YTSEJAM Digest 2801
Today's Topics:
1) Extra Extra! Prog Goes Mainstream! Partha blows head off!
by Christopher Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
2) Re: QR review
by Rocky Dean <iban@mindspring.com>
3) QR review, and more of my senseless blatherings..
by Buck Stodgers <andrew.t.forcier@prudential.com>
4) Re: DT related, but, no content
by George Bast <Gbast@Brickhouse.com>
5) Re: Popularity sucks.
by Brandon Elhai <belhai@drew.edu>
6) 'merican music's sad state, and others...
by "Blevins, Mike" <BlevinsM@amsc.Belvoir.Army.Mil>
7) I shot the TuPac
by Christopher Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
8) The Human Head Weighs 8 Pounds
by Adam Barnhart <adamb@cfmc.com>
9) Re: Popularity sucks.
by "KorgX3" <KorgX3@cyberhighway.net>
10) FW @ Danbury August 6th
by "Jeremy C. Hallum" <jhallum@bu-ast.bu.edu>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:36:15 -0500 (CDT)
From: Christopher Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Extra Extra! Prog Goes Mainstream! Partha blows head off!
Message-ID: <199707281536.KAA13818@enteract.com>
> No, it'd be difficult to find 6-fingered latex gloves. And we'd have no
> middle finger, which would make Mads very sad... ;)
I'm sure I could come up with new and more irritating 6 finger insulting gestures.
Imagine.... all you'd have to do is WAVE and the guy who just cut you off would be at least
unsettled for having seen your mutant self. :)
> How many albums does Yes have?
> Which ones should i get first?
A lot. Just start with Fragile and work from there. :)
> From: Partha Mukhopadhyay <ahtrap@umich.edu>
> Subject: selfish bastages
> if prog ever got huge, it'd suck
Yeah... I know _I'D_ hate to make a living playing the music I like to play. Boy
woould THAT suck. :)
> we've been over this territory many times before, about how we secretly
> *like* the fact that prog isn't big, because the way it is, we can sit
> back and bitch at all those other forms of less-than-*good* (whatever the
> hell that means) that are getting popular while *real* musicians are
> shafted by the whims of an inattentive public.....
Are you so petty that you can't make fun of all forms of music that you don't
appreciate unless they're big? You're just not doing enough bitching. I'm ashamed of you.
What about all the sub genres of music that you're not insulting, just because they aren't
popular yet? That's genre-ist! Equal slander for all lower forms of music! :)
> (Metallica comes to mind).....I'm just thinking that it's really cool to
> be listening to stuff like DT and FW and know that I'm relatively alone in
> that taste......
While I like being original too, I'd much rather see the bands I love make lots of
money and be able to continue doing what it is that they want to do with their music, rather
than scrape by, barely, after 8 or so albums. Just because the green-haired all black wearing
dog collar freakboy down the street decides it's officially cool to like Fates Warning doesn't
mean I'll have any less of a listening experience next time I jam APSoG. I would rather see
them get freakboy's album money than see No Doubt get his money.
> I wouldn't begrudge them huge success, none of us would,
> but.....it would't (couldn't?) be the same to hear DT on the radio
> constantly
Sure, but you have to admit, the radio'd be a lot better sounding than it is now! If
they just played APSoG over and over again, they still could really only play it once every
hour.... :)
> Main point, if DT were big, and PMU came on the radio regularly, I woulda
> got that paper in on time.....but I wouldn't had that pleasure of going
> freaking wild over DT like that.......and even if it is selfish, I'd like
> to keep that........
I'm sorry. We need it back. Cool post though. :)
> Subject: I've heard MICHAEL.ANGELO. and he is for sale
>
> picked up Nitro's O.F.R album cheaplike.......it sucks
> maybe it's cuz i ain't into that shred groove, I dunno
No... it sucks. :)
> I gotta say, there were awesome solos going on, but.....they were just
> totally USELESS in the context of the song.....perfectly awesome
> pyrotechnics wasted in the middle of some icky music......
This is the shameful story of Michael Bateo err- MICHAEL.ANGELO. 's life. But feel no
pity for him... he wrote all of the Nitro music and lyrics, so it's his own bloody fault. You
just happened to get the crappier of their two crappy albums. The other album has better
solos... but it's still one of those "Okay... track six. Fastforward to solo.... cool. Track
seven. Fastforward to solo..." type albums
> ANGELO. is holding this bad-ass 4-guitar in one thing, 4 fully strung
> necks meeting in a cross shape.....is that thing actually playable? cool
> weapon, gotta say.....
Yes. There is a lot of video footage available of Mike playing his V neck guitars and
his 4 neck guitars. He's the inspiration behind Steve Vai's 3 neck heart shaped guitar (the
neck configuration looks like this, if you're imaginative: \// )
Chris Ptacek at EnterAct, L.L.C -- (773) 248 8511
http://www.enteract.com (business)
http://www.prognosis.com/madsman/ (my contribution to
--------------------------------- the vast wealth of
"To err is human... to suck out | underdeveloped
one's brain with an orally | web sites)
deployed flesh tube is not."-MS| ****************
---------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:59:53 -0400
From: Rocky Dean <iban@mindspring.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: QR review
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970728155953.006ffb04@pop.mindspring.com>
i was there too at the nissan pavillion. section 101, great seats, anyway, i
was thinking exactally the same thing, "why didnt they play i dont beleive
in love" and "wow, they played lady wore black" it was a great show, did you
see that bat/bird whatever it was, up on the stage flyin allover the guys?
for the encore they started to do some new song, so we left to beat the
traffic, they didnt do any old songs after that did they?
Rocky Dean
iban@mindspring.com
http://www.mindspring.com/~iban
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:58:27 -0400
From: Buck Stodgers <andrew.t.forcier@prudential.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: QR review, and more of my senseless blatherings..
Message-ID: <199707281557.AA19961@gateway2.prudential.com>
Hello,
Tomorrow is my last day with e-mail access until after I move. If you
think you may need my phone number for some reason (i.e. trades) let me
know, ASAP.
So, Queensryche... Got my tickets the day before, still managed to
score third row. I guess everyone bought up the cheap seats early... Not
as good a show as PL, but still better than most other bands. Too short
too (1:45). The opening act sucked, but what can you expect from a band
named Pist-on (pronounced Pissed on). I have to say though, when the
roadies dropped the curtain for QR's setup, I was impressed. I like the
arrangements of the screens, but they didn't use them to nearly the
effect and extent they did on the PL tour. The Voice Inside wasn't an
inspired choice to open with. Too medium paced... And the song selection
was mediocre. Why on earth would they choose Della Brown from all that's
on Empire? Granted, they played the four big ones (Empire, Jet City,
Rainy Night, and Lucidity), but why not play Resistance, Anybody
Listening or Best I Can? Or even One and Only? I guess they took a cue
from Rush: only play the hits. Oh, well...
I was also surprised they separated the Mindcrime songs. Made the show
flow a little better though. They dropped quite a few songs from the set
lists I've seen, so I was disappointed that there was no Hit the Black,
I Don't Believe in Love, or Take Hold. But on the whole, the band was
all together, and Geoff's voice was dead on (though he mentioned his
*summer cold*). Not in my top ten shows though...
The oh-so Swift one said:
> Then again, if you're dying to learn how to play "The Joker" and can't
>figure it out yourself, you can always buy the new Guitar World. I
>digress...
Yes! Finally! I can put off learning Fly Like An Eagle and Dirty Deeds
from those old transcriptions! A fresh new one! :P
Korg, Blaspheming on McDonald's:
>their food in general tastes like shit, why do people go there?
There is only one more sacred eating institution than McD's (The Bell),
and you're getting close to my bad side with that post buddy. I LOVE
MCDONALDS CHEESBURGERS! Do not fuck with Ronald.
Speaking of gimmicks: aren't you named after a keyboard buddy? :)
>Izzy Stradlin and the Ju Ju Hounds...
Whatever happened to Izzy... I liked this album and never heard about
him after it.
>I wonder if ICED EARTH will be on the soundtrack to the movie SPAWN.
Didn't see them on the track list, but I can't be sure. It was a lot of
tecno and metal combos, like the Judgement Night soundtrack.
>I receive your digest everyday, but since I haven't requested for them,
>I'd like you to stop your mailing
Wow... Politeness on the Jam! That's a new one... :)
>From: Chad Martin <mart0312@gold.tc.umn.edu>
>To: "All 'Jammers" <ytsejam@ax.com>
>Subject: Duh
Both humor and humility in such a short post...:)
>Q: How many internet mail list subscribers does it take
> to change a light bulb?
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
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--
______________________________________________________________
"Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter..."
-Yoda, the Jedi Master
______________________________________________________________
Andrew Forcier
a.k.a. Buck Stodgers
Maintainer of the List of Ytse-Traders of Repute; To submit
names or request a copy, mailto:andrew.forcier@prudential.com
To view the list: http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/ytselist.txt
--------------------------------------------------------------
--List Manager--
The Peppermint Tribe, the Saigon Kick Mailing List
For info, check out: http://idt.net/~rmerri9/
for e-mail inquiries, mailto:andrew.t.forcier@prudential.com
**************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:56:25 -0400
From: George Bast <Gbast@Brickhouse.com>
To: "'ytsejam@arastar.com'" <ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com>
Subject: Re: DT related, but, no content
Message-ID: <20E3326156F6D011B44100A0240012E85C97@EXBERT.brickhouse.com>
>i dont believe this song has been heard yet.. the one they were talking
>about last time i think it was where are you now..which is not gonna be
>on the album at all..
Actually, Mike played this song at one or more drum clinics last year.
Of course, at the time it was titled "You Or Me" and it is/was
definitely more "mainstream-sounding", but sounded real cool
nonetheless. Anyone that was at the Sarasota, Fl clinic can attest to
that. However, I'm willing to bet the song has gone through some
changes just like the title has. :) I really wish I had recorded the
clinic, because that song and Raise the Knife are like a blur to me now.
George Bast
gbast@brickhouse.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 13:29:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brandon Elhai <belhai@drew.edu>
To: Dream Theater <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: Popularity sucks.
Message-ID: <Pine.PMDF.3.91.970728132846.576773218A-100000@drew.edu>
On Mon, 28 Jul 1997, Buck Stodgers wrote:
> >I had the money, I'd start an underground radio station
>
> The sad thing is, you can't even do this at most college stations
> anymore. Playlists rule the airwaves, and it sucks.
Not at my school (Drew University). There are several DJs who each get to
have their own 2 hour show once a week. Sometimes twice. The best part
about this is that we can play whatever the hell we want. I used to be
really into playing like 5 DT songs per show. Now I'll play only one or
two DT songs and try and fit other types of music into the playlist. I try
and be wacky and creative too. It's fun when you can play The Gipsy Kings
"bambaleo" and then start "the mirror" right after that. :)
Brandon
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 14:16:07 -0400
From: "Blevins, Mike" <BlevinsM@amsc.Belvoir.Army.Mil>
To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: 'merican music's sad state, and others...
Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=AMSC%l=AMSC_NTAS-970728181607Z-8077@amsc_ntas.amsc.belvoir.army.mil>
Adam quoth and writh:
>> if prog ever got huge, it'd suck
>> we've been over this territory many times before, about how we secretly
>> *like* the fact that prog isn't big, because the way it is, we can sit
>> back and bitch at all those other forms of less-than-*good* (whatever the
>> hell that means) that are getting popular while *real* musicians are
>> shafted by the whims of an inattentive public.....
>
>Agreed. I find it funny how we do that though, because 90% of the time when
>I put on music like prog that is supposedly much more "advanced" then
>what's popular people think it sucks. Either this means that the other
>person listening is "wrong" because my music is "better", or they just have
>a different opinion. Some people I might get to enjoy DT but most of the
>time they don't want to bother to put forth the effort to listen to it
>because they just don't care. It's about opinions people, music is
>subjective. DT may be more progressive, but does that really matter? Should
>it be required that more people like DT cause they're better musicians and
>write longer songs? Most of these questions are rhetorical, but take a shot
>at answering them if you want.
As someone who's had most of his favorite music be "outside the
mainstream", I can say this - throughout the 70's and(most of the) 80's,
you could keep a recording deal IF the label knew what you were going to
sell each time. Rush in the 70's is a prime example, as are bands like
Rainbow. The A&R people had more control than the accountants in those
days. Now, the situation is reversed - if you DON'T sell at least a
million, the majors are unwilling to keep you around. This is flattening
out somewhat, but I still see it happening.
Everything is marketing in the Ninties - it's not even opinion anymore.
This is what's cool, so it's what people buy - next week, when this is
cool, this is what people like. I've had conversations with "metal" fans
that went like this:
>> funny thing is, when prog catches on, if it ever does, there are gonna be
>> a lot of stories like Beth's Metallica tale......
>
>Exactly. I was at a generic high school party recently where a 16 year old
>girl told me to put on some Metallica. I put on Master of Puppets and she
>told me she just wanted to hear "the Sandman song". I told her to listen to
>this and give it a chance, and she might like it, but she insisted on just
>one song.
That's normal - I've reached the belief that there aren't one million
people in the US that really care about music AND like metal, so
anything that's platinum will cause this syndrome. With the music
itself, the more things change... but with the labels, it's a different
story entirely. I think it's about time for something like the NWOBHM
again...
2000, anyone?
>
>
Isaac wrote:
>I feel sorry for all the female fans of DT. They can never experience that
>wonderful, tingling sensation of blasting DT on the stereo and having their
>nadz rock along.
In that case, turn it up loud enough so that it vibrates the ovaries!
:-)
That majestic goon said...
> i saw something that made
>me think a lot.
That explains that severe headache you have today... :)
>
>as with all things, we tend to worship mediocrity and crap. gone are the days
>of trying to sound original- even in a bar-band situation. because a band i
>saw covered jewel, alanis, the cardigans, etc., they were considered "good."
>no attention was payed to how it really sounded- how well the musicians
>performed. they LOOKED good (complete with the token hot singer chick toting
>a tambourine, and your knicks-jersey wearing stud man), made the right MOVES,
>and kept a beat. if they could have at least played a tune of their own (as
>cheesy and po-ish as it may have been), they would have saved some grace.
The Human Jukebox Syndrome has spread from Holiday Inns and into the
nightlife...
>
>yes, it's a bar (the dublin pub, in long island). yes, it's cheese. but i've
>never seen so many people love shit as i did last night. no, i'm not saying
>they should have covered "pull me under" or "tom sawyer". what i'm saying is
>the cliches that so many bands i see (this also tended to be the point for a
>lot of bands i saw at the ny music fest last week) make me sick. this band
>(and any other) could have done their oasis, their gin blossoms, etc., but if
>they had done something INTERESTING (and i don't mean playing an evh solo in
>it- little things, like an intriguing arrangement, which isn't so hard to
>accomplish if you have half a musical brain), it would have been good.
But everyone WANTS to mediocre, remember? American culture is so weird
like that - we all want to be better than anyone else, but we'll
ridicule anyone who tries to be better than us. The Reagan Years
morality and mentality is starting to show up even in the music scene...
Bafu! (Bless you!) wrote:
>
>Dream Theater rules.
You know, I keep seeing this statement, and I don't understand - where
are these rules published? What do they relate to (other than DT,
obviously)? Is this some kind of game? How can I play if I don't know
the rules? :)
No, wait - I get it! It's a f*cking circus!
Chad wrote:
>Leaving to beat my skull into mush,
Use concrete - mush gives too much. Concrete makes a nice, satisfying
"thud" when you hit... :)
Did anyone catch QR at Nissan Pavilion on Sat.? What did you think of
the opener? (Just curious - we lost this competition...)
Mike
Division - DC Power/prog metal is alive and, well, it's Monday...
http://www.crosslink.net/~division or human email division@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 13:53:11 -0500 (CDT)
From: Christopher Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: I shot the TuPac
Message-ID: <199707281853.NAA19750@enteract.com>
.. but I did not kill Run D.M.C.
> From: "Adam Cook" <acook@tiac.net>
> Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2798
> a different opinion. Some people I might get to enjoy DT but most of the
> time they don't want to bother to put forth the effort to listen to it
> because they just don't care.
Hear that? That's the sound of the nail being hit on the head. People don't hear
prog on the radio. They don't see prog on the TV. For the most part, they don't even see
prog bands advertising for concerts. Does this mean that prog is good, or bad? No, of course
not. It means it's not being marketed. SOME prog is probably unmarketable... I can't imagine
getting little Oasis fans to like Watchtower, with all the screaming and the time sig and
chord changes. But some would have huge appeal... the Mirror, Lifting Shadows, Wait for
Sleep, SDV, or even movements 2 and 3 from APSoG could really do well... but they're not
marketed.
The fact is, unless it's jammed down their throats, herds of music listeners will
never hear or listen to, and by default, like Dream Theater or prog in general. Sure, Rush
and a few others have drawn interest, but they were at it when their music was new, and when
precision was key in music.
It does take effort to get into a lot of prog. You have to sit down and listen to
something until you understand the melody and the grooves... and then theres the complexity of
progressive lyrics...
The term Musician's Music is appropriate.
> of a band because of one or two songs. Dave Matthews Band is one of the few
> popular music bands with actual music talent and whenever somebody puts in
> their disc or I'm listening to the radio I hear the same 2 or 3 songs off
> their two albums.
It's an official ASCAP mandate that you can no longer have more than 2-3 hits from a
single album without legal reprocussion.
> An unusual reason for being shot. However this is also coming from a guy
> who hated APSoG so you know what that means about your opinion ;-)
You're looking to get flattened like a fucking PANCAKE! But this time, I think we all
know where Syrinx is coming from... there are a few bands out there that play EXACTLY what you
want to hear, so well that you're just mindfucked by the experience. That was what Symphony X
and Ron Thal did for me... I can only assume that's what Finneas does for Mike... that and a
few unspeakable Merlo-esque acts in gratitude for all the publicity Mike gives them!
> From: Joe Wright <jrwee@gator.net>
> Subject: 1ST DT SINGLE!!!!!
>
> HAGANAGAAAAA!
> This just in folks! A friend of mine who is interning at WEA said that
> he has a copy of the first DT single and it is (drum roll please.....)
> "YOU NOT ME". Here is what he said incase you guys think I'm an
> impostor or something...
Hmm... is this real, or does anyone thing this dude's chain has been thoroughly pulled
(I hope the former... the sooner we get our fix, the better!)
> From: "S. Borzilleri" <magellan@u.washington.edu>
> Because most humans love the taste of FAT. This holds true for lots of
> mammals. Lots of people I know make fun of McDonalds, but when we're on
> I-5 and none of us have eaten for eight hours and there's a sign for a
> McD's, they become strangely accepting to the idea of eating there.
The more fat you eat in your diet, the more you crave fat and cholesterol. If you
know anyone who's recently gone vegetarian for non moral reasons, they'll tell you (any I've
ever met anyways... my theory could be TOTALLY wrong) that they really CAN'T eat meat or
greasy food very much. You start to realize the nastiness of the slimey food you've been
eating for the past few years. Of course I just finished a nice pepperoni pizza... :)
> But why pick on Grimace? Are you sure you're not just venting anger at a
> helpless target? I mean, what exactly is Gonzo?
A Muppet, and a Weirdo.
> Cookie Monster?
A monster, of course.
> Sounds like the kind of stuff McDonald's puts into its food. Webbed feet,
> eggs, fat...basic food groups I guess...
The McDonalds Nutritional Octogon.
LATER!
- Chris
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:54:43 -0700
From: Adam Barnhart <adamb@cfmc.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: The Human Head Weighs 8 Pounds
Message-ID: <199707281854.LAA12379@main.cfmc.com>
Work's been a bitch...
>These are the latest Fates Warning tour dates, these should be the
>final dates according to Metal Blade Records.
>(as always confirm these with your local venues):
>
>08/23 West Hollywood, CA Whiskey A Go Go
I'm not going to this show, but the opener (an opener, perhaps?) for this
show is supposed to be Differ (or maybe they're still called DFR). Or so
I'm told by a friend of mine who produced half of their first record. I'm
just looking to get feedback from those of you still down south on the band.
My friend looked at me like I was crazy when I told him what I thought of
the band. They're not bad, but, to my ears, they sound like Korn. I'm told
they're SUPPOSED to be a heavy prog band. Ah well....
Five Gratutitous CD's:
======================
1. Rush: Presto
2. Dar Williams: End of the Summer
3. Galactic Cowboys: The House That Bud Bought
4. Primus: Brown Album
5. Charlie Haden/Pat Metheny: Beyond the Missouri Sky
Adam D. Barnhart
adamb@cfmc.com
ydnt85a@prodigy.com
http://www.cfmc.com/adamb
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 13:16:36 -0600
From: "KorgX3" <KorgX3@cyberhighway.net>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: Popularity sucks.
Message-ID: <199707281914.MAA02953@odin.ax.com>
>Woo-hoo! I had nearly forgotten this time honored instrument. Did you
>learn the zither too D? The two instruments created for the musically
>inept. Oh, I forgot the third: bass. Heheh..
It's real sad. My little brother didn't get the honor of getting a
recorder to play Deck the Halls at the festival of trees like I did.
Heck, I was privelidged to get to play autoharp during Silent Night. Life
is good. :) Remember how all the kids would fight each other for the
triangle? And it didn't even do anything. hahah...
>Whole note = open circle
>Half note = open circle with stem (vertical line)
>Quarter note = closed circle with stem
>Eighth note = closed circle with stem and flag
And I remember learning this in grade school wondering where the hell I'd
ever use. it. :)
>There is only one more sacred eating institution than McD's (The Bell),
>and you're getting close to my bad side with that post buddy. I LOVE
>MCDONALDS CHEESBURGERS! Do not fuck with Ronald.
>Speaking of gimmicks: aren't you named after a keyboard buddy? :)
My condolences in criticizeing the place that which ye may gather thine
stool. Just don't eat the pinballs, they burn your mouth.
>>I had the money, I'd start an underground radio station
If I had the money, I'd buy small island in international waters and hoard
thermonuclear devices, but we all have different dreams I guess. :)
Work sucks, thirst is everything...
KorgX3
KorgX3@cyberhighway.net
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 15:11:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Jeremy C. Hallum" <jhallum@bu-ast.bu.edu>
To: Her Binkyness <spazzoid@mit.edu>, Jon Parmet <jonp@mailstorm.dot.gov>,
Subject: FW @ Danbury August 6th
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970728150734.14285A-100000@bu-ast.bu.edu>
Wow!!
I just did a ticketbastard search for the FW show in Danbury.
Doors open at 6:30, and the tickets are all of $10!!!! (without the
obligatory $5.00 service charge). Holy cow! I'm there and then some.
-jeremy
+=====================================================================+
# grad student, Boston U. # "You're a psychopath!" #
# Boston, MA 02134 # "No, psychopaths kill for no reason, #
# Astronomy # I kill for money... no, that didn't #
#<*> Jeremy Hallum <*># sound right." #
#<*> jhallum@bu.edu <*># -Grosse Point Blanke #
#<*>jhallum@dreamt.org <*># http://bu-ast.bu.edu/~jhallum/ #
+=====================================================================+
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 2801
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