YTSEJAM Digest 3507
Today's Topics:
1) More rankings-
by Matt Stanich <mwstanic@mtu.edu>
2) Re:Metallica
by Angus53 <Angus53@aol.com>
3) Metallica
by Jason Birzer <Longshot@pressroom.com>
4) Re: solos and the essense of Zappa live :)
by Jon Parmet <jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
5) Excellent demographics
by svjohnson@amoco.com
6) Simon Philips, Iced Earth, Metallica <--> DT
by Vito Staedler <vito.staedler@alcatel.ch>
7) police siren
by Matt Stanich <mwstanic@mtu.edu>
8) Argh
by someone@prognosis.com
9) Sorry, but I had to speak upI
by SchnippX <SchnippX@aol.com>
10) For Sale: Kansas "Freaks of Nature" (NDTC)
by Lobsterback <hender@wam.umd.edu>
11) Solos - Michael Schenker / AOL
by Dan Senko <dwsenko@us.ibm.com>
12) Re: Argh
by CLARK ABEL <99ABEL@alma.edu>
13) You may be blond, but Kev's MIA.
by Syrinx <syrinx@dreamt.org>
14) Re: Metallica vs. DT
by Andrew Embler <aembler@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
15) Re: shirley
by Angellaa <Angellaa@aol.com>
16) Re: Metropolis Part 2 lyrics!
by Damon Fibraio <Damon74@concentric.net>
17) Just a Reminder...
by mall@daltek.net
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:22:33 -0500
From: Matt Stanich <mwstanic@mtu.edu>
To: ytsejam <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: More rankings-
Message-ID: <34CDFBB9.66AC@mtu.edu>
Hello All-
Here is an idea. If you want to rank your stupidity, you can see how
many of the descriptions you fit, then rank them w/ numbers by how
closely you fit, and finaly give each a reletive stupidity ranking. Now
add up your total score, and divide by the number of total points, and
find out how close to totally stupid you really are. Have fun:)
Matt Stanich
P.S. "Muhahahahahaaaaa!!!" - thats perfect.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:34:24 EST
From: Angus53 <Angus53@aol.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re:Metallica
Message-ID: <7318f965.34cdfe82@aol.com>
James is no poseur just cause he cut his hair. He is like 36 years old or
some shit. How many people do you know look just like they did 10 years ago.
Times change, and people grow up. James is getting older, and he's adjusting
nicely. The Mighty Met still rock!! Later
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:10:06 -0500
From: Jason Birzer <Longshot@pressroom.com>
To: YTSEJAM@ax.com
Subject: Metallica
Message-ID: <9465.980127@pressroom.com>
> But what I'm wondering is why when Metallica makes an album that's
>different from everything they've done in the past, they've sold out, and
>when DT does FII, they're just "maturing" and "playing from the heart" and
>"trimming the fat"? Sure Metallica's new image is sickening, but does anyone
>really think that if they just wanted to sell albums Metallica would have
>done something so drastically different? I know everyone says "Metal is
>dead", and supposedly Metallica knew this and tried to cash in on the
>alternative thing, but does anyone really think they wouldn't have sold ten
>bajillion albums even if they had just written another [insert the name of
>your favorite Metallica album]? And how hard would it really be for them to
>write that same album again? Not very. Alot of guitar players on this list
>could do it for them.
I've been trying to argue this from the beginning. If Metallica
really wanted to sell out, wouldn't they have written TBA 2? (Of
course, they did do Unforgiven II...) I just think that we are seeing
influences from members other than Lars or Hetfield. Of course, I
never thought of Metallica as a great band anyways...
Anyone see the video of "Unforgiven II" eMpTyV last night? Not a bad
song, but not as good as the original. The video made no sense at
all, of course.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason Birzer There is a theory which states that if anyone
"The Longshot" discovers what the Universe is for and why it
is here, it will instantly disappear and be
Longshot@Pressroom.com replaced by something even more bizarre and
inexplicable. There is another theory which
states that this has already happened -Douglas Adams
---------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:37:28 +0000
From: Jon Parmet <jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
To: "Harm's Way" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: solos and the essense of Zappa live :)
Message-ID: <34CE0D48.1F1A@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
Andreas:
> I can't believe that a discussion about soloing can go on this long
> without anybody mentioning FRANK ZAPPA.
Ok, I posted earlier on the topic of 'solos' and mentioned only DT's
members. Having had the chance to see Zappa live, though, and given that
MP cites Zappa as an influence, I feel it's still marginally DTC :)
When I caught him live, some of the musicians (Bozzio et al) behind him
were ripping some insane jazz thing for about 5-10 minutes. Zappa had
brought around 10 musicians with him and several had left the stage at
this point. Shortly into this, 18,000+ fans were searching the floor for
their jaws :) This was before the guitar solo...
During this time, Frank had put his guitar down, found a comfortable
position on a stool and crossed his legs to just chill for a bit. He
proceeded to open a Thermos and pour himself a drink, all just matter of
fact (a la JP with the cheese/pate/crackers but for a more extended
chill period :)
He would occasionally look out at the audience or over to the band. No
biggie. Then when HE felt he was ready, he put the cover back on the
Thermos, got up slowly and like it was all choreographed, picked up his
guitar and right on beat, came in for about a 5 minute solo as the band
now played behind him.
It was a sick solo with Frank making weird facial and bodily contortions
as he was no longer in control of his bodilly movements. I've been told
this happens when one transcends the instrument. He was searching for
the perfect replacement slipper at the first church of appliantology as
Fido, confusing it for a muffin, had eaten one of them :)
Regards,
Jon
-- *------------*----------------------------*--------------* | Jon Parmet | jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov | 617-494-2851 | *------------*----------------------------*--------------*------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:57:11 -0600 From: svjohnson@amoco.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Excellent demographics Message-ID: <199801271657.AA05858@interlock.amoco.com>
By tally of the number of "Spice World" posts here, I never realized how many 12-year-old girls subscribed to this list. D'orx! Steve
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 18:00:59 +0100 From: Vito Staedler <vito.staedler@alcatel.ch> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Simon Philips, Iced Earth, Metallica <--> DT Message-ID: <34CE12CB.35C4@alcatel.ch>
First I'd like to say:
Just let Metallica be Metallica and DT be DT. You should better go down on your knees and pray that metal has survived until now. At least here in Zuerich, Switzerland with its ever growing techno generation ; I'm glad to know few people, who still know what rocks. There's ONE yes OOOONNNNNEEEE rock-bar left. In the whole city. And listen to European charts at the radio. Really rulez, huh? Or are there some Ytsejammers who like the Backstreetboys ? ;o)
And By the way JAMES HETFIELD FUCKIN ROCKS!!!
Do you guys know ICED EARTH ? My favourite album: THE DARK SAGA. Someone else who likes them?
Does someone know if SIMON PHILIPS has out a new album? The last I got is SYMBIOSIS. And that one is one of my favourite albums.
SPIDER
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 12:12:21 -0500 From: Matt Stanich <mwstanic@mtu.edu> To: ytsejam <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: police siren Message-ID: <34CE1574.532A@mtu.edu>
Hello-
I hear a "siren" sound in TAMP in the transition fron the end of the first verse -you can take away my heros, can you take away my pain- and the start of the first corous -Take away my pain,I'm not...- As for Anna Lee I dont relly hear a siren in there, but then again a time would be helpful. (TAMP time is around 0:55)
Matt Stanich
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 12:09:02 +0000 From: someone@prognosis.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Argh Message-ID: <199801271801.KAA24408@odin.ax.com>
> From: CLARK ABEL <99ABEL@alma.edu>
I should have guessed that you would resurface for this. :) > But what I'm wondering is why when Metallica makes an album that's > different from everything they've done in the past, they've sold out,
Because Metallica basically said, in so many words, We'll never make a video, or wear makeup or cut our hair and play poppy power ballads... and now look at them? Selling out doesn't ruin a band. To an extent, DT sort of did by their attitudes, though I really can't agree with people who say that this album is a completely different and unnatural change for the band. For me, though, someone with that little integrity is hard to tolerate. It's not just a change of heart... they abandoned every tenet that they believed in, and somehow, mysteriously, their new albums got a lot more MTV play, radio coverage, etc... must just be a lucky break, huh? I'm sure this popular explosion they've experienced isn't a manufactured event...
> but does anyone really think that if they just wanted to sell albums > Metallica would have done something so drastically different?
> dead", and supposedly Metallica knew this and tried to cash in on the > alternative thing, but does anyone really think they wouldn't have sold ten > bajillion albums even if they had just written another [insert the name of > your favorite Metallica album]?
Do you comprehend the difference in their "success" between their earlier albums and their later? It's not just metalheads listening to them now... it's all of the people hypnotized by MTV
As for your comparison to DT selling out, make up your own mind. But be conscious of the fact that they have not abandoned their sound... there are still long solos, complex drums and bass... there's Stick... they're still doing odd times, and high tempo music, etc. Listen to the disc. You'll find YNM, Hollow Years, and Anna Lee are the only ones that are really commercialized. I'm willing to accept that because I don't care if something is commercial or not. I listen to a lot of pop music, and some things I'd be shot by my Arizona Jammer buddies if they saw in my collection. What I have a problem with, is a dramatic change in sound that is clearly, to my mind, motivated by cash alone, when the band was steadfast in demanding that they'll always be heavy, etc. They're a different band now, and they should use a different band name. I know.. Bush is already taken. I guess if they had any talent, I'd be more forgiving towards their lack of integrity (as I am with Yngwie, though I don't have his last 20 albums).
But you know... if anyone wants to continue this with me, do it in private e-mail. This kind of post goes against my own integrity. :) Nothing personal, it's just I'd rather not further sully this list.
"Apathy is the "suckbird" on cynicism's bloated carcass." - Dennis Miller
Chris Ptacek someone@prognosis.com http://www.prognosis.com/madsman Go Home and Practice!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:09:59 EST From: SchnippX <SchnippX@aol.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Sorry, but I had to speak upI Message-ID: <fe3ab612.34ce22f8@aol.com>
Hi again, last (and first) time I wrote something I got no answer, but I guess I should just go on writing comments:
Sometimes I wonder about how old aome of you/us are. You want to rate DT songs on a scale ? Who are you ? God of good taste? I liked Clark Abels comment on the DT v. Metallica very much. Everybody should read that carefully. There's no problem liking the new album (I peronally think it's great), but fact is that it is more commercial and in German interviews they confirmed that they want to hit the American marked and had to write a little easier. But what the fuck ? It's still great music. Why does that bother you. It's THEIR music, THEY want it that way. That's why the name on the cover says DT not Kelly HollyBolly.
I liked Colonel Mustards beer logic, a sent it forward ASAP.
I like music and am from Hamburg, which doesn't matter, but try to bring some good news like the concert in France again!!!
cu s.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:26:49 -0500 From: Lobsterback <hender@wam.umd.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: For Sale: Kansas "Freaks of Nature" (NDTC) Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980127132649.0071836c@pop.wam.umd.edu>
I accidentally wound up with an extra copy, so I offer it up for grabs -- $6 post-paid for Kansas "Freaks of Nature" still in shrink-wrap. Anyone interested, please E-mail me privately so as to not waste even more 'Jam space, or as I like to call it, doubleplusungoodwastewidth.
Brian "Ministry of Truth" Henderson
=========================== Name: W. Brian Henderson, Esq. Contact: hender@wam.umd.edu ROBOT-CENTRAL: http://www.wam.umd.edu/~hender/ ===========================
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:46:35 -0500 From: Dan Senko <dwsenko@us.ibm.com> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Solos - Michael Schenker / AOL Message-ID: <5040200010777252000002L022*@MHS>
Ah, Michael on Rock Bottom. I definitely agree with this caveat ...
the solo/extended jam with the keyboard player on the live cd "Strangers in the Night" is even better. Always thought this was one of the CDs I would have to have on a deserted island for those times when you just need to crunch and get cranked up (of course, with loads of DT content)!
Some of you must be wondering ... Ok, so I'm 30 something and I was into UFO in the late 70s and 80s before DT even existed!
Re: >> Aol is canceling unlimited access in March.
So is IBM's Internet Connection. Going to 100 hours/month for $19.95 and then $1.95/hr.
>> Effective April 1, 1998, customers currently on the IBM Internet >> Connection Services Unlimited Plan will automatically be moved to a >> new Comprehensive Plan. The Comprehensive Plan will allow usage up >> to 100 hours per month. For the small percentage of our customers >> that do exceed 100 hours a month of usage, there will be an >> additional charge per hour added to the base price.
Dan ... a bit dated but still jammin' ======================================================================== Dan Senko "If we don't action now, we'll settle for nothin' later" - Rage Against the Machine
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:09:24 -0400 (EDT) From: CLARK ABEL <99ABEL@alma.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Argh Message-ID: <01ISVGEVPBUA8Y65BA@alma.edu>
>From: someone@prognosis.com > I should have guessed that you would resurface for this. :)
Just causing trouble as usual.
>> But what I'm wondering is why when Metallica makes an album that's >> different from everything they've done in the past, they've sold out, > > Because Metallica basically said, in so many words, We'll never make >a video, or wear makeup or cut our hair and play poppy power >ballads... and now look at them? Selling out doesn't ruin a band. Videos and poppy power balads? So basically what you're saying (and please feel free to disagree) is that musically Metallica's become no worse than DT, it's just that they said they weren't going to? And DT didn't sell out because even though they do the same stuff, they've said all along that they were all about videos and poppy power balads so they're allowed to do them without selling out and Metallica's not. You're saying that "selling out" (which incidentally I think is a really stupid, meaningless term that no one will ever agree upon) has nothing to do with the music being played, but the image that was originally being portrayed and whether the band remained true to that. I doubt you'll actually defend that stance and instead say that I'm putting words in your mouth, but that's what you're implying with your argument about Metallica. On the other hand, if this *is* your definition of "selling out", I doubt many people would agree with it.
>they abandoned every >tenet that they believed in, and somehow, mysteriously, their new >albums got a lot more MTV play, radio coverage, etc... must just be a >lucky break, huh?
No, I'm sure it was very much calculated. My point was that DT has , to some extent, though admittedly not to the same extent, done the same thing, but you try to attribute an entirely different cause when it's a band you like. You said recently that you think a band has to actually sell a lot of albums to sell out, but I don't think anyone's going to agree with you on that one. I fail to see how it's any more noble to change your sound to try to sell more albums and fail than to do it and succeed. Again, the change was not nearly so drastic for DT as it was for Metallica, but who are you or I to decide where to draw the line?
> Do you comprehend the difference in their "success" between their >earlier albums and their later?
Yep. Actually, I can't truly comprehend any one "artist" selling that many copies of anything, but it happens every day.
>It's not just metalheads listening >to them now... it's all of the people hypnotized by MTV
Well first of all I should say again that I don't want to defend Metallica... I think they're a joke. But they did basically give a big middle finger to all their old fans... now wouldn't just doing what the fans want also be one sign of "selling out"? When a band like Metallica sells a lot of albums, people are going to say they sold out no matter how they do it. Chris, if you think a good band "progresses" by doing something fresh with every album, then didn't Metallica sell out a long time ago when they did the exact same album three times in a row? It seems to me like they're finally "progressing" now. I'm not interested in arguing whether the recent changes are progression or regression; I'll just say that I doubt the new stuff could be much simpler than the old. -Clark
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:20:40 -0500 (EST) From: Syrinx <syrinx@dreamt.org> To: GELPH <GELPH@aol.com> Subject: You may be blond, but Kev's MIA. Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980127141624.50A-100000@tornado.ocis.temple.edu>
> I'm trying to get ahold of Kevin Moore's "stuff". I've tried his so called > web page "Chromakey.com" but don't seem to get too far. Could be my blondness > coming out, could be that the web page is fried. Either way, I'm dying to > hear his solo stuff and would be most appreciative to anyone who could point > me in the right direction. Thanks in advance all you studs!!
I spoke to Jim Pitulski (Kevin's manager) yesterday, and he has *no* idea where Kevin is, but "i know he's alive, so when he's ready, he'll come out of his shell" or something to that efect.
Well, since ChromaKey is dead (for now, at least), i can offer anyone who wants the demo material or the chromakey demo a copy of the material. If you want it, just email me.
- mike.
* * * * * * * * e-mail: syrinx@dreamt.org / syrinx@mindspring.com erotomania!: http://www.mindspring.com/~syrinx/ offical lemur voice homepage: http://www.mindspring.com/~syrinx/lemur.htm maintainer of the genesis frequently asked questions list: http://www.mindspring.com/~syrinx/genesis/genesis-faq.htm
(c) 1998 Erotomania, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 98 11:35:45 -0800 From: Andrew Embler <aembler@gladstone.uoregon.edu> To: "A daily dose of Ytsejam..." <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Metallica vs. DT Message-ID: <199801271934.LAA02826@network-services.uoregon.edu>
]From Jam 3506 > But what I'm wondering is why when Metallica makes an album that's > different from everything they've done in the past, they've sold out, and > when DT does FII, they're just "maturing" and "playing from the heart" and > "trimming the fat"?
Now, this argument really intrigued me, and I think it brings up some valid points, but, I don't really think it's so much as commercial vs. progressive (ie: long) songs as it is good songs vs. crap. (Sorry for all you Load/ReLoad fans out there...I've never been really into too much Metallica). I'll give you a topic:
Lines in the Sand New Millenium Burning My Soul vs.
Ain't My Bitch 2 x 4 (ugh) The Memory Remains
Now, discuss. :) Some might say that I'm not adequately representing the more commercial tracks on Falling to Infinity. But, in my opinion, I'd rather listen to TAMP, HY, *OR* Anna Lee as opposed to most things on Load/ReLoad. I'm not so sure about YNM, however :)
Just my thoughts
Andrew Embler aembler@gladstone.uoregon.edu http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~aembler/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:37:56 EST From: Angellaa <Angellaa@aol.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: shirley Message-ID: <3f43f608.34ce3795@aol.com>
In a message dated 98-01-26 20:02:26 EST, you write:
<< > Oh, and I finally got a listen to the PRE-Shirley versions of Take Away > My Pain and New Millennium and so forth.... > > ..and I haven't been that pissed off about a producer's involvment > ever. Whoever I knocked down when FII came out an' wanted Shirley's > head on a stick, I fully understand now! The demo (btw, this demo I > heard was WAAAAY too good to be a demo, production wise) version of TAMP > just blows me away!!! I understand that the artists themselves decided > to keep the Mad About You drum beat in the song, but the way it was with > the heavy stomp groove on the guitar half way through the song is just > so much BETTER... And New Millennium's demo on the DTIFC X-Mas CD is so > un-godly heavy it isn't funny. Shirley took away DT's balls. > >>
one quick question to you all what did kevin shirley do that is so awful? i mean why does everyone seem to hate him so much? thanx Angella
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:39:37 -0500 (EST) From: Damon Fibraio <Damon74@concentric.net> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Metropolis Part 2 lyrics! Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980127143919.5527D-100000@galileo.cris.com>
OK, I think I have had enough of wondering. Can somebody make me a tape copy of this christmas CD thing?
-- Damon Fibraio, damon74@concentric.net Keyboardist, Vocalist, wanna-be computer consultant "One likes to believe in the freedom of music But glittering prizes and endless compromises shatter the illusion of integrity,."--Spirit of Radio, Rush, 1980
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 05:52:34 -0500 From: mall@daltek.net To: mall@daltek.net Subject: Just a Reminder... Message-ID: <199801281052.FAA28024@condor.daltek.net>
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------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 3507 **************************
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