YTSEJAM Digest 3818
Today's Topics:
1) Chicago
by "Dale R. Newberry" <drnewb@spiff.net>
2) SF DT Concert
by "Mark Philpot" <griphiam@ccnet.com>
3) Defending Jethro Tull
by Beyond the Mirror <mail@beyondthemirror.com>
4) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3816
by "Richard A. Rivera" <rrivera@zoo.uvm.edu>
5) still more on guitarists
by Nathan Rood <nrood@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
6) mitmesegast
by "Raivo Hool" <raitz@estcard.ee>
7) Fastest guitarist
by Jon Kretschmer <jkretsch@sdcc17.ucsd.edu>
8) Re: Fastest guitarist
by graham boyle <icarus@sydney.net>
9) Some great MEGADETH news :)
by "Vincent G. LuPone" <vgl@syspac.com>
10) Defending myself (JP, Masi, YM & stuff)
by Per Pettersson <nv99701@egymn.tranemo.se>
11) Re: Defense of Chris Merlo
by Carlos Alfaro <calfaro@caribe.net>
12) Re: Fastest guitarist (new spin on a BAD thread)
by "Vincent G. LuPone" <vgl@syspac.com>
13) Re: Defending myself (JP, Masi, YM & stuff)
by Carlos Alfaro <calfaro@caribe.net>
14) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3815
by "J?rgen C. Bakken" <easy2beat@hotmail.com>
15) Continuing to defend myself
by Per Pettersson <nv99701@egymn.tranemo.se>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 00:48:00 +0000
From: "Dale R. Newberry" <drnewb@spiff.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Chicago
Message-ID: <199804300546.WAA21261@odin.ax.com>
Well, just ordered my tickets for Chicago (damn Ticketbastard service
charges), so it's a go for me. I also got tickets for Bela Fleck and
the Flecktones in St. Louis June 12. I'm taking my dad to that one
:).
Dale R. Newberry
drnewb@spiff.net
"By the time they had dimished from 50 to 8, the
other dwarves began to suspect 'Hungry.'"
-Gary Larson
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 23:10:59 -0700
From: "Mark Philpot" <griphiam@ccnet.com>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: SF DT Concert
Message-ID: <000001bd73fe$bf499580$6b8f15cf@markphil>
Jam,
So the doors do open at 8:00? Is anyone positive about this?
Mark
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 01:28:36 -0500
From: Beyond the Mirror <mail@beyondthemirror.com>
To: "'YJ Digest'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Defending Jethro Tull
Message-ID: <01BD73D7.531E4EE0.mail@beyondthemirror.com>
On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 23:15:48 Robert Linus Koehl <robertk@jove.acs.unt.edu>
wrote:
>The Moody Blues... were also the first band to have a flute player,
>but that piece of shit ripoff band Jethro Tull gets credit for it. Any
>way, I spend enough time ranting about how Tull ripped off the Moodies...
Er, excuse me. Just because the Moody Blues had a flute player first, does
that make it a crime for someone else to come along and improve on the
idea? That's like saying that JP should have never taken up guitar because
"It's been done" by people like Chuck Berry and Keith Richards. Hey, I like
and respect the Moody Blues (my wife loves 'em) but the roll of the flute
in that band is drastically different than in Tull. You seem to be claiming
that an apple ripped off an orange.
By the way, good mellotron info.
Respectfully,
Josh Becker (first time post)
mail@beyondthemirror.com
http://www.beyondthemirror.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 03:34:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Richard A. Rivera" <rrivera@zoo.uvm.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3816
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.96.980430033210.66340A-100000@gnu.uvm.edu>
On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 ytsejam@ax.com wrote:
> Or you could start a cover band and merge these two songs together into a
> master mix. Bet that'd impress the hell out of the clueless non-musicians in
> the crowd. "Wow! You're good! I've never heard a band do that! You guys are
> better than Nine Miles!!"
That was cool. :)
Richie
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 03:31:17 -0400
From: Nathan Rood <nrood@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: still more on guitarists
Message-ID: <354828C4.3C7B525A@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
James C. Shiels bragged:
> Well, ya' see, that seemingly awesome guitar performance at the beginning of=
> HE-MAN WOMAN HATER is nothing more than a flashy use of delay. In fact=
> what he's actually playing is HALF that speed and i could do it in my=
> sleep! Honestly, i think Nuno is a great player, though an admitted Eddie=
> rip-off, but i have yet to see reason for him to be ranked with "the master=
> s."
Well then what about Nuno's acoustic solo piece 'Midnight Express' from _Waiting
for the Punchline_? Nuno shows off his amazing chops there, and he manages doing the
whole hammer on/pull off stuff on the heavier gauged acoustic guitar. He's got me
baffled there as well, I've yet to figure out the alternate tuning he's using, or is he
using an acoustic seven string? Anybody? Somebody said that Nuno doesn't compare
with the "masters" but I lost the text and couldn't quote it. Now by the term masters,
are you including Muddy Waters, Charlie Parker, and Les Paul in there as well!?
Certainly these guys like Yngwie and Angelo can play FAST, but that's only ONE element
to mastering the guitar. Emotion is another very important aspect, which was the point
I was trying to make earlier with Jim Matheos. Me-thinks you all need to listen to
some Steve Rothery, who is technically nothing an intermidiate guitarist can't figure
out, but emotionally something these so called "masters" like Malsteem would probably
be baffled by.
> Right before and
> during the part where JL sings "His final score, the actor bows...,"
> crank your stereo. Listen to the fast playing in the background. It's
> very subtle, but you can make it out. It reminds me a lot of Robert
> Fripp's playing during "Frame by Frame." The solo has so much emotion
> built up into it, and the majority of the song is made up of arpeggios
> played over and over again by Petrucci. I'm not saying you have to love
> the song, but have some respect for it.
This is my point also (somewhat mine, anyway) about TAMP in the demo vs. album
version argument. The demo may have more emotional content, but it does not include
(at least the supposed demo I've heard) this brilliant bridge section. The bridge
section is, IMO of course, the emotional climax of the song. JP's solo here is a good
example of this emotionative style I've been getting at, rather than just blasting away
at those arpeggios.
Well I'll tell ya, sitting in front of the comp all day writing a term paper
certainly does wonders for Jam postage rate. It's almost 3:30 in the morning now, and
I'm still sitting here going off about these guitarists. Time to get some sleep.
-Nate
-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Nathan Rood / IRC and VP chat room alias: Horizen mailto:nrood@utk.edu \ Excite Message Board alias: Quietus or try:nrood@utkux.utcc.utk.edu / ICQ: 6170743 ===================================================================== "There are two ways to get through life easily; to believe everything, or to believe nothing. Both release the mind from thinking." Earl Hindman ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 10:59:16 +0200 From: "Raivo Hool" <raitz@estcard.ee> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: mitmesegast Message-ID: <199804300759.KAA14146@xyz.estcard.ee>
Iban:
> yea but these screams and moans are his wife giving birth to little Fire Vai
Hey, nobody asked for any particular screams or moans, did they? :-)
Chris:
> The coolest thing Vai ever did was his solo from Crossroads.
I'm sure John Petrucci wouldn't agree.
Matt:
> That's nice and all, but *WHERE* in the song does John play his stick?
Uh-huh, you said, "hard-on". I reckon the guy hardly thought he needed to get rid of the Stick in the middle of the song and go for a tuba instead. At least in Helsinki (Finland) he played (as I recall) half of the Ytsejam and the entire New Millennium on the Stick. Can't recall Take Away My Pain, probably because it wasn't there.
I still got a question. Where'd that story of the Stick in Take Away My Pain come from? Before the album was released, Mike stated on the IRC that the only song with the Stick on it was New Millennium. Then, in a review I don't remember where, some journalist - possibly clueless as usual - praised the way Myung had used the Stick on Trial Of Tears.
Any inside info, anyone? :-)
Eckie:
> (okay, Vai's a bit of a wanker, but if I could do what he does, so would I).
Isn't that why he did that tune When I Was A Little Boy?
Funny how I've always considered Satriani more guitar-biased than Vai. Satch usually has that 4/4 drumbeat going and then solos over it. Steve V., on the other hand, does his best to take everything from every instrument, thus coming up with some friggin' intense music. Some may not like it that he doesn't really give any room to the listener to breathe within his music, but hey, that's the control freak incarnate. And then, there really are other CDs to play when you get tired of one or a couple of them for a while.
Can you tell I'm a Vai fan? :-)
]From: cluesump@sirius.com (Charoenkwan Luesumphan):
> introduction and the brasssounds at the end. John Paul Jones played > Mellotron strings in Led Zeppelin's "The Rain Song" on Houses of the
The most famous mellotron has to be in Stairway To Heaven, where it was used for the flute parts. Loads of info on mellotron can certainly be found on the Crimson site Elephant Talk. Many today's (or yesterday's) bands have started to use it. Late Soundgarden comes to mind, for example.
John DiBella:
> Beauty projection in the reflection > always the worst when it starts **
Get the quotes right. :-)
Raivo Hool NT administrator, Estonian Card Center of Banks
e-mail: raitz@estcard.ee Office: (+372) 6 711 416 GSM: (+372) 51 43 567
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 01:19:52 -0700 From: Jon Kretschmer <jkretsch@sdcc17.ucsd.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Fastest guitarist Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980430011952.007d6830@sdcc17.ucsd.edu>
You people are morons.
The definitive two words: Kirk Hammet.
BWAHAHA ; )
Jon
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:44:43 +1000 From: graham boyle <icarus@sydney.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Fastest guitarist Message-ID: <354839FB.CAECB4CA@sydney.net>
Jon Kretschmer wrote: > You people are morons. > The definitive two words: Kirk Hammet. > BWAHAHA ; )
Two words: who cares :) fast does not = good in my book
graham
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 02:43:03 -0600 From: "Vincent G. LuPone" <vgl@syspac.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Some great MEGADETH news :) Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980430024301.006d9b84@postoffice.syspac.com>
The following is excerpted from the June 1998 issue of Maximum Guitar, with Marty Friedman and Dave Mustaine from MEGADETH on the cover:
Q: What direction do you plan on taking with the new record? MUSTAINE: If you're asking me what the lyrics on the barf bag were, I couldn't tell you. I was half asleep. On the last record, we divided it into thirds. One part of the record was really fast and aggressive, one-third of it was the really melodic, in-between stuff and then the final third was really radio-oriented music like "Youthanasia". I think what we're going to do this time is split it in half, and make it half radio-oriented and half REALLY HEAVY like "Peace Sells...But Who's Buying?" Along with the bands and CDs that management is going to suggest I listen to, I'm going to go back and listen to some of the heavier stuff I used to get into when I was younger--things like Mercyful Fate, Diamond Head and some of the new wave of heavy metal. I want to get back to some of my roots. I don't want to forget what got me here.
Peace and love, and good happiness stuff, ~Vince
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= | http://www.prognosis.com/obscure/ | -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:49:34 +0100 From: Per Pettersson <nv99701@egymn.tranemo.se> To: "'Multiple recipients of list'" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Defending myself (JP, Masi, YM & stuff) Message-ID: <98Apr30.115320gmt+0100.31374@gate.tranemo.se>
Hi ya!
**First of all: If you want to reply to this: send the mails to = nv99701@egymn.tranemo.se, NOT the YML alone - I'm signing off for the = weekend (starting Thursday 7:00 NY time), but I still want to hear what = you say 'bout me!**
OK, so I suppose I've started a hell of a discussion here... And since = so many people are complaining on what I say, perhaps I'd do best if I'd = try to defend my words... Here goes:
Phil Carter wrote:
> Okay, I'm confused. Do you hate Yngwie, or do you think he rules? :) > *That's* why we're all getting on you about your opinions on JP -- = because > you're not making yourself clear! :)
The first CD, "Rising Force" is a very good effort by YM. I loved it = when I first heard it, and I still do. But later on in time, YM didn't = seem to develop at all. On the contrary, his play got more and more = BORING! When I heard "Magnum Opus" (1994) I gave up on him - he's got a = very good instrumental song ("Amberdawn"), but the rest SUCKS! Really! = And this man cannot write lyrics! Not a f---n' chance! I'm also a Swede, = but I would have cried out loud in frustration if all I could come up = with was YM-style - and I'm really no lyricist!
The only thing that is wrong with "Rising Force" is the sound of it. And = the lyrics, of course.
(Scroll down for JP talk)
Phil Carter also wrote this about Al Masi:
> Good grief, I didn't think I'd ever see that name again. I bought that > album back in 1989 solely on the basis of an advertisement in a mag I = was > reading (the cover was cool). A mistake. Disappointing for the most = part, > just lots of notes jumbled together at high speed. It doesn't even = have > the real melodic quality of many neoclassical shred albums -- most of = the > notes seem to have no relation to any of the other ones. Just a = jumble.=20 > Some songs were good, but they were the minority. I haven't listened = to it > in years and I never heard anything from Masi again.
You say Masi is neoclassical? Eh, I don't know about that... maybe one = track or another is, but on the whole, the album shows no influences to = me, it just stinks. Just think about track 4, "DFWM" - oh me oh my! Just = a lot of notes, one guitar alone with a delay, 32nd notes almost all = over, and no melodic content whatsoever. (BTW - I bought AotNS for 10 = SEK =3D US$ 1.30 - not worth it)
Chris Milne wrote:
> Now that i've stepped on everyone's toes...have a nice day. And it = sounds > like your a guitar player so if it isn't because of Petrucci, how did = you > end up a big enough dream theater fan to be on this list?
I fell for their music, not their musical skills (like you...?). Oh, and = I'm just passing time with this list-thingy. I'm not a guitar player, = I'm a bass player! And the ones I love are John Myung, Geddy Lee, Roscoe = Beck, Stu Hamm and Barry Sparks! JP is not in that category (he's not a = bass player), even if he does a great job for DT!
More on JP:
JP started DT, and he is therefor a PERFECT guitarist for the band (the = whole concept evolves around him, Myung and Mike P) - OK, I admit that I = can't avoid closing my eyes and jump around when I hear the solo of UAGM = and "Scarred" (methinks the latter is their best song!) - but Vai and = Satch gives me so much more. What I meant with *sparkling* play, was = that (as another man said -) Vai's and Satch's guitars *sing*, = Petrucci's guitar just sounds good. I know everybody hates me. Guess it's me and Mike Bahr... ;-)
And if JP reads this and gets hurt (I don't think so, but anyway): I = love you for the music you write, you *are* one of the best - but not = *the* best. I have the greatest respect for you, and, even if I tried, I = wouldn't be a third as good as you are.
Nathan Rood (who really didn't write to ME):
> Certainly these guys like Yngwie and Angelo can play FAST, but that's = only > ONE element to mastering the guitar. =20
That is so very right! Masi and Malmsteen are two perfect examples on = this!
Should I buy PF's "Meddle" or WDADU?
See ya,
//Per Pettersson
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 05:55:14 -0400 From: Carlos Alfaro <calfaro@caribe.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Defense of Chris Merlo Message-ID: <35484A82.B12B05F2@caribe.net>
Bafu Vai wrote;
> In a message dated 98-04-29 23:55:56 EDT, you write: > > << FOOLS!! The phrase "no, I'm very very shy..." spoken before Steve Vai's "I > Would Love To" is spoken by a WOMAN!! Not a LITTLE BOY!! CHRIS MERLO IS NOT A > HOOTENANNY!! CASE CLOSED!! > > whew, (wipes brow) gotta find some decaffienated ovaltine... > > >
He he I dont know, it still sounds like a very young Girl to me though... :)
In the stream of consciousness There is a river crying Living comes much easier Once we admit , We're dying. Dream Theater: Lines in the Sand http://premium.caribe.net/~calfaro Tech Support Rep : Caribbean Internet Service mailto:calfaro@caribe.net mailto:ytseprog@yahoo.com Universal Internet Number (ICQ) 1254229
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 03:05:05 -0600 From: "Vincent G. LuPone" <vgl@syspac.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Fastest guitarist (new spin on a BAD thread) Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980430030503.006fec48@postoffice.syspac.com>
Fastest guitarist?
hehe, well, if it counts...John Dowland :) Anybody here ever TRIED to play Dowland's lute fantasias? FUCK!!!! His i-m finger picking speed must have been incredible. Either that, or he liked writing really fast music for the 8-cat-gut-stringed instrument :)
...And while we're at it, how about Paganini? He was really well known for his violin playing, but for a time he was courting a woman who played guitar, so he learned how to play guitar, and wound up writing 150 guitar solos. Some of which are the FASTEST friggin' pieces of music I've ever heard. I saw a transcription of one tonight which was in 3/4 time, entirely in 32nd notes, with the caption "Played as fast as possible". It blew my friggin' mind.
That, my friends, is FAST :)
What about Stanley Jordan? Does he count? I'd consider his playing the fastest among contemporarys. He's not your basic picker, he plays the guitar like a piano...all tapped. I can at least fake shredding as fast as Michael Romeo or Petrucci, or Vai (not even CLOSE to as cleanly, though)....but it would take YEARS of SERIOUS study to do what Jordan does, as fast as he does it. His right hand tapping speed is unparalleled to me. If anyone here disagrees with me, I'd be VERY interested in hearing the piece you'd be referring to, 'cause there's always someone faster and better...there's always a new envelope to be pushed.
~Vinnie the slow, slow shredder.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 06:08:48 -0400 From: Carlos Alfaro <calfaro@caribe.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Defending myself (JP, Masi, YM & stuff) Message-ID: <35484DB0.B1CD0FC9@caribe.net>
Per Pettersson wrote: More on JP:
> JP started DT, and he is therefor a PERFECT guitarist for the band (the = > whole concept evolves around him, Myung and Mike P) - OK, I admit that I = > can't avoid closing my eyes and jump around when I hear the solo of UAGM = > and "Scarred" (methinks the latter is their best song!) - but Vai and = > Satch gives me so much more. What I meant with *sparkling* play, was = > that (as another man said -) Vai's and Satch's guitars *sing*, = > Petrucci's guitar just sounds good.
I dont think this is a fair comparison, you see, even with instrumental DT and LTE, JP is always playing with a more "band oriented" style than Satch and Vai, in order to hear JP "try" to make the guitar "sing" , we need to hear what would be a solo album for him, and certainly it would be different from Inst DT and LTE, in which the music would be composed so that the lead guitar would carry the whole song structure... if youd put satch or vai on a LTE-similar situation...my guess is that either theyll try and dominate the songs with their soloing ( being used to it on their records ) or just sound good within the band enviroment..but not "sing" as you put it..
In the stream of consciousness There is a river crying Living comes much easier Once we admit , We're dying. Dream Theater: Lines in the Sand http://premium.caribe.net/~calfaro Tech Support Rep : Caribbean Internet Service mailto:calfaro@caribe.net mailto:ytseprog@yahoo.com Universal Internet Number (ICQ) 1254229
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 03:56:21 PDT From: "J?rgen C. Bakken" <easy2beat@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3815 Message-ID: <19980430105621.23779.qmail@hotmail.com>
My apologizises to Merlo, as I didn't see the clue in the first response, and still can't since I erased it. Thanks for showing the way.
Log off from
JCB easy2beat@hotmail.com www.angelfire.com/az/jazz4
______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:52:55 +0100 From: Per Pettersson <nv99701@egymn.tranemo.se> To: "'Multiple recipients of list'" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Continuing to defend myself Message-ID: <98Apr30.125638gmt+0100.31374@gate.tranemo.se>
**Remember: If you want to reply to this: send the mails to=20 nv99701@egymn.tranemo.se, NOT the YML alone - I'm signing off for the weekend (starting Thursday 7:00 NY time), but I still want to hear what you say 'bout me!**
I wrote:
> JP started DT, and he is therefor a PERFECT guitarist for the band = (the =3D > whole concept evolves around him, Myung and Mike P) - OK, I admit that = I =3D > can't avoid closing my eyes and jump around when I hear the solo of = UAGM =3D > and "Scarred" (methinks the latter is their best song!) - but Vai and = =3D > Satch gives me so much more. What I meant with *sparkling* play, was = =3D > that (as another man said -) Vai's and Satch's guitars *sing*, =3D > Petrucci's guitar just sounds good.
Carlos Alfaro replied:
> I dont think this is a fair comparison, you see, even with = instrumental DT and > LTE, JP is always playing with a more "band oriented" style than Satch = and > Vai, in order to hear JP "try" to make the guitar "sing" , we need to = hear > what would be a solo album for him, and certainly it would be = different from > Inst DT and LTE, in which the music would be composed so that the lead = guitar > would carry the whole song structure... if youd put satch or vai on a > LTE-similar situation...my guess is that either theyll try and = dominate=20 > the songs with their soloing ( being used to it on their records ) or = just=20 > sound good within the band enviroment..but not "sing" as you put it..
I earlier said that my comparison really was unfair! I know it's unfair! = I know that JP is a band member and Vai & Satch & Co. are (almost) fully = indepent solo artists. I know that JP is tied to the songs and has to = see to the entire band, while S&V can pretty much do whatever they want. = Forgive me if I've taken up too much of your time, but have in mind that = I'm still a very young man, with a musical mind still under serious = development. What I said may have been oh so wrong, but when I wrote it, = it felt just right! Peace!
A guy who's Learning to Live:
//Per Pettersson
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 3818 **************************
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