YTSEJAM Digest 3801
Today's Topics:
1) RE: Petrucci
by krackley@weidmuller.com
2) FII
by "Brian Hayden" <Brian.D.Hayden-1@tc.umn.edu>
3) My $300 worth (opinions included)
by "Richard A. Rivera" <rrivera@zoo.uvm.edu>
4) double bass
by Nathan Rood <nrood@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
5) hopping on the bandwagon
by Pat Daugherty <PDaugher@bdm.com>
6) Double Bass, Rating FII
by Chris Oates <aspect@cats.ucsc.edu>
7) RE: Trades
by krackley@weidmuller.com
8) FII then and now-
by Matt Stanich <mwstanic@mtu.edu>
9) Re: Hell's Kitchen/Empty Tremor Mailing List
by Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br>
10) speak to me U2?
by "earthblind, starbound" <afn39111@afn.org>
11) MIKE BAHR, YOU'RE A BAD PERSON!
by Christopher Ptacek <someone@prognosis.com>
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Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 16:40:02 -0400
From: krackley@weidmuller.com
Subject: RE: Petrucci
Message-ID: <199804272040.QAA00072@mail.weidmuller.com>
>>>>>> P.S. Does "wannabes" need an apostrophe?
>>>>> No, but "Patrucci" needs and "e".
>>>> The "and" does not need that "d" at the end Mr. Grammar.
>>> you need a comma after the end, sir.
>> Capitals at the beginning of your sentences, please :)
>> aT lEaSt yOu DiDn'T sPeLl cOmMa wRoNg. 8^D
> That's too true. However, you'll need a period at the end of that
first
> sentence.
> (this is too much fun!)
The sir should be capitalized. Shouldn't it? }8^)
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Date: Mon, 27 Apr 98 15:33:37 -0500
From: "Brian Hayden" <Brian.D.Hayden-1@tc.umn.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: FII
Message-ID: <3544eba042e9003@mhub3.tc.umn.edu>
I'm not going to do a song-by-song rundown, I'll just summarize. Trial of Tears
blows me away, although the instrumental section is kind of meandering imo.
Hollow Years is one of my favorite songs ever. Burning My Soul is some kickass
heavy fare. The rest of the album is better than most stuff that's out today,
but I can take it or leave it. Hell's Kitchen and the long instrumental in LitS,
in particular, bore me. For what it's worth...
-Brian
"You've got to believe in yourself, because no one will believe in you...
Imagination like a bird on the wing, flying free for you to use."
-Ozzy Osbourne
Coleridge on IRC Web: http://www.tc.umn.edu/~hayd0029
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 16:37:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Richard A. Rivera" <rrivera@zoo.uvm.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: My $300 worth (opinions included)
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.96.980427155301.102242A-100000@gnu.uvm.edu>
On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 ytsejam@ax.com wrote:
> > 1. New Millennium
The pure fury of the performance, the excellent (and I
> > mean EXCELLENT) live renditions of it, and sadly the decline of other
> > songs that aged poorly, have made it better than it was; it aged very
> > well.
> >
> > Initially: B- Now: A-
> >
Fully agree with this. I would have given it the exact same ratings.
2. You Not Me
YOM was obviously less concise but at the same time projected so much more
of a DT-style sound. But no matter how much you try, you can't polish a
> > turd. I wish that it had at least been a commercial success because OFB
> > really needs it.
> >
> > Initially: D Now: C
> >
See I think I'm one of those few people that thinks that DC actually saved
this song. YOM was just too drab and boring. It needed some sparkle. I
still think that there were other B-sides that should have made the album
instead of this. If they really wanted radio attention they should have
thrown on STM. That would have done it in a heartbeat and they wouldn't
have had to share any co-writing credits and then suffer the slings and
arrows of all the anti-commerical prog heads on here who took one look at
DC's name in the liner notes and had a cow. Initial: B- Now: B
> > 3. Peruvian Skies
> > This is a song we all thought was decent at first.
Not me. I couldn't stand it when I heard it at the Fix shows and remained
unimpressed when the album version came out. It was just too "trippy" for
me. I don't like Floyd, so that's where they lost me. I will say, that it
has grown on me tremendously since then. In fact, it gets my vote for
"Most Improved Song Of FII." Initially: D- Now: B+
> >
> > 4. Hollow Years
> > What the hell happened? Wasn't this song supposed to spend all day
> > airing on VH1 and preparing OFB for a new era of arena tours? It COULD
> > have, and we know it.
Agreed. This could have been their "Silent Lucidity."
No offense guys, but it's got more cheese than Domino's
> > Pizza.
Then let me drown in a sea of cheese. This song ranks right up there with
anything they've done in the past and will do in the future. It's probably
my favorite off the album. Simply amazing. It was love at first sight.
Initial: A+ Now: A+
> > 5. Burning My Soul
> > This song got early airplay and heavy concert play, and it's
probably the "crunchiest" thing on FII and sonically seems to be the
successor to The Mirror or Caught in a Web.
Or PMU. I rememeber when this song first came out I thought it sounded
familiar. Then I realized what happens when you sing "This world is
spinning around me" over the "Twisting, turning" part. Lyrically I'm not
too fond of the song, though I am thankful they removed the "gang" vox
during the chorus as they had done in Fix Shows. It's a good head-banger
though. Initially: B Now: C+
> >
> > 6. Hell's Kitchen
> > This is the least-liked of DT's instrumentals, but then again so was
> > Erotomania when it was new, and now many consider Eroto to be DT's best
> > instrumental.
HK is easily my least favorite instrumental. It strikes me more of a jam
that they happened to include on the album. It worked much better as part
of BMS. I know they had to seperate the two for commercial reasons, but
IMHO they should have left it off the album altogether and thrown on some
of the B-sides (WAYN, STM, etc). That way we could have gotten another
"proper" song and those of us who were at the Fix shows could say, "Hey
man, I was there when they did that really melodic jam in the middle of
BMS." Sort of like the JP solo at the end of TLF on the LiT video.
> > 7. Lines In the Sand
> > What can I say that I haven't already? We thought it was great right
> > out of the gates, with a little bit of opposition by those who were
> > unhappy with Pinnick's role, but now, this song is thought of as quite
> > possibly DT's finest. By far the best on FII,
Agreed. Though the arrangment that apears on FII is far superior to the
Fix version. And I'm also one of the few that liked Doug on the song from
the start.
The lyrics are downright brilliant,
Agreed. Easily my favorite JP contribution. Initially: A+ Now: A+
> > 8. Take Away My Pain
> > This song is very difficult to work with
The reason this song is difficult to work with is because most of us know
how it SHOULD have sounded. Enough said. Initially: F Now: D. The demo
version, however, gets a huge A+.
> > 9. Just Let Me Breathe
> > This is one of those songs that started off good and has more or
less
> > stayed that way.
Agreed. Liked it from the start and like it now. Initially: B+ Now: A
> >
> > 10. Anna Lee
> > This song got probably THE most criticism early on (sort of like that
> > TV commercial... "CHEEEEEEESE to the rescue!") and it definitely fills
> > the "Elton Niche" for this record. Petrucci's sound is downright
> > Brian-May on this track,
Totally right on about the Brian May thing. As for the song, I don't see
what all the damn fuss is about. This is an amazing song. I love Labrie's
lyrics and the melody is definitely not your average pop song melody. In
fact, I'm willing to be that if Labrie ever puts out a solo album, it will
sound a lot like this. This just seems to be his moment to shine and he
carries it well. Initially: A+ Now: A+
> >
> > 11. Trial of Tears
> > There's always a Myung mind-twister on each album, and FII is no
> > exception. A lot of the early commentary, aside from praising the
> > naturally mind-boggling funky bass solo, was to the point that this song
> > would have to age well and would be thought of as the Learning to Live
> > or Scarred of this record.
Again, I'm in the minority when I say that this is one of my least
favorites off the album. The first half is awesome. But then once the
instrumental fucking around starts, it just loses momentum. It just seems
to wander a bit and never fully recovers. Even the reprise at the end
can't save it, though that was an unexpected surprise. I think this one
was included to satisfy the prog heads who might have been getting little
nervous that the songs seemed to be shorter this time around. Intitally: C
Now: D+
> >Speak to Me,
A+
Cover My Eyes,
A-
The Way It Used To Be
B/B+
> >
> > WDADU: Ytsejam, The Killing Hand, Only A Matter of Time
Agreed.
> > Images: Pull Me Under, Take The Time, Metropolis, Learning to Live
> >
I can't believe you left Surrounded off. That song is the reason I'm on
this list. If that's not top tier..
Awake: 6:00, Eroto/Voices/TSM, Lifting Shadows, Scarred
>
6:00 I agree with. Eroto I agree with. Voices I could do without. That and
the Mirror keep Awake from being one of those rare "perfect" albums. TSM
definitely deserves it. LSOAD is easily my favorite off the album.
Scarred...okay, I'll give it to you. I would add IF to that list, but I'm
afriad I'd get my ass kicked.
> ACOS: ACOS
Obviously.
> > FII: New Millennium, Lines in the Sand, Trial of Tears
Ditch ToT and throw on Hollow Years, JLMB, and the TAMP (demo)
> >
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 16:51:16 -0400
From: Nathan Rood <nrood@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: double bass
Message-ID: <3544EFC3.3B75CEF0@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
ytsejam@ax.com wrote:
> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:31:24 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Matthew Smith <ktulu@arches.uga.edu>
> Subject: question
> Hey Jammers--
> I have a question. Could be a stupid question, but I really don't care
> because I want to know, and I figured some of you probably know:
> Who was the first band ever to utilize double bass drums?
> Thanks.
Well Keith Moon of the Who and Ginger Baker of (at the time) Cream both utilized double bass as
early as the tale end of the '60s. I'm not sure which of them 'invented' it, although I'd be willing
to bet that some jazz drummers used it well before them. I would be willing to bet that Keith Moon
was the first to use it/them in the rock field.
-Nate
-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Nathan Rood / IRC and VP chat room alias: Horizen mailto:nrood@utk.edu \ Excite Message Board alias: Quietus or try:nrood@utkux.utcc.utk.edu / ICQ: 6170743 ===================================================================== "There are two ways to get through life easily; to believe everything, or to believe nothing. Both release the mind from thinking." Earl Hindman ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:02:22 -0400 From: Pat Daugherty <PDaugher@bdm.com> To: Dream Theater Mailing List <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: hopping on the bandwagon Message-ID: <3544F25E.B6F34AE4@bdm.com>
Since I am bored and have nothing better to do:
1. New Millenium -- This one took awhile to grow on me. Wild beginning to a great cd...
First listen: C Now: B
2. You Not Me -- Like this one from day one. Catchy chorus even if cheesy...
First listen: A Now: A
3. Peruvian Skies -- My first listen (and still do) I heard Metallica. This song gets better every listen.
First listen: B+ Now: A
4. Hollow Years -- My favorite song on the cd. The vocals are awesome...
First Listen: A Now: A+
5. Burning My Soul -- Doesn't do much for me at all...
First Listen: C Now: C
6. Hell's Kitchen -- A good instrumental. Perhaps it shouldn't have been pulled and made its own song.
First Listen: C+ Now: C+
7. Lines in the Sand -- The Doug vocals at first seemed out of place but after many listens they sound great
First Listen: C Now: B
8. Take Away My Pain -- First listen a great ballad but it lacks something...
First Listen: B+ Now: C
9. Just Let Me Breathe -- Probably my least favorite on FII.
First Listen: C Now: C
10. Anna Lee -- This one is good and grows on you with every listen.
First Listen: B- Now: B+
11. Trial of Tears -- Just like Learning to Live a great way to finish off a cd.
First Listen: B+ Now: B+
NP:Divine Regale-Horizons -- |-------------------------------------------------------------------| | Pat Daugherty Email : pdaugher@mcl.bdm.com | | Web : http://www.abs.net/~patnbeck/pat/pat.html | |===================================================================| | "That is not an option, Mr. Mulder" -- X-Files | |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
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Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:03:23 -0700 From: Chris Oates <aspect@cats.ucsc.edu> To: "Ytsejam (E-mail)" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Double Bass, Rating FII Message-ID: <01BD71E5.43386220.aspect@cats.ucsc.edu>
First:
I remember reading in an old Keyboard magazine (dealing with double-bass sequencing) that the first "band" to use a double bass was a Jazz drummer in the 50's or 60's. Don't remember ther name, but I can find it if I really have to. :) As far as which band first used it in the way we think of double bass (as the thundering HEAVY METAL sound) I dunno.
Second:
I'm not going to re-rate all the songs, and I think Mike B's opinion is fairly good as a "middle of the road opinion" (i.e. not so much one person's in particular, but more of an average of fan opinion) but I have to pout in my 2 cents that Hell's Kitchen is a great song. I never really liked Erotomania (or Voices for that matter, I think SIlent Man is the best of that trilogy) I felt it just had way too much "play this riff. THen play this completely different riff. Now play something else." Plus, no keyboard solo. :) Hell's Kitchen just FLOWS from one part to the next, and I love it. Ytsejam still has the "watch me show off" cool factor, but HK hits me in the guts.
~Chris
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Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:17:34 -0400 From: krackley@weidmuller.com Subject: RE: Trades Message-ID: <199804272117.RAA00148@mail.weidmuller.com>
>> Graham wrote: >> Please note, I TRADE ONLY, I don't sell these discs.
> I'll trade you $15.00 for a disc :-)
This was supposed to be a joke, get it, ha, ha. Graham said he would TRADE ONLY and that he won't sell it. So I said I would TRADE him $15.00 dollars for it. Even had a smiley face at the end. A joke, get it, ha, ha.
I didn't think I was going to start another thread on trading.
I just got "Fasten Your Seatbelts" from Nick. This is an awesome boot, my first one so far. I could get used to this.
If anyone out there wants to here some of Dave Abbruzzes's band Green Romance Orchestra. Let me know, I picked up a Pro-Mark three song Promotional CD of the band at one of the local music stores. I could make some RealAudio files and e-mail them to ya.
Later,
P.S. Sorry if I caused you any shit Graham.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:31:36 -0400 From: Matt Stanich <mwstanic@mtu.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: FII then and now- Message-ID: <3544F938.1B37@mtu.edu>
Hello all-
Here is how I see it: 1) New Millennium Then = A+ Now = A+ 2) You Not Me Then = D- Now = B 3) Peruvian Skies Then = A Now = C+ 4) Hollow Years Then = A Now = A 5) Burning My SOul Then = A Now = C+ 6) Hell's Kitchen Then = C Now = C+ 7) Lines In The Sand Then = C Now = A+ 8) Take Away My Pain Then = C+ Now = A- 9) Just Let Me Breath Then = B- Now = B 10) Anna Lee Then = A Now = A 11) Trial of Tears Then = C+ Now = A+
Matt Stanich
Only 15 more days till the road trip and 2 nights of pure DT heaven. Now if I could only get my S.O.C. before then...
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:42:59 -0300 (EST) From: Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Hell's Kitchen/Empty Tremor Mailing List Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980427183852.3705A-100000@dijkstra.linux.ime.usp.br>
On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, Matt Johnston wrote:
> It's up there and above the epic Metallica intrumentals (right up there > with To Live is To Die and Orion)
Gee, C'mon. "The Call of Ktulu" is one of the only songs by Metallica that really has atmosphere. It's not as atmospheric as most of the bands doing things today, but this doesn't mean it's not incredible.
And it's one of the most underrated songs they have (BTW, the whole "Ride the Lightning" album is underrated, IMO).
> Definately, without a dobut the best studio instrumental (with Eve being a > close second, and many of the live onse right up there as well).
Man, this "Eve" song is one of the most beautiful things I have ever heard!
[]s, Roger...
-- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - rbrito@ime.usp.br - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Undergraduate Computer Science Student - "Windows? Linux and X!" Bootleg/trade page: http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/bootleg.html =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:46:05 -0400 From: "earthblind, starbound" <afn39111@afn.org> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: speak to me U2? Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980427174605.007a4bf0@pop3.afn.org>
Speak to Me doesn't sound very much like U2 to me. The Way it Used to Be (what I could download in an hour at 14.4k), now that's right off of Joshua Tree--I don't hear DT at all--but the only part of Speak to Me that's really U2 is the bridge--definitely Labrie's "ahhhh"s in the bridge. Speak to Me is pop, but still sounds like a DT song somehow. Not TWiUtB.
How do we get two U2-influenced songs in one album writing session? Who in the band is the major U2 fan? Is Dream Theater's next album going to be completely sterile and corporate? Inquiring minds want to know.
(I'd still prefer STM to Anna Lee. Then give me You Or Me instead of You Not Me, the demo version of Take Away My Pain instead of the album version, Raise the Knife instead of BMS/HK, ditch Hollow Years (not enough space left) and this'd be one of my favorite albums. If I had a CD-R, it'd be a cool thing to create...)
This post was brought to you by the letter U and the numeral 2.
-=- I know a monster when I see one in the mirror.
--------------------==== Broken via True Love ====------------------- http://www.afn.org/~afn39111 Butcher, Rape, Smash to Pieces
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 16:59:46 -0500 From: Christopher Ptacek <someone@prognosis.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: MIKE BAHR, YOU'RE A BAD PERSON! Message-ID: <199804272154.QAA15847@wheat.farm.niu.edu>
What the HELL?! Who do you think you are?!? You think it's okay to post DT reviews and content here? Guess again! I swear, if your next post does not include Joey the bodybuilder, your views on suicide, Equinox, or someone getting stabbed, I will report you to all authorities! Don't fuck with my ytsejam! =20 - Dirty Water Mads
I'm sorry... Scott's post just cracked me up. =20
>From: Michael Torres <lilmikey@creighton.edu> >well as the time for the show in chicago approaches...its pretty much time >to figure out how the hell i'm getting there....i don't have a car and i >was wondering if anyone who was planning on making a road trip to chicago >was going to be passing by omaha? i'm just trying to see what options i
>have if any...anyone interested please email meprivately thanks
To you and anyone going to ANY DT concerts: don't plan on going there and getting your tickets at the door. I would not be the least bit surprised if the Vic is sold out by now (if so, I can probably get spare tix if anyone is in dire need). You need to plan your ride to these shows almost immediately after deciding you want to and can go. =20 As for rides, I can make arrangements to drive people from the northwest suburbs of Chicago... DeKalb, Rockford, / Schaumburg, Elgin. I know there are people coming from Indiana. Let's try to help people out. Carpooling is a cool way to meet some jammers! I want to arrange a get-together for after the show. Last time it was really cool hanging with you folks, but every plan fell through, and that sucked all kinds of ass. I now know of several places that would be viable options to hang after this show. I worked less than one city block from the Vic for over a year, and I can help people with parking and meeting places. Contact me ahead of time. There are cool coffee houses and some bad ass pizza joints around, and if we have enough people, we can certainly arrange for a place like Hard Rock.
>From: Stephen Dedalus <mattb@mbay.net> >OK, I'm gonna try not to go off the deep end because I think it sucks to >have your opinion thrashed by another opinion, but I can't keep quiet. I >have to say I agree with almost none of Mr. Bahr's statements. Shall I go >point by point?
It's up to you, so long as you understand that your disagreement is meaningless. :) To me, FII is beyond a doubt, DT's best album. The solos are perfect for the music, the emotion, with only a couple exceptions, meets or far exceeds that of any of the previous releases... Trial of Tears and Lines in the Sand are better vocal and lyrical performances, IMO than anything they've ever TOUCHED upon (the first time I think they've been able to match up to WDADU lyrically). What they've managed to do is showcase virtuousity without ramming it down your throat. The album is extremely well thought out, and the music no longer has those tendencies I have always been forced to call "immature songwriting" for lack of any better way to describe it. (By the way, I don't think I've ever written anything that's entirely free of such immature songwriting). I think it's an intrinsic thing... either you hear it or you don't... sort of like emotion in guitar playing. This stuff is all my opinion. It's relevent, but it's not reasonable for me to present it as an argument for "What the hell were you thinking? You're wrong." Ya know?=20
Now an annoyance issue: I've noticed some of my posts recently have had the little "=3D20" type things (it will probably appear in this post, in the .sig, if you want an example). It began when I changed from Pegasus back to Eudora (now Eudora 4.0). If anyone knows what causes this, and preferably, knows how to prevent it, I'd be grateful for a quick private e-mail.
Christopher W. Ptacek
http://www.prognosis.com/madsman IRC: Madsman
=93I wonder if Harley-Davidson makes a unicycle=85=94 - Michael Hedges
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 3801 **************************
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