YTSEJAM Digest 2505
Today's Topics:
1) Re: AOL Virii
by mamalookabubuday@juno.com (Scott Cook)
2) Response... don't read if you're easily upset
by Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
3) aPSoG and AOL and stuff
by Loren Caler <llc@sure.net>
4) Re: a not-so-pleasant shade of blahness.
by Walter Semerenko <walter@orlinter.com>
5) brad gillis-gilrock ranch
by trevorw@ms.kallback.com
6) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2503
by ai292@freenet.carleton.ca (Gordon McFee)
7) Megadeth & WildKoba trivia
by Jacktallica Thetfield <thetgyi@BGNet.bgsu.edu>
8) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2504
by ai292@freenet.carleton.ca (Gordon McFee)
9) Sister Trade
by trevorw@ms.kallback.com
10) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2503
by jusenkyo@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Shane Liebling)
11) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2504
by jusenkyo@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Shane Liebling)
12) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2504
by jusenkyo@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Shane Liebling)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 01:53:29 EDT
From: mamalookabubuday@juno.com (Scott Cook)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: AOL Virii
Message-ID: <19970424.225531.3374.5.Mamalookabubuday@juno.com>
***************************************************************************
I'm afraid of Americans; I'm afraid of the world.
I'm afraid I can't help it; I'm afraid I can't.
On Thu, 24 Apr 1997 22:31:39 -0700 (PDT) Larry Odneal
<hawkeye7@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>=A0Somethin' is screwy here:
>
>Scott (MamalookIpoopoodagainorwhatever) forwarded this:
That's Mamalookabubuday, old fart ;-)
>2 things about this supposed message:
>
>1. I've been using Win95 for over 3 years (beta and release) and
>there is NO such thing as any "Anti-Virus Software that comes with
>the Windows '95 Program" as stated in this message.
Well, like I said in my first line: I personally beileve this is
billshit. But you didn't include that in your reply. I understand
that we need to quote only relevant parts to a post, but I didn't
see you do that this time.
Scott
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 01:08:12 -0500
From: Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Cc: Syrinx <syrinx@dreamt.org>
Subject: Response... don't read if you're easily upset
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970425060812.00a71f90@pop.enteract.com>
This is the last post I will indulge myself in for this little "flame war".
>god forbid someone can dissagree with you.
As I said clearly, and quotably in my last post, it's not about
disagreeing with me or anything like that. If you hate the album, I'm not
gonna knock you for it, and I never did.
>> Original as compared to what? Fates has CONSISTENTLY created new
>> and ORIGINAL music since their inception. You obviously have some bias
>> against the band, when you make a statement like that.
> wow. i didn't know i had a bias.
You just said that the band has not done anything original since
1980. That implies a definite bias, yes. Is there something wrong with
pointing that out? I don't think it's an insult.
> 1: if you don't like something that Chris likes, it's cause you
> have a bias and therefore can't make a decision for youself.
What? Do you understand what a bias is? Here.. try a few tasty
synonyms: disposition, inclination, inclining, partiality, penchant,
predilection, predisposition, proclivity prejudice, one-sidedness, partiality.
You are predisposed to dislike the new Fates, because you start
listening to the album with the attitude that the band has not done anything
original since before their first album. You made that point, not me. That
point implies a bias against the new material. Please quote the part of my
post where I say that you're incapable of making a decision for yourself.
And while you're at it, quote the part where I say that you have a bias
because you disagree with me?
> 2: If you don't like something Chris likes, then one is clearly
>not able to disect songs as well as he can.
Fair enough. Quote that part of my post too. Gee... I don't
REMEMBER writing it, but maybe I'm mistaken. I'm willing to accept that.
We all make mistakes. But I think you're getting awfully defensive, and I
think you're grasping at straws here.
> oh, im sorry. did i say more than that and explain my reasons?
>i'm sure i did.
Really. Could you then re-explain them in a language that some of
us slower folks can comprehend. All I saw was a cut at Alder. Maybe your
point was to say that "words aren't supposed to say something"?
> 3: If you don't like a vocalist that Chris likes, he will say
>that such vocalist is "..generally regarded as one of the best metal
>vocalists around." really? i'd like to know who "general regards him."
Okay... please quote the other post where I make this point, if you
have any basis for this conclusion.
> btw, i did like the band doing closer to the heart, but since i
>(according to chris) have a bias, that means nothing.
That you liked their cover of a Rush song is meaningless, in the
context of your last post. You said:
"they haven't domne anything original since1980"
Closer to the Heart is not an original Fates Tune, and you made no
mention of it when you were busy calling Fates an unoriginal band.
> the album has already been sold.
Good. I hope whoever gets it enjoys it.
>> See my question in the beginning of this post. You've already
>> stated your case that you dislike the album, and are jaded against the band
>> (for the past 17 years, by your accounting). We get that point. Do you
>> have something else to offer?
> now, what't this? is this an unwarranted insult? i thin it is!
What insult? Where is the insult? Maybe you're just a tad thin
skinned?
> i'd love to know where this came from.
And I'd love to know where the stuff you just said about me came
from, because I think you're off base making statements like that. But if
you can come up with evidence to support your claims about me, then I will
concede. It's good to see your true colors after I spend a couple of hours
helping you out.
> i think it's funny that if 100 people post about how great the
>new album is, that's fine. 1 person gives his opinion about their
>dislike of the album..and this what he gets.
> let's hear it for free speech, ladies and gentleman!
I am the supreme bastion of censorship. My whole post had no
purpose but to stop you from speaking. That, or maybe I just wanted you to
see that some of the things that you posted were not true, like the majority
of the things you just posted in your flame. If you would like to respond
to the things _I_ said, instead of putting words into my mouth, I'd be
interested to see what you could come up with.
>> Everyone: Buy this album and make up your own minds! APSoG is a KILLER
>> effin' album!
> hmmm. this is cute. chris wants everyone to make up their own
>minds, yet follows it with a his opinion of the album.
Where's the problem with this? Should I have reversed the order of
the sentences, to make my opinion come before my recommendation that each
person give a listen and decide for themselves?
> i assume he really doesn't want people to make their minds. it's
>easier they like it or they are clearly "biased" against this band.
They? I spoke only of you. And I think that my claim is well
founded, since you yourself made the point about "They... ...1980".
> i think it's funny that i had hardly ever heard anything by fates warning,
>then told that i'm "biased" in some way. i'm still wondering how i got
>to be biased.
So, let me understand this. The band hasn't done anything original
since before their first album, in 1980, and you haven't heard much of
anything by Fates? I think that ABSOLUTELY means that you're biased against
the band. You gave the album one listen, and you cut down music that you've
NEVER EVEN HEARD. That's quite an example of bias.
Again, I repeat, I am done with this public show. I will take this
to private e-mail now, to save you guys the pain of another flame war.
Whether or not Mike can do so, I have no control over.
No doubt Mike will take this post as an insult, because I'm not some
little sycophant, and I am not afraid to defend myself against false claims.
If you can spot one insult in my post, e-mail me personally and let me know.
All I'm doing is responding to what Mike said.
- Chris
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 23:18:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Loren Caler <llc@sure.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: aPSoG and AOL and stuff
Message-ID: <199704250618.XAA14073@sure.net>
aPSoG :
Well first of all I had never heard of Fates until this Jam (thank you all
;). Since there was a HUGE rave about it on here I decided to get on the
horn and find the darn thing. After calling around for about a day I found
it, but the store didn't let you listen to new CD's. Well I took the risk
and bought it anyways. Never heard ANY of their stuff before, but the first
time I heard this I FLIPPED!! This is REAL good shit. It makes up for ALL
the dissapointments in the last few years. I am now hunting down they're
older albums because I am sitting here wondering why I didn't hear these
guys earlier.
To me Kevin's apperance on the album attracted me at first, but once I heard
it through it could have been any keyboardist and that would be fine. Also
I LOVE the singer's voice (name escapes me). The singer in a band is the
one thing that turns me on or off to them. This guy CAN sing!
So that's my opinion on the new Fates.
P.S. Someone tell me, what is hiding on the inside cover? In the fuzzy
waterdrops there are 2 shapes that I can't make out.
AOL:
You CANNOT get a virus by reading e-mail. Period. Of course like someone
else said, if you have auto-exec on your e-mail............I'll send you the
virus myself! ;). Besides, you couldn't give me AOL even for FREE!! Heh heh.
STUFF:
Has anyone ever heard of BMG? It's one of those companies where you can get
something like 13 CD's for the price of one, but with this one people have
told me that you can quit with no other obligations after that. Is this
true? They operate in the U.S. but I'm not sure if they are world wide.
Private e-mail for that one.
If anyones interested in it the site is: www.bmgmusicservice.com
Later,
I-Van
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 02:24:37 +0000
From: Walter Semerenko <walter@orlinter.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: a not-so-pleasant shade of blahness.
Message-ID: <B0000084505@chicago.orlinter.com>
At 03:22 PM 4/24/97 -0700, Syrinx wrote:
> ...it's the most boring cd i've ever yerad in my life.
I borrowed "Inside Out" listened to it one time and thought it was boring.
This was two years ago, and I didn't listen to it well (in my car). Since
then, I listened to various FW songs on different album. They didn't grab me.
> the music...well, it's like a death march. it's like lard's
>"time to melt," which is basically a 34 minute track of 5 chords repeated
>over and over again. so fates can repeat a musical theme.
Good, you are stating a opinion and comparison, but I didn't hear 5 chords
being repeated over and over in a span of 34 min. Could you be more
specific? For example, point out particular passages in the songs (you
don't have to mention the exact track time on each track) and which songs
carry the repetition.
> great. yes
>does it to, and that's why they haven't domne anything original since
>1980.
Uhm..while I'm not familiar with FW, I can't argue with you. You have
justify that statement if you want people to believe that.
You were saying something about originality in the DT irc channel. I didn't
understand what you were trying to say. Perhaps you want to elaborate here.
>this concept album could have (and should have, imo) been shortened
>to 10 minutes. it's lik an ongoing funeral.
I found it to be sorta gloomy in the begining tracks (good imo) and it
picked up energy around VI or VII.
> the vocals. i assume ray adler can't just sing, 'cause he fails
>to do so.
You need to qualify that statement by saying he can't sing *well*.
> he tries to make each word say something in it's own right.
>maybe some people like that, but i don't...espically because i'm a
>singer.
Anyways, from the context, that is what you imply in the next couple of
sentences.
>you wanna sing? then sing.
Non sequitar (it does not follow). Are you sure you don't hear Ray Alder
singing on the CD? Gee, then what is it? A computer generated vocalist? :-)
> of course, this is totally my opinion. if any of you want this
>(and can't find it) i'll be more than happy to sell my cd (which i've
>only played once) for 6 bucks.
What a steal!
> any comments that have some insightfullness are always welcome.
You need to listen to it more than once before making a judgement. Just
curious, Syrinx, have you ever listened to an album that you didn't like at
first listen and did after repeated listenings? If yes, what albums? I can
think of a couple albums, that is why I have a rule (my own personal one)
that to give it at least two listens preferably three before I make a
judgement. BTW, if you were writing the majority of reviews for Expose or
Progression, I would cancel. The mags mostly write in the objective, and
when they do make subjective statement they usually :
1) make statements on which type of listeners would probably like the album.
2) elaborate more on why they don't like it.
Now for the album that I'm listening to Marillion _Brave_ and so far I've
fell asleep on track 5, so I'd call this boring music. I'm going to listen
to it two times all the way through, and if my opinion is the same...hey
I'll just leave it a that.
I've pretty much said that about QR O:M. I like the lyrics, but the music
is boring. (I haven't given it a full 2nd listen tho.)
Walter.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 23:50:08 -0700
From: trevorw@ms.kallback.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: brad gillis-gilrock ranch
Message-ID: <199704250650.XAA00206@ms.kallback.com>
>BTW, those of you that don't own Gilrock Ranch (the aforementioned solo
>album) ought to. Not like I've been listening to anything but APSoG
>lately, but it's still a neato disc.
----------
AND it's available from
German Music Express: http://www.musicexpress.com/
for only $9.35 ! + $3 s&h
and you'll get it in a week or less.
(anyone interested in a big 'ol list of online places to get cd's? I got
one.)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 03:02:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: ai292@freenet.carleton.ca (Gordon McFee)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2503
Message-ID: <199704250702.DAA15008@freenet5.carleton.ca>
>With this new lead singer, and Phil Collins out, does anyone think that
>they might return to their prog roots? I for one would love for them to
>get back into their "Lamb Lies Down..." groove again. And hey, supposedly
>this new guy sounds somewhat David Gilmour-ish...
Dream on.. I mean it would be nice and all, but Tony and Mike
haven't been any more adventurous than Phil since the late 70's/early
80's.
I'll be the first to cheer them if they return to their prog
roots, but don't expect it.. and you won't be disappointed.
> / \
> |\_/|
> | |
> _ |=-=| _
> _ / \| |/ \
> / \| | | ||\
> | | | | | \
> | /
> \ /
> | |
>Insightful enough for ya?
No, but very VERY ignorant. Somebody on this list actually has the
courage to not venerate Fates Warning or some other two-bit prog metal
outfit.. I guess this is what should be expected.
Hey, guess what. Fates is ok, but terribly overrated. And Savatage
sucks. Hell, even DT has some pretty weak material out there.
It's hard enough for a lot of these bands to sell albums without
pompous fans turning off anybody who isn't a diehard like they are.
Attitudes like yours are a very good reason why I will not be checking out
the new Fates album anytime soon, chiefly because drooling fanaticism
turns off many people (witness why most of progdom hates Rush) and because
the one time somebody offered a dissenting opinion from "Fatez Roolz" they
got shit on.
Actually tell ya what. If the original poster gets back to me,
I'll buy his album used. I mean, why give the band royalties so they can
put out more stuff for a jerk like you? I think that would be 6 bucks well
spent. So original poster, send me a note and we can do some business.
-- "To seek the sacred river Alph, and walk the caves of ice..." - Rush "Ashes and Diamonds,Foe and Friend/We were all equal in the end." -Pink Floyd "The sands of time were eroded by the river of constant change." - Genesis "Others steal your thoughts they're not confined within your mind"-DreamTheater------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 03:09:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Jacktallica Thetfield <thetgyi@BGNet.bgsu.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Megadeth & WildKoba trivia Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.95.970425030117.6049A-100000@bgnet2.bgsu.edu>
> Dave commented that they wouldn't put any "freaks" in the video, smear > mud on their faces or sing behind a glass window with paint smeared all > over it.
They don't need any freaks, because they are the freaks. And, regardless of how the video actually turns out, I don't think anybody gives a rat's ass: I guess you need to fill up M2 with something.... Rock on Dave, it's people like you that make me stay away from alcohol. BTW, I don't hate Megadeth, I just think Rust in Peace (sp?) was their last decent album. And to the original Ytsegoon, the answer to "What do VH, Heart, and Bela Fleck have in common?" Easy, they all have siblings in their bands: the brothers Van Halen, the Heart sisters, and the Wooten brothers.
Sincerely,
G. Jack Thetgyi ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "What's Up, Jack?" -Lars Ulrich, to me, before I asked James about the Rayderz; Rockline, 7/96. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 03:16:49 -0400 (EDT) From: ai292@freenet.carleton.ca (Gordon McFee) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2504 Message-ID: <199704250716.DAA16343@freenet5.carleton.ca>
> >Picked up the last copy of APSoG from the local Best Buy, and even on the >first listen I know this is really going to grow on me. I think Part >XII is reminiscent of Space Dye Vest, and it's also similar to some >tracked music (.mod, .s3m) that I've heard. I can see why some people
Well at least it's indexed so you can skip Part XII.
> Original as compared to what? Fates has CONSISTENTLY created new >and ORIGINAL music since their inception. You obviously have some bias >against the band, when you make a statement like that. This bias must be >what has deafened your ears to the fact that there are just assloads of >changes in the chords, melodies and musical concepts presented.
How would say Arch-era Fates is original, other than the fact it's one of the most ear-jarring vocal performances I've ever been subjected to? CONSISTENTLY created new and ORIGINAL music, eh? I hear Iron Maiden, Queensryche and other such influences in their 80s work. Chasing Time seems to have a lot of very MAINSTREAM stuff with Alder at the helm too. Going with a 55 minute song was pretty ballsy this go around but they've been leaning toward commercial for awhile now before that. "Assloads of changes in the chords".. well apparently if I'm to believe my jams there are 23 chords in Don't Speak (?) .. and it still sucks :).
> See my question in the beginning of this post. You've already >stated your case that you dislike the album, and are jaded against the band >(for the past 17 years, by your accounting). We get that point. Do you >have something else to offer? You have concluded that he is jaded for the past 17 years because he doesn't like the album. The prejudice is not his it would seem.
>Everyone: Buy this album and make up your own minds! APSoG is a KILLER >effin' album!
Having made monumental mistakes with Pendragon and Savatage I choose to make up my own mind and then buy the album :).. or get the album very cheap. Whichever comes first.
---- Syrinx sez ---- > 1: if you don't like something that Chris likes, it's cause you > have a bias and therefore can't make a decision for youself.
NO, fool, it's because you are jaded against the band!
> 3: If you don't like a vocalist that Chris likes, he will say >that such vocalist is "..generally regarded as one of the best metal >vocalists around." really? i'd like to know who "general regards him."
This mailing list. Right behind Labrie and Tate usually. Here the best metal vocalist is a HIGH metal vocalist..
> the album has already been sold.
Damn. :)
> i think it's funny that if 100 people post about how great the >new album is, that's fine. 1 person gives his opinion about their >dislike of the album..and this what he gets. > > let's hear it for free speech, ladies and gentleman!
That's what I've been saying, sort of. However for every 1 person who gets blasted here there are many more who will read and make up their own minds about how to reward such behaviour.
>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >"..666 is no longer alone. > he's getting out the marrow in your backbone, > and the seven trumpets blowing sweet rock and roll > gonna blow right down inside your soul. > pythagoras with the looking-glass, reflect the full moon. > in blood, he's writing the lyrics to a brand new tune.."
Of course once you sample something BETTER (Supper's Ready) there's really no getting excited about Fate's Warning. I guess that's bias :).
-- "To seek the sacred river Alph, and walk the caves of ice..." - Rush "Ashes and Diamonds,Foe and Friend/We were all equal in the end." -Pink Floyd "The sands of time were eroded by the river of constant change." - Genesis "Others steal your thoughts they're not confined within your mind"-DreamTheater
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 00:20:26 -0700 From: trevorw@ms.kallback.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Sister Trade Message-ID: <199704250720.AAA00212@ms.kallback.com>
>Victoria's Secret model when she isn't busy doing brain surgery. ---------- Looks like you posted this to the wrong list. You KNOW guys don't like women who are smarter than they are! :)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 01:07:07 -0700 From: jusenkyo@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Shane Liebling) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2503 Message-ID: <v02130500af86157194ba@[128.32.100.59]>
>> Ok. Here's why they have the alarm clock at the end. >> According to Jim Matheos, this song is in realtime. The lyrics are >> the thoughts that go through some guys head in 53 minutes. He'd >> wondering what to do today. It's the beginning of the day. >> >> Apparently he woke up an hour before his alarm went off, and just >> lay there listening to the rain and thinking and stuff.
All I gotta say is I LOVE stream of conciousnes... Heck, first it's James Joyce, then Virginia Woolfe, now Fates Warning... gottal love it!!!
-Shane
PS: I was wondering, anyone have comments on the whole thing of the "whats in the CD player thing" that people put at the ends of their messages (I kinda like it myself...)
______________________________________________________________________________ I Shane Liebling I I was told there's a miracle for each I I jusenkyo@uclink4.berkeley.edu I day that I try. I was told there's a I I http://www.earthlink.net/~mariachi I new love that's born for each one I I CAA Tweeker & Ytsejammer I that has died... Love is the Dance of I I Member of A.M.M.O. since 1997 I Eternity."Metropolis" - Dream Theater I ______________________________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 01:13:19 -0700 From: jusenkyo@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Shane Liebling) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2504 Message-ID: <v02130501af8617e327aa@[128.32.100.59]>
>Let's not forget also Cacophony and tons of solo guitarists' albums (Tony
I have heard this name before on the Jam, Cacophony. Why does it sound familiar?
-Shane
______________________________________________________________________________ I Shane Liebling I I was told there's a miracle for each I I jusenkyo@uclink4.berkeley.edu I day that I try. I was told there's a I I http://www.earthlink.net/~mariachi I new love that's born for each one I I CAA Tweeker & Ytsejammer I that has died... Love is the Dance of I I Member of A.M.M.O. since 1997 I Eternity."Metropolis" - Dream Theater I ______________________________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 01:18:12 -0700 From: jusenkyo@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Shane Liebling) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2504 Message-ID: <v02130502af8618413dc6@[128.32.100.59]>
>1) I was one of the people that bitched about there being only two copies >of the new disc in the whole town (apparently). I was walking down the >sidewalk after shooting some pool today when the voice of Ray Alder drifted >to me from a car that had just pulled up alongside. "Let nothing bleed into >nothing..." I turned to look at the guy, who regarded my wide-eyed stare >with some interest, and blurted, "Aha! YOU got the other copy!" He must've >known what I was talking about because he smirked, turned it down some, and >answered, "Yeah, got the last one at Best Buy" (which is where I'd gotten >mine). Now I know for a *fact* there aren't any left in town. :)
God, I had a similar experience (in a sense) to this. I looked around my town (within walking distance) for APSOG and ended up having to beg on the jam for help. Well it ends up that I found it and talked to a few other prog-head friends of mine. I think we bout out the entire town. Tower ordered one copy, which was purchaced by one of my friends. Rasputin's ordered 3, a friend, the fellow jammer, and I bought all three of these, and the other music store didn't order it (I think - anyone get theirs at Ameoba?). So we got them all. Kind of a shame, I would love it if everyone could listen to this stuff, it is really good (I think KevMo kicked some serious ass on this one... I am seriously anxious to get Chroma Key when it comes out!).
-Shane
______________________________________________________________________________ I Shane Liebling I I was told there's a miracle for each I I jusenkyo@uclink4.berkeley.edu I day that I try. I was told there's a I I http://www.earthlink.net/~mariachi I new love that's born for each one I I CAA Tweeker & Ytsejammer I that has died... Love is the Dance of I I Member of A.M.M.O. since 1997 I Eternity."Metropolis" - Dream Theater I ______________________________________________________________________________
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 2505 **************************
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