YTSEJAM Digest 2008
Today's Topics:
1) music theory
by Pat Sullivan <psull@ici.net>
2) Godot Has Testicular Cancer
by Steve Borzilleri <magellan@u.washington.edu>
3) music theory
by m_washke@acad.lvc.edu (Michael Washkevich)
4) Re: OaMoT, Chris P vs. Bafu, and assholes
by Jim Beavens <jbeavens@ichips.intel.com>
5) Re: music theory
by "IbnzRG570" <ibanez@mailhost.cyberhighway.net>
6) Thanks everyone!
by Kain <kain@caribe.net>
7) re: DT themes for win95
by Jean Francois Cloutier <ebe@videotron.ca>
8) Mike Portnoy Clinic
by Ryan Webb <ryanwebb@earthlink.net>
9) Ytsejam Information
by "Ryan P. Skadberg" <skadberg@wicked.stigmata.org>
10) Psychotic conditions
by Jennifer <jenibear@gvn.net>
11) Just some info that may be of interest...
by Pat Griffin <c675311@everest.cclabs.missouri.edu>
12) Confused?
by durnik <durnik@goodnet.com>
13) Taping Shows
by Chris DiGiuseppe <hed@northnet.org>
14) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2007
by "Andrew Miller" <subtlerage@mail.gnn.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 20:25:35 -0500
From: Pat Sullivan <psull@ici.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: music theory
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19961110012535.0067f704@ici.net>
>I agree wholeheartedly. I write songs, yet most of the time I have my theory
>friend tell me the names of the chords... it seems to give him a kick...
This is sort of in response to the whole discussion, rather than just this
post, but whatever.... :)
It possible to write music without the benfit of a lot of theory knowledge,
but I think it's very difficult to READ music without it. Without a least a
rudimentary understanding of the concepts, you'll have no idea what the
notes and symbols and dynamic markings and whatnot stand for. Reading music
is important for a composer simply because you have to understand music to
write it. As a comparison, think about the percentage of quality authors out
there that are also voracious readers. I would guess that the percentage is
rather high for the same reason.
-----
________Pat Sullivan__________________________________
E-mail: psull@ici.net
WWW: http://www.ici.net/cust_pages/psull/psull.html
IRC: DDictator
NP: Vicious Rumors - "Word Of Mouth"
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 17:59:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Borzilleri <magellan@u.washington.edu>
To: Dream Thespians <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Godot Has Testicular Cancer
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.95b.961109175236.77944A-100000@homer03.u.washington.edu>
> From: Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
> Subject: Fine
>
> I find this kind of "testing" to be immature and self serving.
> What you've stated in your post are terms. Technique is in application.
> If I don't know the name for everything I play, then I concede to you
> that I am perhaps ignorant of some musical terms. I simply haven't had
> an instructor that uses these terms frequently, and get little out of
> reading arcane textbooks that do little for me but expand my vocabulary
> of ancient and unused terms. I prefer to learn by practice. If it
> feeds your ego to know that I don't know these words, then fine. As
> I've stated, I find terms as these to be of no significance in playing
> guitar, or appreciating music. Music is sound.
Hey Chris. There's no such thing as a glissando-stop.
> I will never be heard saying "Listen to that double fanucci! Man, does
> that wail!" I prefer to listen and play... not to name every movement
> of every tendon.
Hey Chris. "Double Fanucci" is the name of one of the puzzles in a game
called "Zork Zero." An ottava is a dotted line written on staff paper
above the treble clef that means "play this an octave higher than
everything else on the treble clef." You write the notes as they would
appear normally but also scribble in an ottava symbol so the person
reading the music knows that the notes are really supposed to be an octave
higher. It's just a space-saving device. There is no "ottava cycle."
I wasn't drilling you on theory, I was spewing bullshit. And I can now
agree with you when you say "sometimes I can get a bit hot-headed."
> > PLEASE LIST THEM.
>
> In saying this you're asking me to be an asshole to players who other
> members of this list may enjoy thoroughly.
Not really. That's not what I'm asking you. I'm asking you to list those
ten shredders, pretty simple if you translate English into English. I
think Vito Bratta sounds like a Diet Eddie Van Halen, even though I prefer
Bratta's playing much much more than Van Halen's. I'm interested in
knowing who you think sounds so much alike, I value that opinion much more
coming from a musician than otherwise. I would expect some casual listener
who doesn't play the guitar to say something like "That MacAlpine, he
thinks he's Malmsteen, blah blah blah," but if someone who actually plays
that genre of music makes that same statement, it MEANS something because
they're musically involved, and I can DISCUSS the issue with that person.
I would never waste such questions on people with only a passive knowledge
of the guitar, I reserve those things for those who possess an active
knowledge. You seem to have an active knowledge, you seem to be someone
who actually plays music regularly and respects it. Let me know if I'm
wrong.
> I refuse to do this in a public post. I've learned from my mistakes.
> I think this is very petty of you to ask of me.
Well thanks, Chris. There's one thing I don't think anyone should ever be
embarrased to do, and that's ask a question.
"One cannot know as a master until one has asked as a fool."
--Yours Falsely
> Do know, that I have little respect for you after having read this, and
> have no urge to feed your ego.
?! How is answering that question "feeding" my ego? What does my ego have
with me not knowing something?
"Excuse me, professor, but did Plato actually study WITH Socrates, or was
he just another one of Socrates' students?"
"Mr. Borzilleri, do know that I have no urge to feed your ego."
> Thank you for making this a beautiful day, Mr. Borzilleri.
Anything for a fellow 'jammer.
Bafu Vai
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 18:44:00 -0800 (PST)
From: m_washke@acad.lvc.edu (Michael Washkevich)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: music theory
Message-ID: <199611100244.SAA23575@pawn.ax.com>
I taught myself out of Metallica and Nirvana tablature books, and have
cracked a theory book maybe three times. This stuff has no meaning
to me, and I don't see how it will help me write anything, or play
anything any better.
Yeah this is a good attitude to have. I'm sure Petrucci would agree with you
100%. I hope your surgeon feels that he doesn't need any of the theory and
he should just rip you open based on what he watched a couple of his friends
do. Don't be silly, you don't need theory. DT compositions use none of it.
As a musician, you'll be sure to progress without it.
A bit of necessary sarcasm,
Mike Washkevich
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 18:58:54 -0800
From: Jim Beavens <jbeavens@ichips.intel.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: OaMoT, Chris P vs. Bafu, and assholes
Message-ID: <199611100258.SAA06636@ichips.intel.com>
> In a dimly lit room with a stool as his stage
> a dream-stricken prince of a pauper's descent
> haunts the eavsdropping silence
> that presses his window
> as he sweats a performance
> to an audience that ticks on the wall
>
> -Only A Matter Of Time
>
>Wow I guess I should read Wdadu's lyrics again. That is a really cool
>piece of writing.
Isn't it, though? This is my all-time favorite DT song, and as I've
said here before, this passage makes me think of a young Kevin Moore,
playing his keyboard alone in his room (Kev did the aforementioned
writing, btw =). Hey, people were clamoring for old threads like
lyric interpretation, right? ;)
On another note, re: Chris P's flame to Bafu and ensuing tirade against
theory-brandishing jerks, when I read Bafu's statement that set you off
so bad, I got the distinct impression that his tongue was planted firmly
in cheek. It seems that Bafu is backed up on jams quite a bit (he always
seems to reply to old threads), so I'm assuming he hasn't responded yet
cuz he hasn't seen your response, but go back and read his "double fanucci"
statement again and see if you can't detect a little sarcasm. All those
terms sounded made-up to me, and it wouldn't be the first time somebody
took his sarcasm seriously (hell, that's how he's gotten to be so famous
on the jam =). Just trying to douse the flames a bit, although I would
welcome any corrections if I'm wrong. ;)
And on a final note, seeing as how I'm from Oregon, and nobody has seen
any trace of the jam's favorite Oregonian (is Warren still subscribed?)
then let me send a heartfelt message to all of you who are going to
one or more of the DT December shows: You are all ASSHOLES.
8^) <-- obligatory smiley for those who don't know who Warren is...
-- Jim Beavens <jbeavens@ichips.intel.com> | If I had a witty remark that MD6 Design Engineer, Intel Corp, Hillsboro OR | would better the lives of my -=(UDIC)=- Subconscious Dragon -=(UDIC)=- | fellow mankind, do you really ** I don't speak for Intel ** | think I would put it HERE?------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 20:12:16 +0000 From: "IbnzRG570" <ibanez@mailhost.cyberhighway.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: music theory Message-ID: <199611100318.UAA15567@cyberhighway.net>
>Yeah this is a good attitude to have.
Thank you, I knew someone would agree. >]
>I'm sure Petrucci would agree with you 100%.
You really think so? I thought he applied theory alot in his music. (?)
>I hope your surgeon feels that he doesn't need any of the theory and >he should just rip you open based on what he watched a couple of his >friends do. Don't be silly, you don't need theory.
I didn't know surgeons need to know study music theory to perform their practice on people. Besides you really shouldn't wish harm on people. It's bad for your karma.
>DT compositions use none of it. As a musician, you'll be sure to progress >without it.
Somebody oughtta correct this guy. He's all messed up. Dream Theater uses theory in their music all the time. I don't. I don't want to write music like Dream Theater. I don't want to write music like anyone. I want to be as original as possible. I don't give a flying tukey's fat fucking behind what any member of Dream Theater (or any of you) says about my approach to theory or songwriting. Someday, I may learn theory. Not to better myself as a musician. Not to write songs because some guy 1000 years ago said this is the way to play songs. I will do it because I want to, and I don't plan to cut anyone down because they don't want to, or because they don't find it useful.
Just let me point something out to you...
There's this guy who I consider to be a phenominal songwriter. He's been playing for about 30 years and plays piano. He has hardly taken a piano lesson in his life and can't read conventional music well, if not at all. He has toured the world several times and played in larger arenas, and sold out larger crowds than our beloved Dream Theater. Like it or not, this guy's not a theory wiz, and writes some of the most beautiful music 14 million people have ever heard. He can't be all that bad can he?
Nuff said. Next thread, please... IbnzRG570 aka Mr. Chuckalupugus ibanez@cyberhighway.net Most Frequent Poseur on the Dream Theater Mailing list (10/96)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 23:29:43 -0500 From: Kain <kain@caribe.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Thanks everyone! Message-ID: <32855A37.1B56@caribe.net>
One of the good things of being here (just one of all of them!) is the music recommendations. Every time someone in the jam recomends something, I go, get it. And enjoy it. SG, LM, Marillion, Altura, Enchant, WM, Rush (which is my current fave band BTW) and now I got Tori's LE. Man this is beautiful. I've seen her live but...this leaves me in awe. Now i understand why most of you refer to her as goddess Tori. Hmmm btw, I'm always looking for DT midis, and I'd like to know if there is any ACOS midi. THAT would be a real challenge for anyone who tried to do it. Is there one? Oh and about recording those DT shows in Dec. I'll even pay to get ahold of it, it'll calm me till they release their new cd :) So get started with those DAT's! Kain
-- |------------------------------------------------| |My newest incarnation.... | |http://www.activision.com/bloodomen/index.html | |The ultimate bloodfest... | |------------------------------------------------|
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 22:43:18 -0500 From: Jean Francois Cloutier <ebe@videotron.ca> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: re: DT themes for win95 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19961110034318.006a83b4@pop.videotron.ca>
Greg, You should have Ms Plus to instal DT themes...its greath with all DT icones, DT musics, DT wallpapper....but your system is slower..and load your hard drive & memories for nothing....so this is your choice : have a fast systems or a slow overloaded system...
think about it
Jeff.....aka HAARP
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 20:42:30 -0800 (PST) From: Ryan Webb <ryanwebb@earthlink.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Mike Portnoy Clinic Message-ID: <199611100442.UAA29226@iberia.it.earthlink.net>
Wow..just got back from the MP clinic in Dallas... I was thourougly amazed... He played for a little more than an hour and a half. We got to hear Just Let Me Breathe (with vocals) and Raise the Knife (without) Wow. He also played Metropolis, and Erotomania...as well as giving some great instruction on time sigs. I met several jammers there, and got one guy interested in joining up. Yes, I did video tape it, I am recording it now onto VHS tape. It looks pretty good. If anyone wants a copy, e-mail me, and we'll work things out. He said that hopefully, the album will be out by early summer, and he is still pushing to have a double album. I'm still stunned....he is one awesome drummer.
Ryan
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 00:00:03 -0500 From: "Ryan P. Skadberg" <skadberg@wicked.stigmata.org> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Ytsejam Information Message-ID: <199611100500.AAA13807@wicked.stigmata.org>
(IF THIS IS THE FIRST TIME YOU ARE SEEING THIS POST, PLEASE READ IT THROUGH COMPLETELY, THERE IS ALOT OF IMPORTANT INFORMATION)
Hey All ....
Here is my new weekly posting about how to get the most (or least if you don't like us) out of the ytsejam. This will be coming out weekly (hopefully) at least for a while since we are quickly gaining subscribers since school is now back in session. I may post it less often after a while, but for now, it will be weekly.
To get on to the Dream Theater Mailing List:
Send mail to ytsejam-request@ax.com For the subject of the message put:
asdf
In the body of the message put:
subscribe ytsejam Your Name
replace Your Name with your real name (eg: Ryan Skadberg). You should recieve a confirmation letter in the your mailbox within 24 hours. If you do not, mail ytsejam-owner@ax.com and I will help you out as soon as possible.
To change the mode you recieve the Dream Theater Mailing List in: There are two ways you can recieve the ytsejam. The first is in digest which is the default. This sends you a large message which contains 15-20 emails each. The other is ack mode, which means you recieve each piece of mail as it comes through. To do this:
Send mail to ytsejam-request@ax.com For the subject of the message put:
asdf
In the body of the message put:
set ytsejam mail ack
OR
set ytsejam mail digest
If you have any problems, please mail ytsejam-owner@ax.com.
To get off the Dream Theater Mailing List:
Send mail to ytsejam-request@ax.com For the subject of the message put:
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In the body of the message put:
unsubscribe ytsejam
You should recieve a confirmation letter within 24 hours. If you don't, once again, please mail ytsejam-owner@ax.com and I will help you out as soon as I can.
To recieve files from the Dream Theater Mailing List:
There are many files kept by the mailing list server. The biggest group are old issues of the jam. It is archived since 1275. If you are looking for an issue earlier than that, please mail ytsejam-owner@ax.com and I will see what I can do. There are also other files kept on the server. These include Mike Bahr CD Updates, The "UnOfficial" Dream Theater SongBook and some others. Any time I add something I usually send a post to the jam so everyone knows about it. To get a list of the files available from the server:
Send mail to ytsejam-request@ax.com For the subject of the message put:
asdf
In the body of the message put:
index ytsejam
This will send you a list of all the files available from the server. To retrieve one of these files:
Send mail to ytsejam-request@ax.com For the subject of the message put:
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In the body of the message put:
get ytsejam filename
In place of filename, put the name of the file you want.
Basic Rules:
There are some basic rules to the jam which make everyone's reading alot more pleasant. Please try and follow them as closely as possible. I will send out warnings to people who blatantly disobey these. You get one warning, a second offense will get your jam priviledges taken away.
1. Do not post just for the sake of posting. There is already a lot of valid traffic on this list, we don't need unnecessary posts which are a waste of everyone's time. The basic rule you should all try to follow is to think before you post.
2. No Top Ten (Five, Twenty, Thirty, etc) lists. These lists are a waste. They take up alot of bandwidth and fill up everyone's mailbox much faster than they would like it filled up. If you want to know everyone's top somethings, please ask for ALL responses to be mailed directly to you. This has been done with the end results posted to the jam and it was very very nice.
3. Do not start / participate in / complain about long off-topic discussions. These have gotten WAY out of hand in the past. If one starts, I will post once saying to stop and take it to private email, anyone continuing the discussion will recieve a warning. These include such topics as God, NIN, Blind Melon, bands selling out, etc.
4. Private E-Mail is a wonderful thing. Use it when you think it may be more useful than posting to the jam.
5. Last, but not least, this is YOUR ytsejam. I am around, and I do administrative work, but I do not say what can/cannot be talked about (most of the time) or moderate in any real way. I am the Ytsejam Administrator more than Moderator. Don't complain if the jam seems to be going downhill, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
Basically, that is all the basic info. As always, if you have any problems feel free to mail me. I get ALOT of mail on a daily basis, so it sometimes takes me a while to get back to you, but 99% of the time, I will get back to you eventually.
Thanks for Reading and Enjoy the List!!!
Skadz Ytsejam Moderator skadz@dreamt.org
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 96 21:09:46 -0000 From: Jennifer <jenibear@gvn.net> To: "Ytsejam Mailing List" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Psychotic conditions Message-ID: <199611100510.VAA24762@pawn.ax.com>
Rick declared the following in Ytsejam #2006:
>Several weeks ago, someone (I forget who) posted their interpretation of A >Mind Beside Itself as being about someone suffering from schitzophrenia. I'm >surprised no one ever commented on this post (unless I just missed it). I >thought that interpretation was very well thought out and applicable. So >whoever was responsible for that post, bravo to you!
I also found myself thinking about "A Mind Beside Itself," particularly "Erotomania" last night. I had been going through some old psych texts to do some research, specifically on "psychosis," and I spied a sidebar about various manifestations, including erotomania. <g> I really don't remember the posting about AMBI and schizophrenia, but it's a fact that schizophrenia is the most common form of psychosis, and erotomania is another psychotic disorder. Either way, you're talking about someone not in touch with reality as most of us know it. (Larry O.: we don't need to go for another bout about whether reality is optional or not. ;) )
Jen
o.-.o For millions of years mankind lived just like animals. ((^)) Then something happened which unleashed the power of our O) _ (O imagination...we learned to talk. (Steven Hawking) O/ \O
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 23:11:40 -0600 (CST) From: Pat Griffin <c675311@everest.cclabs.missouri.edu> To: ThE NuGgeTjAm <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Just some info that may be of interest... Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.91.961109224400.10257A-100000@indy21.gclab.missouri.edu>
The new Queensryche CD is almost completed, all that's left is the vocal=20 tracks. They are looking at a mid-spring release date. There is still=20 no word on a title for the CD or songs. It's expected to be 'happier'=20 than Promised Land was. :)
Magna Carta finally has their own WWW site. Check it out at: http://www.zaks.com/magnacarta/ Unfortunately, there aren't any sound samples to be found...=20
I guess the only other news is for any Stephen King fans out there... =20 The fourth book of The Dark Tower series is due out next summer. The=20 rough draft is 1400 pages long.
Later all... =20 h t t p : / / w w w . m i s s o u r i . e d u / ~ c 6 7 5 3 1 1 / | Pat Griffin Reality=B2 Design | | c675311@showme.missouri.edu c675311@cclabs.missouri.edu | h t t p : / / w w w . m i s s o u r i . e d u / ~ c 6 7 5 3 1 1 /
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 22:47:09 -0700 (MST) From: durnik <durnik@goodnet.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Confused? Message-ID: <199611100547.WAA00260@goodguy.goodnet.com>
I'm confused as to how to pronounce some of the Jammers' names. No offense intended, I know it happens everywhere. Why does it matter? Well, I pose this question. Have you ever tried to find an envelope for a CD order belonging to a certain Jammer and had a friend help, and kept trying to tell him whose name we're searching for except we can't say it right, and we could go past it six times and not realize it? :)
So guys (and/or ladies), can you help me here?
Partha: I can't even spell it, let alone say it. Help me out? Chris Ptacek: how do I pronounce your last name? silent t? silent p? Jaime Kimpton: how do I say your _first_ name? Jay-mee? Bill Polymenakos: which syllable is accented in your last name? Bafu, is it boar-ZIL-luhr-ree, bor-zuh-LEER-ee, or what? Bill Bajzek: bay-zek? bye-zek? badge-ek? (somehow I doubt the last one)
I think there are more that I can't think of because I'm tired. I suppose it would be an interesting thread, for those of us who have names other than the obvious. :) Take care all!
Mike Bahr (pronounced "bar") - Mike Bahr - durnik@goodnet.com - ASU Sun Devils 9-0!!!
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Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 23:37:11 -0800 From: Chris DiGiuseppe <hed@northnet.org> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Taping Shows Message-ID: <32858627.7F2D@northnet.org>
I just have a question today... Does John Petrucci really despise bootlegs and the people who make them? Why? I mean, almost all of DT's fans are absolute fanatics who are going to buy the album on the shelf, plus anything else they can get their hands on, right? So what's up? I'm just kind of curious.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 00:23:40 +0000 From: "Andrew Miller" <subtlerage@mail.gnn.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2007 Message-ID: <199611100615.BAA15058@mail-e2b.gnn.com>
> yeah, there are assholes out there, but maybe you should try ignoring > them instead of being one. the anti-theory jerk can be every bit as > pretentious as the theory jerks, and often even moreso.
agreed. any time you close your mind to a potential learning experience is bad. especially when you're talking about learning music theory. i've been playing keys since i was 3 years old (i'm 23 now). i consider myself to be decent player, but unfortunately i never learned the theory. it *is* very hard to communicate with fellow musicians when you have to relay each note in a chord because you're not exactly sure what the chord name is. theory also teaches you what notes fit where, and helps tremendously with song arrangements. there's no end to it's benefits. i've finally started learning a bit here and there over the last five years and i've definitely noticed a difference in my writing. it's not that it is something i am consciously thinking of while writing; it shouldn't be; takes away the spontaneity; it's something that'll eventually be burned into your brain and there for your use on a subconscious level when you're simply jamming and creating new material.
-Andrew
Andrew Miller - Keyboardist/Vocalist - SubtleRage http://members.gnn.com/subtlerage - subtlerage@gnn.com for wav files, surf to http://members.gnn.com/subtlerage/intersam.htm
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 2008 **************************
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