YTSEJAM Digest 3622
Today's Topics:
1) Adding more fish to the barrel
by Lobsterback <hender@wam.umd.edu>
2) Mmmm, Jazz IIIs
by "Elydian" <elydian@netcomuk.co.uk>
3) Re: Yes - the vocals are painful.
by Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br>
4) Re: Economy Picking
by Awake77 <Awake77@aol.com>
5) Re: economy picking
by The iban <Theiban@aol.com>
6) Re: Where can I get the black pics?
by The iban <Theiban@aol.com>
7) Re: Alternica on MTV March 21st (fwd)
by Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br>
8) Yes
by Jason Birzer <Longshot@pressroom.com>
9) Re: economy picking
by CLARK ABEL <99ABEL@alma.edu>
10) Picks, Up/Downstrokes, Obi Wan Satriani
by Uroborosss <Uroborosss@aol.com>
11) Re: Japanese "Hollow Years"
by MTeiper <MTeiper@aol.com>
12) Re: German?
by Pat Worrall <louie@dublin.crosswinds.net>
13) Petrucci's Signature Sound; Mesa Boogie...
by someone@prognosis.com
14) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3616
by Damon Fibraio <damon74@injersey.com>
15) Re: Look, mama! There's an airplane up in the sky.... BOOM! heheheh
by Damon Fibraio <damon74@injersey.com>
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Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 15:43:51 -0500
From: Lobsterback <hender@wam.umd.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Adding more fish to the barrel
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980306154351.00736e68@pop.wam.umd.edu>
My roommate directed me to the JamTV site (http://www.jamtv.com) with the
promise of something interesting. He was right. Here's part of a
mini-article concerning the Deep Purple tour...
>>>
Deep Purple is in negotiations with Warner Bros. for Abandon's domestic
release, and the album will be distributed by EMI outside of the United
States. The band will embark on a shed tour in August with Dream Theatre
and ELP sharing the bill. No tour dates have been announced yet. (Isaac
Josephson)
>>>
Deep Purple, Dream TheatER, *AND* ELP?!! All I can say to that is...HOT
DAMN!!
Brian Henderson of the Miami Herald preemptively raves, "This will be the
best concert I've ever seen! 4 stars - a real knock-out!"
And then, Yes business...
>I bought Yes' Drama about 6 months ago having heard all about their
>progressive roots and technical ability. The music is brillient but the
>vocals... dear God the vocals are rotten.
<snip>
>Anyway, I got a copy of Hightlights - ok music, a bit airy-fairy but the
>vocals are brutal.
<snip>
>Is this a common complaint of Yes' music?
Personally, I think Jon's voice is one of the best in rock music, and is
only helped by Squire's harmonies. Of course, I came into Dream Theater's
music from more of a classic-rock angle, and less than a metal-angle than
most people on this list, I think, so maybe I'm in the minority here. As
far as Yes-fans-as-a-whole goes, the general opinion is that Anderson's a
great singer.
Of course, that ain't Jon on "Drama", so, er...
Brian "Roger Ebert" Henderson
===========================
Name:
W. Brian Henderson, Esq.
Contact:
hender@wam.umd.edu
ROBOT-CENTRAL:
http://www.wam.umd.edu/~hender/
===========================
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 21:15:55 -0000
From: "Elydian" <elydian@netcomuk.co.uk>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Mmmm, Jazz IIIs
Message-ID: <01bd4945$0d39ba20$88e82ac2@elydian>
I just got hold of some jazz IIIs. This is by far the best pick I've used. I
was holding sextuplets at 144bpm comfortably. Just thought I'd let people
know, if they're looking for picks.
By the way, Chris, how do you pronounce Ptacek?
==========================================
In a world which your mind controls, belief is reality.
-- E-Mail: elydian@netcomuk.co.uk -- ICQ UIN: 1491970 -- Web Pages: http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~elydian/ ==========================================------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 18:17:58 -0300 (EST) From: Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Yes - the vocals are painful. Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980306180641.14850A-100000@dijkstra.linux.ime.usp.br>
On Fri, 6 Mar 1998, Charoenkwan Luesumphan wrote:
> > Hey, I'm trying to get into Yes also, and I agree that the worst > >part about it are Jon Anderson's vocals and the vocal harmonies. I don't > >know exactly what is the point that makes it very hard to get into, but I > >think that the falsettos are the main reason. > > You may have to check again that Drama DOES NOT have Jon Anderson on > vocals, Roger.
Well, I was not aware of this fact -- I don't know "Drama". I just replied about Yes in general and not about that particular album. All the albums by Yes that I know of feature Jon Anderson on vocals:
- Yessongs; - Fragile; - Relayer; - The Yes Album; - 90125.
For me, the hardest to get into was "The Yes Album", probably because it was the second album of theirs that I heard (it's funny, though, that I didn't have the same reaction with "Fragile", which was my first Yes album). I really think that "The Gates of Delirium" best part is the instrumental middle section. I really prefer Yes instrumentals ("Mood for a Day" or "The Clap", for instance).
Oh, 90125 isn't as hard to get into as the others, obviously.
The next album of theirs that I'll be checking will be "Tales from Topographic Oceans", if I can find it.
Many people call me weird because I'm not scared with Gentle Giant's "odd" (so they say) vocal harmonies on "On Reflection", but have problems with those Yes vocal harmonies.
I think that my problem is not exactly with Jon Anderson's vocals, but with Yes' vocal harmonies... I simply find them impenetrable.
> Take care, > AE
Oh, BTW, thank you all for pointing out that Jon Anderson's vocals aren't falsetto. Then, I might jump to the conclusion conclude that he has the strangest voice that I have ever heard from a vocalist. :-))
Wow.
[]s, Roger...
-- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - rbrito@ime.usp.br - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Undergraduate Computer Science Student - "Windows? Linux and X!" Bootleg/trade page: http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/bootleg.html =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 16:20:07 EST From: Awake77 <Awake77@aol.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Economy Picking Message-ID: <ccef8f6c.35006889@aol.com>
>I'm still not convinced about that economy picking thing. For example,
>how would play something like this
>--15--12----12---------- >---------15----15--12---
>or the end of innocence faded
>----------------------------------------------------- >---------------------5--9------------8--12--8--------- >--------------------------8--11--8-------------------- >--9--6---6--9---6--9--------------9----------12--9--- >-------7------7-------------------------------------10 >-------------------------------------------------------
>or a simple pattern like this >---------9-------9-------9-------9 >---7--10---7--10---7--10---7--10----
>without using alternate picking. I just don't think you could get the >same >kind of speed.
Ive found that Economy is really good for a linear passage of notes that move with such speed that accenting wouldnt be a problem. Licks that require string skipping or trying to pick an arpeggio (not sweep it) are much better suited for strict alternate picking, and if you try to play something like this with economy picking it comes out sounding like a sloppy mess. I
-chris
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Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 16:22:37 EST From: The iban <Theiban@aol.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: economy picking Message-ID: <503a1245.3500691f@aol.com>
In a message dated 98-03-06 15:46:52 EST, you write:
<< or a simple pattern like this ---------9-------9-------9-------9 ---7--10---7--10---7--10---7--10---- without using alternate picking. I just don't think you could get the same kind of speed. >>
my thoughts exactally, the first 3 notes alternate is obviously the best, the 2nd 3 notes, "economy picking" seems to be easier, but to go back to alternate picking for the next 3 would feel kinda lame. stick with strictly alternate and you can keep a constant rhythm with your right hand instead of a riggid rhythm
Rocky
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Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 16:23:40 EST From: The iban <Theiban@aol.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Where can I get the black pics? Message-ID: <88e7fda7.3500695e@aol.com>
In a message dated 98-03-06 15:46:52 EST, you write:
<< Where can I get the black pics? >>
come on now, you can't be serious, the pick is so small nobody is going to see your using a red pick. they both play the same.
Rocky
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Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 18:25:51 -0300 (EST) From: Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Alternica on MTV March 21st (fwd) Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980306181935.14850B-100000@dijkstra.linux.ime.usp.br>
On Fri, 6 Mar 1998, Der Herr Bodinger wrote:
> sorry, roger, I just have to say that i wouldn't want to waste a tape > that could be better used to record pro wrestling...
:-)
> an alternica show, plus it's on eMpTyV...as if i needed more reason > not to record it...hee hee...
Of course, every prejudice isn't healthy. If MTV were about to show a Dream Theater special of 2 hours, I'd really love to see all those hipocrites from the list who would stick to their guns and still refuse to see the show.
Oh, just before I forget:
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Main Entry: 1choice Pronunciation: 'chois Function: noun Etymology: Middle English chois, from Old French, from choisir to choose, of Germanic origin; akin to Old High German kiosan to choose -- more at CHOOSE Date: 13th century 1 : the act of choosing : SELECTION 2 : power of choosing : OPTION 3 a : the best part : CREAM b : a person or thing chosen 4 : a sufficient number and variety to choose among 5 : care in selecting 6 : a grade of meat between prime and good - of choice : to be preferred
synonyms CHOICE, OPTION, ALTERNATIVE, PREFERENCE, SELECTION, ELECTION mean the act or opportunity of choosing or the thing chosen. CHOICE suggests the opportunity or privilege of choosing freely <freedom of choice>. OPTION implies a power to choose that is specifically granted or guaranteed <the option of paying now or later>. ALTERNATIVE implies a necessity to choose one and reject another possibility <equally attractive alternatives>. PREFERENCE suggests the guidance of choice by one's judgment or predilections <a preference for cool weather>. SELECTION implies a wide range of choice <a varied selection of furniture>. ELECTION implies an end or purpose which requires exercise of judgment <doing a tax return forces certain elections on you>. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> this alternica bashing brought to you by chuck...
This dictionary definition brought to you by Merrian Webster on line dictionary and Rogerio Brito.
[]s, Roger...
-- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - rbrito@ime.usp.br - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Undergraduate Computer Science Student - "Windows? Linux and X!" Bootleg/trade page: http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/bootleg.html =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 16:19:31 -0500 From: Jason Birzer <Longshot@pressroom.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Yes Message-ID: <16680.980306@pressroom.com>
There seems to be some confusion. Jon Anderson does NOT sing on Drama. Trevor Horn does. I should know, I have the album. Just wanted to make that clear.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- Jason Birzer There is a theory which states that if anyone "The Longshot" discovers what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be Longshot@Pressroom.com replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened -Douglas Adams ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 17:29:46 -0500 (EST) From: CLARK ABEL <99ABEL@alma.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: economy picking Message-ID: <01IUCR22QGNM8WW6CG@alma.edu>
>I'm still not convinced about that economy picking thing. For example, >how would play something like this
Actually, I think this is why some of the pro-economy pickers don't understand the logic behind pure alternate picking. I use the economy picking method pretty much exclusively, which doesn't mean that I'm defending it as better, because I understand how pure alternate picking would probably give a player better accuracy. However, on paper economy picking really IS better (just in theory, I'm not saying it's true in practice) because if you have to go around a string then obviously you do, but when you don't, you don't. So economy picking is alternate picking, but when you can play two notes with one stroke, you do. I can understand how this might be consdidered cheating, but I'm not sure it's really easier to learn than pure alternate picking. As I see it, each has a basic inherent challenge to overcome. Pure alternate picking would obviously take a while to get used to the concept of going around strings just to maintain the up-down pattern, but it takes a great deal of practice to get even articulation out of the sweep-picking component of economy picking. You can't just let the pick slap off one string and onto another; it has to be a controlled motion to maintain an even rhythm. I think this poster was confused by the terminology being used and he thought that economy picking is totally different from alternate picking, which it isn't. The basic idea behind the economy version is the same, you just cheat where you can. So there are a lot of licks or solos or whatever where the pure alternate picker and the economy picker would end up playing them exactly the same, such as the ones in the example given by whoever posted the quote above. Hope this clarifies, sorry if *I'm* the one who's confused, and not you. -Clark
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Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 17:43:02 EST From: Uroborosss <Uroborosss@aol.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Picks, Up/Downstrokes, Obi Wan Satriani Message-ID: <dec7ae9f.35007bf8@aol.com>
Picks. I use four picks. They each do different things. The main pick is a Jim Dunlop USA Nylon .88mm. Real thick, works for electric or acoustic. Won't break across the edge like those speckled Fender mediums. (As my picking style changed from perpendicular-to-the-strings to diagonal-across-the-strings I needed to upgrade to heavier stuff.) Secondary is the Jim Dunlop Jazz III, red not black. These things are great for precision, the perfect compliment to chromatic exercises. I like the red ones more than the black ones - Vernon Reid was right, the tone is glassier.
Trimary is the Dava Control pick, a flexy turquoise chameleon capable of changing from light to heavy just by moving your thumb. Versatility, ya know? I keep one in my pocket at all times, good for all occasions, plus you NEVER KNOW when someone's gonna hand you a guitar. Quaternary is a silver Teckpick, made of aluminum with holes drilled in the top to make it look more like a futuristic machine than a plain old piece of aluminum. I use this when I get annoyed with the JD .88mm bending with the strings instead of cutting through them, but don't want to use the teeny tiny Jazz III. A regular-sized pick carved from a sturdier substance than the thick plastic of the Jazz III. And let's not forget about the massive attack aluminum provides.
Strokage. I begin all chromatic, four-note-per-string exercises with an upstroke. Upwards or downwards, going up the strings (A to D) or going down the strings (B to G). This is true of two-note-per-string stuff too. As for three-note-per-string techniques, I can begin with either. I'm versatile, just like Hannibal Lecter.
Joe Satriani. I recently acquired "Crystal Planet." I haven't enjoyed a Satch album like this since "Flying In A Blue Dream." His tone is back from the muddy swamp that engulfed his last album. The production is CLEAR for once, as in the drums AND the bass AND the guitar are ALL IN FRONT. One listen to "House Full of Bullets" (track #2) should settle in anyone's mind what exactly set Joe apart from Steve Vai and Eric Johnson on those I-IV-V blues jams during the encores of the first G3 tour. Listen to this song and try to imagine it's Steve Vai playing. I couldn't. The blues leans more towards the art of silence and where to place it than virtuoso rock guitar ever will. In my opinion this is a border between guitar continents that Joe has successfully crossed, and it really does separate him from a lot of other shredders.
Bafu Satria--er--Vai
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Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 17:48:46 EST From: MTeiper <MTeiper@aol.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Japanese "Hollow Years" Message-ID: <403291b4.35007d50@aol.com>
Howdy -
Forgive me if this topic has been covered recently... I still have to read Digests 3608 through 3621... but I haven't heard anything about the Japanese HY being released yet. What the dillio? Is it out? If so, where can we get it and what's the final track listing? If not, does anyone know when definitely? I haven't seen shit about it in Goldmine Magazine... I figgered SOME dealer out there would be talking 'bout it.
Thaingks.... Matt T.
NP: Saviour Machine "I" & "II" (Random Play) <-- This is some GREAT stuff!!!
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Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 16:45:51 -0600 From: Pat Worrall <louie@dublin.crosswinds.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: German? Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980306164551.007d7100@pop.dublin.crosswinds.net>
Saigon Kick have 4 albums in this order:
Saigon Kick (self-titled) The Lizard Water Devil In The Details
Jason also has a solo cd out.
Check out the official Saigon Kick Website:
>My reply to this is, "uh, okay, whatever". In reference to all questions, I >wasn't bashing Saigon Kick. I rather enjoy listening to The Lizard. I was >simply making a statement about them disapearing off the face of the earth. >Unless they have been spitting out new albums that I havn't seen. Then I >would have to eat my words and go check it out. I'm out.... > >
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Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 17:03:48 +0000 From: someone@prognosis.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Petrucci's Signature Sound; Mesa Boogie... Message-ID: <199803062302.PAA27404@odin.ax.com>
> From: Phil Carter <satriani@negia.net> > That's also kind of funny, because I think that Morse is one of the few > players out there with a fingerprint sound that is absolutely and > completely his own. I also include Satch, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Eric > Johnson, Steve Vai, Eddie Van Halen, Joe Perry and Tony MacAlpine in this > group -- but I don't think that Petrucci has quite developed his own sound > yet. He's damn close, though.
You know, even after Awake, I felt this way... and then on ACoS, I was starting to think he was developing his own sound, but there was a lack of real "soloing" on the tune to really say one way or another (just a few "licks" and a couple melodies... nothing that sounded improvised, or sounded like it was composed as a solo). With Falling Into Infinity (My favorite DT album, by leaps and bounds) I thought he really nailed it. If you have the instructional video ("Rock Discipline" for anyone who's that out of it) you start to hear his ideas, and sounds, in a way that seperate him from other players... especially in the short out-takes. The gipper, as it were, is Liquid Tension Experiment. A buddy showed it to me a couple weeks ago (if that long ago) and you could just hear something "Petrucci" in the licks. It's as though he melted the techniques from the solos on I&W (on which I think he wrote solos that he had to work hard to play correctly) with the fluidity of those on Awake, and the phrasing and awesome note choice on FII. As he is a practicing guitarist (doesn't just wake up in the morning and say "You know what? I really am 'THE SHIT'!") he's kept all of his old bag, and just gotten better and better. With this album, I really have to think he's one of the finest picker's out there... even when it's not as fast as your Stumps and Todd Duanes, it sounds better... his pick attack, fluidity, and great timing... they make him stand out. There is no doubt in my mind that he's UTTERLY Morse influenced, with this LTE thang... I mean, anyone who listens to Morse will hear it... but it's fresh. It sounds like an INFLUENCE, not like he's ripping off "Cut To the Chase" or "Oddessey." I will just ignore the people who post here to say how LTE sucks, and how it's all boring and worthless (because someone has to be the cool guy who disagrees with that Ptacek asshole) I'll just assume that most people recognize how "cool" this album is, when they get it on Tuesday. :)
Mesa Boogie... Has pissed me off. They're nice people... but my TriAxis has broken AGAIN... I have had it back for 2 months after paying $250 to get it fixed, and now it sounds like I'm playing guitar through a big piece of rubber. I'm gonna bring it into a shop this weekend, and I'm getting really tempted to drop it, and get something more suited to direct home recording. The problem then, is this: is there a processor on the market with speaker emulation or a direct recording stereo output that's made with the assumption that you're going into a board, and not a cabinet, that does NOT have the noise gate problem? By that, I mean, most processors have noise gates because they are noisy as shit, and when you roll back the volume on the guitar, to get some cool dynamics going, the gate comes in and cuts notes off. I can't accept that! Please respond privately, since this is not really relative to the Ytsejam (at least, not today. :)
"Apathy is the "suckbird" on cynicism's bloated carcass." - Dennis Miller
Chris Ptacek someone@prognosis.com http://www.prognosis.com/madsman Go Home and Practice!
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Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 17:59:25 -0500 (EST) From: Damon Fibraio <damon74@injersey.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3616 Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.96.980306175910.12296A-100000@nj5.injersey.com>
Actually, I was thinking of just an all-keyboard band. Who needs the rest?
-- Damon Fibraio, damon74@injersey.com Keyboards, vocals, musical slut I'll play for money. Enquire if interested. "One likes to believe in the freedom of music, but glittering prizes and endless compromises shatter the illusion of integrity."--Rush, Spirit of Radio, 1980
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Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 18:22:37 -0500 (EST) From: Damon Fibraio <damon74@injersey.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Look, mama! There's an airplane up in the sky.... BOOM! heheheh Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.96.980306182227.12296E-100000@nj5.injersey.com>
You are one sick motherfucker, Korgx3.
-- Damon Fibraio, damon74@injersey.com Keyboards, vocals, musical slut I'll play for money. Enquire if interested. "One likes to believe in the freedom of music, but glittering prizes and endless compromises shatter the illusion of integrity."--Rush, Spirit of Radio, 1980
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 3622 **************************
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