YTSEJAM Digest 1175
Today's Topics:
1) Satch on commercials
by LRW <sir@micron.net>
2) sevens
by LRW <sir@micron.net>
3) Re: "Morbid" Dt songs
by zack@lsil.com (Zack Gemmill)
4) Re: Wait another Minute!!!
by zack@lsil.com (Zack Gemmill)
5) Whoa, Awake for $6?
by Fernando Ma <ma@bigdog.engr.arizona.edu>
6) **Randal Braun Read this**
by kretschmer@bdt.com (Jon Kretschmer)
7) Re: YTSEJAM digest 1174
by Michael Van Opstall <vnopstal@cs.hope.edu>
8) This whole band lineup thing
by The Digital Man <cmerlo@moose.uvm.edu>
9) Re: Promoting Dream Theater
by Robert Quezada <rquezada@monmouth.com>
10) shadow gallery (ndtc)
by Matthew Stewart Rosin <msr7146@tam2000.tamu.edu>
11) Sue Moscardini
by "Andrew Keith Garinger" <garinger@pilot.msu.edu>
12) James's vocals
by zebrowski steven <szebro1@gl.umbc.edu>
13) Re: Craig Newmeyer's comments
by Kyle Mallett <krm95g@timon.acu.edu>
14) intellect & emotion
by Kyle Mallett <krm95g@timon.acu.edu>
15) Re: You May Want To Read This!/Then again......
by coghlanm@ix.netcom.com (Michael Coghlan )
16) replies
by curth@execpc.com
17) NUGGETHEAD
by laussade@enet.net (The Ytsejammer from Hell)
18) Shit.
by laussade@enet.net (The Ytsejammer from Hell)
19) Re: Wait a Minute!!!
by eiagm@eznet.net
20) ACOS review
by eiagm@eznet.net
21) MBVC
by larsh@infinity-online.com (Lars Hellsten)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 14:22:05 -0700
From: LRW <sir@micron.net>
To: 'ytsejam' <ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com>
Subject: Satch on commercials
Message-ID: <01BAC0D1.00831B40@cs010p02.twf.micron.net>
I have noticed that Satch is very popular for commercials. I've heard =
probably ten of his songs used. Most recently Back to Shalabal (sp?) =
on a local commercial and Your My World on the Ironman triathalon last =
week. They edited it alot, but played it for like 10 minutes! I was =
excited.
Craig "We lost our first game" Wuthrich
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 15:28:01 -0700
From: LRW <sir@micron.net>
To: 'ytsejam' <ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com>
Subject: sevens
Message-ID: <01BAC0D1.0320F7A0@cs010p02.twf.micron.net>
I really don't see what the big deal is about not being able to play 7 =
string stuff. Lie doesn't have any top string stuff in it, so you can =
just play it normal with your 6. That's what I do. Sure it doesn't =
sound quite as cool, but that's life. =20
CRAIG=20
peace, love, and Donnie Osmond...
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 95 17:23:19 PST
From: zack@lsil.com (Zack Gemmill)
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Re: "Morbid" Dt songs
Message-ID: <9512030123.AA03411@tengs1.teng>
>
> On the topic of Morbid DT songs, what would you call Space dive Vest? Or
> some sections of ACOS? Come on. Pretty moribd stuff there.
This is true. And I want the music to SDV played at my funeral,
but, for the most part, DT's music is upbeat. Even something
like PMU manages to avoid the angst that characterizes Metallica's
music, or the darkness that pervades the music of Fates Warning
(is there on FW song that isn't dark? hmmm); instead, the
"protagonist" is accepting his fate and is facing it without
fear. No despair here.
ACOS and SDV are probably the only songs that stand out *both*
lyrically and musically as being "dark" or morbid. The melodies
that overlay the music tend to add to this atmosphere. Witness:
The Inevitable Summer--- even though the father is passing on
and telling his son that memories are the one thing that make
us all immortal to others, the melodies that James chooses to
employ in this section offer no hope to the listener.
But, hey! For the most part, DT is pretty upbeat. Who couldn't
listen to "Surrounded" and feel content afterwards.
Zach
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 95 18:24:08 PST
From: zack@lsil.com (Zack Gemmill)
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Re: Wait another Minute!!!
Message-ID: <9512030224.AA04233@tengs1.teng>
>
> i've been reading up on past jams, and it just occured to me that
> one idea has been showing up a lot lately: many don't appreciate dt because
> they don't understand it. this seems to especially be the idea with
> LeBrie's vocals - people tend to not like them because they don't understand
> them.
>
> to me, this seems pretty obnoxious. one does not need to understand
> music to appreciate it. i have absolutely no knowledge of how vocals "work"
> musically, yet i enjoy LaBrie's voice immensely. in fact, my musical
> knowledge amounts to slightly more than squat, but i still love dt. it
> suddenly seems to me that many members of the jam are trying to make
> themselves feel better about loving a band that essentially no one else like
> by saying "Oh, well, everyone else isn't smart enough to understand." this
> pisses me off.
I don't think this is the point that was being made. By "understand,"
I think it is meant that people refuse to relate to the music because
their point-of-view directs their appreciation somewhere else. For
someone to say (I've heard it from some of my "friends"): "Dream Theater
sux!!!" while being unable to give a coherent explanation as to *why*
they "suc" *is* ignorant. Now, those people (mostly the people I see
on a.m.r.) who actually take the time to make rational (or so they
think !>)> arguments supporting their dislike of Our Favorite Band
I would not include in the category of "those who do not 'understand'."
I respect these people's _opinions_, even if I think they are idiots.
I believe that the latter group are those who aren't touched by DT
*emotionally*, while the former group _are_ indeed ignorant because
they outright *refuse* to take the time (pun intended) to begin to
"understand" even semi-complex music. The former group, I would
characterize (unfairly, right?) as being like those MTV listeners
that were described in a recent post.
> yes, dt have endless musical skill. but the music is not an
> academic pursuit! it's emotional! it's art,
Is it? Or is _truly_ great music cold and unemotional. Do you think
there is nothing to that fact there the only two disciplines wherein
one can be considered a "prodigy" are math and _music_? Hmmmm.
> for god's sake, not a question
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Oooo, careful there, (at least you could've capitalized !>)>
> of bizzare time signatures and repeated melodies and blazing 64th notes.
> you can't sit there and say dt is above the enjoyment of the musically
> ignorant, because they aren't at all.
Ok, I see that by "musically ignorant," you mean that one is not
versed in theory (primary level). My definition of the term would
be one who is unable to ever comprehend what is happening
*emotionally* (happy now?) because the music is too complex---
they have a musical "glass ceiling" that prevents them from
comprehending it; therefore, it can never touch them emotionally
because their perception of the music on a secondary level is
sorely lacking. I think of myself as appreciating DT's music
on a hybrid primary/secondary level because I describe myself
as "musically-inclined" (used to play years ago, and I can
still read music, even if I can't play along on that instrument
physically). I'm sure most listeners of prog-rock are even if
they don't know it (you, perhaps?). I listen to the DT demos, and
I am just as moved by the images as I am by the words, even
by songs that I've never heard lyric melodies to (like "Cry for
Freedom"). In short (finally), Those Who Do Not Understand, are
those who are not touched emotionally by the music and are like this
(okay, I'm going out on a limb here) because they have tuned their
emotions to respond to the simple and the mundane.
> long live this misunderstood revolution. -Matt
Zach (I hope some of that made sense)
"Do not choose the quick, and easy way."
"Once you start down the Dark Path, forever will
it dominate your destiny."
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 17:19:27 -0700 (MST)
From: Fernando Ma <ma@bigdog.engr.arizona.edu>
To: Ytsejam List <ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com>
Subject: Whoa, Awake for $6?
Message-ID: <Pine.ULT.3.91.951202171722.21081A-100000@bigdog.engr.arizona.edu>
I was at the local Sam Goody today (suck), but the weird thing was that
Awake was on sale for $6? Is that store the only one, or do all of the
Sam Goodies have $6 Awakes. The really weird thing was that IAW was the
normal $16, and ACoS was like $12.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fernando Ma
ma@bigdog.engr.arizona.edu
Web page: http://bigdog.engr.arizona.edu/~ma
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"How does it feel when you can't concertrate? I just stare."- Our Lady
Peace
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 18:58:07 +0800
From: kretschmer@bdt.com (Jon Kretschmer)
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: **Randal Braun Read this**
Message-ID: <v01510100ace5e16e5312@[206.14.103.54]>
I have been trying to get in contact with you but I lost your email
adress...Please email me...i have some information on WDADU. Thanks a lot.
I am sorry to you ytsejammers for this, I dont usually take up message
space with stuff like this...
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 22:23:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Van Opstall <vnopstal@cs.hope.edu>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 1174
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.90.951202222219.27429A-100000@smaug>
Uh, that quote from the last jam was from Where Are You Now by the
Galactic Cowboys. That's a tough one.
Here's a question: What prog. group did the music that backs up the
skiing scenes in Ski Patrol??
Michael A. Van Opstall -- vnopstal@cs.hope.edu
http://www.cs.hope.edu/~vnopstal/deal.html - try it
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 22:46:53 -0500 (EST)
From: The Digital Man <cmerlo@moose.uvm.edu>
To: Ytse Jam <ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com>
Subject: This whole band lineup thing
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.91.951202221826.38112C-100000@moose.uvm.edu>
I wasn't planning to write about this thread, but I'm noticing that
there's one point that nobody has brought up.
Those of you that are in bands know that it takes a while to develop a
chemistry between the members. I've been through more band-lineup
changes than I care to mention (right, Frank?). Each time the lineup
changes, it seems like the band has to once again start from scratch,
re-learn a whole bunch of songs, ditch all the old cover tunes and learn
new ones, etc., etc. This puts a serious strain on a band's
productivity. Anytime that a band member leaves or joins, a whole bunch
of things happen. Sometimes, the "leadership" of the band changes
hands. Sometimes, the sound of that particular instrument doesn't fit
like the old one did, and some changes have to be made. Sometimes, the
entire sound of the band changes. But everytime, the personal
relationships within the band change - sometimes for the better,
sometimes for the worse. And these personal relationships have a huge
influence on how the members interact musically.
I'm reminded of Jeff Beck's "Guitar Shop" album, which he did with Terry
Bozzio and ... shit, what's his name? Tony something? Anyway, I read an
interview with JB, and he was asked why they didn't bring in a bassist.
He said he didn't want to screw with the chemistry that the three of them
had.
Any lineup change will change the way DT sounds. It did with
Charlie/James, and it did with Kevin/Derek. Now add the
guitar-player's-ego into the equation, and the band falls apart with a
2nd guitarist. I'm trying to think of a band that has gone through a
lineup change that didn't rework their sound a great deal, and I'm drawing
a blank. If DT's lineup changes again, especially in the guitar area, DT
will no longer be what it currently is.
<steps off soapbox>
Um, I didn't mean to get off on a rant, there. I would just hate to see
what DT is change. And a 2nd guitarist (or no keys) would do just that,
and in a big way.
***************************************************************
* Christopher R. Merlo |8^)= *
* The University of Vermont, 211 Jeanne Mance Hall *
* Burlington, VT 05405 U.S.A. *
* cmerlo@moose.uvm.edu http://www.uvm.edu/~cmerlo *
* *
* * Will work for bass strings * *
***************************************************************
P.S. Bafu!
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 1995 00:59:09 -0500
From: Robert Quezada <rquezada@monmouth.com>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Re: Promoting Dream Theater
Message-ID: <30C13CAD.619C@monmouth.com>
Jean-Francois_Cote@INRS-SANTE.UQuebec.CA wrote:
>
> IF the Acoustic dreams dubbers, IF Mike Bahr, and IF the Ytsejam population
> in general give their approbation, i was thinking of offering dub of AD on
> other related mailling list (the extreme and King's X ml) where DT seems
> to be appreciated.
> I choose those two mailling list because they are friendly when compared to
> the Rush and Queensryche(alt.rec-) groups.
>
> I think we can get a couple of new DT fan with this project.
>
> I'm going to contact the AD dubbers soon. And Mike B, e-mail me if you don't
I'm all for it! It doesn't matter to me where you post it. In fact, I
think it's better if we get more people into DT.
rq
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 22:37:59 -0600 (CST)
From: Matthew Stewart Rosin <msr7146@tam2000.tamu.edu>
To: ytsejam <ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com>
Subject: shadow gallery (ndtc)
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.951202223343.25578C-100000@tam2000.tamu.edu>
i just got the shadow gallery CD "carved in stone". all i can say is...
damn! this is incredible songwriting and musicianship! anyone who
hasn't heard 'em yet, check 'em out. most of you probably won't be
disappointed.
still looking for the "lie" single . . . can't seem to get my hands on it.
until later . . .
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
* Matt Rosin * IMAGESCAPE *
* PO Box 15315 * ambient-progressive rock *
* College Station, TX * Matt Rosin: vocals/keys/synths *
* 77841-7315 * ---will be in the studio Dec. '95--- *
* msr7146@tam2000.tamu.edu * ---e-mail for more info--- *
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
web-site coming soon!
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 23:48:10 -0500 (EST)
From: "Andrew Keith Garinger" <garinger@pilot.msu.edu>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com (Ytsejam Mailing List)
Subject: Sue Moscardini
Message-ID: <199512030448.XAA21306@pilot07.cl.msu.edu>
Sorry about the mix-up, GHSRocker@aol.com. I don't know why I remember
your address in connection with Sue. SOMEONE posted about not receiving their
stuff from her. That was the trigger for me to begin mailing Sue regularly
about my tapes. She sent me her bootlist and request for a trade on 10/7 and
I mailed out the tapes on 10/23. In between, we chatted about her boots. I
have every message she mailed me and the last I heard from her was her response
to my first late inquiry. She was very apologetic and I never heard from her
again. Like Kyle, I am VERY SORRY if this is all a big mix-up, but even if
something did go wrong, she shouldn't be trading with anyone new until she
clears up her debts to us. I will post again if she responds, positive or
negative. Until then, I repeat my request for anyone who has traded with her,
successfully or not, to contact me and let me know the details. I am still
considering legal action and I would also appreciate advice from anyone out
there with experience in this area. Sorry for the repost, but I think my last
post was somewhat unclear and incomplete.
Later,
Andrew
P.S. Is there any master list of unreliable traders? There should be. I've
heard a few complaints in the time I've been reading.
--
Andrew Garinger
ZBT BE "(e)NOS"
Certified DT Fanatic
Subcon #254
Acoustic Dreams #60
WDATU #29 (coming soon!)
***DO NOT trade with Sue Moscardini! If a boot list looks too good to be true,
it probably is!***
"It's not enough to succeed; others must fail." --- Gore Vidal
Discover a new band today! Boycott "alternative" radio! Spread the word!
DreamTheaterBadReligionALLDescendentsChinaDrum311SeedHumFretblanketLowPopSuicide
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 23:49:50 -0500 (EST)
From: zebrowski steven <szebro1@gl.umbc.edu>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: James's vocals
Message-ID: <199512030449.XAA19036@umbc9.umbc.edu>
I think James LaBrie is THE BEST thing to happen to metal vocals since
this old Seattle <Bellevue, actually> band came onto the scene a few years
ago. What was their name? I dunno, but the singer's name was Geoff Tate. :)
Here's my take on James, album by album:
Images and Words: smooth as ice, and just as clean...not a lot of emotion
here, but there's not that much in the lyrics that demands great cathartic
emoting <except for AD, Surrounded, and LtL, on which he does so nicely>...
most of the pieces on I&W are mood pieces which basically just paint a
picture...the sound from James is bright and forward and heady...brilliantly
placed in "the mask"...Prater does a fantastic job of burying James's talent--
you can HEAR the gate release as James's breath becomes audible, even on WfS.
Big mistake...also too many effects...the chorus is too heavy <should've just
double-tracked> and the delay time is static--no modulation...another mistake.
Awake: Now these guys can record vocals! Lots of breaths and catches and, my
favorite, the little vocal fry he uses to crescendo into his initial vowel
sounds <"...every Sunday morning...">...the lyrics run the gamut of emotions
and really allow James to perform as not only a singer, but a character as
well...James breathes life into the already strong 6:00 and Voices...the
raspy placement he chooses is not my favorite, but it serves well the songs on
which he uses it...wow.
A Change of Seasons: The best and worst of both worlds...James is in top form
and using his clean voice again, but where he chooses to go for the rasp is
just amazing--a fit of cathartic rage!...unfortunately, he overloads the mic
a few times--not hard with an AKG C414 <probably what they used>, but this
is Prater's fault...as is the noise gate releasing at the most inappropriate
times, and the fact that James is mixed entirely too low on "The Crimson
Sunset"...at least he's not dripping with effects.
Acoustic Dreams: Oh, my God. If only he were a woman...I would be in _love_.
He strains a little, but who wouldn't when trying to sing AD, pianissimo, and
entirely in _chest_ voice!
All in all, James rules.
As for Devin Townsend, there are a few hundreths of a second on the Vai CD that
are just _breathtaking_. For instance, at the end of "Still My Bleeding Heart"
<my favorite on the CD> he lets out this shriek that briefly cracks into
whistle tones. That's amazing. Anyone who has the CD knows what I'm talking
about. Unfortunately, he has no control over it and therefore usually just
winds up with a shrill, raspy scream. When he's not trying to sing beyond his
abilities, he's pretty good and shows good placement and diction, but most of
the CD he's just making pig noises.
That's all. Feel free to respond. See ya!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
___ ___ ___ _ _ ___ ___ "...all that I feel is honor and spite.
| __| |_ _| | __| | V | | __| |_ | ...all I can do is to set it right."
|__ | | | | __| \ / | __| / / Kevin Moore, PMU
|___| |_| |___| V |___| |___|"Of all the stupid things I could have
Steve Zebrowski szebro1@gl.umbc.edu thought this was the worst..."
Joe Jackson, Hometown
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 23:13:23 -0600 (CST)
From: Kyle Mallett <krm95g@timon.acu.edu>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Re: Craig Newmeyer's comments
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.951202225952.22179B-100000@timon.acu.edu>
Since I hate long excerpts from other people's posts cluttering
the jam, I'll just refer to the individual to which I am primarily
addressing (however, I feel this is relevant to a basic conversation which
has been going on, so that is why I'm posting it).
I HAVE listened to a great deal of Trevor-era Yes and I still
don't like it. Within the past year, I have bought and sold copies of
90125937384838383 and Talk. They are more progressive than typical
pop-rock, yes, but they are not progressive in comparrision to old Yes. I
also own the Yesyears box set which has nearly an entire disc devoted to
that era of Yes.
I also do not expect that Trevor Rabin should try to sound like
Steve Howe. In fact, it is not the "sound" of recent Yes that bothers me,
it is the songwriting, for which Rabin is responsible. It sounds like
pop-rock with a progressive slant, at best. But to me it sounds more like
guys who used to really push the musical envelope (the quality of
progressive music which I find most exciting) who have lost their
creativity. The fact that they underwent some personel changes shouldn't
have made any difference. They have undergone personel changes thoughout
their career and no other change made such a drastic difference.
I was also aware of the fact that Jon Anderson did not take part
in the writing of most of the material on 90120 (yes I know that's wrong).
I know that the band was supposed to be called Cinema and the record
company made them change it. I was aware that Trevor Rabin went into it
intending to do his own thing. I still don't like it.
If you want to criticize my taste in music, fine. If you want to
say I suck for saying something sucks, fine. But do not say I have a
closed mind. I already knew everything you mentioned in your post. Even
after I knew I didn't like Trevor Rabin's influence on Yes, I opened my
mind and bought Talk anyway. Like I said in my first post, if the old
Yes didn't exist, I could probably listen to it. I did open my mind, I
gave it multiple chances. Then I opened my mind again to dump that stuff
out.
kyle mallett
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 23:37:14 -0600 (CST)
From: Kyle Mallett <krm95g@timon.acu.edu>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: intellect & emotion
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.951202232147.22179D-100000@timon.acu.edu>
Thoughts on thougths by Matt Sirois (sorry if I spelled this
wrong).
I would have to respectfully disagree with you, in a sense. I
don't think technical ability is secondary to emotion. Recognizing that
there is no formalized measuring stick for the intellect and/or emotion in
music, I think that the two should be about equal. Though such a balance
is obviously subjective, I think a dose of both are necessary to make
truly great music.
Let me state that that I have no musical knowledge or ability to
speak of, though I do listen very closely and I would say that I probably
know as much as I can w/o knowing anything (which is still not much).
Intellect and emotion are two of the primary aspects of life, as
well as the spriritual and physical. The distinctions are undefined, but
present. For me, I find more fulfillment from music that deals with all
aspects of what I consider to be life. That is one of many reasons why I
love Progressive music. Grunge and punk offers in many cases almost pure
emotion, w/little intellect (generalization).
One element of prog. that I have run across is that it can
sometimes be too much intellect and not enough emotion. I'm trying to
think of examples, but can't. One might be Allan Holdsworth. I will
begin by saying that I have heard only selections of his entire repertoir
and I do like his work. However, there does not seem, to me, to be a
great deal of emotion in it. It is very technical and that seems to be
the emphasis.
I believe I'm beginning to repeat myself in regards to concepts.
Basiclaly, it is my opinion that the "best" music balances emotion and
intellect. Thus, you can tell that a great deal of thought and time was
put into writing and playing it as well as a great deal of heart and
emotion into it as well.
In addition to Dream Theater, I think King Crimson is an
excellent example of this.
On a completely unrelated note: does any one know if it is
possibly to breathe in and sing at the same time. I know good horn
players can do it. You blow out on the instrument (huh.) through one side
of your mouth and breathe in with the other. This evidentally takes a lot
of practice and I was just curious if anyone out there knew if it was
possibly to do this while singing. The benefits of doing this would be
obvious, but I'm not sure if it can be done.
kyle
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 23:10:54 -0800
From: coghlanm@ix.netcom.com (Michael Coghlan )
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Re: You May Want To Read This!/Then again......
Message-ID: <199512030710.XAA20296@ix5.ix.netcom.com>
Ryan B. wrote:
>The jam has gone to complete shit! This is complete hell!
You forgot to add IMO.
>of three weeks the jam has deteriorated from inane things to just mindless
>dribble!
You forgot to add IMO.
>Now we are talking about God and moshing. WHAT THE FUCK! Damn, this is
>complete hell!
Moshing granted a trivial subject IMO. God though is a different subject.
Please have respect for the Christians who have input on this list. I won't
say anymore to avoid "preaching".
>Do you people see that this is the downfall of the
>ytsejam? I thought it was bad earlier; it got even worse--much worse!
You forgot to add IMO.
>I feel like I should be really mad or something, but I really can't express
>my feelings right now.
Sounds like you're doing a pretty good job to me. You mentioned something
about excessive banter, talk, text or what have you. If you cut out the
expletives you've used in this post you probably would have reduced the
number of unnecessary content by at least %15.
>Christ man (my God comment)
An offensive one at that. But at least you realize Christ is God.
>People are snipping a whole fucking... What the hell? Damn, is ..... I
>really fucking..... >one fucking post. .....have become shit. >one fucking
>post. to the fucking Trinity ... >all of the other shit that is posted!
WHAT THE FUCK! Damn,....
>Condense man!
Just imagine how much condensing you would have accomplished without the
expletives.
>I mean, I can't even express just how lame all of the post have gotten.
Hmmmm.....
>It
>is like a daily account of personal stories, or about God, or about
>moshing (am I making myself clear). People--that is not Dream Theater!
>Talk about DT and God and how God influenced music of DT. At least that
>would contain some DT stuff! IF you want to defend god go to God-jam or
>to the fucking Trinity network on cable!
Thanks just the same, I feel I use discretion for the most part when I
discuss God on this list. If DT did make so many references to the Bible
and God etc... I probably would have less to say about God in reference to
DT, but the facts stand.
>I just can't help but laugh at the condition the list is in.
Maybe you should laugh instead of rage like you are doing.
>I have all of this stuff that I want
>to say here, but I can't find the words to cover my anger right now.
Seems like you've done an excellent job to me.
>Christ, is this the Rush list that I have heard so much about--I mean is
>this how bad the Rush list got? This lits is garbage! I wish the list was
>like it used to be in its golden day! The list used to kick ass; I wish I
Why don't you say "Budda" or some other god instead of Christ all the time.
Since you know there are Christians on this list you would probably help to
slow down the posts about God. You see when you use God's name like that I
feel compelled to responed, I would be less inclined to if you were not so
offensive.
>In closing--the list now sucks!
You forgot to add IMO. If you don't know how to unsubscribe, write me if
you need instructions on how to do it, I'll be glad to send them to you.
Sorry about the delay in replying to this post jammers. I needed to
consider what I was going to say to Ryan instead of flying off at the mouth.
God Bless,
Michael C.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 01:35:30 -0600 (CST)
From: curth@execpc.com
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: replies
Message-ID: <199512030735.BAA17617@earth.execpc.com>
Hi all,
Well, I still have to read jams 1169 thru the current one, but I just thought
I'd share my thoughts on a coupla threads (as if you really care):
About James singing - I like it though I agree that harmonies would be nice -
look at Queensryche as a good example.
About droppong keyboards - one example - listen to TOWHTSTS on A Kick Into a
Dream and then tell me they don't need keys. HA! Didn't think you could.
About a 6th member/rhythm guitarist - first off, lets not forget that Derek
does know how to play guitar, so I personally wouldn't mind if in a *few*
sections of a *few* songs he would step out from behind the keys and play
guitar especially on covers that they perform that don't have keys (Damage Inc
for example). As to a 6th member to do guitar/keys/vocals I don't think it's
neccessary *but* if they do I would not want it to be one of those touring
members! ARRRGGGHHH! I hate when bands use touring members (Maiden, Yes,
Genesis, etc.) - either make them official members, or play the music yourself
- although they use technology, at least Rush keeps it to a three-piece.
Another idea is for James to learn rhythm guitar. I mean he wouldn't need to
play on all songs, but some would be cool. And no, he wouldn't be in
competetion with JP cuz he's gotta focus more on vocals than the guitar. And
it would give him something to do during those long instrumental breaks.
My $.12
Scott Hansen
curth@execpc.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 02:19:51 -0700
From: laussade@enet.net (The Ytsejammer from Hell)
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: NUGGETHEAD
Message-ID: <199512030919.CAA11060@maple.enet.net>
I JUST WANTED TO LET EVERYONE KNOW THAT NUGGETMAN IS A WORTHLESS PIECE OD SHIT.
Ben Laussade
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 03:06:17 -0700
From: laussade@enet.net (The Ytsejammer from Hell)
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Shit.
Message-ID: <199512031006.DAA11521@maple.enet.net>
Well,
I fucked up in a big way, and will be unsubscribing now. I
apologize to all, especially Nuggetman, Cogy and Paul Cashman. Sorry, bye.
Ben Laussade
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 10:15:48 +0000
From: eiagm@eznet.net
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Re: Wait a Minute!!!
Message-ID: <199512031433.JAA04083@mail1.eznet.net>
> i think a lot of people need to ease up with the idea that dt are good
> because of their ability to play rather than what their music expresses.
> don't ever tell me that people don't like the way Labrie sings because "they
> don't understand it." that, in short, is bullshit.
>
> intelligent response is greatly desired.
If something (like music) doesn't make sense to a person, it is not
likely they're going to enjoy it. I think your post here was in
response to something I said - that many people aren't going to like
things that are difficult or complex because they won't understand
it. You've interpreted my words to mean something I wasn't trying to
say. I didn't mean that if you don't understand vocal theory, or if
you've never trained as a vocalist that you won't understand, and
therefore won't like, LaBrie. What I meant was that to some people,
LaBrie's singing won't make sense.
To clear up the muck of the above paragraph, let me give an
example. So many people talk about music "growing" on them. For me,
this is absolutely true. Something like Metropolis is something I
didn't understand when I first heard it. It didn't make sense, and
to me it WAS noise. However, as I listend more and more, I began to
be able to make sense of what was going on in the piece. This is
what I go through with many of DT's songs. So, you may not have
taken any courses in music theory, and you may not have ever studied
an instrument, but listening to music again and again, you are still
able to "figure" things out, and even learn. So you probably know
more about music than you think, you simply don't know the words, the
terms, etc. You know the music, you have "studied" it. You
understand more and more about it each time you listen.
A singer like LaBrie, a lot of people aren't going to "get" it
if they're not used to his singing style. This is what I meant by
not understanding it.
I hope this made sense :-)
Mike Stover
eiagm@eznet.net
http://home.eznet.net/~spider/spider.htm
"He who can copy, can do" - Leonardo Da Vinci
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 10:23:16 +0000
From: eiagm@eznet.net
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: ACOS review
Message-ID: <199512031441.JAA04143@mail1.eznet.net>
I just wanted to say something about that review of ACOS that someone
posted. Their critique of the song ACOS was that it was
"excessive". I don't understanf what that means - saying something
is excessive is not a critique. Excessive in what way? Was it too
long? Even then, what does length have to do with the quality of a
song? I can think of a few ways in which it was excessive -
excessivley good, excessively complex, excessive thought was put into
its composition - too excessive to be "popular" music.
And what was that about there being no "hook" in the song? What
the hell is a hook, and what is its importance to music? I think the
reviewers were not reviewing music, they were reviewing a potential
commercial product. And as a commercial product, they are probably
correct in giving ACOS a bad review - it indeed probably won't be a
big money maker. But as music, their review was completely
irrelevant.
Furthermore, these types of reviewers would deem Beethoven's
Ninth "excessive" I'm sure.
Mike Stover
eiagm@eznet.net
http://home.eznet.net/~spider/spider.htm
"He who can copy, can do" - Leonardo Da Vinci
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 11:03:48 -0500
From: larsh@infinity-online.com (Lars Hellsten)
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: MBVC
Message-ID: <199512031603.LAA13672@infinity>
> to me, this seems pretty obnoxious. one does not need to understand
>music to appreciate it. i have absolutely no knowledge of how vocals "work"
>musically, yet i enjoy LaBrie's voice immensely. in fact, my musical
>knowledge amounts to slightly more than squat, but i still love dt. it
I disagree. I think what people are saying here, isn't that someone who
doesn't understand the music isn't capable of -liking- it, but that
generally, someone who doesn't like or appreciate DT probably doesn't know
as much about music, or understand their music very much. I thought that
was pretty much a fact that could be taken for granted. Just look. How
many musicians out there do you see who listen to and like bands like Green
Day, Smashing Pumpkins, Hole, and other mainstream alterna-crap? Not too
many I would think. Stuff like that is usually confined to the ignorant
masses, people who don't appreciate finer art. The way I see it is as being
like people who go to an art gallery and see a "painting" that's basically 3
straight lines, and call it "art".
I'm not saying musicians, or peoplke that know a little bit about music are
arrogant, or have huge egos like that, but just that they simply can
appreciate things that ordinary people can't. A lot of people will listen
to a DT song and probably think "it doesn't have a good beat", "the singer
is singing like a girl", "this sucks", not being able to appreciate the
virtuosity of the band and the music.
> academic pursuit! it's emotional! it's art, for god's sake, not a question
>of bizzare time signatures and repeated melodies and blazing 64th notes.
>you can't sit there and say dt is above the enjoyment of the musically
>ignorant, because they aren't at all. i completely admire the extreme
>talent the members of dt posses, but all of that skill is secondary to the
>emotional impact a song has.
But you certainly can't say that mainstream bands these days express much
emotion in their music, when the songs all are loud, and all sound the same.
About the only emotion that's ever expressed is some singer screaming his
head off (what else is new). I find some emotion in simpler stuff like
Queensryche, Metallica, and bands like Tool, etc. But I really don't
understand how people can find "emotion" in music written and performed by
people who don't know how to play their instruments. I find -way- more
emotion and expression in JP's guitar playing or MP's drumming than I'd ever
find in a Nirvana or Green Day song.
Anyway, different strokes. I may as well make this longer. The emotional
impact is secondary to -you-. But I myself listen more to the instrumental
stuff, to JP's shredding, than to emotional songs. The first few times I
listend to ACOS, yet, I got a lot out of it in terms of emotion. But if it
were not for the instrumental stuff, and the band showing their talent, I
wouldn't find myself listening to the song much anymore (and that's also why
I usually find myself listening to the old Subconscious/DOE version
instead). I would probably like DT more if they were all-instrumental, and
all of their stuff was like the break in Metropolis, or LTL, or the old
neoclassical Inevitable Summer in ACOS.
BAFU VAI! Woowhoowoohooo!! ("Required Content")
Ytse-Lars
-- Lars Hellsten <*> "Once I reached for love, and larsh@infinity-online.com <*> now I reach for life" http://infinity-online.com/~larsh/ <*> - Dream Theater------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 1175 **************************
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