't Bugbear, it was Klez, btw.
About Phish - I've always thought Trey Anastacio (I almost typed Trey Azagthoth :) was a tremendous guitarist, but I have never cared for the music I heard from Phish. That was why I was so glad to hear about Oysterhead, which is him, Stewart Copeland, and Les Claypool. Now THAT stuff rubs me the right way!
DTC - For spoiler reasons, I don't want to type the name of the classic album covered in its entirety by DT within the last few hours, but - Damn! I can't wait to hear a recording of it!
Take care, Mark Peters epididymisle@earthlink.net
PS - Rush kicked my ass last weekend in Atlanta. Unfortunately, I only recognized Phil from here, but I know there were other jammers there. Sorry I didn't get to meet any new folks.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 02:39:31 -0800 From: "Ambassador Nelaskon" <moc_liam@mail.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Stoner rock and political crap (NDTC) Message-ID: <20021022103931.77702.qmail@mail.com>
I'm not too familiar with Phish, but I know that I really dislike the Grateful Dead and most other bands like that ... except I guess for the Guess Who.
And I do agree that a lot of their fans are stupid. But not all of them are, and I really don't see the point in slamming other bands just because we think their fans are stupid.
However, the way some people go on about certain older bands (Beatles, Grateful Dead, CCR) being so freaking awesome like nothing else is any good at all ... that annoys the crap out of me to the point where I can almost understand saying "Fuck it, they just suck ass."
..And I'm not so sure how many hippies were really open-minded about things or not. What I CAN say is that a lot of people who think they'r eopen-minded are really not, they just like to call anyone who disagrees with them "closed-minded"
>>> They WISH that the country could be going through some rough > times again like CIVIL RIGHTS or VIETNAM, just so they feel > like they can have some sort of purpose. Nowadays we have to > deal with the arrogant extremist Bush Administration > fundamentals...but it's no reason to become a hippie! <<<
See? This is like people saying "I hate those racist (insert race here) people. ALL of them, that's all they ever are, racist!" Or maybe "All those women of the world are so damned sexist"...
I'm sure some of them are just as confused as you make them out to be. But how does that have relevance to the rest of the discussion? I know, I get that way a bit too about rappers or whatever, so I guess I know where you're coming from ... but you sound pretty extremist yourself the way you said those things, and the way you slipped that crack about Bush in there.
Arrogant, extremist, AND "fundamentals", eh? "ALL those damned extremist right-wingers!!!" ... Of course, people like Tom Daschle aren't "Arrogant extremist left-wing (what's the opposite of fundamentalists?)??? NO, of course not. Even if you consider the fact that Bush has tried to get economic recovery through congress, the House approved it with bipartisan support and compromise from both sides, and then Tom Daschle refused to even LOOK at it. No, HE's not an extremist at all ... I'd call him either a MORON, or someone who knows exactly what will make people point fingers at Republicans and get more Democrats elected next time.
>>> Once again, they've done well to divert your attention from what's really going on. The economic conditions in the world are abominable, and that's really the biggest issue behind everything. The virtual disintegration of Argentina, Brazil, Italy, and several others, shows that the IMF system is painfully obviously flawed, the floating-rate exchange standard of the Nixon (or, should I say, the Kissinger) administration is going nowhere, and the New Economy is dead. Our culture right now will not allow us to build our way out of the depression like we did in World War II, yet the depression is pretty inevitable. And if Bush is allowed to continue, and let the U.S. economy go under, we're in for Huntington's Clash of Civilizations, and soon after a new dark age. And you say there's nothing to fight for? There's a lot more to politics than war. <<<
I'm not sure what's worse, the fact that our economy is pretty screwed up or the fact that many people are giving Bush shit because of it. Now I don't think Bush is some perfect, awesome president, but I have been paying attention to what's going on, and Bush didn't screw up the economy, and from what I can tell by all the analists talking back and forth (yes, I try to listen to all sides of a debate), he isn't hurting it now either by this whole Iraq thing. Many people actually expect a RECOVERY if an attack happens. Now, I'm not too incredibly optimistic about that, but the point is that people like to blame others when things go all to Hell ... and ususlly they're pointing fingers at the other political extreme.
I don't know what political persuasion Alan Greenspan is, but he has played quite a role in this whole thing. I don't think he CAUSED it, either, but didn't help it a whole lot.
Also, if you guys are just mad about Bush's talks of attacking Iraq, he has tried to present alternatives to the UN (for instance, sending the inspectors in with military escorts only in case the inspectors were told they could not enter) and many countries just won't have it. I think they're just too worried about how the Islamic nations will react to it. Anyway, it seems to me that he has been talking so strongly to counteract the other side.
"If Bush is allowed to continue" ... I find it odd how so many people can become victims of politicians' games and misleading accusations, yet STILL believe that they are open-minded and that the other side are closed-minded. It goes all around. I don't pretend to be immune to these effects, but I do try to be, as much as I can.
Cyaron
"Never stop dreaming, because your dreams will never die. When you forget how to dream, you forget how to live." - Max Verran
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:13:08 -0400 From: "mikE emerson" <cthulhu@cybernex.net> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: Another virus??? Details: Mirjam Biemans [bimi2_99@home.nl] - W9X -650.ZIP.scr Message-ID: <02c801c279c4$623ea9e0$021ea8c0@memerson002>
> Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 13:45:19 -0400 > From: "Costello, Daniel J" <daniel.j.costello@lmco.com> > To: "'ytsejam@torchsong.com'" <ytsejam@torchsong.com> > Subject: Another virus??? Details: Mirjam Biemans [bimi2_99@home.nl] - W9X -650.ZIP.scr > Message-ID: <9EFD49E2FB59D411AABA0008C7E675C007DA332F@emss04m10.ems.lmco.com> > > Howdy all, > > I just received another virus here at work, and I'm wondering if maybe it > came from someone on the jam, since this is about the only mailing list to > which I've given my e-mail address at work. > > I don't think this was the BugBear virus, though. This one had an attachment > called "W9X-650.ZIP.scr" and was sent > from "Mirjam Biemans [bimi2_99@home.nl]" > > Any of this sound/look familiar to anybody?
yeah, it does look familiar...
i got a message from the same person a few days ago, but my isp's anti-virus software screened it so i didn't get it...
all i know is that it had an attachment that contained a virus of some sort...
later...
mikE emerson
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 10:00:09 -0400 From: "HJ Rivera" <hrivera@crp.org> To: "Ytsejam" <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Second album covered **SPOILERS** Message-ID: <EGEIJAKNLNKPLAHMKAIPMEKODDAA.hrivera@crp.org>
Well, I haven't seen this posted here (with my luck, though, there's about twenty msgs about this on the queue) and I know some of you don't use the online forums. Last night, DT played a second night in London, debuting the second classic album they've covered:
****SPOILERS*** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** Iron Maiden's - The Number of the Beast *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ****SPOILERS****
\m/ \m/
joe
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 10:10:28 -0400 From: "Pye, Adam T" <Adam.Pye@BellSouth.com> To: "'ytsejam@torchsong.com'" <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Phish and Hippies Message-ID: <D49F5F45C94E5447AF27277C3F9AD7BD01457EBE@bremocOg>
Ok. For you self-proclaimed experts on the 'hippie movement' and Phish.
1. There are virtually no hippies under the age of 55 at this point. The VAST majority of the people that listen to Phish hate that term and would deny being a part of that category. "Hippie band" is just a term that (very) uninformed people (like so many on this list) give to these kinds of bands. Trust me - I've been to just under 90 Widespread Panic concerts (and go to between 20 and 30 non-Panic so-called 'hippie band' shows a year), know the music and people surrounding it extremely well, and can tell you that they ain't hippies. I love all of you people waxing (not so) eloquent on a topic of which you've clearly just seen the very surface. As someone who's actually experienced a lot of this stuff, not one of you people has actually shown any kind of real knowledge about the 'jam band' (which is another name these groups try to stay away from) scene.
2. For the people saying that Phish's jams are just one chord with some melody on top, you CLEARLY have no idea what you're talking about. Go listen... That said, I can't stand Phish either. They're incredibly talented musicians (and rival most of these prog rock bands we talk about as far as musical ability - there's no denying that), but I can't stand their vocals. That's just me...
I guess I won't be seeing any of you in New Orleans next week for the three Halloween Widespread Panic shows? :-) One thing I can say - I've never had CLOSE to as good a time at a Dream Theater show as I have at Panic shows (and I've been to about 20 Dream Theater shows). New Orleans will just be a multi-day party with a whole lot of fun, outgoing people. You don't have to deal with the incredibly lame "I'm a studly, agressive metal fan" black shirt crowd...
Oh yeah - and guess where Portnoy got his ideas to cover a full album at certain shows and mix up the setlist every night on this tour? Hey - it's Phish!!!
Adam
***** "The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential, proprietary, and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all computers."
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 11:30:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Ilia <painlessscream@yahoo.com> To: Ytsejam Mailing List <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: stuff (NDTC) Message-ID: <20021022183000.76097.qmail@web11307.mail.yahoo.com>
Stephen Gervois" <sgervois@atmel.fr> wrote:
> For me economie isn't the biggest issue behind anything.
To really understand why it is, or should be, you have to think of what economy is, and why there is a fundamental need for it. The science of physical economy (unlike the economics taught today in school) is about need fulfillment, not want fulfillment. Everyone has needs (even if it's only the need to satisfy the desire to have a camcorder), and they are fulfilled by economy. For reasons I state below, economic growth is the basis for human survival.
> I'm not an economist but not EVERY market can GROW forever.
First of all, it has been proven several times during the course of this century that, despite all the mathematical and computer models that predict apocalypse, there are no limits to growth. Biological life is anti-entropic, and human cognitive nature is anti-entropic. However, a population cannot sustain itself without growth, otherwise it runs out of resources. The ancient Greek civilization destroyed itself when it switched into Empire mode (against better advice of Socrates and his followers), the same happened to the Roman Empire, every rise of British Empire was met by a subsequent fall, the Russian Empire was doomed from the beginning, and the Ottoman Empire is now non-existent. Imperialistic way of thinking is of a nature of looting, not economic growth, and therefore it cannot prevail, ever - that is a scientifically provable fact.
Now, what is economic growth then? Scarcity of resources and the calculus that chains it is a ludicrously Newtonian view of economic activities, on which no scientific principles can be based. Economic growth is defined, as exemplified by work of Leibniz and Papin (sp?) with the steam engine, by technological development of unification of task through discovery of the underlying principle. So, technological growth is measurable per means of economic progress, and in that sense, we haven't grown much economically since the Renaissance.
> I don't know why you all think things are going bad.
Since World War II, U.S. machine tools production has dropped over 60%. Education system has declined greatly as well, the railroad system is in ruin, waterways have degraded, power production is weak, health care, besides the fascist HMO system, is pretty much dead, and a number of other things are going wrong. You may not be from the US, and you may not care, but globally, the IMF system is bankrupt, most of the world's governments are insolvent as a result, and generally, we are moving away from national sovereignty into a globalist, imperial system. Countries are becoming less sufficient, and by moving to a globalist system they are only hastening their own demise. Scary shit.
> All media keep saying things are getting bad but we all (in > our rich "we won't share with you starving poor bastard" > countries) have passed the need for survival. I've 2 cars, 2
> PC's, a 6 chord Cort, 100's of CD's, DVD, camcorder ect... > ect... Wow I'm in deep shit, I'm gonna die of pleasure > exhaustian.
What do you do for a living? How long do you think you're going to be able to do it? Just your opinion suffices for a demonstration of how it's not as great as it looks. Sense-perception analysis is an error of Aristotle that has survived for way too long.
"Ambassador Nelaskon" <moc_liam@mail.com> wrote:
> I'm not sure what's worse, the fact that our economy is pretty
> screwed up or the fact that many people are giving Bush shit > because of it.
Who else? He's the president. The new economy was a hoax, and he should have seen then that, as president, his duty was going to be to fix things. (Why was it a hoax? Because you can't base measurement of economy on Nixon's floating-exchange-rate bullshit, you have to measure production. Internet doesn't bring people together - infrastructure does.)
In the Great Depression we were quick blame Hoover. Now, for us the role of the president has been broken down to a mere figurehead. Look at our society. What has the president done about that?
> Now I don't think Bush is some perfect, awesome president, but
> I have been paying attention to what's going on, and Bush > didn't screw up the economy,
Bush is an idiot. And he's losing his mind, day by day. You put an idiot under that much pressure, and he'll crack. He's hyperventilating, he's shaking, he can't even recall most simple things. He says, "I want peace, so we must go fight Iraq" (pardon the paraphrase). The economy is a much bigger issue.
> and from what I can tell by all the analists talking back and > forth (yes, I try to listen to all sides of a debate), he > isn't hurting it now either by this whole Iraq thing.
Iraq is not an issue. Economy is the issue. The Iraq policy right now was drafted by the circles of Cheney, Wolfowitz, Pearle, et al. about 10 years ago, in response to Huntington's Clash of Civilizations paper. This is the utopian crowd - right in our government! Ted Kazinsky is in prison, why aren't they?
> Many people actually expect a RECOVERY if an attack happens.
Recovery? What, just magically out of nowhere? The ideal of a capitalist economy creating its own demand has been proven wrong by the Great Depression. World War II did not bring us out of the Great Depression, though; it was, rather, FDR's Bretton Woods policy, and infrastructural development that fixed the economy, and later allowed us to prevail in World War II.
An aside on that subject - notice what happens after FDR dies. Truman takes office, reverses most of the policies by Roosevelt to go back to colonialism (a form of imperialism), BOMBS fucking Japan after they're defeated (they had nothing - McArthur had them beaten), and puts up an IRON CURTAIN consistent with Bertrand Russell's idea that USSR had to be forced, with the strong arm of U.S. under British guidance (command was the more appropriate word which he didn't use), to surrender to the world government, to be formed, once again, by the British oligarchy. (read interviews with Russell, and books by H.G. Wells).
But now, going back to the current depression at hand. First of all, it's worse than Great Depression - it's a system crisis. Secondly, you have a society that is {intellectually} incapable of rebuilding like we did during the 1930s. Thirdly, most of our productive capacity lies overseas, and we cannot even support our own recovery. They don't happen on their own by magic, people actually build their way out of recoveries.
> Now, I'm not too incredibly optimistic about that,
Me neither, not at all. ;)
> but the point is that people like to blame others when things > go all to Hell ... and ususlly they're pointing fingers at the
> other political extreme.
Personally, I'm not pointing fingers at a political extreme - I think all of them are way off. Currently, policy needs to be dictated by economic conditions, not politics. If we don't see it by the end of 2002, then shortly after in 2003 for sure - we're in for it. Shit's gonna go down.
> I don't know what political persuasion Alan Greenspan is, but
> he has played quite a role in this whole thing. I don't think > he CAUSED it, either, but didn't help it a whole lot.
He supports the IMF system, and benefits greatly from it - that's cause enough for me, although that may be just my humble opinion. His political persuasion? Nazi, perhaps? Hard to tell really, but he's not a good guy. He's the one that tells people to continue going about their business, that "recovery is just around the corner." One of the #1 brainwashers.
> Also, if you guys are just mad about Bush's talks of attacking
> Iraq, he has tried to present alternatives to the UN (for > instance, sending the inspectors in with military escorts only
> in case the inspectors were told they could not enter) and > many countries just won't have it. I think they're just too > worried about how the Islamic nations will react to it. > Anyway, it seems to me that he has been talking so strongly to
> counteract the other side.
Once again, I refer you to the draft policies of the circles currently around Bush (look at Kissinger, who's close to an advisor, Brzezinsky, et al., as well as the names I mentioned earlier) beginning as early as 1970s, up through 1990s. Look at what they want out of the world. Bush thinks he's fighting a holy war, or maybe he thinks he's finishing up his daddy's crusade, it's hard to say. What he is in fact doing is continuing the perpetual war he started against the Middle East shortly after Sept 11th. What happened to Osama? Why aren't we looking for him anymore? There were even speculations that he's dead by now (disproven, I believe, by his applause to perpetrators of the recent big bombing). We are in a state of warfare with no objective - irregular I'd say is the proper terminology for it. We will keep going and going until our economy doesn't permit us anymore. Which is soon.
> "If Bush is allowed to continue" ... I find it odd how so many
> people can become victims of politicians' games and misleading
> accusations, yet STILL believe that they are open-minded and > that the other side are closed-minded. It goes all around. I > don't pretend to be immune to these effects, but I do try to > be, as much as I can.
I had to be sufficiently open-minded to take in the amounts of literature I went through to come to my conclusions. The evidence is there, and I think open-minded people should look to that - not second-source and media brainwashing. I'm not saying I'm perfect, at best well-informed.
That is all.
- Ilia.
==== Always use the word impossible with the greatest caution. --- Wernher Von Braun
__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
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Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 16:16:16 -0400 From: "Bryan Moore" <b_rock_h@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: phish Message-ID: <F167kMiPeZfJ3BdsRci0000da46@hotmail.com>
jammers
phish have some of the most interesting chord progressions in music, not just one chord jammed out for 45 minutes, open your ears people, listen to you enjoy myself and count the number of chord progressions you may be pleasently surprised.
lates.
Bryan
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