YTSEJAM Digest 781
Today's Topics:
1) What is Prog
by 91laujon@wave.scar.utoronto.ca (LAU JONATHAN)
2) Re: definitions...
by William Wright <wwright@galaxy.galstar.com>
3) Re: progressive?
by William Wright <wwright@galaxy.galstar.com>
4) Re: LaBrie's Singing
by William Wright <wwright@galaxy.galstar.com>
5) HELP!
by A Humble Dream Theater Fanatic <polzin@glibm11.cen.uiuc.edu>
6) Wake Up CD
by Joseph Kruger <krjoseph@freenet.columbus.oh.us>
7) Portnoy- Hot Sticks??
by kwerner@holli.com (Kevin Werner)
8) etc..
by Michael Van Opstall <mavanop@grfn.ORG>
9) I'm confused...
by Timo Haanp{{ UPR <thaanpaa@ra.abo.fi>
10) Computer problems :P
by AirDance@aol.com
11) Oops! Almost forgot. :)
by AirDance@aol.com
12) God created Tim (and MOST of the rest of the 'jammers,
by "GENE (IT'S GOOD TO BE THE KING) SZUCS" <SZUCSEUE@udavxb.oca.udayton.edu>
13) Extreme & Gilbert
by alfredo.cappello@galactica.it (ALFREDO CAPPELLO)
14) Re: Vai's new one
by Alex Skolnick <neviacka@students.uiuc.edu>
15) Reflections Of Ytseality
by Steve Borzilleri <silenzio@elwha.evergreen.edu>
16) quite a quote question
by Hailey <pass@u.washington.edu>
17) MELODIC MINOR.
by Alex Lifeson <TRMD@grove.iup.edu>
18) 16/9
by kbibb@arastar.com (Ken Bibb)
19) All this talk about Progressive
by Elliott Kim <milkman@wam.umd.edu>
20) Re: YTSEJAM digest 780
by NSMCG8426@ALPHA.NSULA.EDU
21) Progressive debate...
by Brian M Polka <rycher@ksu.ksu.edu>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 16:42:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: 91laujon@wave.scar.utoronto.ca (LAU JONATHAN)
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: What is Prog
Message-ID: <9504102042.AA25329@wave.scar.utoronto.ca>
Let me toss in my 2 cents on that "Definition of Progressive" thread.
If you look in a recent issue of Guitar Player magazine you'll
actually find an article on Progressive Rock music.
This is how the guy who wrote the article defined Progressive...
1. Band has a wierd name or a name that's somewhat hard to pronounce.
2. Album cover features gnomes, elves, dwarves, and/or some
spacey sci-fi thing.
3. Some songs are over 10 minutes.
4. Songs are arranged into Chapters, Movements, or Parts.
5. Frequent tempo or time signature changes. Sometimes more
than once a minute.
I think there was more to the definition. This is all that I can
recall because I don't have the magazine in front of me.
I think DT fits some of the criteria above.
BTW, can people keep their posts to less than 80 characters/line!!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 15:49:46 -0500 (CDT)
From: William Wright <wwright@galaxy.galstar.com>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Re: definitions...
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9504101527.A29416-0100000@galaxy.galstar.com>
On Sun, 9 Apr 1995, Rycher wrote:
> I nearly fell to the floor after reading an article posted by William
> about his definition of prog rock. Through his eyes, a song can only be
> progressive if the song is "complex." WHAT??? A time sig of 13/8 does not make
> a song prog. Give prog rock more credit, man!
Uh... no. :) Actually I said the exact OPPPOSITE of that. I said that
while having strage time signatures does sometimes make a song complex
that isn't the ONLY thing. I then went on to mention other things that
can make a song Progressive. Someone told ME that since Another Day and
Surrounded have time signatures like 4/8, 5/4, etc. that they were
Progressive.
>
> Don't you think that intense emotion and meaningful lyrics play a
> major role in prog. rock? DT is progressive, not "semi-prog" like you
> previously stated! Mike Portnoy, himself, has told us that it is not their
> intent to play complex- it just happens. Their intent is to relay their
> message, using whatever tools are necessary. Why is DT progressive? Because of
> their remarkable ability to relay emotion and meaning, musically, to the
I know many pop, alternative, and rap artists that display emotion in the
songs. In fact, some people might even cut DT down on the LACK of emotion
because they always equate techinique with no emotion, only notes.
So, just playing with emotion doesn't make the band progressive.
> audience. It's not very musical to play perfect machine like songs all
> time. Thats not prog music! Dream Theater's is because they have the musical
Yeah I know, that's Rush. :)
> Just because you don't think Pull Me Under is written like
> Metroplois does not mean it's not progressive. Listen to the lyrics! Do you
But Pull Me Under is more of a METAL song than a Progressive song. They
had a metalish song in mind when they wrote it. It's very obvious. When
you compare it to typical "Progressive Songs" that everyone thinks of
(Close to the Edge, Karn Evil 9, Supper's Ready, Thick as a Brick, etc.)
you can plainly see that it really bares no resemblence to these songs in
ANY way. (except perhaps the fast playing, which there are much more fast
playing in other dream theater songs, and they have some "non standard"
time signatures) And I'll be the first to admit, yes, Close to the Edge was
written in the 70s, it is ROCK (not metal) song, and it is a 70's song.
But it just has elements "defines" Progressive rock that Pull Me Under
lacks. And again I'm not saying Pull Me Under is a bad song, it just
isn't one of their Progressive songs.
> think DT would have gotten their message across in Another Day, Surrounded, or
> Silent Man if they added in a million meter changes and made them very
> difficult to play?
I believe they could. I know many bands that have.
>
> Dream Theater is progressive because they are musically advanced
> enough to be able to take advantages of many styles to add the element of
> emotion to their lyrics. When needed, DT is technical monsters (amazing!!) and
> other times DT uses simplicity to envoke the right emotion to the songs
> message! THATS PROGRESSIVE!
Well... that is one definition. But to say they're progressive because
they can play non-complex songs and provoke an emotion just doesn't cut
it. The reason why Dream Theater is Progressive is because they wrote and
can play Metropolis and Take the Time and Learning to Live, and AMBI.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 16:17:17 -0500 (CDT)
From: William Wright <wwright@galaxy.galstar.com>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Re: progressive?
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9504101650.B29416-0100000@galaxy.galstar.com>
On Mon, 10 Apr 1995, Alex Lifeson wrote:
> Brian Nielsen wrote:
> >The only thing one can conclude from this is that YOUR definition of
> >progressive music is the use of non-standard time signatures.
>
> Actually, I was just trying to seperate TSM, Surrounded and songs such
> as that from 'pop' songs. I mentioned other things, such as chord
> progressions, and there are MAYN other progressive elements in these songs, I
> was just mentioning one to give an example. And, yes, peoples deifnition of
> progressive will differ, but I still say that a band is either progressive, or
> not progressive. Not inbetween. And that is the point that I was trying to
> make. briaN
Where are all the progressive elements??? Lets see here.
Where is the LACK of a chorus?
Or for that matter, where is the LACK of words?
Where is the strange insturmentation? (violins, flutes, mellotrons, no
guitar)
Where is the changing keysignatures thoughout the whole entire song (not
just once)
Where is a LACK of chord progressions, NO chord progressions, just a
violin solo?
Where is the counterpoint played by the bass and organ?
Where is the "quote" of Holst's Mars?
Where is the jazz-drumming style put with a classical melody?
Where is the time signature of 17/4?
Where is the use of multiple singers all each singing different melodies?
Where is the the 7 minute guitar, mellotron, electronic violin break?
Where did the other 32 minutes of the song go?
Where are the strange vocal effects?
Where is the 3 minute BirdChriping Intro?
When does the singer ramble on for 3 minutes about how he almost got
killed while trying to record something for the record?
Where are the inaudible voices in the background?
Where is the use of two drummers, each playing in different time signatures?
Where is the new innovative use for a guitar?
Where is the obvious want for the song never to have any commercial
appeal at all?
No progressive song has ALL the aforemention things, but most have at
least 2 or 3. And Another Day has none.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 16:20:06 -0500 (CDT)
From: William Wright <wwright@galaxy.galstar.com>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Re: LaBrie's Singing
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9504101650.C29416-0100000@galaxy.galstar.com>
On Mon, 10 Apr 1995, Lazarus - aka Simon Smith wrote:
> William Wright <wwright@galaxy.galstar.com> wrote:
> >
>
> IMHO, Geoff _used_ to not have to force the high notes. Nowadays, he's
> not as polished. Just compare the early QR stuff to Promised Land. This
> is true even more so live. When I saw QR in Glasgow a few weeks back,
> Geoff was struggling in places (especially on Someone Else). They still
> put on a damn good show though and considering it was the first night of
> the world tour, they can probably be forgiven for slight imperfections....
>
> I also prefer James' voice, if only for the extra power he has over Geoff.
Really? I guess the smoking finally cought up with him. That's too bad.
He sounded fairly good on Promised Land. But I think Geoff has/had more
power than James does... James tends to scream live. (of course, maybe
Geoff does too. I've never heard anyone say otherwise.)
> Try holding the "Running low...." at the start of Iron Maiden's "Hallowed
> Be Thy Name". I can just make it, but then I'm only a backing vocalist
Never heard of it.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 16:26:11 -0500 (CDT)
From: A Humble Dream Theater Fanatic <polzin@glibm11.cen.uiuc.edu>
To: ytse jam <ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com>
Subject: HELP!
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.90.950410162323.16475A-100000@glibm11.cen.uiuc.edu>
I'm working on a new section to my web page. Since i have only one
bootleg cd and one tape, i was wondering if people could give me help on
somehting. I would like to add a section with suggestions as to how good
a certain boot is. If at all possible it would be much appreciated.
Some suggested categories: Sound quality, vocals, overall grading, etc.
Can you please email the responses to be personally and again, hopefully
this projecgt will be successful. thanks.
Ed Polzin
WWW: http://www.cen.uiuc.edu/~polzin/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 17:15:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Joseph Kruger <krjoseph@freenet.columbus.oh.us>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Wake Up CD
Message-ID: <Pine.3.07.9504101732.A3762-b100000@acme>
This is a two CD set. The set list printed on the CD shows:
CD-1
1. PMU 9:20
2. 6:00 5:45
3. TTT 14:28
4. CIAW 9:26
5. LSOAD 5:54
6. instrumental 5:27
CD-2
1. instrumental 3:24
2. The Mirror 6:46
3. Lie 6:51
4. JM happy bday 1:14
5. AD 4:44
6. Erotomania 6:43
7. Voices 12:06
8. TSM 4:12
9. Metropolis 10:41
The CD is a bootleg from a live radio broadcast of the 1/24/95 show at
Saitama Japan.
The sound quality is pretty good. Since I don't have any other bootlegs I
can't provide a comparison to any others using a Michael Burstin type
grading scheme.
I'm no expert in the names of rare DT instrumentals, but
track 6 on CD 1 is a great guitar solo. It seems to be chopped off at the end.
At the end it turns into a full band instrumental that I am guessing is
continued at the start of CD #2.
There is a great keyboard solo in the middle of TTT.
James' voice seems to crack numerous times through out the concert. From
what I read, this seems to be normal.
Overall, its well worth $50 for a DT fan.
Joe
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 95 17:54 EST
From: kwerner@holli.com (Kevin Werner)
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Cc: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Portnoy- Hot Sticks??
Message-ID: <m0rySLu-000AKmC@walnut.holli.com>
Hey Jammers!
This goes out to all the drummers out there:
>> Anyone ever caught one of Portnoy's sticks?
>> Bafu Vai
> Actually, no - He handed me one. =)
> It's a purple Tama powerstick.
In the sleeve for Awake there is a "Hot Sticks" logo in the endorsement(?)
area. Which does Mike really use? I would hope the powersticks. IMHO, Hot
sticks are pretty low quality compared to the other sticks on the market.
They were pretty popular when I was in Jr. High though; probably due to the
large selection of colors.
Has Mike been featured in Modern Drummer yet? Mentioned? I saw an ad for
Mapex, anything else?
I know this has been posted a few times recently, but, can someone please
fill us new Ytsejammers in on how to get a shirt? It would be greatly be
appreciated!!
See Ya - Kev
==================================================================
Kevin Werner kwerner@holli.com
Kokomo, IN
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 19:21:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Van Opstall <mavanop@grfn.ORG>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: etc..
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.90.950408084351.7141A-100000@freenet.grfn.org>
Yeah, I know I got the key sig. wrong, I wasn't thinking straight. I'm a
huge musical theorist too, so just ignore what I said about modes, I
couldn't put what I really meant into good words. The song is in E minor.
For whoever asked about how to [lay the beginning - its like this:
there's a B A B thing and after each B there is a quiet low E, later when
..oh never mind, I can't explain it in words.
It's nice to know that now we discriminate on the list by people's ID's,
but I'm not going to say anymore 'cause I don't want to encourage this
mindless fighting. I personally think Ed (slick) is cool even though he
changed his name.
Red eyes intentional? OK.
I'll take a crack at SDV if people are that interested. What the heck...
I agree about the part about J. Myung working hard on stage. I just
wonder if he ever experiences sting muting due to the length of his hair.
How do you wash all that stuff. BTW, anyone know what size shoes he
wears? everytime I've seen him or a picture of him he's wearing the
biggest boots or shoes I've seen. Or are his legs just real thin.
BTW - the tab for Erotomani (including bassline) was in the Jan 95 GW.
CIAW was in the Jan 95 GS, TTT was in the Mar 94 GFTPM, etc.
Concerning John Petrucci and Voices - I actually think for a while, JP
was one of the more spiritual members of Dream Theater. His songs reflect
moral values (FiL, Status..., Killing Hand, TOWHTSTS) on WDADU. DO NOT
confuse this with religion like someone did last time I said this. Also
if he is the character speaking in Voices and TSM, it is stated that he
had a religion before. Maybe he still does, as the demons in his head
told him to leave, but he seems to think it might not be a good idea.
Just my opinion, there's a lot of holes in it. But a real question: in
the lyrics for Voices, the last line "Don't expect your own messiah..."
is NOT in quotes like the lines from the voices were previously. If this
is not indeed a quote from the Voices, I believe this is the first time
DT actually addressed its audience in the second person in a song.
Yes I think OAMT is great!
M.A. VanOpstall
mavanop@grfn.org
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 01:01:17 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Timo Haanp{{ UPR <thaanpaa@ra.abo.fi>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: I'm confused...
Message-ID: <199504102201.BAA21818@aton.abo.fi>
Well, am I the only one here DOESN'T think Pavarotti and
Carreras aren't that good singers. They have strong,
trained voices, but I really really don't like the way
they sing, so why would I rank them up there with
Geoff and James? :)
Traditionally, operatic singers don't "project" with
their voices, the tone is the same all the time. They
don't "use air" like James in Wait for Sleep. They don't
do little nice things like the "ooh-ohh" in the beginning
of Another Day. And listen to beginning the word "ashes" in
the same song.. I like that kind of little things, which
you'll never really hear in an opera. They'd be considered
mistakes. I think they're the kind of things that bring
life to music.
Listening to singers who don't do any of this is like
listening to guitar players who don't bend, slide, do
'rakes' or anything.
And all this IMHO. Don't flame me you die-hard opera fans. I
know you're there. :)
No, this is not really a long post. It's just your imagination.
And the margins.
Timo
-- ** Timo Haanpaa * Turku, Finland * Don't forget to SMILE! * Dream Theater! **------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 19:58:05 -0400 From: AirDance@aol.com To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Computer problems :P Message-ID: <950410195732_78618257@aol.com>
Hi everyone,
It seems that the modem in my computer has gone haywire, so I haven't been able to sign on for the past week or so. :P (I'm typing this on my roommate's computer at work right now.) I'll be back on-line soon, but I figured I should let you all know that I wasn't dead or anything before someone decided to call 911. :)
I should have this little problem fixed within a week (hopefully!), but since I'm here, I thought I'd go ahead and send the updated & final dub site list ("about time!" they said :). For any of you who've e-mailed me over the past week or so, I was just able to check my mail for the first time today, so be patient & I'll get back to you as soon as I am able!
Dub site list, coming up next!
Take care everyone,
Jennifer <airdance@aol.com>
"You'll never make it. Go back to Liverpool." - Decca record company executives to The Beatles, 1962 :)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 21:06:43 -0400 From: AirDance@aol.com To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Oops! Almost forgot. :) Message-ID: <950410201543_78642159@aol.com>
Me again,
I don't know if this has been mentioned on the list yet or not (because I haven't seen it in a week because of my stupid 'puter :), but Mike Portnoy is on the cover of the new issue of "Drum!" magazine (April/May '95 issue), a free music paper that's available locally here in CA. :) It's a great interview w/details on all of his gear, so I'll try to type it in when I get back on-line. :)
I picked up several extra copies of this magazine (hey, it's free! ;), so I'd like to give them away to some YJammers. :) I want to do this fairly, so I think I'll post a question to YJ & the first 10 people to answer it correctly win copies. How's that? :) I'll post the question as soon as my modem gets fixed.
Take care everyone,
Jennifer <airdance@aol.com>
"You'll never make it. Go back to Liverpool." - Decca record company executives to The Beatles, 1962 :)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 21:30:18 -0400 (EDT) From: "GENE (IT'S GOOD TO BE THE KING) SZUCS" <SZUCSEUE@udavxb.oca.udayton.edu> To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: God created Tim (and MOST of the rest of the 'jammers, Message-ID: <01HP6SBNVW36000ZLL@udavxb.oca.udayton.edu>
Two things: (1)- Who the hell is the fool flaming Tim like that?!! Now I know that I don't know him that well, but we have mailed a few times, and I think it's pretty safe to say, that he is NO CROOK!!! I bet he was REALLY fucking happy when he woke up one day, checked his mail and saw "Tim LOdge Sucks!!! Really smart, moron. YOu should've AT LEAST talked it over with him till you proclaimed to all around and above that you think he cheats. I bet you didn't even think that just MAYBE some other factors were involved other than the man himself. Geez, when are you people going to learn that flaming is NOT TO BE TAKEN LIGHTLY on th net. Now if I'm wrong (God forbid), I apologize, but I think I speak for most of the jammers when I say I'm not. (2)- Now I also know that there are a lot of Pantera fans out on cyberspace that have a lot of respect for the band, and I can accept that, although I particularly don't share the same belief. As a musician and as a listener, I don't care for them, and I hope that everyone can accept my opinion, as I do theirs
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eugene E. Szucs | "If You Pick Up The Beat | "Animation Breathes A | ::::::::: UniVersity of | You Can Forget About | Cloudless Mind, | Dayton********* | The Heat" | Fascination leaves | *************** | @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ | The Doubting Blind" | szucseue@udavxb.oca.udayton.edu| -Rush | -Dream Theater |
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 95 16:04:00 +0100 From: alfredo.cappello@galactica.it (ALFREDO CAPPELLO) To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Extreme & Gilbert Message-ID: <8A723C4.0001026730.uuout@galactica.it>
About the new (?) EXTREME's Drummer. His name is Mike MANGINI, he is the drummer of EXTREME from the MAY of 1994, he also played on ANNIHILATOR's "Set the world on fire".
About Paul Gilbert "Tribute to Hendrix", you can find this on CDbootleg, was recorded the 2nd june 1991 at the Frankfurt Jazz Festival. Is taken from the PRO SHOT of the show, but is different because the bass was recorded and mixed by another guy: Horst Polland. I don't know why this pal played bass on the cd, I also have the tv shot and bass is OK. BTW, Paul is singing all the songs.
bye Alf
* Q-Blue 1.0 *
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 20:49:59 -0500 (CDT) From: Alex Skolnick <neviacka@students.uiuc.edu> To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Cc: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com> Subject: Re: Vai's new one Message-ID: <Pine.Sola.3.91.950410204436.5889B-100000@ux5.cso.uiuc.edu>
I personally feel that Vai is perfectly fine without a singer. His style of music calls for him to be allowed to wander and explore strange new sounds that all happen to be in key. A singer forces Vai to reign his talent in because a singer's voice does not have the capablities a guitarist can have, especially one of Vai's caliber(unless you're Mariah Carey). I haven't heard the new Vai album, but I think that "Passion and Warefare" was a better album than "Sex & Religion." I hate comparing these two album because they are so different. Without a singer Vai can "fool-around" more, but with a singer he can convey more emotion. I think, from a musician's standpoint, Vai without a singer is better, but that is my personal opinion.
Alex Skolnick
I was told if you dream of the next world You'll find yourself swimming in a lake of fire. -Dream Theater
Trent Reznor is a great guy, but their audience sucks. -Peter Steele
Wow, This microphone smells like tuna fish!!!! -Peter Steele (Commenting on stage about playing after a lesbian dance act while touring with Nine Inch Nails and Fem 2 Fem) Shut-up, Drop the gun, and give me a pack of Tropical Fruit Bubble-licious!!! -Will Smith in the movie "Bad Boys."
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 20:10:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Borzilleri <silenzio@elwha.evergreen.edu> To: Dream Thespians <ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com> Subject: Reflections Of Ytseality Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9504101919.A12172-0100000@elwha.evergreen.edu>
There seems to be a running debate about what the definition of "progressive music" is. All I have to say about that is: progressive is as progressive does. AND ON THAT NOTE....
1. Okay, no more Gump-isms. (sorry Steve!)
2. Steve Z: nice sig! "SpontanUity!" har har har! I love that line. Speaking of your sig, Steve, it just might contain the only acceptable description of Dream Theater's music, quoting from the world's biggest Dream Theater fan: "Balls and chunk is where it's at."
4. Chris: Who is Lou Gramm?
5. Tim: you know someone with a vocal range an octave wider than James'? I don't know what James can do off the albums, but he sings from low A an octave below middle C ("he used to say to *me*" --Voices) to high F ("whoah-ah-*haaaaaaaow!* --Learning To Live). Hmmmm.... That means that this person can sing not only an octave lower than that A, which makes their voice deeper than Billy Sheehan's(!), but an octave higher than high F, which makes their voice higher than the lead vocalist from Stryper! Is this person male or female? Either way that's a pretty inhuman vocal range! I applaud such ability!
6. Alex: DT live? Where are you going to see them? If it's outdoors, don't bother. Make sure it's a small theater with tight acoustics. Arenas would ruin their sound from reverberation alone! They have such a tight style of play with so many intricacies, it would all be lost in a large auditorium. Ex: Myung's little solo from "Metropolis" would muddle to hell in a large place, whereas a small theater generally keeps all the echos and muddling to a minimum, not by its soundcrew but automatically by its shape/size.
Anyway, live they are spectacular! They are one of the few bands around who cover their material note-for-note, dead-on performances. And if you're lucky, James won't feel energetic and won't run around and holler at the audience to "Make some noise peo-PAAAAAL!" and his voice will be relaxed...'cause when he's on, he's ON! Other than that, in terms of improvising and other oddities...you know, Dream Theater shows are like a box of chocolates... ;>
7. David: On the topic of Steve Vai, and I cannot believe I have never seen ANYONE write this ANYWHERE before, or maybe it's because no one but me has noticed... On the song "Rescue Me Or Bury Me," it's Steve Vai singing! Not Devin Townsend! Whooh! Good to get that off my chest. And I must admit he's got the edge on Satch in that department! As for "Alien Love Secrets" being only 33 minutes, take heart, he supposedly has a full-length coming out later this year.
8. Ken Bibb: *clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap!*
9. Marc: hardest DT guitar parts? Well, do you mean hard to the ear, or hard to the fingers? Sure, lots of stuff "sounds" difficult to play, but you can't really know unless you attempt to learn it. As a guitarist that has learned a good bit of Petrucci's material, here are some of my choices for the "most difficult John Petrucci passages": (okay, skip this if you aren't into guitar)
Pull Me Under - the "lightning lick," mini-solo, done twice. Very odd note-timing. This is the ONLY guitar part to my knowledge that Petrucci does not play note-for-note live. I guess he was just improvising when he wrote it, otherwise I'm pretty sure he'd be nailing it exactly in live performances...
Under A Glass Moon - the short, quick riff after "Praying for time to disappear." It's a blur of notes! When they do that song live, that part is purposely slowed down so that the passage sounds coherent! Other than that, the solo. The Petrucci Showcase. This thing is a bastard to get through, and if there is anyone else out there who has, you get a big pat on the back from me! (and some Ben-Gay for your fingers!)
Innocence Faded - the last 13 seconds. Pick up a guitar and try this. Need I say more?
Take The Time - classical doubled synth/guitar line, near the middle of the song, the long instrumental part. Somewhat like the "Innocence Faded" passage mentioned above. Tricky tricky.
In case anyone's wondering, I left out most of the "solos" from songs, because let's face it, they're all pretty challenging! I tried to get the technically devastating "riffs" within the songs, rather than just mentioning every DT song, followed by "solo." For a complete listing of difficult Petrucci stuff, get the permission of the Ytsejam superiors, write me back, and I'll post my thoughts! ;>
Bafu Vai
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Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 20:11:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Hailey <pass@u.washington.edu> To: digest <ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com> Subject: quite a quote question Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.91c.950410200128.163113D-100000@homer12.u.washington.edu>
there is a quote at the beginning of a fortune in lies which proceeds as follows
for the first time in a long time... everything was right in my world... and then I woke up
I just recently caught the sample of that in the middle of the song somewhere
where somebody please tell me I'm dying to know does that sample come from? I'd like to know
thanks
the new and improved analog kid part iii now with spring scent
* r.christopher hailey pass@u.washington.edu * * steal this album: egostatic@aol.com * * -----> the hellcasters: "escape from hollywood" * *---------------------------*--------------------------*
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Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 00:10:58 -0500 (EST) From: Alex Lifeson <TRMD@grove.iup.edu> To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: MELODIC MINOR. Message-ID: <01HP6Y1F4MXE91WZBG@grove.iup.edu>
To Brian J. Wherry, and others confused: Melodic minor has a C# and a D# when you are ascending in the scale. This is NOT what WFS is in. DESCENDING, melodic minor has a C NATURAL and a D NATURAL. AND, if there is one sharp in the key signature, it doesn't HAVE to be E minor or G major. Try C Lydian. Or A Dorian. There are others. But this is just an example. THEREFORE, there are more than just two possiblities for ONE key sig. Brian, please reread what I wrote in my other post, I put the same thing here as I did then. Please read before you post. (LOOK BEFORE YOU LEAP.) Cute, maybe. Truthful? Most definately. You say you're an engineer? I think you shouldn't auit your day job.;)
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Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 22:09:53 +0800 From: kbibb@arastar.com (Ken Bibb) To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: 16/9 Message-ID: <9504110509.AA02979@anthor.arastar.com>
> From: mer@sol.iii.net (Marc Respass) > > > a band doesn't have to write every song in 16/9, and in a Lydian > Anyone who writes in 16/9 should be shot!! (16/9 is not a valid time > signature :)
I didn't write the original, but I thought I would point out that 16/9 *is* valid, just extremely difficult. It's saying that there would be 16 9th notes (that's the tricky part) per measure. You'd probably count it
12345 1234 1234 123 or 123456789 1234567
(or some other really funky thing). This would be extremely difficult without a computerized metronome...
But I agree--the writer should be shot since it's not natural to think in terms of 9s.
-- Ken Bibb "Upon a wave of summer kbibb@arastar.com A hilltop paved with gold jester@crash.cts.com We shut our eyes and make the promises we hold" David Sylvian--"Wave"
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Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 01:10:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Elliott Kim <milkman@wam.umd.edu> To: Dream Theater Mailing List <ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com> Subject: All this talk about Progressive Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.3.91.950411003030.928E-100000@next16pg2.wam.umd.edu>
What is all this talk about DT being progressive or not being progressive? Yeah, they have some 'progressive' sounding passages. Yeah, they have some instrumental parts that are really really heavy metalish. But I think they got the prog tag from the fact that they all are influenced by progressive rock, such as Yes, Kansas, and Rush. Naturally, DT's music will come out sounding progressive at times. Yet, on the other hand, they have their 'metal' influences too. It's a pretty eclectic mix of stuff. They're definitely heavy at times, and not so heavy at times, almost as if to unconsciously keep themselves from being locked into any of the areas they touch on, whether it's the hard rock feel of "Lie" or the thoughtful piano arrangement of SDV.
Somebody, somewhere, recently, in some Ytsejam or another, described progressive music as taking a traditional form and embellishing it, taking it in another direction,etc.. Isn't that what Dream Theater did when they added Kevin Moore to their lineup?!
It would be totally unfair to everyone involved if DT were merely dismissed as a metal band with some chops because they are not merely that. All I know is that they're doing things in their own unique way, that may or may not be evocative of other bands. My first impression of DT was 'metal,' but a second, third, and eventually the 1,963,221,480th time I listend to Images of Nerds, DT became more than just 'metal.'
Their impressive chops preclude playing that goes beyond power chords and wild guitar solos. Perhaps DT could be considered middle ground between progressive rock and hard-rock/metal.
Cheers
Elliott Kim milkman@wam.umd.edu University of Maryland @eng.umd.edu College Park
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Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 21:24:36 -0600 (CST) From: NSMCG8426@ALPHA.NSULA.EDU To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 780 Message-ID: <01HP6SFLUFMW000VBT@ALPHA.NSULA.EDU>
Please take me off the Ytsejam mailing list as it is becoming too much of a hassle to sort through the parts that I am uninterested in, although I commend you on the amount of work it takes to put this out.
Sean Eric McGill
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Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 21:32:11 -0500 (CDT) From: Brian M Polka <rycher@ksu.ksu.edu> To: Ytsejam Newsletter <Ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com> Subject: Progressive debate... Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9504102123.A24028-0100000@abc.ksu.ksu.edu>
Hello everyone,
I have been sitting back and watching this debate over what is and what is not progressive music. I have seen quite a few people say whether or not Dream Theater should be consider progressive or not as well. Hearing all of this I have one question to ask all of you:
If tomorrow someone decided the end all be all label of Dream Theaters music was Alternative or Grunge or Whatever, how many of you would throw all your CD's away and stop listening to their music?
I venture to guess that none of you would because like me, you are fans of the music, NOT the label, that Dream Theater subscribes to. We can debate all day whether a song or record is progressive since it has 9/8 signature or plays in Lydian Mode, but that still doesn't make the music any less than it already is. Whether or not Dream Theater is progressive is irrelavent to the fact that we are fans of their music and labeling it does more to make people avoid it (How many of us without actually hearing the music first would have picked up the CD if we heard a person say Dream Theater was a grunge\alternative band?) So basically what I'm getting at is that: Is Dream Theater progressive?---- Maybe. Is Dream Theater my favorite band regardless?---- Definately.
Just my litttle take on the debate :-)
Brian Polka (Rycher@unix.ksu.edu)
******************************************************************************* *** *** *** This world is spinning around me *** *** "Pull Me Under" The whole world keeps spinning around me *** *** Dream Theater All life is future to past *** *** Every breath leaves me one less to my last *** *** *** *******************************************************************************
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 781 *************************
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