YTSEJAM Digest 3018
Today's Topics:
1) Cool 98 Rock (Baltimore) response...
by Steve Chew <schew@tis.com>
2) RE: YTSEJAM digest 3016
by "Tedesco, Matthew" <tedescom@BDD.com>
3) Mastering of FII
by Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br>
4) Re: The WORST DT album yet???
by Eckie <eckie@asu.edu>
5) TOUR DATES?!
by "S.D.D." <103430.227@compuserve.com>
6) Burning My Soul / ideal producer
by Arash Ashouriha <ashouria@KR.FH-Niederrhein.DE>
7) Re: my nipples of FII
by john jens <jjens@darkhorse.triad.net>
8) Cobain and Hoon
by Pat Daugherty <pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com>
9) waveform clipping and dynamic range
by Mike Olekshy <mmo@direct.ca>
10) Apology
by KillMary <caschulze@mindspring.com>
11) Falling Into Mediocrity
by "Christopher R. Merlo" <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU>
12) evolution
by psull@ici.net (Pat Sullivan)
13) Anna Lee's guitar
by Ryan Good <rtgood@students.wisc.edu>
14) Low Blow
by Chris Ptacek <someone@prognosis.com>
15) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3017
by KillMary <caschulze@mindspring.com>
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Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:21:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steve Chew <schew@tis.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Cool 98 Rock (Baltimore) response...
Message-ID: <199709251721.NAA13064@clipper.hq.tis.com>
Cool!
I just got this email from a DJ (named Stash) at 98 Rock in
Baltimore. It's in response to my request (last week) that they play
the new DT. So, all you Baltimore/DC Ytsejammers should turn into
98 Rock (97.9). I guess some of you have already heard BMS there.
And once you've done that, send email to DC101 (request@dc101.com)
and let's get them to play DT too!! :-)
Steve
----------------------------
Steve,
The station has officially added the song from Dream Theater.
You'll hear it soon. Did I tell you that you have good taste?
Stash
----------------------------
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Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:22:00 -0400
From: "Tedesco, Matthew" <tedescom@BDD.com>
To: "ytsejam@ax.com" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: RE: YTSEJAM digest 3016
Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=BDD%l=BDD/MSMAIL/001F4229@nt_mail.bdd.com>
> Oh one more thing. Has anyone noticed the complete lack of
tremelo/vabrado in
> JLB's voice? I think that SUX! I love how the live version of TAMP sounds
and
> how the old songs sound with Vabrado. I dunno, I think it adds a kind of
> subconciously proggish element to the music. Anyways, that's just my take
on
> things, the music itself is as great as usual and I'm sure the live
performances
> will be too!
> Personally, I like the fact that he doesn't use the vibrato on
> Hollow Years.......it definitely makes for more of an effect
> for me. Once in a while, James' vibrato is so prominent that
> it takes away from some of the songs - his vibrato is strong
> to the point where the note he holds fluctuates almost a
> whole step...
Lots of different ways to look at his voice. I'll tell you though,
thinking back, TTT comes to mind as an example, that whole section
"Unbroken spirit, obscured..." through "Fortune lies still in his hands"
through "Man must learn to cope," whatever, you all know the part, I've
always thought that maybe he belts it out to the point of whining...
I personally think that his voice is much improved with each album,
moving farther from that Winter Rose crap that DT rescued him from...
--Yet another Matt
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Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 14:28:55 -0300 (EST)
From: Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Mastering of FII
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.970925142717.2955A-100000@dijkstra.linux.ime.usp.br>
On Thu, 25 Sep 1997, Joshua Malone wrote:
> So just to settle it, I DA-ripped it onto my PC's hard drive and lookied
> at the waveform. What I saw made me cuss and swear for the next forty-five
> minutes. THE WAVEFORM IS CLIPPED! The fucking album is recorded way over
> the dynamic range of the CD. When they mastered the damn disc, they just
> clipped off the waveform at 0-db. Yes - the waveform is FLAT at the top.
> If anyone out here has any recording experience, you'll know what I mean.
> If not, think of mashing a sign wave - no curvature.
> This is UNFORGIVABLE, IMO. Whoever mastered/recorded/mixed this album
> needs to go back to school - needs to learn how to work a fucking digital
> recording system. I'm pissed off. DT deserved better than this!
Well, *if* this is true, then it really sucks (unfortunately, I
don't have FII yet, since I'll have some tests and I know that if I had
it, I wouldn't be studying).
It is really well put: Unforgivable.
[]s, Roger...
-- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - rbrito@ime.usp.br - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Undergraduate Computer Science Student - "Windows? Linux and X!" Bootleg/trade page: http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/bootleg.html "Life is ours, we live it our way (...) / And nothing else matters" James Hetfield (Metallica), Nothing Else Matters =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:53:23 -0700 From: Eckie <eckie@asu.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: The WORST DT album yet??? Message-ID: <342A9703.C9A974CA@asu.edu>
Marton Magocsi wrote:
> No offence meant, this is my personal opinion. I do think Dream Theater > [is/used to be] one of the best bands today. However, and I think you will > agree with me, much more can be expected from Dream Theater than this album. >
...This is a joke, right?
> It is good music, but it is not good music from Dream Theater.
? I think I got one of the "good" CD's, and this guy got one of the much-talked about "bad" ones.
> In fact, > I am inclined to think even they did not mean this album seriously. Just > think of the long time that has passed since the release of Awake. Think > of the Dream Theater font whick did not appear. (I don't like this all > capitals courier-new style font they used now. I can see enough of that > all over.) But I do not think they lost the file of the old font, I would > think that they did not want to use it for such an album. This album isn't > worthy of them.
What the FUCK is that supposed to mean? Somebody help me out here with this one.They wrote it, right? Sure, Desmond Child came in as a top-fifty-hit-man, for ONE of the songs.... But DT's not "worthy" of thier own material? No compute....
> They did not work on the cover, which is, in turn, absolutely > lousy, and on the whole, quite shallow. They just wanted to get it out, get it > over with.
Ohhhhh boy....if Storm Thorgerson ever ran into you and you told him that, I'm sure he'd flatten your ass like a pancake...beotch. :)***Lame counter-point alert*** And I'm sure you could do better? I think the cover kicks ass, I think the entire layout of the booklet and CD case kicks ass. It's one of those pieces of art that isn't so obvious at first, but requires a bit of BRAIN POWER to understand, to grasp the concept, if you will. Then again, that's what I think. But alas, I'm only a wee student who's studying design and design concepts 24/7....Serioiusly, is this a joke though? If I'm responding to a post of pure sarcasm, I feel like an idiot! (which adds more to the comedy, doesn't it?)
> Many of the songs have clear roots: Sting [Hollow Years], Elton > John [Anna Lee], Metallica, FW, Rush, and earlier DT just to name a few. > There is one classic song on the whole album, Trial Of Tears, two very good > songs (Hell's Kitchen and NM), a couple of good songs (Peruvian Skies, > Lines In The Sand (Does anyone else see Parallels here with Perfect > Symmetry? :-), Burning My Soul, Just Let Me Breathe), and some songs > which, in my opinion, just take up space on the CD. (You Not Me [What do > we have here? Bon Jovi II.? I really think bringing in Desmond Child > sucks], Hollow Years, Anna Lee, Take Away My Pain [sounds like an upgraded > Def Leppard song to me]). The lyrics are extremely lame, corny at some > places, any other band can write lyrics like these. > Really, an artist shouldn't get mixed up in all that social and > political nonsense. Trial Of Tears is an exception, it has great lyrics > (good work, Myung), and is the only song which has a very strong > atmosphere. Deep In Heaven is GREAT! Also, it seems like Mr. Sherinian > skipped all the sessions, his work is almost completely missing from the > album. He never does anything on his on, although the stuff he plays with > JP, and the background synth is good. The bass and drums are great on the > whole album, and the guitar is there, too, but it cannot do much alone. > (meaning the lack of keyboard work) Yes, I miss KM's key work a lot. And > his lyrics, too. (But I'm not blaming him for leaving the band.) The > lyrics on Just Let Me Breathe, well, the one who wrote it should have been > instrumental was right. >
LOL!!! Buy a REAL CD player!!!
> To sum it all up, I think the artistic aspect of DT has really been cut > down on this album. Aside from the fact that I always have to program my > CD player to skip tracks 2, 4, 8 and 10, I like the album very much. But I > have to emphasise, it DOES NOT BRING ANYTHING NEW, in spite of the new > sound.
Golly, I think this is DT's most emotional album to date. But I guess you all are sick of my nipples by now....
~The Eckie Journal
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Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:32:22 -0400 From: "S.D.D." <103430.227@compuserve.com> To: YTSEJAM <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: TOUR DATES?! Message-ID: <199709251333_MC2-21CC-2E8@compuserve.com>
DOES ANYONE KNOW THE NEW TOUR DATES IN THE U.S. (PARTICULARLY NEAR CHICAGO/MILWAUKEE)? PLEASE RESPOND TO BOTH MY PERSONAL E-MAIL BOX (AS I DO NOT RECEIVE YTSEJAM DIGESTS) AND/OR THE JAM. I CAN BE REACHED AT "103430.227@COMPUSERVE.COM"
THANKS!
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Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 19:46:41 -0700 From: Arash Ashouriha <ashouria@KR.FH-Niederrhein.DE> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Burning My Soul / ideal producer Message-ID: <342B2211.6D96@kr.fh-niederrhein.de>
Hi
I've recorded "Burning My Soul" as a 44 Hz, 16 bit wave file. I've played the sample 40 % slower then the original speed and I found out that, at the begining of the song, someone wispering: "Falling Into Infinity". It's really cool. Is Burning My Soul released as a comercial single or only for radio ? ----------------------- The ideal producer for the next DT album (maybe Metropolis II) is definetly TERRY BROWN. Any suggestions ?
Btw, I hope they will put all other songs like "Rise The Knife", "Speak To Me" "Where Are You Know", "The Way It Used To Be" and "Cover My Eyes" also on the Metropolis II EP. Maybe we should make a patention !
Arash -------------------------------------------------------------------------- | PROG OR DIE - The Progressive Music Page | | | | DREAM THEATER - FATES WARNING - ROYAL HUNT - SHADOW GALLERY | | | | http://lionel.kr.fh-niederrhein.de/~ashouria/index.htm | | | | by Arash Ashouriha | | | | ashouria@kr.fh-niederrhein.de | --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 12:45:29 -0500 (CDT) From: john jens <jjens@darkhorse.triad.net> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: my nipples of FII Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.970925124013.20120A-100000@darkhorse.triad.net>
On Wed, 24 Sep 1997 eckie@asu.edu wrote: | | > like it, like i did w/ awake. but right now i just dont feel like there's | > a Scarred or Voices on FII, ya know? a couple of the songs sound like | | Well, DUH! This isn't Awake! | | It's Fucking Into Infinity! I mean, Falling....
eckie, yer missing my point. i know it's not Awake; i'm -glad- it's not Awake. what i meant was that i didn't (notice the verb tense here) think there were any songs of the same calibre as Scarred or Voices. chill eckmeister :)
john (saveur)
j j e n s @ s h e l l . w e b z o n e . n e t
s h e l l . w e b z o n e . n e t / ~ j j e n s /
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:54:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Daugherty <pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com> To: Dream Theater Mailing List <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Cobain and Hoon Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970925135052.3969E-100000@bdmserver>
I agree with Pat Sullivan that there isn't a problem with DT mentioning them for killing themselves. They are deities now just like a lot of other musicians who have had early deaths. Whether they killed themselves or puked to death, people still think of them as better musicians than they did when the musicians were alive. That is what the song is trying to get across. Anyway ever heard of freedom of speech?
|-------------------------------------------------------------------| | Pat Daugherty pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com | |===================================================================| | "Every breath leaves me one less to my last" --Dream Theater | | New Dream Theater-September 23, 1997 *** Washington Redskins 2-1 | | "That is not an option, Mr. Mulder" --X-Files *** Go Orioles | |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
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Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 10:51:27 -0700 From: Mike Olekshy <mmo@direct.ca> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: waveform clipping and dynamic range Message-ID: <E0xEI4U-0002n7-00@swiss.direct.ca>
DYNAMIC RANGE - the difference in level (in dB) between the quietest portion of the program material and the loudest portion of the program material.
To my ears, the dynamic range of FII is between 5dB and 10dB.
The dynamic range of a cd is 96 dB.
The statement that FII was recorded with more dynamic range than a cd can handle is incorrect. The mastering engineer did NOT simply clip the waveform at digital zero.
My guess as to why the FII waveforms are, for the most part, a square block, is that the audio is HEAVILY COMPRESSED and LIMITED at digital zero. This is done to make your cd SCREAM out of your speakers at the highest possible percieved volume that can be crammed onto a cd. This does NOT automatically result in a distorted audio signal.
The mastering engineer is probably not to blame for this. I bet Kevin Shirley put all his mixes through a high end stereo tube compressor. THEN i bet he ran the mixes through an ULTRA-MAXIMIZER - DSP-plug in software that basically pushes the level of the mix as close as possible to (if not right at) digital zero.
To the guy who recorded FII into his computer and saw the waveform - try doing it with other cds that have been released over the last few years. I think youll find the same thing.
later MMO
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Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:50:20 -0400 (EDT) From: KillMary <caschulze@mindspring.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Apology Message-ID: <199709251750.NAA09784@brickbat8.mindspring.com>
I would like to apologize to L. Jason Hartman.
I saw your first post and went postal, I thought it was you who wrote that. I think this Jordan dude deserves all I've said, and then some more. I'm sorry if I didn't go through your second post, I just saw that it repeated the same things. Again, I apologize.
/me feels like an idiot now.
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Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:55:11 -0400 From: "Christopher R. Merlo" <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Falling Into Mediocrity Message-ID: <199709251755.NAA01017@stimpy.cs.wm.edu>
> From: dantemm@erinet.com (Dan Temmesfeld) > Subject: Re: The WORST DT album yet?? > > > i think TOO many "progfan" people claim to be open-minded to music, but > then close their mind to anything "not prog" or seemingly "less prog" > than before. that is utter BULLSHIT. progressive music implies moving
[severely edited for brevity]
Right on, Dan. Folks, go back to jam 3016 and reread this post.
----
> From: KillMary <caschulze@mindspring.com> > Subject: FII is NOT crap. > > The 80s are gone. Live with it. > Everybody else is. Or else, get in the fucking time machine, or just lock > yourself in your house and keep listening to your old CDs. But don't keep > making an ass of yourselves showing how you can't grasp anything that's new > or different.
Wow. Less coffee, man. :)
----
> From: Joshua Malone <jmalone@mail.vt.edu> > Subject: Production of FII > > this disk. I've been listening the piss out of this CD for the last 3 days > and have noticed a distinct sound quality which I attributed to crappy > headphones. It sounded cluttered - no definition in any of the load
Maybe if you stop pissing on your headphones...
----
> From: Jon Parmet <jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov> > Subject: But I don't give a shit ( the hyper-extended version ) > > HOLLOW YEARS: The beginning of HY is like nothing I've ever heard on any
[snip]
> finish! HY consumes me! Can't hear MP enough in this song??? You're not > fucking supposed to, pinhead!!!! MP knows this. He is playing exactly > the way the song requires him to. The tastefull rip shots. He > understands, why can't you? :)
heh heh
> the most progressive part of the song seamlessly right back into the > straight ahead groove part. They fucked with you while you were asleep > and you didn't even know it :):)
I once described why I liked Surrounded so much this way. It lulls you in, strokes your hair, makes you think everything is normal and peaceful... but by the time you realize that you were in 4/4 - 5/4, the song has taken off... with your wallet.
:)
------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ "640 K ought to be enough cmerlo@cs.wm.edu "@'/ ,. \`@" memory for everyone." -Gates d-man@dreamt.org /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" -Peart ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Maintainer of the Official Dream Theater Frequently Asked Questions List http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo/dtfaq.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 14:06:30 -0400 From: psull@ici.net (Pat Sullivan) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: evolution Message-ID: <199709251802.OAA10684@kira.ici.net>
>Am I the only person on this list >who thinks that this is the most idiotic argument they've ever heard? What the >fuck is wrong with liking I&W, which I do, and being dissapointed that the >band has gone in a completely different direction?
You could use this same argument after each and every one of DT's studio releases. LIsten to them all - NONE of them is like the previous one, or ANY of the previous ones for that matter. Anyone who is in the least suprised that FII sounds different than any DT they've ever heard hasn't been paying attention to the music very well. This doesn't mean you have to LIKE (or dislike) FII, just that you should have EXPECTED change.
>And if admitting that this album is not on par with >their other albums is actually going to destroy your world, then I truly pity >you.
Your use of the word "admitting" makes the assumption that those of us that say we like the album are lying; that we really hate the album and are afraid to admit it. If you had said "...admitting that some people might think that this album...", *that* I could agree with.
And I notice how you spend the entire post blasting people for not acknowledging your opinions on FII, and at the same time tell everyone who *likes* the album that they've got their head up their ass. Pot. Kettle. Black.
I can agree that there will be people who won't like this album. To an extent, I can even see why. You are one of them, I am not. If you care to make the points you mentioned about why FII is so bad, I'd be interested to see them (I must have missed them when you posted them the first time).
_____Pat Sullivan_____________________________________________ E-mail: psull@ici.net IRC: DDictator WWW: http://www.ici.net/cust_pages/psull/psull.html NP: Drain STH - "Horror Wrestling" ______________________________________________________________
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Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 00:26:18 -0500 From: Ryan Good <rtgood@students.wisc.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Anna Lee's guitar Message-ID: <199709251819.NAA648510@mail1.doit.wisc.edu>
During bridge of Anna Lee there's some cool vibe effect of JP's guitar that sounds really cool. Then the slide solo comes in and now it can be said....JP sounded like Chris DeGarmo!! _____________________________________________________ "Get Down" -Jamiroquai _____________________________________________________ Ryan Good - Music Stapher from WSUM - Madison's idea of College Radio! - The Unofficial-Official Madison Progressive Rock Monster Home - 608-285-8695 Radio - 608-262-1206 "Madison Student Radio: It's coming!" WSUM/MSR Homepage: http://msr.wisc.edu
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Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 12:56:16 -0500 From: Chris Ptacek <someone@prognosis.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Low Blow Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970925175616.00cbbb0c@pop.enteract.com>
>From: "Neil Gallop" <nga@software-ag.de> >Subject: Pretty low > >Am I the only one around here who thinks it's pretty low of Mr. >Portnoy et. al. to poke fun at Shannon Hoon and Kurt Cobain in >'Just Let Me Breath'?
How is that poking fun? That's making a statement. The media (particularly MTV) capitolizes like a motherfucker on people's deaths. Shannon Hoon wouldn't be a name on this list if he weren't dead. Cobain's music would die out with the teen angst he's singing about if he hadn't killed himself. It's the media that's made these people into a household name, and it's not sacred ground to observe and comment on that, if you ask me.
Christopher W. Ptacek IRC: Madsman Tech Support EnterAct, L.L.C. http://www.enteract.com http://www.prognosis.com/madsman
"You can be a dreamer You can be your dream come true Let imagination lead Reality will follow through" - Michael Hedges
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Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 14:40:11 -0400 (EDT) From: KillMary <caschulze@mindspring.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3017 Message-ID: <199709251840.OAA00165@brickbat8.mindspring.com>
Clark Abel: > If you think that these are good lyrics or that this is real emotion >on FII, then maybe you really just don't get they're older albums anyways.
It's not that there is no real emotion. There is, or else we woulnd't have so many people saying that the new album is the best DT yet (my oppinion also). It's just that it's a different kind of emotion from the previous albums. "What, they're not allowed to change? Is that written anywhere?".
>Considering the guitar tone is different on every song, what point are you >trying to make? Sure the guitar sound kicks my ass in Peruvian Skies, >Burning My Soul and Just Let Me Breathe, but it sucks in New Millenium and >You Not Me. So I guess you obviously need to explain.
Dude, it's all a matter of oppinion. I personally think the guitar sound rocks on both songs. In YNM it happens to be a sound that reminds me of a fuzz? Is that bad just because it's different? And I don't see what's wrong on the guitar tone on A New Millenium. It sounds perfect to me.
>I think the CD is one of their greatest efforts too. But a lot of people >are feeling disappointed in the fact that this is their least progressive >album to date. Not that this is bad...it will just take time for some to >get used to it. I think a lot of people feel betrayed (like DT owed them >anything anyway!). But it is similar to when Rush turned keyboard oriented >in the 80's (?). People felt betrayed. But they eventually came around >(first the fans, then Rush).
Ummm I think the comparison doesn't apply here. Rush did have a period when the songwriting went downhill and they started to become repetitive. I still think that the songwriting on the last several records has not been consistent. There's always some great songs mixed with some that we could live without.
FII, on the other hand, is the strongest DT yet exactly because all the songs are great. All of them. Not an exception. That's what I, personally, look for in a CD: good songs. Of course I also like complicated instrumental parts, but that is just a little something they put in there to enhance the flavour of the recipe. In some cases it adds, in some cases it doesn't. It would not work to put the midle section of Metropolis Part I inside of Hollow Years. Can you see what I am saying?
>I think he did a great job. But I don't agree that the keyboard is only to >create moods (and I'm a guitarist...man am I crazy?!). Yes at certain >times.
What I meant to say is: when the keyboards are meant to create moods, as they are in most of the parts, they sound really good. Yet when they come up front in a solo, they also sound great, and they're not shy at all.
>Maybe this is the reason some people don't like the production (though I'm >not sure what difference clipping makes to the overall sound).
It remains to be seen if those frequencies that have been clipped are even audible.
>Be careful...you might get the infamous "finger" post.
I got it already, before I had time to apologize :-) Oh well. I feel lucky. >Get a clue you fucking shirtlifter!!!
I wasn't gonna reply to that since I already apologized, but... Ummmmm what exactly is a shirtlifter.
Later,
Christian.
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 3018 **************************
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