YTSEJAM Digest 3012
Today's Topics:
1) those DAMN MONKS...
by JB <beamup@vt.edu>
2) Re: I know who the blurred out dude is on FII!
by Anton Max <madmax@andrew.cmu.edu>
3) UAGM
by Francisco Miguel <f.miguel@mail.telepac.pt>
4) Re: two questions
by eckie@asu.edu
5) Re: FII helps you get dates. :)
by eckie@asu.edu
6) Re: my nipples of FII
by eckie@asu.edu
7) Re: This breath brought to you by....
by eckie@asu.edu
8) James' voice
by Jim Beavens <jbeavens@ichips.intel.com>
9) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3011
by Jeremy Ulrey <bangyrheadmf@geocities.com>
10) Re: King Theater/Dream Crimson
by Jon Byrne <rael@access.mountain.net>
11) Re: Cheers to Kevin Moore!!
by dantemm@erinet.com (Dan Temmesfeld)
12) Showing Off
by Jeremy Ulrey <bangyrheadmf@geocities.com>
13) Re: Cheers to Kevin Moore!!
by Damon Fibraio <damon@shell.monmouth.com>
14) Good news for DT clones (everyone wins with new DT)
by "Brandon Vaughn" <bvaughn@snowhill.com>
15) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3009
by ASHUSTER@LOYOLA.EDU
16) FII Thoughts
by "James Bennett" <rycher@thegrid.net>
17) NFIIR (just more observations)
by "The Artist Formerly Known As woot" <woot@crypted.com>
18) Re: my nipples of FII
by "Michael G. Jones" <mgjones@Mcs.Net>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 19:20:24 -0400
From: JB <beamup@vt.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: those DAMN MONKS...
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970924192024.007c7b10@192.168.255.1>
I think I'm hearing them now in the chorus of Burning My Soul... kinda
backup singing to LaBrie (on the words "Burning my soul")... Don't think
it's JP/MP/DS backing vocals.. theres too much sound depth in there...
Anyway, I guess since everyones posting about the positives/negatives, I
should balance my positives a little with *MY ONLY CRITICISM"... The
coolest thing to me about DT in the previous albums was a thought, "man, I
could never play/write that shit"... (with the exception of maybe something
like WFS or Surrounded, Silent Man or Space-dye Vest)... less so in this
album... many of these songs don't sound as difficult... or technically
impressive as the IaW, Awake predecessors... THIS IS NOT A FAULT... I'm
just not as awed by their intricate sounds... In this album, I'm saying
"man, I could never make it sound that good"... there's many nuances in
this album that keep me on the edge of my seat. I love this album to
death, but there need to be a few more like HK, ANM, and LitS....
FII is IMO still the best album of the year.
Jason
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Jason Brindel
Computer Engineering '97
Virginia Tech
beamup@vt.edu
http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/beamup
(540)961-7262
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 19:30:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: Anton Max <madmax@andrew.cmu.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: I know who the blurred out dude is on FII!
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95L.970924192718.3972B-100000@unix18.andrew.cmu.edu>
On Wed, 24 Sep 1997, Greg R. Lee wrote:
> The blurred out guy on the CD sleeve is Kevin Moore, looking back at
> the stupidest thing he has ever done!
>
Yes, it would have been much wiser for Kevin to just stay in a band that
demanded all his time and was making music that he wasn't interested in,
instead of going for all that "be true to yourself" nonsense.
Still waiting for Chromakey...
-maximilian
Anton Max
MadMax+@cmu.edu
http://thunderdome.pc.cs.cmu.edu/aepithex.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 00:49:59 +0200
From: Francisco Miguel <f.miguel@mail.telepac.pt>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: UAGM
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970924224959.00664f80@mail.telepac.pt>
Can anyone tell me the what is the chord progression the synth plays
on the UAGM guitar solo?
(-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-)
( ___ )
( ___ | ___ Francisco Miguel )
( | * | * | (FleXable) )
( *| | |* )
( * |\ /|\ /| * f.miguel@mail.telepac.pt )
( * | \ / | \ / | * )
( * | \ / | \ / | * * )
( * | / | \ | * )
( * | / \ | / \ | * "Tonight I'll still be lying here )
( *| / \ | / \ |* Surrounded in all the light" )
( _|_ * \|/ * _|_ )
( _|_ DREAM THEATER )
( )
(-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:02:42 -0700 (MST)
From: eckie@asu.edu
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: two questions
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970924150154.6513A-100000@general3.asu.edu>
> Hasn't anyone compared the first few seconds of Hollow Years to the first
> few seconds of Bleeding Me from Metallica's Load album? Shrug...people
> probably have...alright..
You mean the intro to Peruvian Skies, right?
~Eckie takes the leech that's bleeding him and gives it to a Green Day fan
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:18:35 -0700 (MST)
From: eckie@asu.edu
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: FII helps you get dates. :)
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970924151710.6513D-100000@general3.asu.edu>
> > radio stations, and I direct her to Mike Bahr's site so she can get hold
> of
> > some DT bootlegs, and start to leave -- when she asks me to wait a
> second,
> > and asks if I'm doing anything that night!
...you got a date by buying a Dream Theater album??? Damn, I gotta move
there!!!
~Eckie Theatre
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:20:42 -0700 (MST)
From: eckie@asu.edu
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: my nipples of FII
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970924151934.6513E-100000@general3.asu.edu>
> like it, like i did w/ awake. but right now i just dont feel like there's
> a Scarred or Voices on FII, ya know? a couple of the songs sound like
Well, DUH! This isn't Awake!
It's Fucking Into Infinity! I mean, Falling....
~Eckie 'n his friggin' 2 liners
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:24:00 -0700 (MST)
From: eckie@asu.edu
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: This breath brought to you by....
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970924152248.6513F-100000@general3.asu.edu>
> I bow to superior ears. Not only can he hear that there is someone
> breathing there, but he can *actually tell WHO IT IS*!!! :)
>
> And, just out of curiosity, exactly how do you know it's Derek?
>
Remember that gay thread on the jam a while back? I make no further
comments..... >;^D
~Okay, this is Eckie's last one for the afternoon
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 17:14:27 -0700
From: Jim Beavens <jbeavens@ichips.intel.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: James' voice
Message-ID: <199709250014.RAA29571@ichips.intel.com>
hazzy wrote:
>Oh one more thing. Has anyone noticed the complete lack of tremelo/vabrado in
>JLB's voice? I think that SUX!
Finally, somebody else comments on this. I thought I was the only one
that was bugged by this. I mentioned this in my list of random thoughts
on the album yesterday, but it deserves its own thread.
The lack of JLB's vibratto is the single biggest problem I have with
this album. The slow songs suffer immeasurably because of it (and yes,
this is IMO). His voice is just so _plain_ without it! It's like he's
holding back all of that talent he has. WHY? I'm curious to know if
this was the producer's suggestion, or if this is just another way of
him experimenting with his voice, ala "growling" on Awake (which I
actually didn't mind). If it's the latter, I see it a dismal failure.
I'm surprised all of those FII haters (which I am NOT one of, btw) haven't
jumped on this. All of you guitar/drum/bass/keyboard players would
certainly yell loud and clear if you noticed a perceptible simplification
or "dumbing down" of a particular band member's performance, and yet that's
exactly what I think of whenever I hear James hold out a long note and
not utilize that beautiful, natural-sounding vibratto.
Don't get me wrong, the entire album is a musical masterpiece, as far as
the songwriting and the instrumental performances are concerned. However
so far I would have to rate the vox on this album down near WDADU (not
quite that bad, but close).
Just one of millions of opinions I'm sure...
Jim
-- Jim Beavens <jbeavens@ichips.intel.com> | If I had a witty remark that MD6 Design Engineer, Intel Corp, Hillsboro OR | would better the lives of my -=(UDIC)=- Subconscious Dragon -=(UDIC)=- | fellow mankind, do you really ** I don't speak for Intel ** | think I would put it HERE?------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 19:17:37 -0700 From: Jeremy Ulrey <bangyrheadmf@geocities.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3011 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970924191737.007d2480@mail1.amaonline.com>
Someone wrote:
<italic>7) Too much "this sounds like X." I heard Chili Peppers, I heard Vai, I
heard Crimson, I heard Floyd, I heard Zeppelin, I heard Chris Isaak, I
heard old DT sounds and riffs rehashed (Bombay VIndaloo, Another Hand).
Maybe I'm being too demanding, but what I always liked about a new DT was
that it would give me something I hadn't heard before (although maybe
someone will say that's just cuz I don't listen to Rush or Yes.)
</italic>
That's exactly the impression I got throughout the entire album- very little originality, as if the band were trying to incorporate new influences but had to settle for borrowing other people's styles outright. Now before I go on I must admit that I'm not one of these sycophantic fans that Dream Theater seems to attract, in fact they're not even one of my top-tier favorite bands; and it's not that I just don't "get it". I have an extremely varied listening background to which to compare DT to, and I just don't feel that they're living up to their potential. In particular, Jame LaBrie has a great voice (I wouldn't say incredible), but he only has two modes of singing- he bellows at the top of his lungs during the heavy parts and he sings softly, but with no real emotion, during the slow parts. The problem is he has no emotional inflection in his singing at all- no subtlety or variation, which makes it really hard for me to get too passionate about the music. The sad fact is there are many singers with far lesser pipes that do a better job expressing themselves than James LaBrie. =20
Other than the obvious derivative influences, I also felt that too many of the songs on the new album were little better than dressed up AOR tunes- the kind of stuff I expected out of the new Genesis album.=20 <italic>Anna Lee</italic> could have easily been written by Styx. I know I heard Derek trying to be Jon Lord, after which the whole band broke into Deep Purple mode. The only thing is, the songwriting quality wasn't even up to these other bands standards. If <italic>Anna Lee</italic> had been written by Styx it damn sure wouldn't have shown up on their greatest hits album. Anyway, I'm probably wasting my time writing all of this, as most of the posts I read on this list are by those that seem to feel that Dream Theater can do no wrong (big parallel with <underline>Load</underline> fans there). Others say that they're open to other people's opinions, but often in a way that implies that other person's opinion is misinformed and you're just being a hell of a guy humoring them. But, nevertheless, writing things down- seeing it in print- helps me collect my thoughts, so even if nobody on this list derived any pleasure or meaning from my little post, I did. And hey, it's healthy to have your idols lambasted from time to time.
Jeremy Ulrey
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 20:41:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Byrne <rael@access.mountain.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: King Theater/Dream Crimson Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970924204218.228f6a9c@access.mountain.net>
At 10:47 AM 9/24/97 -0700, Rahul Ananda wrote: >Actually, it >does more than remind me of King Crimson, it IS King Crimson. It's >palyed a little faster, but the melody is REMARKABLY similar to >"Discipline" from the album of the same name.
>Anyone else catch this similarity? I've played this for my band and >the first thing my bassist said was..."Whoa, Crimson shit."
No kidding. I see the same idea at the beginning of "ANM" that underlies "Frame by Frame" and "The Sheltering Sky" from _Discipline_.
Jonathan Byrne, 2L; WVU Collge of Law Album Reviews, Race Results, Commentary, and more at: http://access.mountain.net/~rael/home.htm ----------------------------------------------------------- "A daily dose of eMpTyV Will flush your mind right down the drain." -Mike Portnoy, "Just Let Me Breathe", Dream Theater
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 20:51:59 -0400 (EDT) From: dantemm@erinet.com (Dan Temmesfeld) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Cheers to Kevin Moore!! Message-ID: <v01520d00b04f2e2cbcc9@[207.90.119.18]>
>The glam tendencies are gone!!! WOOHOO!! >Thanks for leaving, Kev!!!
um.. i doubt that had anything to do with Kevin leaving. the glam tendencies were going out on Awake, and Kevin was very much there. plus, his style was going more towards an industrial/piano thing anyway... quite divergent from DT- which is why he left.
i'd say the most glam part of DT has always been LaBrie... and he's finally knowing when to not sing so flagrantly-hair-bandish on FII...
Dan
---+ +--- Dan Temmesfeld - dantemm (at) erinet (dot) com Galactic Cowboys on the Web...muh!? http://www.cedarville.edu/student/s1133627/gcowboys.htm ---+ +---
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 19:55:47 -0700 From: Jeremy Ulrey <bangyrheadmf@geocities.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Showing Off Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970924195547.007d38e0@mail1.amaonline.com>
Someone wrote:
<italic>I totally disagree with the KM show-off comment.
</italic>What the hell is wrong with showing off? If you
define showing off as just playing fast without
maintaining the song structure, than I'd have to
argue that that's not really showing off at all,
just bad taste. But I'm surprised to hear comments
on this list of all places that imply that a
person should have to apologize for being able
to play their instruments well. As if Dream
Theater or any other band should have to put out
10 slow, watered down Kansas rejects to justify
one barn burning solo.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 20:58:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Damon Fibraio <damon@shell.monmouth.com> To: "Vincent G. LuPone" <vgl@syspac.com> Subject: Re: Cheers to Kevin Moore!! Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.970924205832.5511B-100000@shell.monmouth.com>
Can you justify that statement? Glam tendencies on Kevin More? How? I don't understand.
Reach Damon Fibraio at damon@shell.monmouth.com keyboardist, vocalist, radio personality Deviant of Reality All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers learn to steer by the stars All of us do time in the gutter, dreamers turn to look at the cars. Neil Peart of Rush
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 20:53:04 -0500 From: "Brandon Vaughn" <bvaughn@snowhill.com> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Good news for DT clones (everyone wins with new DT) Message-ID: <199709250159.UAA04287@frost.snowhill.com>
I've been listening to FII...I think it is a great album. But a radical departure from what I think of when I think of DT. Some points I like: vocal harmonies (about time), Myung up in the mix (about time), Petrucci's clean phase and wah guitar parts, more groove in the music, more maturity in the song structures, DOUG PINNICK (though I wish they would have given him more to sing than that!), the slower songs are more powerful (Peruvian Skies, Hollow Years, and Anna Lee are just powerful -- of course so were Surrounded, Wait for Sleep, Space Dye Vest, and Voices -- but these are powerful in the sense of a King's X ballad -- very soulful, not technical).
The things I miss: blatant time sig shifts (sure there are some on there, just not in your face), Petrucci's old distorted guitar tone (this one sounds too much like a distortion pedal at times...then at times his sound makes me think that it came from heaven itself...but his clean tones with phase and wah rule!), Sherinian's volume (he seems real low in the mix at times . . . maybe he plugged into the channel that said Myung and Myung plugged into Sherinian's channel . . . because the volume of the bass and keyboard seem to have switched on this album), the technical twin solo runs between guitar and keyboard (correct me if I'm wrong, but I only heard one or two _brief_ runs of the like on the album).
I have no problem if DT decide to head in a new direction (like what I think really matters to them anyway :) . The songs on this CD are great, and they would do well in a less prog direction. But no band can pull off the type of technical mastery in song like DT did on I&W and Awake.
Kind of ironic how bands like Lemur Voice, Shadow Gallery, Altura, World of Silence, etc have been majorly bashed at times for being clones of DT. I guess they don't have to worry about that anymore. They have an original sound now!
\\||// ~~..'~ ( \ ) Brandon Vaughn \ c/ __\/__ "The Mad Tabber" / \ < . _ \ bvaughn@snowhill.com \ `\ \ -' / \ \ ,,,_ vaughn_b@popmail.firn.edu >|""O[|||||nn[:::< /_,--- ._\ '''''~ ~ | | | | |
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:44:42 -0500 (EST) From: ASHUSTER@LOYOLA.EDU To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3009 Message-ID: <01IO0Y9967NS00RNN5@LOYOLA.EDU>
greetings...
i love the new dream theater album. it kicks -- myself, personally, i really really really like this production a lot MORE than previous albums... but i am partial to the bassy sounds of kyuss, sabbath, and monster magnet... heh. dt has reached a new level with this one though...
anyways, are there any TOUR DATES????
if so could someone send them to me? or tell me where to find them? thanks.
reply directly to me... (ashuster@loyola.edu) or to the list if you really want to..
-martin
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 19:45:05 -0700 From: "James Bennett" <rycher@thegrid.net> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: FII Thoughts Message-ID: <01bcc95d$0776d0e0$c9673cd1@i574747.thegrid.net>
>>I hear a lot of Rush on this album, but nothing could be more blatant than >>the beginning of Trial of Tears. This part is La Villa Strangiato right >>on, and Portnoy even duplicates the percussion from it. I couldn't believe >>it.
I think you mean "Xanadu", and its WAY blatant!! But hey if you're gonna copy...... might as well copy from the best right?
>>I do really dig some of Derek's parts, but for the >>majority, I don't like the sounds he uses.
I agree with this too, some of the sounds just dont seem to fit the music. I like his parts a lot, its just that the sound choice is kinda bizarre at times...
The drum sound, and in particular the snare at times I find annoying at best. Technically and musically I love MP Also in general the production, again that keeps coming up a lot of people have mentioned that. I think Awake sound quality wise was WAY better, and the production I liked a lot more.
DONT GET ME WRONG!!! I LOVE THE ALBUM. (still needs to grow on me though)
James
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 20:40:55 -0600 From: "The Artist Formerly Known As woot" <woot@crypted.com> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: NFIIR (just more observations) Message-ID: <199709250245.UAA20600@mailmx.micron.net>
Well I busted out the headphones and gave FII yet another listen and have a few more observations:
1. PS is busy! everybody get out your headphones for this one. The whole first half of this song has all sorts of cool stuff goin on.
2. MP's HH rides make me all giddy. The bridge of LitS and The chorus of TAMP are the more noticable places. It's all Korg's fault. Ever since he pointed out the HH rides on "The Thirst" they are just my favorite thing drum-wise.
3. The Bridge of TAMP is very busy also. With the triangle and JM's very cool bass-sound (is that the stick again?) there's a ton of stuff there.
4. The BMS solo is actually guitar and keys. The first half is JP playing with a keys patch, and the second half is DS playing with a guitar patch. The transition is flawless.
5. JLMB a few seconds before and after 4:00 there is a wicked "dueling guitars" effect that I didn't catch without headphones.
6. the door slamming at the beginning of BMS is intentional. I actually prefer all the really cool little short samples as opposed to the usual really long samples. The flanger connected to a match being lit, for example, after KJ says "wasteland" in ToT.
7. Anna Lee at :12 there is a seemingly unwanted group of fingers snapping, but it's right on beat so it's prolly meant to be there. KJ breathing at the very end makes a fun transition to ToT also. 8. It is my humble opinion that the chorus of BMS is in fact where the monks come in. Someone said it was just KJ layering a bunch of times, but I'm pretty sure it's the Monks of the Fuvio.
9. I don't think FII is quite as good as the light bulb, but then again, it's still growing on me.
:)
It rolls down stairs It comes not in pairs Runs over your neighbor's foot. It's great for a snack And fits on your back It's woot! woot! woot!
woot™ from Blammo!®
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 21:49:45 -0500 From: "Michael G. Jones" <mgjones@Mcs.Net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: my nipples of FII Message-ID: <19970924214945.37051@Mars.mcs.net>
On Wed, Sep 24, 1997 at 05:21:06PM -0700, eckie@asu.edu wrote: > > > like it, like i did w/ awake. but right now i just dont feel like there's > > a Scarred or Voices on FII, ya know? a couple of the songs sound like > > Well, DUH! This isn't Awake! > > It's Fucking Into Infinity! I mean, Falling.... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Interesting concept.... ;)
-- Mike Jones, mgjones@mcs.net _____________ Web Design: mike@biggorilla.com Progressive Genius( http://www.progmetal.org/ring )Progressive Metal Ring
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 3012 **************************
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