YTSEJAM Digest 2800
Today's Topics:
1) FW in AZ
by auhcy@asu.edu
2) NDTC
by "The Notorious B.I.G. S.W.I.F.T.Y." <swifty@auburn.net>
3) WAH WAH
by Pedro Filipe <f.miguel@mail.telepac.pt>
4) DT TABS
by Pedro Filipe <f.miguel@mail.telepac.pt>
5) Styx Info NDTC
by "Trevor W. Hoit" <TrevorW@ms.kallback.com>
6) Und Keine Eier
by nga@software-ag.de (Neil Gallop)
7) DT related, but, no content
by caber1@concentric.net
8) QR review
by Pat Daugherty <pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com>
9) STYX
by Suzanne Morrison <smorriso@swspectrum.com>
10) sleep equation, outdoor pav's, Lilith
by Albert Balkiewicz <balkiewi@UMDNJ.EDU>
11) Re: Duh
by Rocky Dean <iban@mindspring.com>
12) Petrucci Shrugged
by Buck Stodgers <andrew.t.forcier@prudential.com>
13) Re: DT related, but, no content
by Carlos Alfaro <calfaro@caribe.net>
14) mentioned something and forgot to follow up
by Partha Mukhopadhyay <ahtrap@umich.edu>
15) RE: The world sucks, more or less
by "Edwin Voras" <Edwin.Voras@MCI.Com>
16) Popularity sucks.
by Buck Stodgers <andrew.t.forcier@prudential.com>
17) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2797
by brian.kirk@USVGI.mail.abb.com
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Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 01:50:31 -0700 (MST)
From: auhcy@asu.edu
To: YtseJam <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: FW in AZ
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970728014846.9671A-100000@general5.asu.edu>
Just wondering if any Phx metro ytsejammers are going to see FW @ Mason
Jar tonight?
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Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 04:31:55 -0500
From: "The Notorious B.I.G. S.W.I.F.T.Y." <swifty@auburn.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: NDTC
Message-ID: <33DC670B.496C@auburn.net>
Here it is. Digest #2800, better known as 52.91502622 squared. Better
known as my IQ. I posted this because I didn't get to post in #2112 or
#2525 (you remember, "In the year 2525/If the race of man is still
alive."
Nine years ago, when I first bought All The World's A Stage on CD, it
had 9 tracks. Yesterday I bought the reissue (because my old copy is
scratched to hell) and this time the disc includes "What You're Doing."
9 years of scientific research and development=5:38 more time available
on a CD. Isn't technology grand? Or should I say "Saved by technology?"
I guess I should buy Exit...Stage Left again also, since my raggedy-ass
CD player won't read it either.
> DT may be more progressive, but does that really matter? Should
> it be required that more people like DT cause they're better musicians and
> write longer songs? Most of these questions are rhetorical, but take a shot
> at answering them if you want.
Here you go. We're all going to be dead in 60-70 years, so why fight
about it?
And if that non-masculine person was REALLY Lord of The Dance he'd be
able to do his shtick with Metropolis blaring on the PA.
-- *********************************************************************** * Mark Peters -- swifty@auburn.net -- Auburn University, Class of '99 * * Ytsejammer, tape trader at http://www.auburn.net/~swifty/index.html * * Progressive tape swap - http://www.auburn.net/~swifty/tapeswap.html * * * * "The reason they call it the American Dream is because you * * have to be asleep to believe it." - George Carlin * ***********************************************************************------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 13:00:10 +0200 From: Pedro Filipe <f.miguel@mail.telepac.pt> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: WAH WAH Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970728110010.0066d598@mail.telepac.pt>
I want to buy a wah wah to use with my brand new Ibanez Jem 7BSB. I had in mind the Dunlop Crybaby or the Morley Bad Horsie (yeah..Steve= rulz!). Any sugestions?
We are: FleXable (Francisco Miguel) & Apicultor (Pedro Filipe)
"Practice, practice, practice" - Michael Angelo "Hello me, it's me again..." - Dave Mustaine "Give me a p=E1lhete, please!" - A dumbass at Imperial
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Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 13:00:07 +0200 From: Pedro Filipe <f.miguel@mail.telepac.pt> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: DT TABS Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970728110007.00668608@mail.telepac.pt>
Someone wrote:
>Hey,Dream Theater and guitar freaks out there in there world!!!! >The following songs' FULL TABLATURE are available at:=20 > =20 > http://falcon.sch.bme.hu/dt/ > > - Learning To Live > - Metroplois Pt. 1 > - Caught In A Web > - Under A Glass Moon > - Innocence Faded > - Take The Time (a small part is missing,sorry...) > - The Mirror
I went to this site but i couldn't find any tablature. :( Did any of you find these tabs?
We are: FleXable (Francisco Miguel) & Apicultor (Pedro Filipe)
"Practice, practice, practice" - Michael Angelo "Hello me, it's me again..." - Dave Mustaine "Give me a p=E1lhete, please!" - A dumbass at Imperial
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 05:44:48 -0700 From: "Trevor W. Hoit" <TrevorW@ms.kallback.com> To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Styx Info NDTC Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=kbhq%l=KBHQ-970728124448Z-8655@ms.Kallback.com>
Lisa and anyone else who cares:
Styx has 18 cds. Well, really 17 because Styx I (one) was never released on cd. There are 12 studio cds and 6 Best Of/Greatest Hits/Live cds. Singer/keys Dennis DeYoung also has 5 solo cds, including an cd of broadway tunes and a musical of The Hunchback of Notre Dame. (I could not make this up.) Guitarist Tommy Shaw was replaced by Glen Burtnik for their last studio cd, Edge of the Century, but is back with the group after 3 solo cds, 2 cds from Damn Yankees and one cd with Jack Blades of Night Ranger (who was also in DY with TS and Ted Nugent) Guitarist James "JY" Young had 3 solo cds, one of which was with Jan Hammer. Drummer John Panazzo died last summer after battling alcohol related illnesses. His brother, Chuck Panazzo still plays bass for the band.
I will be seeing them Wednesday night along with Pat "Hit Me With Your Best Shot" Benatar. -Trevor (The Biggest Styx Fan in the World) p.s. I think Yes has about 73 albums and as many or more line-up changes.
>---------- >
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Date: Mon, 28 Jul 97 14:52:53 +0200 From: nga@software-ag.de (Neil Gallop) To: ytsejam@ax.com Cc: nga@server3.software-ag.de Subject: Und Keine Eier Message-ID: <9707281252.AA00292@sundoc13.software-ag.de>
Hi all
did somebody say Tool? These guys have got to be the most innovative band around today, or for the last couple of years for that matter. When these guys start a 'song', there is absolutely no way that you can know how it will develop and in which direction it will go. Linking to some of the stuff that has been on the jam lately, Tool is a band with almost no radio presence, very little TV presence (only VIVA plays them - occasionally - here in Krautland) and no advertizing in the record shops, yet I believe 'Aenima' has gone platinum. It's called word of mouth. I've lent 'Aenima' to four or five guys that I drink/hang out with, and they've all bought both 'Aenima' and 'Undertow', yet not one of them has bought anything by Dream Theater (one of them did say, however, that he thought they were obviously good musicians).
Let's face it, prog (what ever that may mean to each of you) simply isn't meant for mass-consumer markets - it is a niche product, intended for a small, select and very discerning audience (and I mean that without trying to sound elitist). Take my father, for example: he is a coach maker (or panel beater, if you will) at the Aston Martin car company, where all of the body work is still done by hand. These cars are, for me, the ultimate in motor vehicles. They only make 2 or 3 of these things a week, and most people (even those who claim to know a bit about exclusive cars) have either never heard of them or wouldn't recognize one if it ran them over. My father has been offered more money to change to Rolls Royce, where the bodywork is pressed, rather than hand beaten from start to finish, but he refused, saying that he takes pride in the quality of his product, rather than lowering his standards to those of what he considers to be a mass-produced car. And I won't even mention Ford or General Motors...
Still two months to go until the new album comes out, but I'm getting worried already. Anybody else willing to join in a sweep stakes about how many people write "this song made me cry"? I'm willing to put my money on 20+ before I have to unsubscribe and resort to the waste bin under my desk to throw up into.
They say you are what you eat, so I guess Mike Tyson just wanted to become a better boxer.
stay safe and happy listening Neil Gallop (nga@software-ag.de) Currently playing: Waltari - Space Avenue (this album is like a wart - it grows on you with time)
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Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 08:35:26 -0700 From: caber1@concentric.net To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: DT related, but, no content Message-ID: <33DCBBFB.A7A@concentric.net>
> From: Joe Wright <jrwee@gator.net> > Subject: 1ST DT SINGLE!!!!!
You Not Me, was called You or Me. Or was or and? Read that part again if it didn't make sense. :)
Anyway, I remember people saying it was 4/4 and sounded very catchy. That's what bought the selling out topic last time, which turned into the music thread about why modern music sucks. Since, we've bought it up again, I just wanted to waste space. ___
Anyway, what's up with the YtseCon IV in LV? Wasn't this going happen with some band members? Well, post something if you know something! :)
John McCabe caber1@concentric.net
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Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:33:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Daugherty <pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com> To: Dream Theater Mailing List <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: QR review Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970728092403.28020A@bdmserver>
I saw Queensryche at the Nissan Pavillion in Virginia on Saturday. Nissan Pavillion is this amazing mammoth outdoor pavillion. It can hold 25,000. Well, needless to say there wasn't a quarter of that many people there. There was no one sitting on the lawn and the pavillion was half empty. It just shows that sad state of music and what's popular today.
Anyway QR still was doing the shorter set compared to the set before Geoff got sick. The show was great. QR was on big time. Unfortunately QR skipped RFO and The Warning and didn't do some of OM. How could they not play "I don't believe in love"????? Anyway they did do the first song they wrote as a band "The Lady Wore Black". They guys looked like they were having a great time.
There were these 2 guys standing next to me (I had 7th row seats). They did nothing but stand there. They didn't move at all. One guy had a QR shirt on. Anyway during the Lady Wore Black which was played about midway. They left and never came back. Go figure...
I didn't see anyone else there with a DT shirt on. After the show ended I was standing in line for the rest room and some guy goes "You seen Dream Theater?". I say "3 times". He goes "They're awesome.". He asked me what was up with them and I go "the new album comes out September 23". He then goes "You mande my night". Then on the way out of the rest rooms some other guy goes "where does Dream Theater play around here?". So I told him about the new cd.
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------| | Pat Daugherty pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com | |=======================================================================| | "Every breath leaves me one less to my last" --Dream Theater | | "That is not an option, Mr. Mulder" --X-Files | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
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Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:00:00 -0500 From: Suzanne Morrison <smorriso@swspectrum.com> To: "ytsejam@ax.com" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: STYX Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=swspectrum%l=SWSPECTRUM/SSIAMX01/001FD10F@ssiam002.swspectrum.com>
> Has anyone heard of Styx, and what is their opinion?
I actually got to see Styx in concert about a month ago here in Dallas. They put on a full-fledged awesome show with a laser light show and the whole works. They still sound awesome! Unbelieveably, they didn't play Mr. Roboto - I have to say I was a little disappointed. But they played Madame Blue and Snowblind, so I was a happy camper. Their new stuff sounded kinda boring to me, but that could be because my musical tastes have gotten heavier since I first got into Styx. Nevertheless, a very talented band!
Six days 'til Fates hits Dallas! I am so pumped!
-Suzie Morrison
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Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:09:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Albert Balkiewicz <balkiewi@UMDNJ.EDU> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: sleep equation, outdoor pav's, Lilith Message-ID: <199707281409.KAA13108@njmsa.UMDNJ.EDU>
My new theory (which has now bee proven) (the one about the hairline:music taste ratio fell through:
5 hours of sleep on Friday night PLUS 3 hours of drunken sleep Saturday night PLUS 8 hours of Lilith Fair (involving alcohol consumption) PLUS 2 hours of sleep Sunday night EQUALS A VERY very very very long and bad day at work.....
If anyone cares to give me grant support to run similar trials (support just involves supplying alcohol and kick-ass music), please E-mail me privately.
Anyway, saw the Lilith Fair yesterday at the E-center/Blockbuster Pavilion in Camden, NJ. Man, it was insanely awesome. I don't know exactly what it is, but outdoor pav's, esp. those that can hold 25K people, if placed in a nice setting (Camden is not nice, but they've developed around the pav), can be such a great place to listen to music.
Most of the main acts (except the Cardigans) were excellent, the weather was great, no lesbian women threatened me with castration.......what more could you ask for....
Honestly though, if you can, definitely check this show out - Sarah McLaughlan (sp), Tracy Chapman, and Joan Osbourne were worth the price of the ticket alone........It was my first "festival"-type show, and I am damn glad I went, and I will surely go again.............next up, HORDE.
later,
Al
-- ^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@
I inhale the sun...........I exhale the absence of light I am the number One..........burning.
^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^ email: balkiewi@njmsa.umdnj.edu the_prof@bigfoot.com HOMEPAGE:http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Towers/9280/index.html
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Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:33:10 -0400 From: Rocky Dean <iban@mindspring.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Duh Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970728143310.006cba0c@pop.mindspring.com>
Hey Chad, Dont be so hard on yourself dude, i was imitating actual people. yep believe it or not, there are actually people like that, it makes me sick, so i gotta make fun of em to make me feel better. =]
btw.. ive been a metallica fan since Ride The Lightning, but i cant say im a fan of that new shit.
Rocky Dean iban@mindspring.com http://www.mindspring.com/~iban
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Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:37:39 -0400 From: Buck Stodgers <andrew.t.forcier@prudential.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Petrucci Shrugged Message-ID: <199707281436.AA11554@gateway2.prudential.com>
Hello,
>i say we musicians quit. we'll find a mountain hide-away somewhere in >the Rockies where we'll form our own society, expressly for musicians >and those non-musicians who can truely appreciate music.
Hmmm... Did someone just finish some Ayn RAnd light reading...:) -- ______________________________________________________________ "Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter..." -Yoda, the Jedi Master ______________________________________________________________ Andrew Forcier a.k.a. Buck Stodgers **************************************************************
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Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:34:46 -0400 From: Carlos Alfaro <calfaro@caribe.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: DT related, but, no content Message-ID: <33DCAE06.474@caribe.net>
caber1@concentric.net wrote: > > > From: Joe Wright <jrwee@gator.net> > > Subject: 1ST DT SINGLE!!!!! > > You Not Me, was called You or Me. Or was or and? Read that part again if > it didn't make sense. :) > > Anyway, I remember people saying it was 4/4 and sounded very catchy. > That's what bought the selling out topic last time,
i dont believe this song has been heard yet.. the one they were talking about last time i think it was where are you now..which is not gonna be on the album at all..
"At the edge of chaos, unexpected outcomes occur. The risk to survival is severe." Ian Malcolm http://premium.caribe.net/~calfaro mailto:calfaro@caribe.net mailto:ytsekurt@geocities.com mailto:progboy@mindless.com
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Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:54:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Partha Mukhopadhyay <ahtrap@umich.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: mentioned something and forgot to follow up Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95.970728104132.21379A-100000@qbert.rs.itd.umich.edu>
'member how i mentioned picking up Nitro's O.F.R. disc the other day? Decided I don't like it, even after headphones listen, and so if anyone wants to get a taste of the ytsejam-renowned MICHAEL.ANGELO. and the boys (Jim Gillette's glass shattering voice! TJ Racer and Bobby Rock thrown in for free!) for the low low price of $5, drop me a line at ahtrap@umich.edu....shredfest for a good price, cheap thrills for a cheap deal, get it right here.......
Also got an extra echolyn- "as the world" for the same money, if there's anyone out there who hasn't heard this great band yet, and/or wants to stretch their ears a bit.........
DT content......why do i get the feeling that the guy who mentioned the single, and getting an early copy might become really popular around here soon? You not me as a first single, huh? I still haven't seen the lyrics to any of the songs, what's it about?
partha
DGFT (Deep george farber thought).....gee, I sure hope george is using cut and paste when he goes off the deep end, because typing fuck you and die withh three exclamation points after every single one can get real tiring on the fingers....
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Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 07:48 -0700 (MST) From: "Edwin Voras" <Edwin.Voras@MCI.Com> To: Ytsejam <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: RE: The world sucks, more or less Message-ID: <19970728145441.AAA25113@localHost>
Chris Merlo wrote:
>I think we need to shift the focus of childhood. I mean, hell, I watch >commercials for toys on TV, and I get disgusted. Toys today play >themselves, and kids just watch. I grew up with GI Joes and a frisbee. >We had to make up our own games. The three kids I grew up with and I have >become two programmers, a journalist, and a psych student. Creativity >early on leads to creativity later. > >Kids don't do anything any more. They watch things get done. It's no >surprise that everything is the way it is. Short attention spans, stupid >toys, stupid music, stupid people working at McDonalds...
Bravo Chris! Along those same lines is the fact that public education no longer feels the need to teach kids anything about the arts. No music or Art or Theater or Sports in my kids schools, just Math, History Language and Science and while I'm not saying those are indeed improtant, life looses alot without the Arts. (Jumping off of my Soapbox now.)
Ytse on Dudes,
eD
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Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:09:40 -0400 From: Buck Stodgers <andrew.t.forcier@prudential.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Popularity sucks. Message-ID: <199707281508.AA14806@gateway2.prudential.com>
Hello all, On tape copies of Bahr stuff: >Or am I the only one still in the Dark Ages? :-)
No, I think you're courting Pre-Cambrian there... D-man: >Kids don't seem to be learning how to draw or paint or play the >recorder
Woo-hoo! I had nearly forgotten this time honored instrument. Did you learn the zither too D? The two instruments created for the musically inept. Oh, I forgot the third: bass. Heheh...
>I had the money, I'd start an underground radio station
The sad thing is, you can't even do this at most college stations anymore. Playlists rule the airwaves, and it sucks.
>7) DIE!!! >by george.farber@juno.com (George Farber)
I was wondering why there was such a short topic list for #2793...:)
>No takers on that Queensryche ticket?!
Not surprising. Saturday I bought my ticket for the Arts Center show that was Sunday. I got third row seats. But surprisingly, when the show was underway around 8:30, the place was nearly sold out. Review to come. As for all you folks complaining about the music we like being less popular, why complain? Case in point: My friend Chris has been a huge Dave Matthews fan for five years. You may find that odd since the Under the Table CD came out three years ago, but Chris's girlfriend went to Richmond, so he had seen Dave in clubs with 200-300 people. He took me to a show where he and I were ten feet from the stage in a club with less than 1000 people (Pearl Street in Northampton, MA). Now, as we all know, getting DMB tickets is like trying to find the Lie single in the USA: if you weren't there when it went on sale, forget trying to find it now. It pisses Chris off to no end that people who have never even heard the song Granny get front row seats while he suffers in the bleeds. He and I both content ourselves to go to the Dave and Tim acoustic shows and skip the band shows. After all, Chris says the Pearl Street show was THE DEFINITIVE show, why try to surpass it. So I'll stay happy if DT plays the Manhattan Center or even the Birch Hell for the rest of their careers (though the band may not be as happy). That way, I can always be sure I have a good spot, or I can at least fight my way up for one. Reserved seating arena shows suck on the whole, I don't bother anymore. I'm happy with DT and Nuno playing the clubs where the REAL fans are. More to come... -- ______________________________________________________________ "Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter..." -Yoda, the Jedi Master ______________________________________________________________ Andrew Forcier a.k.a. Buck Stodgers Maintainer of the List of Ytse-Traders of Repute; To submit names or request a copy, mailto:andrew.forcier@prudential.com To view the list: http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/ytselist.txt -------------------------------------------------------------- --List Manager-- The Peppermint Tribe, the Saigon Kick Mailing List For info, check out: http://idt.net/~rmerri9/ for e-mail inquiries, mailto:andrew.t.forcier@prudential.com **************************************************************
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Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:18:49 -0400 From: brian.kirk@USVGI.mail.abb.com To: " - (052)ytsejam(a)ax.com" <ytsejam@ax.com> Cc: " - (052)f.miguel(a)mail.telepac.pt" <f.miguel@mail.telepac.pt> Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2797 Message-ID: <0010200000938804000002L042*@MHS>
> From: Pedro Filipe <f.miguel@mail.telepac.pt> > Subject: PLEASE ENLIGHTEN ME WITH YOUR WISDOM > > PLEASE ENLIGHTEN ME WITH YOUR WISDOM: > > 1- 4/4 can be seen as two measures in 2/4. So if a song is in 4/4=3D2= 0 > who tells me it can't be also 2/4? > > > 2- What is the difference between a song in 4/4 (100bpm) and a > song in 4/8 (100bpm)? Isn't it the same thing? =3D20
1) It could be in 4/4, 2/4, 6/4, 2/2, 4/8, 2/8, 8/4, 8/16, .... Well, you get the idea.
2) The only way you'd know the difference is if you saw it written out=
in standard western music notation.
The differences between all the time sigs I listed in part 1 up there really only show up in tempo and notation. In an orchestral music, for=
example, if the same piece is written in 4/4 and 2/2, the only differen= ce will be how fast the conductor is waving his/her/its arms. I've even played some pieces where the conductor switches to 1/1, and halves the tempo again, i.e. 4/4 at 180 bpm, 2/2 at 90 bpm, or 1/1 at 45 btm. Whi= ch speed would you rather flail your arm at *consistently* for half an hou= r with a hundred of people depending on you to get it right?
The other difference is notation. I will assume that not everyone here= is familiar with standard notation, so here's a quick crash course.
Whole note =3D open circle Half note =3D open circle with stem (vertical line) Quarter note =3D closed circle with stem Eighth note =3D closed circle with stem and flag
So far so good. All of these are fairly distinctive and can be easily recognized at a glance.
Sixteenth note =3D closed circle with stem and two flags Thirtysecond note =3D closed circle with stem and three flags
Sixteenth notes do get used quite a bit, thirtysecond notes are sighted=
slightly less often than the Loch Ness Monster. If a passage of music = has eighth, sixteenth, and thirtysecond notes in close proximity, it starts= to become unreadable and unplayable. You can't read it because you spend = more time counting flags than actually playing each note, and you can't play= it because you can't keep track of where you are within a beat.
The solution? Give a "longer" note the beat. Notice that tempo is *be= ats* per minute, not quarter notes per minute. If you try to write out one of Petrucci's solos in 4/8, you'll end up with so many flags on the page t= hat it'll be almost solid black. If you write it out in 4/4, every note wi= ll lose one flag, and you might even have a few half notes in there. If you wr= ite it out in 4/2, every note will lose another flag, and those half notes wil= l even become whole notes.
I hope this clears things up a bit.
"Briiiaaaaan!!" "Kiiirrrrrrk!!" - Joe, Wings - Khan, Wrath of Khan brian.kirk@usvgi.mail.abb.com bkirk@blkbox.com Write me. If you dare!
=
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 2800 **************************
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