YTSEJAM Digest 2525
Today's Topics:
1) Queensryche Concert Dates
by Davidjon Sabetai <DAVIDJON@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
2) Response from Francesco Mescino (francesco.b.meschino@som.com)
by "Francesco Mescino" <francesco.b.meschino@som.com>
3) Precious Things, KM...
by zack@lsil.com (Zack Gemmill)
4) subconscious
by Eric Hansen <ehansen@apu.edu>
5) I am so depressed!!!!!
by None <"awake@pb.net"@pb.net>
6) the overall effects of the pulsing waves of music
by ernie@pananet.com (Ernesto Schnack)
7) I've been inspired!
by mamalookabubuday@juno.com (Scott Cook)
8) Re: the overall effects of the pulsing waves of music
by Jacktallica Thetfield <thetgyi@BGNet.bgsu.edu>
9) macintosh new music festival- ndtc
by WildKoba@aol.com
10) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2521
by Rpupkin514@aol.com
11) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2523
by ai292@freenet.carleton.ca (Gordon McFee)
12) Re: the overall effects of the pulsing waves of music
by Anton Max <madmax@andrew.cmu.edu>
13) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2524
by ai292@freenet.carleton.ca (Gordon McFee)
14) Re: the overall effects of the pulsing waves of music
by Anton Max <madmax@andrew.cmu.edu>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 02:21:38 +0000
From: Davidjon Sabetai <DAVIDJON@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Queensryche Concert Dates
Message-ID: <19970501022132.AAB19040@LOCALNAME>
>
>Tuesday, August 5th QR's scheduled to play the Mann Music Center in
>Philadelphia, PA, according to the Screaming in Digital page. On the
>TicketBastard website, it looks as if the tix have already gone on sale.
>Yet, when I called the local vendor (West Coast Video) today, they didn't
>even have record of the show. Does anybody know the lowdown on what goindown?
I had a similar experience. The Screaming in Digital page said that they
were supposed to play the Coral Sky Ampitheatre at West Palm Beach on August
10. I called Ticketmaster and they knew nothing. So I kept checking with TM
every week, and today I found out that tickets for the West Palm Beach show
go on sale Saturday. :)
Isaac
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 21:25:02 Central Daylight Time
From: "Francesco Mescino" <francesco.b.meschino@som.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Response from Francesco Mescino (francesco.b.meschino@som.com)
Message-ID: <19970430212502.4f5c240f.in@mail.som.com>
You may no longer reach me at this E-Mail address.
I've changed and modified my last name to Mescino.
The new address is f.mescino@som.com.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 97 20:31:24 PDT
From: zack@lsil.com (Zack Gemmill)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Precious Things, KM...
Message-ID: <9705010331.AA10910@tengs1>
Um, is it just me, or hasn't anyone noticed that
since Subconscious, that the number of the CD doesn't
always coinside with when it is shipped. I could be
wrong though, then fifty people here can flame me and
we could have a month-long discussion about it.
As for APSOG, I could care less that it is Kevin Moore
that plays on it. I like that the keys add something
to it, but I never did love him like 90% of everyone
here has always come off as.
And for Metallica... anyone anyone who really thought
that it was *not* staged after, like, the dude caught on
fire (and they kept playing, durh!)... should be put
to sleep.
(Just trying to fit in with what's been the mood of the
list for the past few months)
Zach
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 22:34:54 -0700
From: Eric Hansen <ehansen@apu.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: subconscious
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970430223411.0068929c@apu.edu>
How would one go about acquiring the "Subconscious" CD? is it still
around anywhere? What about copies of "Acoustic Dreams"? Thanks.
-Eric
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 01:33:04 -0400
From: None <"awake@pb.net"@pb.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: I am so depressed!!!!!
Message-ID: <199705010533.WAA19241@odin.ax.com>
Hello everybody!!
First off I would like to appologize for what I am about to do. I did
not want to use the Jam as a instrument for sale listing but I am
desperate!! I have a very depressing situation. Due to my current
finacial debt I must sell my favorite guitar. Yes that's right, I am
selling my Ibanez JMP100 (The limited edition model, comes with a
certificate signed by John Petrucci!!!) As far as I know there was only
100 of this particular model made (Please correct me if I am wrong).
Anyway, it is also hand signed by John Petrucci, and John Myung!!! I
got it signed backstage at a show in 96 (The Fix For 96 Tour). If
anyone is interested please E-Mail me at Awake@pb.net
Thanks,
Awake@pb.net
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 00:34:24 -0400
From: ernie@pananet.com (Ernesto Schnack)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: the overall effects of the pulsing waves of music
Message-ID: <19970501043418.AAA10481@mail.pananet.com>
ok, here's 2 comments, that might, vielleicht, in some parallel universe
kind of way, actually start a dt-related discussion.... but I doubt it.
After a long time of listening to DT, I noticed that other music that I
liked b4, didn't mean that much to me...and i figured out why. There's no
point of listening to them. IMO, a song should have a reason for you to
listen to it till the end. For example, a good example would be LTL, w/
middle section which slowly builds up to the super-feelingsioso solo and
ends in the cool WFS jam. But there's simpler ways like the end of the solo
on PMU. Notice those how those last chords just pull you into (under, bad
pun, sorry) the last chorus?. That' what i'm talking about. And it's present
also in many 3-chord songs.. it's all about good arraniging. In fact there
are certain prog groups that miss this point completely. All their songs are
basically verse-chorus-verse-chorus-long instrumental section to show their
unbelievable skills-chorus. In such caases, you could replace the instum.
section w/ a simple, in would have about the same effect. Of course you
can't put it in such scientifical terms either...there are some things about
music you just can't explain.
discuss
2 comment: It seems to me, that what sets DT aside from other bands is that,
instead of being formed of a singer, a guitarist, a drummer, etc..., they
are five MUSICIANS. By that, I'm not implying that any of the
aforementioned(?) instrumentalists aren't musicians. It's that all members
of DT (or at least most, I don't know 'em personally) have a generally good
sense of songwriting and arrangement ( which kinda ties in w/ my first
comment). And one can see how they have matured w/ that ( and they're own
individual skills) with time. Most bands usually have one guy who's the main
songwriter and arranger (Harris in Maiden, for example) and of course
there's the infamous producer.
discuss
/me prays this will actually cause more than one reply.
/me predicts it will only cause one reply, if any.
thankyouverymuch
Ernie
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 01:52:55 EDT
From: mamalookabubuday@juno.com (Scott Cook)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: I've been inspired!
Message-ID: <19970430.225421.8638.4.Mamalookabubuday@juno.com>
I was so moved by tonight's Ellen episode I am proud to announce
to the Jam and the world that I AM A LESBIAN. That's right, I LOVE
women! Not only do I enjoy the company of women I also enjoy
kissing women and making love to women and only women.
Thanks, I feel much better now :-)
Scott
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 02:33:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jacktallica Thetfield <thetgyi@BGNet.bgsu.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: the overall effects of the pulsing waves of music
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.95.970501015818.17425A-100000@falcon.bgsu.edu>
> After a long time of listening to DT, I noticed that other music that I
> liked b4, didn't mean that much to me...and i figured out why. There's no
> point of listening to them.
Actually, after I "discovered" DT, I really got into their influences:
all of Rush's catalogue and Yes' box set. I remember the summer of my
freshman year in college, it was a really humid, proggin' summer. In
addition, I discovered King Crimson via the 'Jam, and "Thrak" rocked my
world the way no album had previously before, with the exception of Living
Colour's "Time's Up". So, I think it depends on the listener and their
own musical tastes.
> IMO, a song should have a reason for you to listen to it till the end...
I've always been a fan of an album as a whole, rather than singles or
certain songs. Don't get me wrong, I'll probably take a chance with a new
artist or album because of something that grabs my ear, but whether or
not I investigate further will be based upon the album as a whole, and not
the strength of a hit single. When I first got into DT, I was a huge
balls-and-chunk guy, and would skip over the slower, more "accessible"
material. Now, I've come to appreciate and love it all, and it's a
testament to their diversity and abilities.
> ...And it's present also in many 3-chord songs.. it's all about good
> arraniging.
True, but sometimes I'll be in the mood for a raw, three-chord song. It's
about preferences. I like Matthew Sweet as much as Dream Theater, and I
don't feel the need to limit myself just because I'm a prog fan.
> In fact there are certain prog groups that miss this point completely.
> All their songs are basically verse-chorus-verse-chorus-long
> instrumental section to show their unbelievable skills-chorus. In such
> caases, you could replace the instum. section w/ a simple, in would have
> about the same effect.
Possibly, but maybe these groups choose to "miss the point completely" and
do it their way. By this criteria, ACOS could be one of these songs. But
again, to each his own. And, that's the beauty of medleys :)
> Of course you can't put it in such scientifical terms either...there are
> some things about music you just can't explain.
Unless you're messing with the space-time continuum...or you can make the
Kessel run in less than 12 parsecs...or you've finally managed to contact
Shockwave on Cybertron and are preparing the Space Bridge for more
mayhem...Seriously though, that's what great about music: you can be all
cerebral about it, and it's most effective when it's an emotion.
> discuss
Rhode Island is neither a Rhode nor an island.
> 2 comment: It seems to me, that what sets DT aside from other bands is that,
> instead of being formed of a singer, a guitarist, a drummer, etc..., they
> are five MUSICIANS.
Agreed.
> ...It's that all members of DT (or at least most, I don't know 'em
> personally) have a generally good sense of songwriting and arrangement
> (which kinda ties in w/ my first comment). And one can see how they have
> matured w/ that ( and they're own individual skills) with time.
There doesn't seem to be a compositional monopoly in DT and that's
refreshing. Sure, too many cooks can spoil the broth, but I'll take a
nice proggy, diverse broth with a piquant aftertaste over a bland chicken
soup any day. As far as maturity, it's a part of growing up. Some people
are disappointed with HitNF and Load because they aren't Mindcrime or
Master of Puppets. Fine. You can always go back to those albums. But
from an artist's standpoint you need to evolve and grow, and if the fans
like it too, then that's an additional plus.
> Most bands usually have one guy who's the main songwriter and arranger
> (Harris in Maiden, for example) and of course there's the infamous
> producer.
Sting wrote just about all of the Police's material, and yet I still
consider them a band. No matter how many (or few) composers there are,
you still need to perform and record the material. Even with Sting's solo
albums, he has recorded with a variety of musicians, but when I saw him
live last summer, it was very much a "band" experience. I guess it all
depends on the composer and his vision, and how his band chooses to
interpret the vision.
> /me prays this will actually cause more than one reply.
Me too.
> /me predicts it will only cause one reply, if any.
Done and done.
> Ernie
Hey Bert! Enough rambling, must return to constitutional law.
Sincerely,
G. Jack Thetgyi
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"When you play 'Daydream Believer' backwards, it says "Austin [Powers] is God"
-Peter Tork, Spyography
"What's Up, Jack?"
-Lars Ulrich, to me, before I asked James about the Rayderz; Rockline, 7/96.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 03:34:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: WildKoba@aol.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: macintosh new music festival- ndtc
Message-ID: <970501033423_-930881943@emout13.mail.aol.com>
hey, i was wondering if anyone in the nyc area has REALLY good eyes or ears
and has read or heard ANYTHING about this year's macintosh new music
festival. if ANYONE knows anything, please email me privately. thanks.
ytsegoon
**********************************************************************
david yoichi kobayashi
binghamton university
bd91014@binghamton.edu
"i am not born to drink the milk you pour for me...i am the milk!...come
stand by my saucer full of life and i will stand happily by yours. shake
friends...spill out and wet the floor...run run run out..go!...be glad to mix
with me and i will be glad to mix with you...and we will run faster into our
tomorrows." -the anatomy of man
**********************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 03:41:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rpupkin514@aol.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2521
Message-ID: <970501034109_-864611762@emout04.mail.aol.com>
In a message dated 97-04-30 05:15:05 EDT, you write:
<< I have a question for those who've seen it...umm...do we just call the
dude "Bob" now since he's had a speaking line??? Just a thought. >>
Actually, "Bob" had a spoken line at the end of "Clerks".
I guess it's a more general nickname like our very own "Silent Man" Myung!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 04:06:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: ai292@freenet.carleton.ca (Gordon McFee)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2523
Message-ID: <199705010806.EAA08352@freenet3.carleton.ca>
>> Somehow I'm not in the mood to fight anymore.
>Of course, he goes and says this after a post that's a mile long... :)
Well the post took me an hour. I was much more eager at the start
than at the end. Besides, I think I defended my point(s) about as well as
I'm going to, so there wouldn't be much point continuing. At least I
didn't apologize for it :).
>> very sad as a supposed representation of the average Dream Theater
>> fan who is more concerned about when the new album will come out
>> than in Savatage's reissue, Fatez' album ROOLing or SUKing, the
>> Ozzfest lineup and other things.
>Your definition of 'the average DT fan' does not coincide with mine. I'm
>interested in many things prog. If your perception is that the things
>you mentioned above are a sad aspect of the list, then maybe the Page
>Down key will cheer you up.
>I've attempted the last couple of times to post some things related
>mostly to DT, only to have them politely ignored by most (Thanks for the
>response, Andy!). Now when I see a lot of noise amongst what I consider
>to be signal, I begin to wonder. If you (plural) wanna see more DT
>content, insert some...
The problem is that as time goes on the list becomes less and less
about DT. Someone wants information about DT, they are referred to a FAQ.
Sure, a FAQ is great for information but it's lousy for interaction. For
someone in Ottawa it's a bit hard to post much DT content, as I am not in
Europe to take in any concerts, and am not in the US to go to any clinics.
So short of arguing over what album is best (which is just as bad a waste
of space as the things I have criticized) there isn't a lot I can initiate
relating to DT that isn't covered in the FAQ.. which is why I tend to
lurk. However you are right, with so much noise distorting a signal (good
DT content) it often seems pointless. It's funny how so many people who
were upset with the bandwidth my argument with Chris took often waste page
after page talking about stuff that's every bit as relevant to DT (ie not
at all). Anyway, I think I'm done here for a bit.. have a good day.
-- "To seek the sacred river Alph, and walk the caves of ice..." - Rush "Ashes and Diamonds,Foe and Friend/We were all equal in the end." -Pink Floyd "The sands of time were eroded by the river of constant change." - Genesis "Others steal your thoughts they're not confined within your mind"-DreamTheater------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 04:09:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Anton Max <madmax@andrew.cmu.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: the overall effects of the pulsing waves of music Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95L.970501040131.24634A-100000@unix17.andrew.cmu.edu>
On Wed, 30 Apr 1997, Ernesto Schnack wrote: >(long thoughtful message deleted) > /me prays this will actually cause more than one reply. > Well, it would help if you'd use proper grammar. It should be: "I prays this will actually cause more than one reply." :) - > /me predicts it will only cause one reply, if any. > Okay, I'll reply twice, just to screw your prediction. This is the first, brief reply, merely to state that I will try to reply again later, once I'm finished with this 10-page paper i need to write this morning.
BTW, everyone should read _The Poetics of Music_ by Igor Stravinsky. Not too long, thought-provoking, gobs of insight from a master. That's what I spent the last couple hours doing (again) when I should've been writing this paper. dammit.
-maximilian
Anton Max MadMax+@cmu.edu http://thunderdome.pc.cs.cmu.edu/aepithex.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 04:16:06 -0400 (EDT) From: ai292@freenet.carleton.ca (Gordon McFee) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2524 Message-ID: <199705010816.EAA08965@freenet3.carleton.ca>
>Gordon said: >>Somehow I'm not in the mood to fight anymore. >Well, isn't THAT convenient. Throw gas on the fire >for a week, and then bail out. Lame. And your participation in this was.. umm.. yawn.. Ok, if you'd like to keep this up, e-mail me your list of points and we'll continue the argument where it is better suited. If you're just letting your asshole take a turn speaking because your mouth is tired, TTFN.
>GO WINGS! Go Habs! .. er.. Go Sens? .. umm.. ok, hockey season is over :).
-- "To seek the sacred river Alph, and walk the caves of ice..." - Rush "Ashes and Diamonds,Foe and Friend/We were all equal in the end." -Pink Floyd "The sands of time were eroded by the river of constant change." - Genesis "Others steal your thoughts they're not confined within your mind"-DreamTheater
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 04:53:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Anton Max <madmax@andrew.cmu.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: the overall effects of the pulsing waves of music Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95L.970501041509.24634B-100000@unix17.andrew.cmu.edu>
Aww hell. I better reply now so I'm not turning this stuff over in my head for the next 8 hours when I should be writing.
> > After a long time of listening to DT, I noticed that other music that I > > liked b4, didn't mean that much to me...and i figured out why. There's no > > point of listening to them. > > Actually, after I "discovered" DT, I really got into their influences: > all of Rush's catalogue and Yes' box set. I remember the summer of my > freshman year in college, it was a really humid, proggin' summer. In > addition, I discovered King Crimson via the 'Jam, and "Thrak" rocked my > world the way no album had previously before, with the exception of Living > Colour's "Time's Up". So, I think it depends on the listener and their > own musical tastes.
Somewhat. I think though that the tendency for DT fans is to want what Ernie is suggesting. The song should move somewhere. Otherwise it's just piddling about. Now, it's okay to like piddling about, and I'm not suggesting anyone's an inferior musician or music-lover for piddling about, but I think the tendency for DT and their fans is to want to move forward. > > > IMO, a song should have a reason for you to listen to it till the end... > For me to be interested in it, certainly. One of my favourite bands is Led Zeppelin, but they have this song "Trampled Underfoot" which illustrates the exact reverse of this perfectly. You only need to listen to the first measure to get pretty much the whole song. Now, sometimes when I'm feeling particularly generous, I'll listen to it all the way through to the keyboard solo, but after that, what's the point? I've already heard it all.
It's a wicked riff though. Just gets tiring by the thirtieth repitition.
> I've always been a fan of an album as a whole, rather than singles or > certain songs. Don't get me wrong, I'll probably take a chance with a new > artist or album because of something that grabs my ear, but whether or > not I investigate further will be based upon the album as a whole, and not > the strength of a hit single. When I first got into DT, I was a huge > balls-and-chunk guy, and would skip over the slower, more "accessible" > material. Now, I've come to appreciate and love it all, and it's a > testament to their diversity and abilities.
Ernie's point can be applied to whole albums, too. On DT albums, there tends to be a lot of diversity, and the transitions between songs are very well done (usually...I can't stand the PMU to Another Day change) and it flows together and it moves.
As a counterexample (not a perfect counterexample, because closer listening reveals that what I am about to say is not true) FW's "Inside Out" sort of sounds the same from beginning to end. That's probably why a lot of people consider it one of their weaker albums. That's a first impression view of it, though, and shouldn't be taken as a definitive statement because, like I said, it's not true.
> > > ...And it's present also in many 3-chord songs.. it's all about good > > arraniging. > > True, but sometimes I'll be in the mood for a raw, three-chord song. It's > about preferences. I like Matthew Sweet as much as Dream Theater, and I > don't feel the need to limit myself just because I'm a prog fan. > This statement sort of implies that Ernie is limiting himself because he's a prog fan, which misses the point slightly. He doesn't like the simpler stuff not because he feels obligated to by being any category of fan, but because it just doesn't interest him.
There's a distinction that should be made between what I'll call "folk music" and "artistic music" (and it shouldn't be inferred from this that "folk music" is not artistic.) The folk stuff, which I'll apply to a lot of rock n' roll, especially punk, and basically everything that's popular these days, is by its nature accessible. It will reach out and sooth you or shock you, but either way it will make itself immediately known. It tends to be simpler so the average listener, who has a life and a job and stuff to do other than sit in a dark room and listen to music, can sing along, maybe dance to it, hum the melody while he does something, etc. This music has always been around, it always will be, and it will always be more popular, and it has an intrinsic value.
Prog will never be as big. Some prog bands may gain a huge following, because their are people who look to appreciate music as an end in itself and not as something to dance to, play in their car, etc. But in general, people have lives, and to appreciate "artistic music" you often need to pay it direct attention, which requires time and effort.
I think I just went off on a tangent. Excuse me. I think my point is something like this: people here get pissed at what's popular because it bores them. it fulfills a function for others, but for the Noble Pissed at Pop, DT fulfills the same function and much more, so they get sick of hearing this simple stuff all the time while the bands they like, who they consider much more talented, starve from lack of attention.
Me, I don't mind a lot of the stuff that's popular, but I don't buy much of it because once I've heard it, I've heard it, and there's rarely a need to own it.
> > In fact there are certain prog groups that miss this point completely. > > All their songs are basically verse-chorus-verse-chorus-long
Fates warning came dangerously close to falling into this trap on Parallels and Inside Out. I'm glad they dumped that format (although I think both those albums are awesome, they just weren't fulfilling their potential.)
> > instrumental section to show their unbelievable skills-chorus. In such > > caases, you could replace the instum. section w/ a simple, in would have > > about the same effect. > > Possibly, but maybe these groups choose to "miss the point completely" and > do it their way. By this criteria, ACOS could be one of these songs. But > again, to each his own. And, that's the beauty of medleys :) > No, I don't think ACOS would fit that. Every verse is different, every instrumental section is different, and there isn't really a chorus. While it's not my favourite DT song, it definitely gives you a reason to keep listening. Put simply, you haven't heard it all until you've heard it all.
> > Of course you can't put it in such scientifical terms either...there are > > some things about music you just can't explain. > > Unless you're messing with the space-time continuum...or you can make the > Kessel run in less than 12 parsecs...or you've finally managed to contact > Shockwave on Cybertron and are preparing the Space Bridge for more
Hey man, if you're a transformers fan, I've got some pictures and stuff you might wanna see. http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/~madmax/tf/tf.html
But I don't think Shockwave would be much of a music fan.
> There doesn't seem to be a compositional monopoly in DT and that's > refreshing. Sure, too many cooks can spoil the broth, but I'll take a > nice proggy, diverse broth with a piquant aftertaste over a bland chicken > soup any day. As far as maturity, it's a part of growing up. Some people > are disappointed with HitNF and Load because they aren't Mindcrime or > Master of Puppets. Fine. You can always go back to those albums. But > from an artist's standpoint you need to evolve and grow, and if the fans > like it too, then that's an additional plus.
But if you've got your fans evolving with you and then you suddenly do a 180, you sort of leave them in the cold. Which is your perogative as an artist. Unless you're doing it for money, in which case you suck.
Don't get me started on evolution vs. revolution. i'll never shut up. Read stravinsky, he says it better anyway.
-maximilian
Anton Max MadMax+@cmu.edu http://thunderdome.pc.cs.cmu.edu/aepithex.html
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 2525 **************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Thu Apr 01 2004 - 17:59:24 EST