YTSEJAM Digest 1870
Today's Topics:
1) New song titles. (110% DTC!)
by Mike Estok <estok@teleport.com>
2) Re: YTSEJAM digest 1868
by Jeff Ballard <jballa@ctp.com>
3) new prog bands
by "DREG Records" <DREG@hutman.com>
4) Re: First impressions, & KevMo
by "IbnzRG570" <ibanez@mailhost.cyberhighway.net>
5) Is Robb Leifer out there?
by "Nathaniel Swinburne" <nates1@ix.netcom.com>
6) Mindcrimer and Mike P.
by "Richard A. Bond, Jr." <rickbond@concentric.net>
7) Echolyn's "When Sweet Turn into Sour" sound quality/band
by walter@orlinter.com (Walter Semerenko)
8) mindcrimer
by "Richard A. Bond, Jr." <rickbond@concentric.net>
9) Old Jams, Drums, and Drum Machines
by Tim Caudill <symmetry@usaor.net>
10) Various Ibani or Ibanezes:) and Ethyl Mertz
by Rob Barker <ibanez@wicked.stigmata.org>
11) This is because you are a dick.
by Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
12) warlock
by David Alderman <alde0004@gold.tc.umn.edu>
13) Re: Socrates Died From An Overdose Of Wedlock
by Bretso@aol.com
14) Re: what?
by "Damon M. Fibraio" <s0067977@hawkmail.monmouth.edu>
15) The Suicide Solution...
by Dave Peterson <glyde@scc.net>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 15:47:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mike Estok <estok@teleport.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: New song titles. (110% DTC!)
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.92.960924154215.7117A-100000@kelly.teleport.com>
Some people were complaining bout the new DT song titles, saying
such things as:
-they're wimpy
-they're un-prog-like
-the songs will suck.
Please!! You can't judge a song by its title! That is the most
ignorant thing to say.
I will agree...."Where are you now" and "Take away my pain" don't
sound very tough. But what about the others? Methinks "raise the knife,
burning my soul, you or me, and lines in the sand" are all pretty cool.
Just look at DT's masterpiece. If you had never heard the song
before (this might be hard to imagine) does "Take the Time" sound very
cool? Or "Another Day"? I don't think so, but the song makes it good.
Also, it seems all the new songs are first-person...that is...they
have "me" or "my" in it. Perhaps it is more personal music. (more
emotional for the non-believers)
That's it
NAME: Mike (michelob) Estok
There Itchy! :)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 18:16:33 -0700
From: Jeff Ballard <jballa@ctp.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 1868
Message-ID: <324887F1.13F5@ctp.com>
> DT opinion: Mr. Sherinian will never be the force that Kevmo was in DT
> on I&W, thereby reducing keys to support status, rather than co-lead
> instrument forever in DT.......
I can respect your opinion, but I have to say I feel it is way too early
to judge. Give the man a chance. I would like to think the other band
members chose someone who would be a good fit (and has the talent) for
what they want to do.
Just my $.02.
Jeff
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 21:30:15 +0000
From: "DREG Records" <DREG@hutman.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: new prog bands
Message-ID: <1368522324-7521390@hutman.com>
DREG Records is proud to present...
"DREGs of the Internet - Volume 1"
Including a dozen independant bands and over 70 minutes of the
internet's best progressive rock and metal. Hear this ground-breaking
new music BEFORE these bands make it big! All original music
influenced by the greats (Dream Theater, Rush, Yes, Fates Warning,
Queensryche, ELP, Kansas, Metallica, etc.)
Featuring the bands:
* Clockwork (You've heard them thru the YtseJam, now hear the final version with the awesome new vocalist)
* Happenstance
* Mirror
* Cold Front
* 3250
* Psychedelic Lullabies
* Facade
* Inferno
* The Age of Reason
* Naked
* Natures Call
* Atlantis (another member of the YtseJam)
Official release date is October 1, but advanced orders are being
accepted now.
*** LIMITED TIME BONUS OFFER ***
FREE Naked demo tape to the first 100 orders received. Free
bumper stickers with every order (while supplies last)!
Send check, money-order, postal-order, or carefully hidden cash for
just $12 (+ $2 s/h, $4 for overseas orders) for each CD to:
DREG Records
"DREGs of the Internet"
1912 Old Stonemill Drive
Cranbury, NJ 08512
or check out the official website for song samples and info:
http://www.hutman.com/dreg/compcd.html
(c) 1996, DREG Records. All Rights Reserved. Available in Compact Disc
format only. All material is original and owned by the individual
artists. This is NOT bootleg material and is NOT illegal in any way.
To buy in quantity or for information about distribution, email:
DREG@hutman.com or call (609) 490 - 1061
DREG Records
http://www.hutman.com/dreg/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 19:29:09 +0000
From: "IbnzRG570" <ibanez@mailhost.cyberhighway.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: First impressions, & KevMo
Message-ID: <199609250124.TAA08715@cyberhighway.net>
> >that awake was a bit of a let down, and I was just wondering, is it
> >HEALTHY to really like an early album by a band and then compare the rest
> >of its work to that single piece of work??
I think it's normal. I haven't actually listened to Awake for a
couple of months, yet I listen to I&W endlessly. I think DT will
still go far with Derek, and don't look past him to do co-leads with
JP, Kev wasn't the only one who can shred the keys. I will miss
Kevin though and I think there are few people in this world, short of
Yanni and Kenny G, etc. (no flames, please), who can represent emotions through song as well as he could.
My biggest problem is that when I explore new musical boundaries
anymore, I caompare every band to DT! I can listen to anything and
find myself going, "Hrm, this is okay, but it's no Dream Theater."
My friend also has this problem. Is there counseling for this sort
of thing?
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
<I'm lying here in bed, swear my skin is inside out>
< Just Another Sunday Morning >
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
IbzRG570
ibanez@cyberhighway.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 21:49:01 -0400
From: "Nathaniel Swinburne" <nates1@ix.netcom.com>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Is Robb Leifer out there?
Message-ID: <199609250147.SAA04949@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com>
Sorry for the wasted bandwith, but I wouldn't post a search message like
this if it weren't *very* important. Robb, if you're there, WRITE BACK.
Peace,
Nathaniel
/|_____|\
|<o>|<o>|
__^__
\___/
---------------------------------------------------------------
mailto:NateS1@ix.netcom.com
http://www.netcom.com/~nates1
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 21:47:09 -0700
From: "Richard A. Bond, Jr." <rickbond@concentric.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Mindcrimer and Mike P.
Message-ID: <3248B94D.AE3@concentric.net>
I HAVE to jump in here like everyone else. I'm a drummer, and I love
when Mike shows off. Sure...I wish I could play like him, not that I'd
use it all the time, but I wish I could. He's a magnificant drummer,
and I basically want to say....to each their own.
Rick Bond
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2096 21:52:05 -0400
From: walter@orlinter.com (Walter Semerenko)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Echolyn's "When Sweet Turn into Sour" sound quality/band
Message-ID: <20960925015202541.AAA88@PREFFERC>
At 09:21 PM 9/24/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Overall, the cd is very depressive. You can feel the guys are really
>bitter at Sony.
I wasn't impressed in the live versions of their songs. They are a better
studio band than a live band. BTW, I am a diehard echolyn fan.
>On the back of the CD, you can read "...these song with the exception of the
>two live tracks, don't have the bugs worked out, and since they never
>will...well, this is how they sound."
>"Meaning and the moment: ...This song appears on our first album wich except
>for 2000 copies, is locked away in a SONY vault until the end of time"
I was fortunate enough to receive a tape of the first album at ProgDay '96.
I nearly played it over and over and over and pretty soon it is going to be
worn out. "The Meaning and the Moment" is 10 times better on the studio
album, IMHO.
It is a shame how a big label company can promise a band promotion and then
end up SCREWING them over. As someone already mentioned (Dale Newberry?),
the exact same thing happened to King's X. If the same happened to you how
would you feel?
I tried to ask Brett Kull at ProgDay into giving me one of his copies, but
he wanted it for his personal use. :(
My hope is not lost because Chris Buzby has now formed Finneas Gauge and
from what I hear it is going to be great. The rest of the echolyn guys
formed Still which is more of an alternative/less complex band. :(
>In my opinion, the live tracks are not that great, the demos quality is
>pour and When the sour turns to sweet is ok. I don't recommend this CD
>except if you are a die hard Echolyn fan (i tough i was btw!).
Agreed.
>Jean-Francois Cote
Walter.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 22:01:20 -0700
From: "Richard A. Bond, Jr." <rickbond@concentric.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: mindcrimer
Message-ID: <3248BCA0.B49@concentric.net>
Sorry about the mindcrimer post. If I had known there were already 5000
of them, I wouldn't have. :) On another note. I think that
Queensryche (whom I've LOVED since the EP) did a fantastic job with PL.
I love them album...moreso than O:M, and even more than Empire. As for
Metallica...I've been unhappy with their direction since after ...and
Justice. THAT was a killer album. I'm a drummer. :) hah
Rick Bond
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:08:13 -0400
From: Tim Caudill <symmetry@usaor.net>
To: "'Ytsejam'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Old Jams, Drums, and Drum Machines
Message-ID: <01BBAA6F.802F5CE0@symmetry>
Hey Jammers,
Just reading through my backlog of damn near 40 jams that have =
accumulated during the last two weeks. The most interesting thread =
throughout was initiated by someone calling themself "Mindcrimer". I =
read his thoughts with interest.
I completely disagree with everything, EVERYTHING, he said about =
Portnoy. But i found it interesting to read his point of view. What i =
equate it with is a difficult skill that some people have learned to =
master to the point where doing it or enjoying it is subconscious. For =
instance, reading. This is something most of us do so subconsciously =
that it's nearly impossible to imagine what it was like before we knew =
how to read. I think it would be interesting to hear the thoughts and =
perceptions of someone who can't read.
Same thing with Mindcrimer. I've come to learn and love Portnoy's =
drumming on such a subconscious level, i can't imagine what it would be =
like to not understand it. Thanks Mindcrimer, for this point of view =
that i will never again have. Just the same, i think i'll keep on =
loving JP and DT just the way they are.
Said the aforementioned Mindcrimer:
>1. Pull Me Under- Great guitar work, some of which is drownded out by
>the keyboards in the intro of the song. Would be very good if it
>wasn't for the drums during the second time Labrie sings "This world
>is spinning around me......" Listen to that constant pounding.=20
Yes, listen....LISTEN......LISTEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ok, enough of the old jams and onto the new...i'll try to keep up with =
them a little more from now on (yeah, right!) :-)
DRUM MACHINES...
Now, for those of you skipping past my post, i'd like to ask all jammers =
who use a drum machine, with MIDI and their PC or not, what hardware or =
software or combination of both that you use?? And how do you suggest i =
begin learning about programming a drum machine?? My current knowledge =
of these machines, hardware and software, is ZERO!!!
I've got a whole lot of creativity, songs, guitar riffs, etc., that have =
got to escape my cranium soon or i'll explode. And i think a drum =
machine, capable of multiple drum voices, rhythms, and time sigs will =
help me to capture my musical imagination.
So everybody...tell me where to begin!!!! =20
Thanks all,
Tim
symmetry@usaor.net
(private e-mails accepted and encouraged)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:29:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rob Barker <ibanez@wicked.stigmata.org>
To: ytsejam <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Various Ibani or Ibanezes:) and Ethyl Mertz
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.960924232346.21172A-100000@wicked.stigmata.org>
I, Robert Barker, the other Ibanez on IRC will be jamming with
Ethyl on Sept.27th at People's Pub. I was graciously invited by Al
Pitrelli and the gang to jam a few tunes with the band and Derek on Friday
night. It would be cool if some feelow jammers would attend. Please come
on down, I probably know most of ya anyway, Mojo, Kevin, Robb and so
forth.:) Since Skadz, D-man, And Mike can't make it"( So phooey to you
three.:)
See ya around,
Robert Barker
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:30:41 -0500 (CDT)
From: Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
To: aaronl@cyberhighway.net, Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: This is because you are a dick.
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.95.960924232200.14800B-100000@enteract.com>
***WARNING*** I AM PISSED OFF, AND PROBABLY GOING TO USE CHILDISH
VULGARITY*** IF YOU DON'T WANT TO SEE ME YELLING, SKIP THIS MESSAGE***
**HUMBLE APOLOGIES TO ANY OUTSIDE OF "Aaron" THAT THIS OFFENDS***
Aaron Whatever his name was wrote a letter to the jam saying that if we
send any more unsolicited e mail, he will bill us $500. Well, I hate to
be the one to fucking tell you this, but not only are you a COMPLETE
ASSWIPE and a fucking PIECE OF SHIT for trying this bullshit on a not for
profit fan group, but you're also A FUCKING MORON!
THIS IS ***SOLICITED*** EMAIL YOU COCKSUCK! YOU SUBSCRIBED< OR SOMEONE AT
YOUR ADDRESS DID. THE MAILING LIST PROGRAM (I run one) LOGS THE LETTER
YOU SEND TO SUBSCRIBE AND IT ***WILL*** HOLD UP IN A COURT OF LAW.
Further, THIS IS NOT A FUCKING ADVERTISEMENT, YOU FOOL!
If you are through being a rat bastard and wish to be off this list, you
can mail any member, in a begging manner, for instructions on how to get
off the list. YOU RECEIVED AN EMAIL and SEVERAL explainations on the jam,
about how to unsubscribe. I don't like people who spam... but I REALLY
CAN'T STAND an ASSHOLE who THREATENS THE JAM!
--------------------------------------
Christopher Ptacek at Enteract, L.L.C.
Technical Support Engineer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
T h o u g l e e k i n g o n i o n e y e d d e a t h t o k e n
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:36:36 -0500
From: David Alderman <alde0004@gold.tc.umn.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: warlock
Message-ID: <3248C4E4.7AD8@gold.tc.umn.edu>
Hi there, I have seen a cd by Warlock (Mark Zonder's band before Fates
Warning) and wonder if anyone out there knows if these guys are worth
listening to? Also I don't think the Working Man CD has been recalled
since I have seen it at a couple of Media Plays.
Later...
David
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 01:52:53 -0400
From: Bretso@aol.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Socrates Died From An Overdose Of Wedlock
Message-ID: <960925015252_484808338@emout12.mail.aol.com>
Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com wrote:
<<<Have you ever heard of Mike Varney? He owns
Shrapnel Records. He forced a bunch of guitarists to sound the same
because he knew he could sell albums of guitarists would shred in the
80's. He partially owns MC as well.>>>
Mike never 'forced' anyone to sound like anyone else. Mike has been a fan of
fast,
incendiary, technical playing for a very long time. He started his label
because he
wanted to bring talented unknown players like Yngwie, Paul Gilbert, Shawn
Lane,
Jason Becker, Greg Howe, etc. to a wider audience. Why would he want them all
to sound the same? Don't you think that if he was shoving duplicate artists
down the
collective throats of his market that sooner or later the market would catch
on and
not buy Shrapel albums? Because he is constantly finding new, talented
players and
giving a forum to the guys already on his label he's selling as many titles
as ever.
<<<he will literally send you your tape back at Shrapnel and tell you which
licks he wants removed and what he would like to hear in their place>>>
Mike certainly has some control over what a record he puts out sounds like
but
he doesn't tell anyone what notes to play, etc. If you were trying to make a
quality
product wouldn't you make it as well as you could? Mike knows what sounds
good
and has proven it by selling thousands of albums. So what if he sends a tape
back? If something didn't sound good to you or just plain sucked would you
spend money releasing it much less buying it at the record store?!
<<<I've recently been talking to Bill Berends of Mastermind, the first band
ever to sign (as well as the first band to leave) with MC. He says when
his band refused to rewrite things to make Mike and Peter Morticelli (the
other owner) happy, they got in a bunch of arguements which showed MC's
true colors.>>>
Bill Berends is a very talented and gifted musician and a nice guy. Bill is
very
passionate about his music and demands ultimate control over what is sounds
like.
He doesn't feel that anyone else can edit or guide his vision better than he
can. Mike
and Peter have specific ideas about how they want their product to sound as
does
Bill. Bill's idea and Magna Carta's idea were different and they chose not to
work
together. As for MC's 'true colors' showing, by talking with Bill you only
have one
side of the story. I think do to the fact that MC never released a Mastermind
album or ever forced them to record should lend some credence to the idea
that maybe MC didn't hold Mastermind to their contract and thought it best
that both sides part company.
<<<Varney started out by trying to help players get their
albums out and heard... but he became corrupt. He wanted to play
puppetmaster over the shred guitar movement, and some would even say that
he flooded the market, killing the trend.>>>
Corrupt? You obviously don't know Mike or what he's about. If it wasn't for
Mike
there probably wouldn't never have been a shred movement. Mike was the first
to
bring these great unknown players to a (relatively) large audience. I
challenge you
to deny that. He never set out to control the movement but just wanted to
show the
market the great guitarists that have graced his catalog. "Killing the
trend"?
Hardly. People still buy his albums just like they always have and he's
constantly
finding new talent.
<<<Now he's involved in the Prog market... right around the time DT is
getting
musicians into MUSIC again... Varney can smell an opportunity a mile
away...but I keep hearing bad things about MC and Varney. Oh well... just
thought
I'd share.>>>
Thanks for sharing! But maybe first you should get your facts straight: Mike
and Peter had the idea for Magna Carta LONG before I&W came out. In
fact, MC had two albums out before I&W was released! Yeah, I can understand
you hearing 'bad things' about Varney and MC especially if you've talked with
Bill Berends simply because both parties had idealogical differences.
Adam Barnhart <adamb@cfmc.com> wrote:
<<<My understanding, as I've heard it from a bunch of folks, is that Mike
Varney is something of a greedy bastard. I don't KNOW that, so I'm not
going to try to support that argument.>>>
Thanks for not supporting that argument because it's not true. Mike has made
a
nice living for himself since he started Shrapel. But not because he's greedy
or
dishonest. Just the opposite is true. He's one of the hardest working
individuals I
know and is generous to a fault. Here's one example that shows what kind of
person
Mike is:
There is a guy who used to record for Shrapnel who sometime ago was diagnosed
with a serious illness. He played me a tape of this guy's latest that was
supposed to be on an upcoming album. I couldn't believe what I heard! Some of
the most
inspriring music I'd ever heard. Mike held the rights to this record but gave
it back
to the artist so this person could have the best shot at finding a better
deal to gain
the most financially in light of his condition.
Mike has never forced anyone under contract to him to record for Shrapnel
instead
of going to a major label. In fact, he's helped a lot of his artists find
major label
deals. I don't know who you've heard stuff from about Mike being 'a greedy
bastard' but if you ask people who know him in and out of the music business
(such as Mike Portnoy) you'll find out exactly what I've said about him...
<<<Artistically, it would have been nice if Greg Howe had more time
in the studio. Realistically, that ain't gonna happen unless he buys an
ADAT and sets up shop at home>>>
Greg's last few albums have been record in his own home on ADAT equipment...
<<<If Varney's really mucking around with the foundation of the bands'
writing,
he's making a mistake. But I don't think Shadow Gallery sounds much like
Magellan or Cairo. So, again, I'm not sure whether I want to point the
finger at
Mike Varney at this point. I AM wary, though.>>>
Mike may make suggestions to the bands about what he'd like to hear but it is
definately the bands who are creating the music. MC stuff is almost always
has
that aggressive American prog sound but they've be branching out a little
more
such as with Tempest and some others that they've newly signed.
Bret
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 96 3:22:15 EDT
From: "Damon M. Fibraio" <s0067977@hawkmail.monmouth.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: what?
Message-ID: <9609250722.AA17538@hawkmail.monmouth.edu>
I don't know about you guys, but I've been playing piano for 18 years and
can't play DT like DT can play Dt, but then againwho can play DT like DT?
Nobody. So, to say that Green Day can cover DT, if an 18 year student of the
piano can't do it, Green Day sure can't. In fact, without sheet music, who
really can say that they can handle DT. Songs like that are tough to learn by
ear.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:13:58 -0500 (CDT)
From: Dave Peterson <glyde@scc.net>
To: DT Mailing list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: The Suicide Solution...
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.91.960925095319.11627A-100000@scc.net>
I'm going to bring the Jam down for a minute here...
I read something on the Jam recently that initially didn't affect me
all that much. I deleted that digest and went off to work.
But then it started to eat at me. Unfortuantely I didn't save the jam
so I'm not sure who wrote it, but here's what got to me:
Someone said that it takes a lot of courage to go through with
committing suicide.
(My apologies to everyone on the list who knew of someone who
went through with a suicide, but I have to say this in reply...)
Personally, I can't think of a more _COWARDLY_ thing for someone to do!
When life's feeding you shit, ending your life is not courageous. It's
the easy way out and only cowards take the easy way out.
The brave and courageous thing to do is to fight all the crap that's
going on around you, and slowly but surely dig ourself out of the hole
you're in.
When I look at Curt Kobain's death, the last thing I'm thinking is,
"Wow. That guy had a lot of courage to come to grips with his reality and
bravely say, "I GIVE UP!!!"" Talk about an oxymoron.
I promised myself I'd keep this short, so I'll get off my soapbox
now. Just know that for every person who says that suicide is a brave
thing to do, that's encouraging all the suicidal people out there to keep
on making the same mistake.
- Dr. Teeth
P.S. Again, my apologies to those of you who were close to people who
committed suicide. I just had to say my peace.
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 1870
**************************
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