YTSEJAM Digest 2859
Today's Topics:
1) King Crimson at LOLLAPALOOZA
by cluesump@sirius.com
2) boots
by imajica@algonet.se (Niklas Thorpenberg)
3) Good Point
by Matt Robbins-McDaniel <cfi@disknet.com>
4) Just sing, and, Colder is better
by caber1@concentric.net
5) RAISE THE KNIFE whah !!!
by richard@capitale.qc.ca (Richard James)
6) Divine Regale/trading vs boot cds
by Pat Daugherty <pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com>
7) Re: Unsound Crap
by Eric Rodger <erodger@fore.com>
8) MP3's
by Lars Hellsten <lars@shaw.wave.ca>
9)
by Lars Hellsten <lars@shaw.wave.ca>
10) All the talk about Mike Bahr and CD-R's
by Marcel Berkhout <berkhout@xs4all.nl>
11) bootlegging
by Eric Rodger <erodger@fore.com>
12) Exit 'Jam Left
by Mark Bredius <bredius@globalxs.nl>
13) But wait a sec....?
by eckie@asu.edu
14) Uno Momento
by eckie@asu.edu
15) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2858
by Navin Systems <hazzy@best.com>
16) You Not Me...request!
by Anthony LaSorsa <dtgnr@nh.ultranet.com>
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Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 11:44:11 -0700
From: cluesump@sirius.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: King Crimson at LOLLAPALOOZA
Message-ID: <v01520d03b0165e8ebfd6@[205.134.227.29]>
ernie@pananet.com (Ernesto Schnack) wrote;
>On a more positive note: I just got this months Guitar mag (or last month's
>for you northern people) and in an interview with Robert Fripp, he says
>that King Crimson was offered to play at Lollapalooza. Yes, exactly.
>LOLLAPALOOZA. And although they obviously declined , he wanted to do it
>next year, since doing festivals comes out a lot cheaper for them than a
>headlining tour.
Understood what you meant. King Crimson used to play in that kind of
festival before, maybe last 2 years because the band wanted to try
something new by playing in front of heavy metal fans instead of prog fans
to see their reactions. It seems like what Fripp is doing now by touring
with G3.
AE
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Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 11:38:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: imajica@algonet.se (Niklas Thorpenberg)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: boots
Message-ID: <199708121838.LAA14733@odin.ax.com>
Oh no, yet another post about Mr Bahr and his operation.
Seriously, I don't understand how anyone has the energy to bother about
whether or not it is illegal. I mean, we've already concluded that it
doesn't hurt the band, right?
So, who does it hurt? The record company? Well, they would never think to
release any of that stuff anyway, so why should they care? They'll still
sell a vast amount of official releases.
So maybe Mike could sell his boots somewhat cheaper, but I'd bet he puts a
great deal of time into what he does, and time (as you all know) is money;
of course he has to make a profit from what he's doing. And besides, no one
seems to care about the fact that record companies make millions of dollars
by selling records - records that essentially is created by someone other
than themselves. I guess you all know that the artist get only a small
portion of an album's sales. Record stores don't have a very big margin, so
somewhere in between someone is making big bucks without really deserving it.
Illegal? Well, maybe it is illegal, but in my mind not everything illegal is
necessarily wrong, though I think it would be morally wrong to copy and sell
boots of official releases, since this actually hurts the artists. Now, I
don't know the purpose of copyright legislation, but it seems obvious that
in practice it protects large corporations - as if they couldn't survive
without these laws. Greed, I guess would be the key word in this business,
or in fact in business in general. And the legislative forces are right
behind the companies, because they have a personal interest in their
well-being. Ooops, guess I went to far into the political aspect of things
there. Sorry.
Ultimately, I guess the future of Mr. Bahr's business will be decided by the
same market forces that supposedly characterise the market economy: demand
and supply.
Personally, I don't why he shouldn't be allowed to make some money while
making a few ytse-jammers happy!
oOo
If a man could pass through
Paradise in a dream, and have
a flower presented to him as a
pledge that his soul had really
been there, and if he found that
flower in his hand when he
awoke - Aye, and what then?
oOo
Niklas
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 14:54:45 -0500
From: Matt Robbins-McDaniel <cfi@disknet.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Good Point
Message-ID: <33F0BF85.7A11@disknet.com>
> Constructive criticism. It would be great if all received orders for
> one CD would be filled before the shipping of the next CD began. I seem
> to always be reading the reviews of the *next* CD before I receive my
> previous one.
As worthless as I think this whole Bahr debate is, the above comment is
an excellent one. Why would it be so hard to release a print run of 250
CD's, print them and then ship them, then start the process over with
the next CD project? I realize this might not be quite as efficient when
doing multiple projects, but it would certainly better serve the
CUSTOMER. I believe Mike only uses one burner, so why not stick with one
project at a time? It's all a money making thing and if the customer
were made first priority it could be done better. Just a thought.
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Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 14:17:01 -0700
From: caber1@concentric.net
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Just sing, and, Colder is better
Message-ID: <33F2244C.1C2D@concentric.net>
Hi everyone,
> From: "Blondie Smurf" <cyradis1@hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2844
> Talking is harder on your voice than singing for some reason. When I had
> laryngitis (or however you spell it) my teacher wanted me to walk around
> speaking like Alvin from Alvin and the Chipmunks until I got better. But
> not talking is kind of bs-sy, seeing as if you sang everything.. you'd
> be a walking opera.. Well, aside from that, eventually it'd get on
> peoples nerves. So no, I wouldn't think it would be a good idea. (You
> could probably learn sign languague though.)
Well, in the interview she said when she has to talk, she'll do one of
those bush man knocks with her tongue. One for yes, two for no, and
three for something I'm forgetting at the moment. :) Can anybody else
back up what she's saying about singing is easier on your voice than
talking?
---- Someone was saying music is entirely math. Not true. Most of it is really just physics. The one thing that I actually got out of that class was, that your amp is can actually be louder if it's cold! Woohoo!!!"Oh God! That's a scary thought, Frank's amp is actually LOUDER!" John McCabe caber1@concentric.net
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Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:03:47 +0500 From: richard@capitale.qc.ca (Richard James) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: RAISE THE KNIFE whah !!! Message-ID: <9708121903.AA02156@jason.qc.ca>
After listening to that song i can't believe the cut that one it is very progressive and also very heavy . i only heard the short version (PRECIOUS THINGS) but i can say that song have to be 1 of the bonus tracks on the JAPAN version of FII
TAKE CARE rj
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Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:09:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Daugherty <pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com> To: Dream Theater Mailing List <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Divine Regale/trading vs boot cds Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970812150312.5255G-100000@bdmserver>
I've had Divine Regale's Horizons EP since I guess about 1993-1994. I love the last track (Fear the storm) for the overlying vocals in the chorus. During their set Friday they did a new arrangement for this song. It still sounded great. I was trying to figure out who was doing the backing vocals. I could only tell that the drummer and vocalist were the only ones singing.
European jammers should check these guys out since more then likely they will be touring there soon.
Some people seem to be saying trade boots dont buy them. Should I remind everyone about my luck with trading?????? I thought so...
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------| | Pat Daugherty pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com | |=======================================================================| | "Every breath leaves me one less to my last" --Dream Theater | | "That is not an option, Mr. Mulder" --X-Files | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
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Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:07:20 -0400 From: Eric Rodger <erodger@fore.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Unsound Crap Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970812150720.00f34900@pophost.fore.com>
John McCabe wrote, response to me: >> Most of us veterans started our DT bootleg >> collections by trading for blanks, not paying some rip-off dealer or crying >> in the bathroom. > >I don't know if you were around in the end of '96(last 4 months or so). >But a lot of people were complaining about how someone(not mentioning >any names) had promised to make dubs. Hey, didn't someone start a list >because of this?
The only bad traders I ever encountered on this list were Jeremy Haynes, who personally ripped me off of 10 tapes, along with many other jammers; and Al B. who supposedly ripped Pat D. off, which was what all the hype was about 4 months ago. Pat has since granted Al a full and unconditional pardon, and Al hadn't ripped anyone else off, so this situation isn't really a good example anyway. What it comes down to is that 99% of jammers are trustworthy, and won't rip you off in a tape trade, so your only excuse for avoiding it is laziness.
>> Also, I never paid more than $20 for a single disc boot >> from a dealer (doubles were always $40), so the fact that Mike's prices >> have come down from $25 to $20, still only puts his discs at the same price >> as most Imported bootlegs. > >Hmm, $20? What was the shipping? Or a better question would be where is >this place, I want some? :) A lot of dealers rip you off. They'll take >your money, and, you'll never see them again!
I guess I was fortunate to pay these prices. I found Home Sweet Home and Dream Out Loud for $20 each at a record fair, so I didn't have to pay any postage. I found LitS and DoE (both doubles), for about $40 each, plus maybe $3 for shipping since I got them through a mail order place (CDEurope). Consciously Unreal (double), $40 at a record fair. Then I stopped paying these prices, and started trading for dubs of the bootlegs, and let other jammers take the $20/$40 hit.
KAI
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:22:26 -0400 From: Lars Hellsten <lars@shaw.wave.ca> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: MP3's Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970812152225.006a4f20@mail.tor.shaw.wave.ca>
>I've download these files more then 5 times from my University with Netscape >for Unix and the mp3 files were exelent. >Later I've tried it at home with Netscape for Dos and I've had exactly the >same problem as some of you allready told.
I tried re-downloading the files several times, and they still don't work. I tried with Communicator for Windows. I also logged into my linux box and downloaded them with lynx, then transferred them to this computer via FTP. Lynx downloaded them in text/plain mode, so obviously it's having the same problem.
I'm guessing the problem is that the web server your university is running on thinks the files aren't binary. Now, I don't know much about the HTTP protocol, but I can't imagine that the client (web browser) would determine by itself whether the file is binary - it has no way of knowing - therefore it must be the server that's saying it's text.
So... do you have the "executable" permission set? If not, set it - that'll ensure that the file is recognized as a binary file. So if you have a shell account, just login and do a "chmod uog+x filename" and that should fix it... if you want to be sure, if you click on a file that's recognized as binary, good/newer web browsers like Communicator or Lynx will bring up the "Save file as" dialog. If it tries to simply display the file on the screen, then you know it's not recognizing the file type properly.
The people who got it to work are probably using older web browsers that don't try to detect the type of file and act accordingly. So to ensure compatibility with all browsers, you should always set the permissions to executable. I've found that this is a common problem on many web sites that are running off Unix servers, but created by novice web designers. This is probably the same reason the copy of YNM that was originally posted on the web didn't work for a lot of people, but worked fine when downloaded from Dr. Mosh's site...
BTW, I just d/led the file with Internet Explorer 4.0 as I wrote this message, and it works fine. But people shouldn't be forced to use inferior Micro$oft products just to download MP3's. Unfortunately Micro$oft has a way of taking little things in computer world like this, and making it seem like it's the non-Micro$oft products that are causing the problem, not user error.
So to sum up the YtseJam lesson on computers for today: if you run a web site, always set the permissions on downloadable files to executable! This is probably the same reason the copy of YNM posted on some
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Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:26:46 -0400 From: Lars Hellsten <lars@shaw.wave.ca> To: ytsejam@ax.com Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970812152645.00683cd0@mail.tor.shaw.wave.ca>
>I would like to point out that this is all well and good, but before one skips >over it, one has to download it. This takes time, especially for those of us >using modems and slower connections. This time adds up, and eventually equals >money. So, if you have something that applies to a limited amount of people >(i.e. your customers), then send it to those people, rather than the Jam. The
Brain wave! I just got a brilliant idea... why don't Mike and Melissa start their OWN MAILING LIST! That way people could subscribe and get the updates delievered right to their mailbox. It would make sense, no? I'm sure one of their customers could easily find a free place to host it.
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Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 21:37:11 +0200 From: Marcel Berkhout <berkhout@xs4all.nl> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: All the talk about Mike Bahr and CD-R's Message-ID: <33F0BB67.355239C2@xs4all.nl>
> Marcel had a good thing going with Carpe Diem. I am kind of curious > about what ever happened to him. Why no second release, and so forth. > He could do it, right? You guys (and gals) would support him, > wouldn't you? You know, I hope that tons of people try to do what I > do. That way I'll have more awesome DT boots to listen to.
ok, I have to react to this, I wanted to stay out of this discussion (like many other discussions, I'm sorry to say that), but since Mike mentioned my name if feel like I have to reply. I hope I can stay as objective as possible.
Some of the people tend to forget the costs you make before you can actually start producing the cd's. Here's the amount of money I spent (february 1995):
Philips CDD2000 CD writer $ 1000 (shitty machine b.t.w.) Adaptec SCSI master $250 Fast 1,0 Gb Hard drive $250 SCSI external housing $100
At that time the cdr discs were very expensive, around $8 - $9
If you take all of that into consideration, Mike prices aren't high at all. But, on the other hand....... Mike has produced a lot of cd's by now. I think that he has earned his initial costs back by now. But (yes, I can go on and on with this) making the cd's absorbs a lot of time. You have to check on your cd writer every 10-20 minutes or so, to see if the cd is either ready or fucked up. Now that sucks! you never know if the cdr disc will drop out or work correctly.
There are only a couple of people complaining about Mike and his cd's. There are a couple of hundred people who are very happy with Mikes services (eehm cd's that is!). Leave it at that.... I mean why bother to start a huge discussion.
That's all I have to say about this issue.
At this present time I have my 4th!! cd writer, a Philips CDD2600. The first 2 were Philips CDD2000's and worked fine (sometimes) for about 3 months and after that I had to wait another 2 months for a new one. The third one was a JVC bla bla something... Now that's a piece of shit. Now I finally have a good cd writer which hasn't fucked up a cd since I got it (about 2 months ago).
I'm thinking about doing some more 'Carpe Diem' cd's. I have about 30 cd-r labels left, so I could do 30 more Carpe Diems. I'm also thinking about a 2 cd set from the 1997 Euro tour. I have some great DAT recordings from Amsterdam, Tilburg (2 shows) and some German shows. Anyone who already has these shows on tape, will agree with me that all these shows are amazing. James' voice is really incredible on some of the shows.
If the time comes I'll let you all know :)
People who are interested in obtaning a Carpe Diem cd, please email me privately.
Well, I hope the discussion ends right here and right now (VH content here!)
Later,
Marcel berkhout@xs4all.nl <------ my new email address (forget about the old one v932407@si.hhs.nl)
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Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:38:46 -0400 From: Eric Rodger <erodger@fore.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: bootlegging Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970812153846.00f46630@pophost.fore.com>
>This is my feelings on boots. Bootlegs is a word that a record >company came up with because it would mean that they would >lose potential profits and artists for the most part don't >like them because that means that's less the cash they get >paid.
Not true. "Bootleg" came from the term used to describe people making and selling illegal alcohol during the years of prohibition - bootleggers. They weren't sabotaging the profits of anyone else, because legally, nobody else was profiting from it. The term bootleg describes the illegally produced product and the profits made from it, and doesn't really have anything to do with loss of potential profits, which wasn't an issue when the real "bootlegging" took place.
KAI
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Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 21:41:05 +0200 From: Mark Bredius <bredius@globalxs.nl> To: "'The ungrateful maggots Jam'" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Exit 'Jam Left Message-ID: <01BCA76C.F37EA0C0@Kirk.startrek.GlobalXS.nl>
Lars Hellsten wrote :
>Mark Bredius wrote: >> I'm sure some people will be interested in this. Someone on the >> Marillion mailinglist started a fund, to help pay for a US tour. >> Every donor of $25 and over will get a *free* limited edition CD >> recorded during the US tour. Only 1000 copies will be made, and >> there are still some left (about 100-200, I think). Marillion's >> record company recently went chapter 11, and *now* the Tour Fund > > 3 perfectly justified messages in a row?
Yeah, and probably no spelling and/or grammar errors either ! I don't even use a freaking spelling checker, or DICKtionary. Besides, writing perfectly justified messages comes naturally to me... Somehow, all of my sentences end up exactly the same width :-)
> Someone needs to get a fucking life. :)
Someone needs to
beat the living shit out of you. :) Fucking idiot. :)
Hey, I'm typing all over the place !!! Cool !
I can write crappy mAssages too !! Oops ! I made a spelling error ! I deserve to die !!!! FUCK ME!!! I SUCK!!
Put me in a trash can !!!
Well, that was nice for a change... _____
Brian Cox(ucker), nice way to stab someone in the back.
Mike Bahr... I hope you are keeping a list of all those who are bitching about you, right now... If any of them *ever* try to order a CD from you, just tell them to go to hell :)
Skadz, maybe you should shut down the Ytsejam for a few days, or even a week, so everyone can cool off a bit... IMO we need to start appreciating this list a bit more, instead of continuously fucking it up... Also, would it be possible to restrict posting to *just* those who are subscribed to the list. That way, you'll prevent people from posting anonymously and banning them will actually keep them from posting too... It's sad to see that lots of people like abusing this list for their own pleasure but that is probably something we will have to get used to :-( At this point I'm actually considering getting the hell off this list... I'm sick to my stomach of all the shit that's been going on, on the 'Jam. No, I'm not just saying that... Some of you really do disgust me...
Here's hoping the Ytsejam will get better soon. I'm not holding my breath, though... Fuck, am I disappointed...
Oh, Mads, please no comments on my negativity or prozac jokes... Maybe I AM being a dick, but at least my heart is in the right place, unlike some fuckers on the 'Jam.
Mark ____________________________________________________bredius@globalxs.nl__ HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE YTSEJAM : _ _____ ___ _ _ __ __ Address: ytsejam-request@ax.com |:||_.:._|/:._]|:]_[:|\.\_/./ Subject: asdf |:| |:| (.:(_ |:___:| \_::/ Message: unsubscribe ytsejam <yourname> |_| [_] \___]|_] [_| [__/ _________________________________________________________________________ Dream Theater online "Under A Cyber Moon" http://www.prognosis.com/dream/ Itchy's http://www.prognosis.com/itchy/ H Website http://www.a-vip.com/H
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Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 13:39:35 -0700 (MST) From: eckie@asu.edu To: Ytsejam Mailing List <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: But wait a sec....? Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970812133757.10523A-100000@general2.asu.edu>
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 15:50:54 -0700 (PDT) ]From: durnik <durnik@goodnet.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2850
Oh my.
I just read an entire Jam where virtually every post was about me. This is good when it's the defense stuff, and not so good when it's stuff like Brian Cox threatening to tell their label what I'm up to. I think I'll just shut up and not say anything more after this post.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Uh huh. >;)
~Eckie's cleanin' out his mailbox, cantcha tell?
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Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 13:44:54 -0700 (MST) From: eckie@asu.edu To: Ytsejam Mailing List <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Uno Momento Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970812134151.11683A-100000@general2.asu.edu>
I've heard rumours that some people are actually capable of TELNETTING to the DT IRC. I've tried it myself, and all I get is a bunch of server identity checks and a blinking cursor that doesn't do anything. If it _is_ possible, ie if somebody has axually done this li'l trick, please email me 'n tell me how!
Dazed 'n confused, 'n still caught in my shorts,
~Dream Eckie
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Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 13:48:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Navin Systems <hazzy@best.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2858 Message-ID: <199708122048.NAA18367@shell3.ba.best.com>
Ok well Some people have been complaining about Mp3's not working in Netscape? This is true. However, you can still play your mp3's correctly if you do the following: <shift-click> on the desired link to the file. This will download the file WITH the linefeeds. Once you have the file, there is a program called "uncook.exe" which is widely available. It fixes the linefeed problem very quickly. The syntax is as follows : uncook input.mp3 output.mp3
Do a yahoo search for it, or check an mp3 utilities page. If you really don't want to use MS INET explorer (like me), but can't find this program, drop me a line. Hope that maybe might possible somehow help!
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Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 17:03:12 -0400 From: Anthony LaSorsa <dtgnr@nh.ultranet.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: You Not Me...request! Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970812170312.007a2cd0@nh.ultranet.com>
Hello there. Someone on the jam was so gracious enough to "Take the Time" :P to send me that MP3 file of 'You Not Me'. I've listened to it nonstop and dubbed onto tape from the computer...I decided to call the local rock radio stations and request it. I didn't care whether it was out or not, but I wanted to let the DJ know that this song ROCKS! I asked him if they had recieved the promo copy of the song and then asked him to play it if he did in fact have it. I told him that I heard the song and it was seriously the best thing that radio could play at this point. He said he'd look. Even though it didn't get played, (probably cuz he didn't have the promo yet) I wanted to start some hype about the new DT in the area. I have told all my friends to call rock stations and start requesting it like madmen. I think that if we can all get together on this nationwide, we can push DT into the mainstream rock radio market. Then from there MTV can't be too far behind. I want to send a request out to all jammers to call up their local rock stations and start requesting this song. Is this a feasable idea? Later, Tony
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 2859 **************************
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