YTSEJAM Digest 2385
Today's Topics:
1) Helloween, Chameleon, Kiske
by MTeiper@aol.com
2) learning to live
by Matthew Sirois <ms014e@uhura.cc.rochester.edu>
3) ***IMPORTANT**RELATED INFO**PROG BAND***
by dantemm@erinet.com (Dan Temmesfeld)
4) ***IMPORTANT**RELATED INFO**PROG BAND***
by dantemm@erinet.com (Dan Temmesfeld)
5) Threshold "Extinct Instinct"
by dantemm@erinet.com (Dan Temmesfeld)
6) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2384
by James.Bustos@abq.sc.philips.com
7) Megadeth Faq/My web page
by Mark Smeets <msmeets@ibm.net>
8) Progressive ===> Regressive
by Sean Malone <malone@arts.usf.edu>
9) King Diamond
by George Kirk <kirk1740@mach1.wlu.ca>
10) Billy Sheehan- Niacin
by kristopher long <long16@matrix.newpaltz.edu>
11) Re: Prog vs. Symphonic
by Steve Chew <schew@tis.com>
12) The great "fix" controversy.
by Jeremy Kube <j-kube@nh.ultranet.com>
13) Looking all over
by Soul Madness <mcauburn@iinc.com>
14) own label
by strategy@45150.com (Jeff Keifling)
15) GERMAN "The Silent Man" CD single
by Glover <glover@dns.thewebcorp.com>
16) Jazz... Sort of
by Brian Henderson <Cyberburlap@icdc.com>
17) QR
by Pat Daugherty <pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com>
18) Re: Dio / booting
by "Dave Neff" <dneff@maaco.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:32:00 -0500 (EST)
From: MTeiper@aol.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Helloween, Chameleon, Kiske
Message-ID: <970324133157_-1637890758@emout16.mail.aol.com>
Howdy Howdy Howdy!
Thanks to Carlo D'Angelo for responding to my Helloween "Chameleon" post.
Wow, I never knew Weikath was such a freaking dick!!! It's really a shame
that an ego like that ruined a great band. Yeah, he may have gotten rid of
people he was jealous of, but in the process, he GREATLY diminished the
quality of music being created by Helloween. I really loved their older
stuff (like "Walls Of Jericho"), and the lineup during the "Keeper" I & II
era was the BEST! Ever since, with a few flashes of brilliance here and
there, the band seems to me to be grasping at straws to recapture their older
glory. IMHO, they are now just a shadow of their former selves. In regards
to Ingo, I knew he committed suidcide, but I thought it was because he had a
mental illness. (Schizophrenia, I think... or was it manic depression?) I
read that in an interview... I wonder now if the band was just trying to save
face instead of saying "Well, Michael Weikath told him he couldn't rejoin the
band, so he killed himself". Hmmm....
BTW, to the jammer asking if Kiske sang on "Chameleon" - yes, he did. Sadly,
it's his last recording with the band. I highly recommend the album, as I'm
sure you have read recently on the jam, there are some AMAZING tracks on this
one!
Laterz! - Matt T.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:40:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew Sirois <ms014e@uhura.cc.rochester.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: learning to live
Message-ID: <199703241840.NAA17443@uhura.cc.rochester.edu>
here's a question for all you fiends:
why would labrie say "this is something new we've been working on"
refering to "to live forever" on a 1993 boot (dance of eternity) when the
song also appears on a 1989 boot as well (consciously unreal)? might they
be trying to pass off old unreleased material as all out new material?
might they be (gasp) lying?
-ms
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:45:44 -0500 (EST)
From: dantemm@erinet.com (Dan Temmesfeld)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: ***IMPORTANT**RELATED INFO**PROG BAND***
Message-ID: <v01520d02af5c367842ee@[207.90.117.90]>
My next post is about Threshold's new album. This is a great prog band,
and it is something related to DT...not just mindless garbage that has
tended to take over the Ytsejam lately.
Later,
Dan
---+ +---
Dan Temmesfeld - dantemm@erinet.com / s1133627@cedarville.edu
"Home of the Galactic Cowboys Page"
http://www.cedarville.edu/student/s1133627/gcowboys.htm
---+ +---
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:45:33 -0500 (EST)
From: dantemm@erinet.com (Dan Temmesfeld)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: ***IMPORTANT**RELATED INFO**PROG BAND***
Message-ID: <v01520d01af5c35b3148a@[207.90.116.144]>
My next post is about Threshold's new album. This is a great prog band,
and it is something related to DT...not just mindless garbage that has
tended to take over the Ytsejam lately.
Later,
Dan
---+ +---
Dan Temmesfeld - dantemm@erinet.com / s1133627@cedarville.edu
"Home of the Galactic Cowboys Page"
http://www.cedarville.edu/student/s1133627/gcowboys.htm
---+ +---
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:45:50 -0500 (EST)
From: dantemm@erinet.com (Dan Temmesfeld)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Cc: jkramer@monmouth.com
Subject: Threshold "Extinct Instinct"
Message-ID: <v01520d00af5c300fc164@[207.90.116.144]>
I just got this from a friend in N. Ireland (traded it for a copy of
Saviour Machine's "Legend Pt I," another awesome CD). This is a great
Threshold CD!!! It's great prog metal. The first song "Exposed" almost
reminds me of IAW-era DT stuff- instrumentally.
I've only gotten through 6 songs so far, but they're great. This CD
doesn't have Glynn Morgan on vocals (as on Psychedelicatessen), but they
brought back Damian Wilson (as on Wounded Land, their debut). Not as if I
could tell any significant difference in their styles.
Richard West's keyboards are great, as is the guitar work by Nick Midson
and Karl Groom.
The only thing that sucks about this CD is that I got it today instead of a
week or two ago. This CD might be enough to keep QR's "Hear in the Know
Frontier" out of my car player for a bit. But I guess I'll have to wait
and hear what QR's new one sounds like tomorrow.
As for Threshold's "Extinct Instinct," here's the catalog info and the
track lists, plus a contact address for the label & band:
Threshold - "Extinct Instinct" 1997
Giant Electric Pea GEPCD-1019 (U.K.)
GEP, PO Box 23, Alresford, Hampshire, S024 9WE, UK
1. Exposed [6:26]
2. Somatography [6:25]
3. Eat the Unicorn [10:06]
4. Forever [4:35]
5. Virtual Isolation [5:32]
6. The Whispering [7:50]
7. Lake of Despond [6:21]
8. Clear [3:22]
9. Life Flow [6:00]
10. Part of the Chaos [10:30]
TOTAL TIME: 67:11
Threshold
P.O. Box 24
Bishops Walthana
Hampshire S032 IXJ
As for availability, I have no idea. I got them through a friend in the
UK. You might try writing to Giant Electric Pea and see if you can mail
order it from them, or find a good overseas CD mail order place
(Calif-based Syn-Phonic doesn't have any, I don't think...). FYI,
Threshold's other LP's are "Wounded Land" (GEPCD-1005D) and
"Psychedelicatessen" (GEPCD-1014), plus they have a live EP "Livedelica"
(don't know the cat. #).
Later,
Dan
---+ +---
Dan Temmesfeld - dantemm@erinet.com / s1133627@cedarville.edu
"Home of the Galactic Cowboys Page"
http://www.cedarville.edu/student/s1133627/gcowboys.htm
---+ +---
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:07:09 -0700
From: James.Bustos@abq.sc.philips.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2384
Message-ID: <97032412070940@abq87d.scs.philips.com>
DID EVERYONE KNOW THAT THE REASON KING DIAMOND USED TO PAINT HIS
FACE WAS BECAUSE HE WAS HIDING FROM DEMONS, OR SO I HEARD. IS THERE
ANYONE WHO HAS ALSO HEARD THIS?
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 12:22:59 PST
From: Mark Smeets <msmeets@ibm.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Megadeth Faq/My web page
Message-ID: <199703241936.TAA187916@out1.ibm.net>
Hi everyone
THe Megadeth Faq has been updated again. There's now a new
version of them. a Web page one, a text one and a version
that's 2 web pages long WITH grafix...that page in particuluar
is extremely BIG...so, give it time to load. The adress has
changed:
http://www.smartt.com/~jsmeets/stranger/Front.htm
If anyone has a link to my own homepage, that also changed, no
more annoying caps lock on my addresses now.
http://www.smartt.com/~jsmeets/stranger/
There is a text version and I can send that out to whoever
wants it.
Mark/Stranger0
*You must unlearn, what you have learned, only then, will you have learned something.
- Yoda, Star Wars
*I have learned, that I know nothing - Mark Smeets
*You have not yet completed your training - Yoda, Star Wars
Check out the Megadeth Faq:
http://www.smartt.com/~jsmeets/stranger/FRONT.HTM
My Page:
http://www.smartt.com/~jsmeets/stranger/INDEX.HTM
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:38:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Sean Malone <malone@arts.usf.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Progressive ===> Regressive
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.970324135015.27752B-100000@satie>
I've enjoyed reading everyone's definitions of progressive music, and
I thought I'd throw in my two cents.
The purpose of any kind of definition is to provide an objective
description of something; of fundamental concepts pertaining to some kind
of an existant. The problem that we often have in defining something that
we are passionate about, is that the passion creeps up in the definition;
quantitative words are given a qualitative connotation. A definition
should be quantitative - why? otherwise the definition becomes subjective
and suggestive, weakening the argument for it.
For example, the notion that progressive music, in general terms, has
more 'depth' compositionally. As a result we often equate 'depth' with
'talent'. And eventually, the word 'progressive' gets linked with
'talent'.
Another example would be the word 'progress' itself. We all know what
progress means, and for that reason, we feel that by naming something as
progressive, that the music adds and furthers an already large body of
work that's out there. There is plenty of 'progressive' music that is
self-indulgent, retroactive swill that is done-in by its own attempt to
'progress'. This doesn't necessarily make the latest radio hits
'regressive' if they don't present any new ideas. I am reminded of the
original, Darwinian explanation of evolution. Too many people today think
that when someone or something evolves, that it learns from past mistakes
and gets *better*. Evolution only means that it becomes something
*different*. Perhaps progressive music doesn't necessarily push the
envelope, perhaps it takes old ideas and makes them different than just
the sum of their parts.
When we call something 'heavy metal', we instantly
understand, in *quantitative* terms, what that music sounds like - the
tone of the guitars, style of singing perhaps, overall speed and
'heaviness'. But when we call something progressive, that is a
*qualitative* term also.
ANother problem in some of these definitions has been the switching
of cause and effect. For instance, people have often provided in the
definition, the fact that progressive records don't sell very much, and
that the audience is smaller. I think of this as an effect of progressive
music, not something that causes or promotes it.
I'm on the quite unpopular side of thinking that labels are a good
thing. people are always saying that labels 'restrict' the band they are
describing (to which I agree to some degree) but ultimately, it is the
only way we have of handling all of the information out there. A band's
music speaks for itself, but by calling it something ar assigning it to a
particular genre, it helps cut out the wheat from the chaff, else in a
record store we'd be looking in every bin.
I think just about every one of us has had an emotional reaction to
some band being called 'progressive' by someone to which we feel they
don't 'deserve' the title. That's why we're having such a difficult time
settling on a decision. It's not a matter of opinion - definitions are
objective. But a lot of people have been sensitive to some definitions
because they are so subjective.
Others have tried to take an objective survey of general attributes
of progressive music: meter changes, key changes, lyric content, song
length etc. There is no way to quantify these things into a definition.
Instead, I like to consider the frame of mind of someone who writes this
kind of music. Again, the above general attributes are the 'effect' of
that frame of mind, not the cause; that frame of mind *is* the cause. But
unfortunately, there is a necessary link to the 'purpose' of writing this
kind of music, which I'll leave alone for the time being.
To me, music that has been called progressive has a unifying,
underlying feature that is quantifiable in terms of the body of work that
exists out there - that progressive music challenges the listener. Our
minds seek order, and when we hear a 3 minute power-pop song on the radio
filled with hooks, our minds aren't challenged much by that; it's easy to
understand and make sense of it. But when you are going along at 200 BPM
in 4/4, in the middle of a 25 minute-long song, and then switches to 7/8,
our brains can't make immediate sense of that; it needs further
consideration. This consideration, I think, is equivalent to the 'depth' I
mentioned earlier.
The important thing about this aspect of 'challenging' music, is that
it doesn't automatically make the music 'good.' I just think that whenever
you are trying to define this, no matter how you do, just be careful about
how you *feel* about the music. Emotional responses are impossible to
defend and easily overturned.
I guess that was more like 4 cents.
sm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:42:59 -0500 (EST)
From: George Kirk <kirk1740@mach1.wlu.ca>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: King Diamond
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9703241438.A25014-0100000@mach1.wlu.ca>
To the guy who was into the King Diamond thing...and for those who'd like
more info...
His earlier albums are probably the best. I think Abigail, Them,
Conspiracy, and The Eye are definitive KD. The Graveyard sucked, and the
SPider's Lullabye was wanting, IMHO.
The early Mercyful Fate stuff is great too...I haven't heard their latest
album, but I own everything prior,and can vouch for its quality.
Have a nice day
George
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:09:31 -0500 (EST)
From: kristopher long <long16@matrix.newpaltz.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Billy Sheehan- Niacin
Message-ID: <199703242009.PAA12545@matrix.newpaltz.edu>
For those jammers who are into fusion/groovy/funky kinda stuff, i have a
suggestion. I was doing my show for my college radio show and I found this
cd by Billy Sheehan (unbelievable bass player from Mr. Big, also on the
Working Man Rush Tribute), a guy who plays a hammond organ (i think his
name's Novello), and this kick-ass drummer (can't remember the name).
anyway, from what i heard it sounds really good. Has anyone else heard
this? One of their songs is on that Guitar World "Smell the Fuzz"
guitarists that rule the world thing (also has stuff by Victor, Ace Frehley,
Robert Fripp). Just thought I'd mention it. Later.
Kris Long
"Look, up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a plane! It's my ASS!!!"
---the Gargoyles from Late Night with Conan O'Brian
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:12:25 -0500 (EST)
From: Steve Chew <schew@tis.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Prog vs. Symphonic
Message-ID: <199703242012.PAA21598@clipper.hq.tis.com>
>
>> Ok, 'KorgX3' wrote somtehing about Pink Floyd beingSymphonic Rock and n
>ot
>> Progressive. Just to clear things up: what's the difference? I live in
>> Belgium and we have just one word which is, translated, 'symphonic Rock
>'.
>> When i set foot on the internet, I found that most english-speakers use
>> the word 'progressive' instead, so i thought that the two meant the sam
>e.
>> So could someone PLEASE explain me the difference (KorgX3, you didn't m
>ake
>> yourself clear on that one, I'm afraid...
>
>OK, I was thinking that prog deals more with alot of experimented
>sounds, time changes, and very involved themes. Symphonic I was
>refering to as something that will use some of those experimental
>sounds (I count PF's early stuff with Syd as Prog), but symphonic
>sets more of a scene. Lots of thick textures and ambiance. Not a
>whole lot, if any time changes. Just basically I guess what you
>could still call "prog lite." Pink Floyd and Marillion are what I'd
>consider a "Genuine Draft". :)
>
Symphonic Prog is a sub-genre of Progressive, but it includes many
of the "classic" prog bands (Yes, Genesis, etc).
Check out the Gibraltar Encyclopedia of Progressive Rock for the
"standard" subcategories of progressive rock (http://prog.ari.net/prog/).
Click on the "A guide to progressive sub-genres" icon to see their
definitions.
Here's their definition of Symphonic Prog:
"Characterized by lush keys/synths and very melodic vocals and usually
written like a piece of classical music - i.e. "Symphonic." Different
from Neo-progressive by being much more complicated, especially in
rhythm or scale structure.
Bands: Yes, Genesis (early), Camel, Atoll, Teru's Symphonia, etc. "
I'd tend to agree. That's what many people mean by "Symphonic Prog".
Bands like Marillion (and maybe Pink Floyd) border the neo-prog and symphonic
prog styles.
Of course, the reality is that every person has their own definition
of what prog rock is. Mostly I find myself just wanting to hear bands that
I like rather than caring what genre they belong to. It's totally subjective
anyway -- if it's a powerful song or has a great melody then it doesn't
matter what category it belongs to (pop, metal, classical, etc).
Then again, the categories at least give you an idea of what you
might like if you haven't heard the bands. So, they're worth something in
that respect. Once you try many of the bands then you'll have a better idea
of what styles you like best.
Steve
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:41:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Jeremy Kube <j-kube@nh.ultranet.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: The great "fix" controversy.
Message-ID: <199703242041.PAA04416@hammurabi.nh.ultra.net>
I have a few questions to answer relating to the "fix" tapes and the
controversy relating to them.
First of all, obviously some people are misinterpreting my
intentions with this tape. Please re-read my mission statement. I
understand YOUR opinion please understand MY opinion.
Second of all, if you are a supporter of my intentions please e mail
me privately so I can keep my intentions off the jam and respect the
opinions of the other jammers. It is obviously that it angers all of them
that I would try to distribute this to jammers on the jam. Oh well.
Lastly, If you support my intentions I will set up a website and let
you know the progress with this intention. I will give the address out when
it is made in my last post relating to the fix tapes on the jam, thusly
ending my discussion of the fix tapes (on the jam). If you are a supporter
please send me e mail relating to the fix tapes and I will put you on the
list.
Lets kill this discussion, J
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 97 16:13 EST
From: Soul Madness <mcauburn@iinc.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Looking all over
Message-ID: <m0w9H3F-000B7TC@xcalibur.iinc.com>
In hope that someone may have some of these recording they could dub for me,
I might as well ask. I'm really not looking to trade although if need be, I
will trade for anything I have...I'd much rather pay for the cost of the
tape and shipping, etc. Heres what I want:
Anything rare on Warrior Soul.
Savatage- Live In Offenbach, Germany/Live At L'Mour
Actually, thats about all I'm looking for at the time. Please e-mail me if
you have any of these. Thanks in advance
Don Compton
mcauburn@iinc.com
Warrior Soul Homepage (now featuring a Whats New section, a review with more
to come, liner notes, lyrics, and info on rare CD singles)
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/5784/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 16:47:19 -0500
From: strategy@45150.com (Jeff Keifling)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: own label
Message-ID: <v01530500af5ca63e79fc@[207.79.6.169]>
>Here's a thought- why don't Dream Theater put out their new CD on their own
>label.
Instead of creating their own label, they could put out the grungiest,
nastiest sounding, poorly written album, get lots of airplay, become
popular, famous, and then put out their real album.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 16:54:14 -0500
From: Glover <glover@dns.thewebcorp.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: GERMAN "The Silent Man" CD single
Message-ID: <3336F806.176F@dns.thewebcorp.com>
I recently visited "Circuit City" which just opened up in my home town.
There, I suprisingly found "Live At The Marquee" for $16.00!! Which have
been looking for. It completely rocks!! Also, the German version of "The
Silent Man" CD single: The album version, plus the studio version of
"Eve" and a "Take The Time" demo. If I remember correctly, some people
were lookng for this a while back. If anybody still needs it for their
collection, email me privately with an offer. It's brand new and hasn't
been opened yet. Thanks!!!!
-C. Glover
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:46:54 +0100
From: Brian Henderson <Cyberburlap@icdc.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Jazz... Sort of
Message-ID: <199703241746.SAA20285@darkstar.icdc.com>
>This is a decent thread to start even if it has minimal DT content and
>could quickly decompose into a top-5 kind of thing. The really
>unbelievable thing is that the two best performances that I have seen
>are jazz. =20
Just this past Saturday, I had the fortune to catch B=E9la Fleck and the
Flecktones at Haverford College. Far-beyond amazing, mind-numbing, and
drool-inducing would be good ways to describe this show. Just imagine "The
Sinister Minister". Then imagine it with a ten-minute-plus-long Victor
Wooten bass solo... (He really beat the hell out of that thing!) And
that's just mere minutes of this 3-hour-long concert (w/ intermission, of
course). MIDI-banjo madness!
Thought of the day: Somebody should start mass-producing drumatars. They
sound nearly the same as a drumkit and aren't a pain-in-the-ass to lug
around. Nor would I have to take out the seats in my van... Naw, we
probably wouldn't have the technology-level required to manufacture a
synthaxe. Future Man did import the instrument from his home time, after=
all...
In summary -- do yourselves a favor and see the Flecktones, always wear a
safety belt, and mix Poprocks with cola.
Brian Henderson, Dean of Cyberburlaps
Cyberburlap@icdc.com
"Hey kid - don't forget your mohawk!" -- J. Balzarini
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:05:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Pat Daugherty <pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com>
To: Dream Theater Mailing List <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: QR
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970324180341.27481A@bdmserver>
I met Chris DEgarmo and Michael Wilton of QR on Saturday. They were cool
guys. While I was standing in line for over 2 hours freezing my tail off
I did notice a few DT shirts. Some guy did keep driving around the
parking lot with DT blaring...
Any other jammers make it to the 98 Rock (Baltimore) Hear... promotion at
Record and Tape Traders?
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Pat Daugherty pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com |
|=======================================================================|
| "Every breath leaves me one less to my last" --Dream Theater |
| "That is not an option, Mr. Mulder" --X-Files |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:03:13 -0500
From: "Dave Neff" <dneff@maaco.com>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: Dio / booting
Message-ID: <199703242304.PAA11616@odin.ax.com>
> From: the bitch <belhai1@gl.umbc.edu>
>
> Based on posts like this one, I'm wondering HOW LOYAL DT fans really are.
> It's good to respect a bands' wishes but it seems that some people on this
> list would jump off a building if Mike Portnoy told them to. It just seems
> that the people who are speaking so strongly on this issue of respecting
> DT's wishes think that they are missionaries and that their new purpose in
> life is telling us to honor DT. They're a band; not gods.
Nah. :) I think I see your point, tho. And maybe the root of this whole mess.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be seeing things along the lines of
us anti-booters being fanatical DT loyalists saying "His Holiness Pope Saint
Michael Portnoy has Pontificated, and these Heathen Bootleggers are ignoring
His Marching Orders!" (I can exaggerate too. :)
Actually, it seems to me that we are just appalled at the general lack of
respect, or perhaps better said, common courtesy.
- Dave (dneff@maaco.com)
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 2385
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