YTSEJAM Digest 6590
Today's Topics:
1) Re:
by Lisa Palma <comadivine@covad.net>
2) Re: Wow, an 11K jam! It's a miracle :\....
by Lisa Palma <comadivine@covad.net>
3) Re: Wow, an 11K jam! It's a miracle :\....
by Rick Audet <spine@electricrain.com>
4) Re: Opeth (RE: Wow, an 11K jam! It's a miracle :\....)
by Rick Audet <spine@electricrain.com>
5) Re: Pleasant Surprise Lastnight at the Oakdale
by Michael Pomerleau <mpomerle@comcast.net>
6) why musicians run out of ideas...
by Brian Hansen <bhansen10@yahoo.com>
7) RE: Opeth (RE: Wow, an 11K jam! It's a miracle :\....)
by "Niall Connaughton" <ytsejam@bigpond.net.au>
8) Re: Opeth (RE: Wow, an 11K jam! It's a miracle :\....)
by Mike Shetzer <echo26@videotron.ca>
9) 101 Rules of Prog, pt 1, attempt 2
by "Dan Costello" <Iluvatar@twcny.rr.com>
10) 101 Rules of Prog, pt 2
by "Dan Costello" <Iluvatar@twcny.rr.com>
11) DT Keyboard Sounds
by Jonathan Roberts <danthar@yahoo.com>
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Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 09:58:46 -0700
From: Lisa Palma <comadivine@covad.net>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re:
Message-ID: <3F0C49C6.5060802@covad.net>
rob denni wrote:
> My 10 year old son loves The Glass Prison.
LOL! Sounds like an issue for Child Services. ;)
~L
-- ::::Lisa Marie Palma:::: :::::lisa@palma.net:::::------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 10:02:05 -0700 From: Lisa Palma <comadivine@covad.net> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Wow, an 11K jam! It's a miracle :\.... Message-ID: <3F0C4A8D.1010205@covad.net>
Ambassador Nelaskon wrote: > I looked at dreamtheater.net and could not find a mention of the jam. Does anybody know if that can be changed?
The link is there. It's under FANS / Dream Theater Mailinglists. It's the first one listed after the UACM Newsletter.
~L -- ::::Lisa Marie Palma:::: :::::lisa@palma.net:::::
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Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:40:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Rick Audet <spine@electricrain.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: Wow, an 11K jam! It's a miracle :\.... Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.56.0307091125280.17844@zot.electricrain.com>
On Wed, 9 Jul 2003, Ambassador Nelaskon wrote:
> It kinda sucks when I'm interested in talking about something, but > always ask myself if it's even worthwhile to post to the jam. You guys > have some different perspectives on things then the SX guys do. We need > to get this list known about again.
Ask away. I'd like to see this list come back to life. It shouldn't take much considering how much fluff^H^H^H^H^Hconversation happens on all the other lists. No offense to all the other list runners out there. You know I love you all. Lots.
Rick Audet San Francisco
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Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:47:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Rick Audet <spine@electricrain.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: Opeth (RE: Wow, an 11K jam! It's a miracle :\....) Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.56.0307091141170.17844@zot.electricrain.com>
On Wed, 9 Jul 2003, Niall Connaughton wrote:
> Ok, here's something to talk about.. > > Hands up who likes Opeth? Anyone here who doesn't should :P If you don't > like the vocals, give them a shot and give it a few listens. Took me years > to get over the vocals, but they're great! > > Besides, growling vox are the best for singing along to... you don't need to > know the words, just join in :P > > Niall
Actually, when people started raving about "Blackwater Park" a couple years ago, I gave it a listen and I could kinda hear what was cool about it, but it didn't grab me a whole lot. The growly vocals weren't agreeing with me at first. So I forgot about the album for a while, and a year or so later I decided to give it another whirl. This time around I found that I liked it a lot, so I purchased that album (had been listening to mp3s previously) plus "Deliverance," which is also excellent.
Although the newest album, "Damnation," is completely different, it's not surprising to me that they'd record an album like that, as mellow as it is, because they've been sprinkling that sort of stuff here and there throughout the previous two albums. I have yet to check out their earlier material though.
So yeah, I'm an Opeth fan now, even if the name conjures the lithp I had in elementary thchool.
Rick Audet Than Franthithco
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Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 15:18:00 -0400 From: Michael Pomerleau <mpomerle@comcast.net> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Pleasant Surprise Lastnight at the Oakdale Message-ID: <6.0.0.10.0.20030709151452.02ada1b0@localhost>
SPOILERS BELOW
1
2
3
4
5
6
>Then they did a song by The Who. I don't know which song it was as I don't >listen to The Who but I did recognize it as being one of their songs. The >balding 40+ fans seemed excited but I would have rather heard a Pink Floyd >song or something by The Doors. I don't really have much else to say about >this song except for the fact that both bands were really having a good >time.
The WHO Song was "Dont Get Fooled Again." It was probably one of the COOLEST things I have ever seen at a DT Show, and I have been to alot of DT Concerts.
The show last night rocked. Fates was Good - Too short a set though. QR was great. DT was Awesome - the ending of "HOME" is just way too cool live. And the final Encore was INCREDIBLE.
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Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:27:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Hansen <bhansen10@yahoo.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: why musicians run out of ideas... Message-ID: <20030709232758.6370.qmail@web13108.mail.yahoo.com>
Don't blame me, I didn't write it!
__________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com
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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:38:44 +1000 From: "Niall Connaughton" <ytsejam@bigpond.net.au> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: RE: Opeth (RE: Wow, an 11K jam! It's a miracle :\....) Message-ID: <OPEJJAPFDGDMCLAHLLIMCENMCPAA.ytsejam@bigpond.net.au>
Yeah, everyone says that, people look at me funny when I say that name to them :P
Morningrise is good as well...
> -----Original Message----- > From: ytsejam@torchsong.com [mailto:ytsejam@torchsong.com]On Behalf Of > Rick Audet > Sent: Thursday, 10 July 2003 5:11 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Opeth (RE: Wow, an 11K jam! It's a miracle :\....) > > So yeah, I'm an Opeth fan now, even if the name conjures the lithp I had > in elementary thchool.
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Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 22:22:12 -0400 From: Mike Shetzer <echo26@videotron.ca> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Opeth (RE: Wow, an 11K jam! It's a miracle :\....) Message-ID: <005601c3468a$12fbd130$9b00a8c0@mike>
I was never really a fan of the growling vocals, and I've probably told this story before but... I had heard raves about Blackwater Park when it came out, downloaded The Leper Affinity (track 1) and stopped listening to it after 2 minutes mainly because of the heaviness and the growling vocals. When Deliverance was near being completed and I had heard that Wilson from PT had helped out on that and BP, I redownloaded Leper Affinity, listened to the whole thing and was absolutely BLOWN away... I think I listened to that album religiously day after day for 2 or 3 weeks, something I had only done with Ozric, Flower Kings and DT. Since then I have gotten all their albums and think that they kick mucho ass! I'm also quite excited for the PT/Opeth show next week!!!!!!!! :)
----- Original Message ----- From: "Niall Connaughton" <ytsejam@bigpond.net.au> To: "Multiple recipients of list" <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 8:04 AM Subject: Opeth (RE: Wow, an 11K jam! It's a miracle :\....)
> Ok, here's something to talk about.. > > Hands up who likes Opeth? Anyone here who doesn't should :P If you don't > like the vocals, give them a shot and give it a few listens. Took me years > to get over the vocals, but they're great! > > Besides, growling vox are the best for singing along to... you don't need to > know the words, just join in :P > > Niall > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ytsejam@torchsong.com [mailto:ytsejam@torchsong.com]On Behalf Of > > Ambassador Nelaskon > > Sent: Wednesday, 9 July 2003 9:34 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list > > Subject: Wow, an 11K jam! It's a miracle :\.... > > > > It kinda sucks when I'm interested in talking about something, > > but always ask myself if it's even worthwhile to post to the jam. > > You guys have some different perspectives on things then the SX > > guys do. We need to get this list known about again. > > > > > > Cyaron > > > > > > "He who has the power to see > > that which cannot be seen > > shall see the truth." - Golden Sun > > > > -- > > __________________________________________________________ > > Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com > > http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup > > > > CareerBuilder.com has over 400,000 jobs. Be smarter about your job search > > http://corp.mail.com/careers > > > >
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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 00:43:01 -0400 From: "Dan Costello" <Iluvatar@twcny.rr.com> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: 101 Rules of Prog, pt 1, attempt 2 Message-ID: <BOEAJJBDNFPALMNMJONIGEELCEAA.Iluvatar@twcny.rr.com>
Ok, let's try this again:
Thought you guys might get a chuckle out of this:
1. Insist that your definition of prog metal is sacred and that the only progressive bands are the one you deem to be so.
2. Accuse anyone who disagrees with you regarding rule 1 of lacking musical intelligence and not being a true prog fan.
3. Have contempt for mainstream music.
4. Insist that most people listen not to the music, not to the lyrics but only the chorus and that is why prog metal is not mainstream.
5. Accuse anyone who disagrees with you regarding rule 4 of lacking musical intelligence and not being a true prog fan.
6. When showcasing a new prog metal band to a non-musician friend, put on the most technically difficult song, and skip directly to the solo part.
7. If your friend says that it is cool, tell him that he has grasped the grandeur of prog and shown that his intelligence is superior to that of the mainstream sheep.
8. If he doesn`t, accuse him of lacking musical intelligence and not being a true prog fan.
9. Renounce all contact with friend in rule 8. Racial purity isn`t all bad.
10. Make sure your drummer has a double bass pedal.
11. If he hasn`t, kick him out and get another one who has. Single pedal is NOT prog.
12. Own every side-project a member of Dream Theater has been involved in. Listen to approximately none of them regularly.
13. When a mainstream fool asks you what prog metal is, tell him something along the lines of "prog is the evolution of musical expression and experimentalism in rock". In any case, make sure that the person in question is left with no idea of what prog metal is. He wouldn`t have understood anyway.
14. Insist that music should always progress, although as long as you write an album in the prog vein, you dont necessarily have to.
15. Accuse anyone who disagrees with you regarding rule 14 of lacking musical intelligence and not being a true prog fan.
16. Refer to progressive metal as intelligent music for intelligent people, preferably at every occasion where a mainstream group or genre is mentioned.
17. Note that the above does not qualify as arrogance any more than pointing out that wine is drink for the more sophisticated.
18. A song under four minutes is NOT prog. If you are stuck with a song under four minutes, insert a phrygian solo trade-off between the guitarist and keyboardist as long as needed.
19. If a mainstream fool tells you that shredders are mindless wankers, tell him that "at least they can tune their guitars, har har", and walk away defiantly.
20. Spocks Beard is NOT prog. If anyone disagrees, kill them.
21. Humming along with the melody to a prog metal song is forbidden. Burn all albums you own with hum-along melodies.
22. Loathe all music you used to like before you got into prog. This is not optional. When asked why, tell people that "I am into GOOD music now, why would I go back?".
23. Accuse any prog metal musician that cuts his hair of selling out.
24. Often state that you don't only listen to prog. Jazz is a good choice.
25. Yeah...like you have more than 3 jazz CDs in your collection...
26. Never accept ANY Berklee graduates. The drop-outs are so much better.
27. Riffs in 4/4 are not progressive. If you happen to come up with a cool riff in 4/4, alternate between 4/4 and progressive time signatures like 7/8 every other measure to ensure the musical complexity synonymous with prog metal.
28. Be able to mention 20 bands noone has heard of, not even true prog fans. Own no releases of these bands.
29. Get an Ibanez. This is not negotiable.
30. Spend 5 hours every day critiquing other musicians on forums.
31. Spend 5 minutes every other day actually practicing your instrument.
32. Yell at people who headbang at concerts: They`re not prog enough to get the music, what do they expect?
33. Sus4 is your friend. To ensure that your album is a true progressive release, include at least one part where the keyboard plays ascending sus4 chords over a single-note broken rhythm in 7/8.
34. Make sure your bandname is either a a)Oxymoron
-Silent Noise -Tender Harshness -Healing Gun
b)Some geeky sounding name ripped from some obscure book.
-Deitronus -Tarakoch -Fentaran
or
c)Random combination of at least 2 three-syllable words.
-Eternal Twilight Tranquility(Can`t get much progger than that) -Redolent Arithmetic -Evolution of Vernacular Domesticated
35. Don`t worry about if your band name makes any sense or not. Since 90% of your fanbase is from Brazil and Japan, you can safely ignore conventional English grammar and instead focus on what`s really important: The lyrics(see rule 36).
36. Write deep and ambiguous lyrics.
37. If unable to write deep and ambigous lyrics, include at least one of the following phrases to ensure recognition as lyrical genius in prog circles: "I`m staring towards ascension divine, caught in my own revelation, a nightly mystery of soulburning apparition"
"Mornings` gentle caress, a ray of sunlight enveloping the spirit of the sleeper ventriloquist"
"A timid, palatable genocide, turn towards the decline of mankind, the festering wound of ages past changes into the soul-spirit of vestigial sentences"
38. Use a non-standard instrument like violin, saxophone or kazoo, regardless of how idiosyncratic it turns out to be. This constitutes being prog.
39. Make sure your bass-player has as many strings as possible. Don`t worry if he uses approximately three of the 11 strings on his custom Carvin 30 kg bass regularly, just give him a bass solo in the middle of your mandatory instrumental tune(more on that later)where he can really show the extent of his instruments capabilities. Imagine the range of scales on an instrument like that!
40. Release a live-album called "Live in Tokyo".
41. Change time signatures. Constantly.
42. Accuse anyone who does not do so of lacking musical intelligence and not being a true progressive musician.
43. Your amp MUST be a Mesa Boogie. If a friend of yours tries to convince you're wrong and you should check out his Marshall tell him that his tone is thin and buzzy.
44. State that Metallica can't properly tweak the boogies. They're so... unprog!
45. Start a Dream Theater cover band with friends just starting out playing instruments. Spend half of the rehearsal talking **** about punk bands and how people don`t understand your music.
46. Play a ****ty version of a humongously difficult DT song at a Battle of the Bands-type contest. Metropolis Part 1 or Dance of Eternity are both good choices, as is Erotomania.
47. When your band ends up last, shift all blame over to the judges; hey, they have no idea what good music is! Why else would they let that boring pop band win?
48. Talking about starting playing an instrument; always start with the most technically difficult song you know. Remember, this is a testament to your immense talent, so be sure to mention this on every internet community you happen to frequent.
49. When are you able to play something at half speed very sloppy, proudly state that you "nail" the song in question.
50. People are bound to ask for a recording of the feat mentioned in rule 49. However, you are not able to provide it to them, because a) your recording equipment got dissolved by digestive acid yesterday, b)you don`t need to prove anything to people. Your word should be good enough c) you don`t know anything about computers(even though you sit by one most of the day), as you spend most of your day practicing your instrument.
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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 00:43:09 -0400 From: "Dan Costello" <Iluvatar@twcny.rr.com> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: 101 Rules of Prog, pt 2 Message-ID: <BOEAJJBDNFPALMNMJONIIEELCEAA.Iluvatar@twcny.rr.com>
51. Tool is NOT prog. If anyone insists they are, kill them.
52. Hate Falling into Infinity. If the feeling that you actually enjoy FII(even the "proggier" songs like TOT)sneaks up on you during a glitch of concentration, remind yourself that DT sold out.
53. Actually, state that DT sold out on every good occasion. This means every time their name is mentioned.
54. Don't be John Arch. Insist that any pre-Alder Fates is 100% not prog.
55. Do not move on stage. Don`t under any circumstances forget that nobody at prog concerts pays attention to the audience, including the band.
56. The best songs are those that are over 15 minutes, have multiple named sections, and have solos by everyone in the band INCLUDING the drummer.
57. Accuse anyone who disagrees with you regarding rule 56 of lacking musical inteli...Yeah, you`ve got it now, haven`t you?
58. Never ever under any circumstances say "Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence ruled."
59. Never let anyone tell you that Dave Weckl is better than any prog metal drummer. If they still insist, don`t kill them, but rather put on the Mike Portnoy drum solo from 1993`s "Live in Tokyo" vid, which still today is the benchmark for good drumming, REGARDLESS of genre.
60. It would still be a good idea to have that gun ready, though.
61. Drummers: Huge kits are MANDATORY!!!! If all you have is a 4-piece with 3 crappy cymbals, then you don't belong on stage. A 5-piece single bass drum kit is the bare minimum and even that's on the edges of bare bones. If you have a tiny kit BUY MORE DRUMS AND CYMBALS!!!!!!!
62. No, 6 toms are not enough, MORE DRUMS AND CYMBALS!!!!
63. Reform with old members and release an album intended to make up for years of bad reception from fans (see Yes) or claim your next album will be a return to past glory (see Queensryche). If it flops, be sure to blame a producer or record company.
64. When someone asks you why prog metal isn`t more popular if it is so darned good, tell them that it is because "it is over the mainstream peoples heads".
65. Talent = Technical skill. Hail any band with lightning-speed solos for their immense talent.
66. Publicly state that your band is non-religious, then make many religious and/or spiritual allusions in the lyrics.
67. Stress your openmindedness. State that you like all forms of music, except lower forms of music like pop, rock `n roll, blues, techno, trance, rap.
68. Accuse fans of the aforementioned genres of not being openminded.
69. Get a Kurzweil. As the undisputed <<>>, Jordan Rudess plays it, you have no choice but to get one yourself, no matter what synthezisers you actually like. ALL BOW TO THE MIGHTY 88-KEY <<>> KURZWEIL!!!
70. ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNO-KURZWEIL!!!!(Futuruma fans will know what I`m talking about)
71. Show off with your equipment. Show off with your playing/singing. Show off with your *ahem* length. Show off with your girlfriend. Show off with anything you can think of. Show off with your DOG for god's sake.
72. Get a dog.
73. Play air-drums or air-guitar at concerts. This will make sure that other prog fans recognize your immense talent.
74. Stuck in song-writing? Insert a part with a slow single-note gallop rhythm where the singer yells "ENTER THE SUUUNNNNNNNN" several times.
75. Note that you can substitute "ENTER THE SUUUNNNNNNNNN" for either of the following: "FATHER, MY ADOLESCENCY IS AGONNNNNYYYYYYY" or "THE APPARITION DIVIIIIIINNNNEEEE". All three are suitable choices.
76. What do you mean, you haven`t trigged your bassdrum?
77. Remember, faster=more progressive. Slow songs cannot be progressive, best example would be Pink Floyd.
78. If anyone says PF are prog, kindly refer them to rule 1 while you prepare to do a "Varg", so to say.
79. During recording, make sure that you accuse the producer, the recording engineer and half of your band of not playing the song properly at least once. 80. Make sure your album cover contains either a psychedelic computer-drawn image, a lavish painting with mythological figures, or is illustrated by Travis Smith.
81. Write epics.
82. In case you didn`t know, epics must be about adolescency, concerning a legend, or a deep dystopian tale where a cheesy fictional city/world/pizza shop serves as a metaphor for this world.
83. Have racks with loads of equipment.
84. Have racks without equipment. Who is going to see them if you don`t display them?
85. No intro for your song? Insert a single-note broken rhythm accented on the snare, with shifting keyboard chords underneath.
86. Refuse to lend prog CDs to mainstream friends. When asked why, tell him/her that (s)he "will understand when (s)he matures"
87. When playing ANY gig, from the lowliest bar to the most gargantuan arena, be sure that no member of the audience will leave without having heard every lick you are able to play.
88. Have at least 5 solo spots during a concert.
89. In case you have forgotten while reading this, prog metal is intelligent music for intelligent people.
90. No, Marillion is not prog. I kindly refer you to rule 20.
91. BOOOM!!!
92. Buy new albums from past prog-greats.
93. When they turn out to be crap and nothing like the old albums, hit yourself in the head with a hammer until you like them.
94. Hold that there is no bad prog, only DIFFERENT.
95. Of course, that only applies to bands you like. See Rule 1.
96. In case you wondered, Dream Theater is and will always be the benchmark for prog metal. The more something sounds like Images and Words, the more progressive it is.
97. Proclaim Rule 96 to people with a straight face in all seriousness. This is not optional.
98. Have side-projects. Make sure that all side-projects consist of pointless jamming over endless repetitions of clicheed riffs.
99. Make sure that at least one of your side-projects feature Mike Portnoy on drums.
100. If you cannot get Mike Portnoy, get someone who sounds like him.
101. You mean you have been reading this when you could have been practicing along to Metropolis Part II or composing a sidelong epic? For shame!!!!
-Dan.
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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 03:52:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Jonathan Roberts <danthar@yahoo.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: DT Keyboard Sounds Message-ID: <20030710105220.91745.qmail@web40906.mail.yahoo.com>
--0-2113190721-1057834340=:90833 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Sherinian actually ran his CX3 through a guitar processor then into the leslie. That's where he got most of his overdrive from. That has got to be one of the 'chunkiest' organ sounds I've heard. Jon Roberts Keyboards-Shadow Image www.shadowimage.net
--------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! --0-2113190721-1057834340=:90833 ---YTSEJAM FILTER: Rest of message skipped because of attachment
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 6590 ************************** === Contributions to ytsejam: ytsejam@torchsong.com === === Send requests to: ytsejam-request@torchsong.com === === More information at: http://www.dreamt.org/local/ytsejam.php === === Brought by the ghost of ytsejam@arastar.coms past === === Reach the owner of this list at: ytsejam-owner@torchsong.com ===
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