YTSEJAM Digest 3004
Today's Topics:
1) Comments on Derek
by Shane Liebling <jusenkyo@uclink4.berkeley.edu>
2) Ytsejam T-Shirt?
by Shane Liebling <jusenkyo@uclink4.berkeley.edu>
3) UNCLASSIFIED:-LiTS
by Graham.Boyle.149036@navy.gov.au
4) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3000
by "Richard A. Rivera" <rrivera@zoo.uvm.edu>
5) First impressions on FII
by Nicolas Drouin <dron01@UQAH.UQuebec.CA>
6) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3001
by "Richard A. Rivera" <rrivera@zoo.uvm.edu>
7) The Jam (NFIIR)
by "Chad Allen Klunck" <cak6981@omega.uta.edu>
8) My First Listen
by DaveH <buster@ee.net>
9) Everyone should have it by now.
by SpectorZ <ehansen@apu.edu>
10) to get from Elton to the Spice Girls?
by bforst@busprod.com (Bruce Forst)
11) Windows sound and a new fan
by kylania <kylania@radiks.net>
12) The true meaning of Infinity....
by DragynLMC3@aol.com
13) Anyone else hear. . .?
by Jeff Hochberg <jeff@grinmedia.com>
14) stuff
by "Dalamar" <Dalamar@bee.net>
15) Are we there yet?
by Chris Ptacek <someone@prognosis.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 19:20:17 -0700
From: Shane Liebling <jusenkyo@uclink4.berkeley.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Comments on Derek
Message-ID: <v03007800b04e2810ce31@[169.229.75.60]>
Just a quick comment on what someone was talking about earlier, and that
was the fact that a main reason why this album sounds the way it does is
because Kevin is out and Derek is in. I was talking about Kevin with my
friend earlier and we were making the now classic comment "that he was
always trying to show off." And I think in a sense that heavily influenced
DT's sound, the need to show off. That is totally stripped away in this
album. Nothing on this album is there to show off, it is all there because
it has to be there and it is perfect for the song. This is why I feel that
it has to do alot with Derek. He has played in ALOT of people's bands, but
the one thing this does for him is make him knowledgable about what has to
be in a song and what doesn't, what is neccessary and what is frivilous. I
think the kays on this were awesome and really add to the emotion of this
album. Will comment more later...
-Shane
____________________________________________________________________________
Shane Liebling R "All of us get lost in the darkness,
jusenkyo@uclink4.berkeley.edu U dreamers learn to steer by the stars
CAA Layman and Ytsejammer S All of us do time in the gutter,
Member of a.m.m.o. since 1997 H dreamers turn to look at the cars."
-------------------------------- The Sites ---------------------------------
The Short Me - http://www.hotwired.com/members/profile/demolitionman/
The Long Me - http://www.earthlink.net/~mariachi
Cal's RC5 Mirror Site - http://www.earthlink.net/~mariachi/rc5/
Deutsch Hall's Webpage - http://www.reshall.berkeley.edu/unit1/deutsch/
---------------------------------- by Me -----------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 19:25:53 -0700
From: Shane Liebling <jusenkyo@uclink4.berkeley.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Ytsejam T-Shirt?
Message-ID: <v03007801b04e2a93656d@[169.229.75.60]>
What's the URL for the site for the Ytesjam T-Shirt?
-Shane
____________________________________________________________________________
Shane Liebling R "All of us get lost in the darkness,
jusenkyo@uclink4.berkeley.edu U dreamers learn to steer by the stars
CAA Layman and Ytsejammer S All of us do time in the gutter,
Member of a.m.m.o. since 1997 H dreamers turn to look at the cars."
-------------------------------- The Sites ---------------------------------
The Short Me - http://www.hotwired.com/members/profile/demolitionman/
The Long Me - http://www.earthlink.net/~mariachi
Cal's RC5 Mirror Site - http://www.earthlink.net/~mariachi/rc5/
Deutsch Hall's Webpage - http://www.reshall.berkeley.edu/unit1/deutsch/
---------------------------------- by Me -----------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 12:32:13 +1000
From: Graham.Boyle.149036@navy.gov.au
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: UNCLASSIFIED:-LiTS
Message-ID: <4A25651C.000D9B41.00@nschq-e-navy.navy.gov.au>
Surely DT must play LiTS live, it has to be up there with their finest
songs ever.
Why not get Derek to play a sample of Doug's vox on his keyboard ?
I kinda wish that I hadn't heard the FF96 version of Lines, I miss JP funky
guitar on the FII version,
but I have both versions on CD so............
graham_
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 22:28:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Richard A. Rivera" <rrivera@zoo.uvm.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3000
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.96.970923221622.35628B-100000@elk.uvm.edu>
On Tue, 23 Sep 1997 ytsejam@ax.com wrote:
>
> What exactly do you mean when you mean production? I only think of
> one thing when I see/hear the word production: mix of the instruments. Are
> there any other (technical) meanings to this word??
>
The role of a producer is a pretty grey area. IMHO, the ideal producer is
one who can draw the best performance out of you. By this, he should be
someone impartial who is able to seperate what works and what doesn't
without necessarily getting caught up in the politics that the band
members are prone to. A good analogy is a director of a movie. He is, for
all intents and purposes, in charge of the recording as a whole, which not
only involves working with the musicians but booking studio time, making
sure the budget isn't exceeded, things of that nature. A lot of paperwork,
in other words. Some producers really just leave the performances and the
songs alone and just push buttons. And on the other end of the spectrum,
some producers have a certain "sound" they try to mold whatever band they
are working with into (Mutt Lange, anyone?). Of course sometimes bands
hire one of these producers because they want to sound like another band.
Richie
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 22:33:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: Nicolas Drouin <dron01@UQAH.UQuebec.CA>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: First impressions on FII
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970923222032.16581A-100000@saturne>
After listening to it 5 times, i tend to like it more! But there seems to
be a lack of instrumental solos on certain songs... The band is exploring
new music ideas. The offtime signature parts are somehow missing, too bad...
The complexity is there, but could reach higher altitude...
Overall good album, i will take the time to appreciate more!
Rush albums to get= ALL (they are a big influence on this band!)
Nick
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 22:36:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Richard A. Rivera" <rrivera@zoo.uvm.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3001
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.96.970923222905.35628C-100000@elk.uvm.edu>
On Tue, 23 Sep 1997 ytsejam@ax.com wrote:
> Do you all know who Desmond Child is? He's a professional song doctor, a
> hired gun, a hitmaker, a guy that record companies hire to come in and
> "help" a band write a hit song, give them a little boost. He worked with
> Aerosmith quite a lot, co-writing a lot of their newer hits (Dude Looks
> Like a Lady, Angel, What It Takes, Crazy, plus a bunch of their other songs
> that aren't hits -- in fact, Aerosmith has more songs co-written with
> outsiders now than they have written by just band members, which is pretty
> sad). He even came out with his own album, "Golden Child," undoubtedly
> titled in sly reference to his ability.
Me again. He also has another solo album (possibly predating Golden Child)
called Discipline. Not bad, but more R&B than I was expecting. He's got a
damn good voice. Also don't forget his most famous and profitable
alliance: Bon Jovi. Livin' On A Prayer, Keep The Faith, You Give Love A
Bad Name, the list goes on.
At this point I'd like to say that I am most assuredly NOT part of the
"DT
> SOLD OUT" opinion group. But I'd be interested to know just what Child's
> role was in the songwriting process; like, did he just come in with a chord
> progression or vocal melody and the band just added it in? Or did the
> record company bring him in after the song was done and get him to "fix"
> the song? And was the band OK with this? I mean, they never mentioned it
> before. Sounds kind of sketchy. If any of you get a chance to talk to
the Theater boys, thru interviews or on tour, this would be a great
question to ask them.
>
I'd also be curious as to how that came about.
> And if Elektra releases that bitch as a single, well, that'll confirm at
> least their side of the conspiracy.
>
I'll put money on YNM being released as a single. You don't hire Desmond
Child just for shits and giggles.
Richie
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 21:32:31 -0500
From: "Chad Allen Klunck" <cak6981@omega.uta.edu>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: The Jam (NFIIR)
Message-ID: <199709240237.VAA27932@omega.uta.edu>
I have been faithfully reading my mail over the past 72 hours...including
'Jams.
And you know what I've just realized? There are a fuckload of people on the
mailing list, and EVERY ONE of them has a different opinion. I challenge
you to find a single jammer in this vast (infinite?) expanse of the world
who likes all the same DT songs as you, and doesn't care for the same ones
you abhor. (Note: this does not include those of us who like all DT songs,
simply because they are the musical maestros they are).
I love the fact that everybody brings a new twist to the music...things
others haven't mentioned hearing, emotions evoked, personal feelings, dates
acquired, etc. I love the camaraderie shown, the fact that I can find
others with the same interest, musical influence, addiction near me (or to
visit when I go follow the DT tour bus in a few months). I love the fact
that we can have an influence on the label and, to a moderate extent, on the
band as well, as we are (in my opinion) their strongest organized fan base.
I loathe the flames. I regret the fact that anytime I have the word
'opinion' in a post, its chances of being purged without being read increase
exponentially with its length. I wonder what the statistics are for people
who have NEVER posted before who now are enshrined in Jam 2950-3050 with an
FII review. I hate that for every attempt to bring humor or fun to the 'jam
(Ytse & The Jam, DT parodies), there will be three people complaining of a
waste of bandwidth for every one who appreciates a true fan's hard work in
expressing their love for a truly amazing quintet.
Why can't we all just get along? Each of us has opinions. And as much as
something bothers me, I resist the temptation to post a two-line quote with
thirty-three lines of "Fuck you, you are an idiot, you obviously have some
vegetable shoved in your auditory orifice, you have no taste" ad infinitum.
Of course, that doesn't include the six-line signature which follows.
If I wasn't such a long-time subscriber (even though more of a lurker than
contributor), I would send my unsub message today. There are, of course,
numerous informational, humorous, and excellent posts. I will still wear my
Ytsejam sweatshirt with pride. I will still promote my favorite band, even
though their label won't. I will forever be a Dream Theater fan. (I guess
I have to, though, as it's too expensive to get a Majesty tattoo surgically
removed. :) Not that I'm thinking about it though....nooo way. Gotta show
it to MP first.)
I am even resisting the temptation to post an FII review (see subject).
God, it's hard. :)
Anyways, this is my summation of recent jam activities. If you don't like
it...it's my opinion, so I guess that means it's not shit, huh?
Chad
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 22:38:26 -0400
From: DaveH <buster@ee.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: My First Listen
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970923223826.0068cd58@ee.net>
OK folks, this is NOT gonna be your average post from me. (Dave aka:buster)
I may something that offends some people, and completely does the opposite
for others. PLEASE keep in mind this is in the heat of the moment!!!!
I'm in the middle of my VERY FIRST LISTEN OF FII.
LINES IN THE SAND IS RIPPING MY FUCKING HEAD OFF!!!!!!!!!!
THIS IS FUCKING AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I knew there was going to be a big change in the style and sound
of DT on this album, and after reading the BULLSHITNEGATIVEPOSTS on
this fucking list for 3 weeks I **FINALLY** get to have my own opinion
on this album so far.
THIS IS FUCKING AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Can you not hear the progression of this CD oh ye of little faith??
I mean, WHAT THE fuck are thinking, jumping on here and denouncing
this?? I have 2 words for your asses: PSYCHADELIC BLUEGRASS.
I have one more for you: GROOVE.
And another: FEELING.
Oh, and for the guy who said *something like* "uh, i think mike portnoy
is pretending to do tricky stuff when he's really not. this CD is not
the tricky DT that I know" <---not an exact quote, but an asymilation
thereof. YOU'RE ON CRACK. I think "Lines in the Sand" didn't come with
your disc! Go buy a new one! Or go pigeon-hole some other band more
deserving of your low-level criticisms. Or even consider trying to learn
what the songs mean. Oh I know, that would require some effort, but it
just might be worth it.
Am I trying to be a prick? NO. I am absofuckinglutely THRILLED that the
band has matured to a new level and STILL produced what I consider to
be ANOTHER musical masterpiece from the MASTERS.
In since I've had to sit here and read so many quick judgements on the CD,
well fuck, I am just gonna go for it myself:
To those of you who made me doubt this CD: a big hearty FUCK YOU!!!!!!!!!
And I mean that in the freindliest most humbley opinionated motherfucking
sense of the word. Ohhhhh was thems flamin werds?? Oh gee, I guess...Iguess
..I guess I dont give a shit! Lets have at it!!!!!!!! Or at least you can
try, but I'll be too busy ENJOYING my cd for the next few days to even
bother playing keyboard warz.
There is some KICK ASS material on this CD, and I'm ready to GROW into
it with the band. If you can find a CD more worth buying this year, then
consider another fucking mailing list. Better yet, write something better!
Or better yet, try to envision this new material as a breath of fresh
air and a MIX into what we've already been FORTUNATE enough to receive
from Dream Theater, and stop acting like they should have written the
damn thing for just what YOU like. It is THEIR work and it shows a lot
of hard work.....and it's fanfuckingtastic. It's new Dream Theater and
if you don't like it find someplace to fucking whine about it where people
want to hear you whine about it.
Most sincerely, and *very* opinionatedly, and absofuckinglutely pumped,
buster
http://users1.ee.net/buster/
ps - I really like this new CD. hehe...haha....MUUHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:33:34 -0700
From: SpectorZ <ehansen@apu.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Everyone should have it by now.
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970923163334.0069f4b4@apu.edu>
So, to whoever said they liked Anna Lee. No you're not a cheese ball.
It's one of my instant favourites upon first listen. So for my two cents
worth. Sure they've changed. They've grown. I think it kicks my ass
harder with each listen, and at 78 min, it's starting to hurt a little.
-Eric B. Hansen
********************SpectorZ@aol.com********************
*
*
* There's nowhere to set my aim... *
* So I'm everywhere. *
* -Kevin Moore *
* *
********************EHansen@apu.edu*********************
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 22:06:00 -0500
From: bforst@busprod.com (Bruce Forst)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: to get from Elton to the Spice Girls?
Message-ID: <19970924030559828.AAA320@bforst.busprod.com>
I walked in to the cd store with my long sleeved DT shirt on and the clerk
goes "You're here for the new Elton John right?" there's laughter and the
clerk gets the cd off the rack behind the counter where they keep the new
releases, "Man, this is actually selling better than the Elton John!" Of
course I was suprised, I thought I was the sole DT fan in the area and I
didn't even know Elton John had a new one out... sheesh.. where do i get my
information?
Didn't Desmond Child help write some of the Hanson songs? I mean there's a
connection you wouldn't normally see! DT--> Desmond Child --> Hanson... hmm,
now can we get to the spice girls? Elton John--> DT --> Storm Thorgerson -->
giant erection ---> Spice girls?
can somebody do me a favor.. if there are any studio pics of dream theater
in the studio get those scanned in so I can see them?
current fave : peruvian skies
lighten up people!
.....
bruce forst
bforst@busprod.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 22:10:02 -0500 (CDT)
From: kylania <kylania@radiks.net>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Windows sound and a new fan
Message-ID: <Pine.SV4.3.96.970923220534.26546B-100000@sr.radiks.net>
> From: "Brian Anderson" <lrng2lve@frontiernet.net>
> Hello,
>
> Is that a windows (as in Microsoft) sound I hear in Lines in the Sand somewhere
> around 10:15? You know, that standard sound that you get when open a
> window. Sure sounds familiar. Anways, I hear lots of different
> influences on the new stuff . . . and I like it a lot. That's all
Yup, normally called chimes.wav, or at leasts it's REALLY similar.
Perhaps Derek uses Microsoft Keyboard 98? ;)
On a side note, I've been listening to FII MP3's all week at work
(much to the disgust of my techo loving officemate!) I got FII today and
played it all day long. Finally after about 4 times he looks up during
"Hollow Years" and says "You know, i hate to say this, but I really like
this song!" Another fan in the making!
Dave
-- Webmaster ITI Marketing Services------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 23:20:58 -0400 (EDT) From: DragynLMC3@aol.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: The true meaning of Infinity.... Message-ID: <970923231255_641644738@emout11.mail.aol.com>
..ls the length of some of the posts lately :} j/k OK, im sending this before i go through the zillion posts in my mail box, so if this has been mentioned already, forgiveth me oh high and mighty muckamucks of the YTSEJAM..... I was wondering if anyone besides me had noticed the abundance of sideways 8's in the artwork... Well, theyre not 8's they happen to be Möbius loops... anyway, they are the greek, or some such arcane laguage, symbol for.. Infinity! There is a transparent one behind the index, a pale grey one in the center of the book (with HY/BMS and the pic of Mike), one by the title on the back of the CD and the picture of the rocks (also on back) also has the shape of a möbius. Anyway, there is a bit of infinity for everyone... Make your own guesses as to where the binoculars come in... and the big pink thing :} (to me it looks like a fuzzy picture of a guy in a red shirt sitting on one of those weird pedestal things but he doesnt have the binoculars up he has them resting on his lap kinda) as for my quest for FII, i went to tower records in Nanuet NY (apparently there is another DT fan in rockland county cause someone came in looking for it before i did) but they had not yet recieved the shipment or whatever lame excuse the guy gave. The Wall did have a few copies out though, so I came home _happy_ :} As for my opinon of the music, i haven't had a chance to really listen to it yet, but what i have heard, i like... the begining of one song i swear reminded me of a Metallica song (one of the older ones, take a chill!) im not sure which one but thats just the association i got...
Anyway, happy listening everyone!
~Lisa
Forget assholes and nipples... ...Opinions are like cells; Everyone has a few trillion, and sometimes they are cancerous...
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 23:23:43 -0400 From: Jeff Hochberg <jeff@grinmedia.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Anyone else hear. . .? Message-ID: <342887BF.BD7@grinmedia.com>
Anyone else hear...
..Saigon Kick when the vocals first come in on NM?
..Steven Pearcy at the end of the first verse of PS?
.."King Nothing" at the beginning of BMS?
..WFS on speed in JLMB?
..the (obvious) twist on TTT lyrics in JLMB?
.."While My Guitar Gently Weeps" toward the end of ToT?
..one BRILLIANT f**king album here???
Jeff jeff@grinmedia.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 23:33:20 -0400 From: "Dalamar" <Dalamar@bee.net> To: "YtseJAM" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: stuff Message-ID: <19970924032844576.AAA329@bee-28.bee.net>
On the Desmond Child thread......well I think if he was hired to make the song more radio/public appealing (making a hit) well then he did a good job....you have to admit the chorus is VERY catchy (I find myself walking around singing "It's all about you......")...the song definately has the potential to be popular, and I, personally, wouldn't be happier....I like the song :)
Hollow Years is not "worthless"....it is a very well written song...someone mentioned JL's lack of vibrato on the song being a negative factor....vibrato is just an effect (just like distortion), it is used for a certain effect and I think if JL was "wah wah"ing through the song it would probably ruin it (just my opinion BTW)
I guess the only thing about the album I didn't enjoy immensly was what was going on during JP's solo in Trial of Tears - II Deep In Heaven .....I loved the guitar work JP was doing it was just that he was announcing every chord change that happened as they happened....he didn't flow from chord to chord....weave the story together.....it was pretty much Derek laying down the changes and John reacting to them....if he was a jazz player I'd say he was sight reading the changes....I really liked what he was playing though, I would have either just altered the way the changes were presented or how he went from one to the next (I'm not saying I could do better mind you :) )
In short......I love the album and hope they continue to grow and punch out some more awesome albums for me to buy (if they were to stop making albums, then my music collection would practically stop growing)
Take care
Steve - Dalamar - KatMan - MalletMan - call me what you will
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 22:38:22 -0500 From: Chris Ptacek <someone@prognosis.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Are we there yet? Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970924033822.0076daa8@pop.enteract.com>
Any of you who still don't know what a Chapman Stick is, or who want to find out more about what they look like, sound like, or how you can get one... all the info you could need is right here:
http://www.clever.net/stick/stickwire/
>From: Kevin Madden <kwmadden@pipeline.com> >To: ytsejam@ax.com >Subject: so, does it work *both* ways? > >Chris Ptacek spouted: >>I would never tell you that your opinion is wrong. I >>WILL however, tell you that _I think_ (that's MY opinion) your opinion is >>worthless, if it's based on 24 hours or less of being in contact with the >>album. > >So all of you who love the new album just couldn't be right! Your opinions >are worthless! You have only based them on less than 24 hours of being in >contact with the album. ;-P
Couldn't be right? No. Again, we jump along into the realms of assumption. If you ask me "Are opinions (positive or negative) about the cd worthwhile this early on, if they're merely to say 'It sucks/rules/is-isn't prog/is grunge, etc...'" then In a word, absolutely. Have you never loved an album on first listen, and then 2 weeks later not been able to listen to it? That's happened to me several times (over the course of 400 cds +). By the same token, I've bought an even greater number of cds that I didn't like at all, and then went back to, only to be completely blown away (Michael Hedges, ELP, Queensryche, and Images and Words way back in 92, just to name a few). You can't digest an album in 24 hours. You can only form initial opinions. Share them if you want, but they're likely to change at any moment. If you're only going to say you like the album, or are only going to say you dislike the album, and you're not going to explain in some detail, with examples, why you like/dislike the album, then you're not doing anything for me.
>From: "Richard A. Rivera" <rrivera@zoo.uvm.edu> >Subject: Poison (no DTC) >
As usual, I must bow to the overwhelming glam knowledge of the mighty spandex king, Rikki Rivera. :) I got my cd titles mixed up. What I was saying is still true, but it was of course Native Tongue, not Flesh and Blood. That's the price I pay for selling those cds. :)
Christopher W. Ptacek IRC: Madsman Tech Support EnterAct, L.L.C. http://www.enteract.com http://www.prognosis.com/madsman
"You can be a dreamer You can be your dream come true Let imagination lead Reality will follow through" - Michael Hedges
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 3004 **************************
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