YTSEJAM Digest 3667
Today's Topics:
1) Scarred Records is still here, sorry about that!
by "Ryan Whitaker" <David-Whitaker@worldnet.att.net>
2) Terry Bozzio/Projekct Two
by cluesump@sirius.com (Charoenkwan Luesumphan)
3) Re: Trading CDs
by cluesump@sirius.com (Charoenkwan Luesumphan)
4) long songs
by "Raivo Hool" <raitz@estcard.ee>
5)
by "Sajid Ali Ghafoor" <sajida@paknet1.ptc.pk>
6) Re: Terry Bozzio, etc.
by drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
7) DT promo videos
by Graham Borland <gborland@apsoft.co.uk>
8) Promos for sale
by "Trevor W. Hoit" <TrevorW@ms.kallback.com>
9) Drummers, Rent,and picks...
by Steve Zebrowski <steve@fuzzfactor.com>
10)
by jefffalk@bu.edu (Jeffrey Falk)
11) Questions & info
by Volodya <provibe@club-internet.fr>
12) Re: DT CD next year!! (Trimming Met II)
by alex fraser <fraser@stolaf.edu>
13) Laser's Edge Turnaround Time
by Dan Senko <dwsenko@us.ibm.com>
14) NEVERENDING DREAMS PART 2.1 (Concert reviews on seven German shows, setlists and some extras); LONG!!!
by Choon-Kang Walther <rcwalthe@studi.unizh.ch>
15) Re: LTE gaps..hoof in mouth disease
by WarrenDW <WarrenDW@aol.com>
16) re: Talent/slow guitar
by Pat Sullivan <psull@ici.net>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 13:08:23 -0600
From: "Ryan Whitaker" <David-Whitaker@worldnet.att.net>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Scarred Records is still here, sorry about that!
Message-ID: <004801bd55c5$e639ae20$7ba5410c@dwhit>
Wow, it's been a crazy two weeks. Sorry to everybody who's tried contacting
me lately, an explanation is below. In short, everything's still moving
along perfectly. =)
It started with Spring Break. I was away in Mexico for a week, and then
when I got back I tried dialing in to the Online Superhighway Internet and I
had lost my access. Turns out my credit card payment was late *and* over my
limit, so AT&T couldn't tack on its monthly charge. It took a week for my
check to make it to the credit company and as of late Sunday night I'm
finally back to receive e-mail. Please re-send any e-mail that got
rejected, as well as any receipt confirmations or disc comments you may
have.
I spent most of last week chugging through the stack of orders that have
accumulated, and most orders are shipped.
The Van Halen MP3 compilation disc ("Rat Salade") is shipping, and it's
awesome!
For a more detailed look on everything, the web page should be updated
within a day. Its URL is below.
Take care!
Ryan Whitaker
Scarred Records
http://www.geocities.com/soho/2236
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 23:43:49 -0700
From: cluesump@sirius.com (Charoenkwan Luesumphan)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Terry Bozzio/Projekct Two
Message-ID: <v01540b03b13bb3927dd7@[205.134.227.101]>
Jonathan Case <jcase@ROSSBY.METR.ou.edu> wrote;
>I'm a drummer, and I need to find out more about Bozzio. He's pretty
>incredible on Sex and Religion, but I also don't have any other CDs of
>his. I need to get his project CD he made recently with Tony Levin and
>one other I think.
You better hear "Danger Money" by UK. Bozzio is incredible.
I just got back from the Projekct Two (Robert Fripp/Adrian Belew/Trey Gunn)
shows in San Francisco (March-21-22). I found out another killing
drummer...it was Adrian Belew. He's awesome and this show was excellent (a
half of King Crimson). If you guys have a chance please check them out.
Trey Gunn did not play the chapman stick for the shows. He played the warr
guitar (8-string-touching-guitar) instead.
Take care,
AE
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Prog Maniac" homepage: http://www.sirius.com/~cluesump
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 23:53:55 -0700
From: cluesump@sirius.com (Charoenkwan Luesumphan)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Trading CDs
Message-ID: <v01540b05b13bb60e1384@[205.134.227.101]>
Rogerio Brito <rbrito@ime.usp.br> wrote;
> And here is the list of CDs which I'd like to get. Please
> note that I'm not restricted to these. So, if you want
> anything from my small list, just offer me something and we
> can arrange a trade from that.
>Yes - Fragile, Relayer, Yessongs, 90125
>Kansas - Leftoverture, Point of Know Return
>Jethro Tull - Aqualung
>ELP - Brain Salad Surgery, Trilogy, Tarkus
>Gentle Giant - Octopus, Free Hand, In a Glass House, The Power & the Glory
>Camel - A Live Record, The Snow Goose, Harbor of Tears, Nude, Dust and Dreams
>Univers Zero - Heresie, Ceux (or something like that)
>Ozric Tentacles - Erpland, Live Underlusky
>Rick Wakeman - Six Wives of Henry VIII
>Discipline - Unfolded Like Staircase
>Genesis - Selling England by the Pound
>Rudess & Morgenstein - Rudess & Morgenstein Project
>McLaughlin, de Lucia & Di Meola - Friday Night in San Francisco
Oh boy!! May I say something? I don't think people who listen to Univers
Zero or McLaughlin will trade their cd's. In case you don't know, all cd's
from Cuneiform records (Univers Zero, Present, Doctor Nerve, etc) are
pretty hard to find even in the States. If you want you can order the cd's
from Cuneiform itself.
Regards,
AE
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Prog Maniac" homepage: http://www.sirius.com/~cluesump
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:23:22 +0200
From: "Raivo Hool" <raitz@estcard.ee>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: long songs
Message-ID: <199803230824.KAA11488@cch.estcard.ee>
> From: Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br>
> So, these progressive metal bands are not being that innovative
> when they're doing these 15 or 20 minute songs. Many bands have done that
> in the past (20 years ago, for instance).
I guess it takes more from a musician to create a short, yet intense
song that says it all (when I say short, I mean five minutes, give or
take a couple) than to noodle about something for a half an hour. It's
still "about melody, not how flexible your fingers are".
Raitz
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 13:19:33 +0500
From: "Sajid Ali Ghafoor" <sajida@paknet1.ptc.pk>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Message-ID: <199803231819.NAA03522@paknet2.ptc.pk>
Could anyone tell me where I could order Dream Theater Merchandise from,
via Credit Card Online shopping.
ThanK You
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 02:11:46 -0800
From: drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Terry Bozzio, etc.
Message-ID: <199803231011.CAA17281@gms.gmsnet.com>
On the Eve of Destruction, Jonathan Case said:
>
>musicians. Most of the time it's like Bozzio is in a class by himself or
>something. I'd like to know what the drummers on this list think of Terry
>Bozzio and where (if at all) he fits in with the
>Weckl/Peart/Zonder/Portnoy
I think you pretty much hit it on the nose, Bozzio is in his own space...
Much like the legendary guys are.
>heirarchy of skilled progressive metal drummers, if he can be considered
>progressive. BTW, does he really do four beats at once with each limb
>doing
>separate tempos?
Yes, independancy is really not a focus of his since he has seemed to master
all technical aspects of drumming... He's quite the progressive drummer...
get Bozzio Levin Stevens.
>I'm a drummer, and I need to find out more about Bozzio. He's pretty
>incredible on Sex and Religion, but I also don't have any other CDs of
>his. I need to get his project CD he made recently with Tony Levin and
>one other I think.
Yes, he played on some U.K. too.
-The Doc
-- #$%*#$*@ E-MAIL: drkhoe@gmsnet.com #$%#$#$% _+_+_+_+ Unix, Internet, Intranet Engineering _+_+_+_+ [][][][] Dr. Mosh's Progressive Feast [][][][] #$@#$#@# http://progmetal.gmsnet.com @#$@##@$------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 11:49:59 +0000 (GMT) From: Graham Borland <gborland@apsoft.co.uk> To: YtseJam <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: DT promo videos Message-ID: <Marcel-1.41-0323114959-0b0rZWN@mor.apsoft.co.uk>
I'll try to be diplomatic about this, but does anyone else find DT's promo videos . . . ermmm . . . boring?
After someone's post to the jam last week, I stayed home to watch the rock show on VH1 on Friday night to see the Hollow Years video. Sure enough, it was there, and it was great to see Dream Theater on TV in the UK, but the video was just plain dull. People in cars in New York, and kids playing in an alleyway. To make things worse, it was in dreary black and white.
I can understand that Dream Theater's budget for videos probably isn't terribly high, but surely someone could think of something more original than driving around New York?
The same with the videos for TTT, PMU and Another Day . . . the only memorable thing about TTT is the pulsating heart (very cool), and in PMU it was the Napalm Death t-shirt. Other than these little things, I've never seen anything memorable or particularly original in a DT video. Yes, wearing a Napalm Death t-shirt is original. :-)
I haven't seen the Lie video, so maybe this is the one that had all the visually stunning photography, scenery, coolness, effects, scantily-clad women and general greatness. :-)
This opinion is based on only one viewing (my flatmate strongly objected to me recording it over his favourite episode of Xena: Warrior Princess), so perhaps if I'd been able to watch it again I would have been able to connect it with the lyrics in some meaningful way.
Nevertheless, the music still rocks. :-)
Graham
-- Graham Borland Email : gborland@apsoft.co.uk WWW : http://www.apsoft.co.uk Alternative Publishing Ltd Tel : 0141 418 0881 30 Clyde Place, Glasgow G5 8AQ Fax : 0141 418 0889
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 05:24:55 -0800 From: "Trevor W. Hoit" <TrevorW@ms.kallback.com> To: "'DT'" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Promos for sale Message-ID: <30434A6945ABD1119A3A00A024D1C34124A831@ms.kallback.com>
I scored big at the record show on Sunday. I picked up promos of Lie, PMU, TtT, BMS, two different versions of CiaW,and Metal Sampler (BMS,YNM,PS).
I got two copies each of Lie, BMS, and Metal Sampler which I now offer up for $5 or best higher offer. Lie is just Lie (5:02 edit) but is in a nice, sealed cardboard digipak. BMS has BMS radio edit, BMS LP version, and Audio Bio. No cover, but binocular picture on disc. Metal Sampler has album versions of BMS,YNM, and PS. Big sticker on front, cd is white with black infinity symbol with the two guys inside looking at each other.
Also for sale first come, first served is: Tempest-The Gravel Walk $6 Royal Hunt-Land of Broken Hearts-new, sealed-$10
Trevor
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 08:29:32 -0500 (EST) From: Steve Zebrowski <steve@fuzzfactor.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Drummers, Rent,and picks... Message-ID: <199803231329.IAA00387@fuzzfactor.com>
As far as drummers are concerned, I love Bozzio, but I've never seen him live. The best drum solo I've EVER seen had to be Mike Mangini when he was on tour with the band that was formerly known as Extreme. :) Great drum solo, and he made stuff look so easy. God dammit.
Ptackdfsf;lkj mentioned Rent and the shredder guitarist. For a while, none other than Jon Finn was the pit guitarist for the show. He talks about it in his Guitar mag column.
hey, Bafu, there's no need to fake people out for picks at the Yngwie show: yngwie ditches his pick every thirty seconds! We'll be dodging them all night because our pockets are too full. If you don't catch one at the show, take heart: just go home take off your clothes and shake them out and you're bound to find one or two...dozen.
this post brought to you by the letters NDTC.
Steve Z
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 09:20:03 -0400 From: jefffalk@bu.edu (Jeffrey Falk) To: ytsejam@ax.com Message-ID: <v01540b01b13c0f76b018@[128.197.7.160]>
>>2. John Galt. Who is John Galt? > > >BAH! Thanks alot Bafu, this is actually bugging the shit outta me. I need >a cool, crisp, refreshing York Peppermint Patty now. > >--KorgX3 knows who this is, but can't remeber who. "Who is John Galt?" is from a very bad book by an author who is only read by weirdos like Jeff Falk (and Bafu Vai, I suppose). In all seriousness, the book (_Atlas Shrugged_ by Ayn Rand) is brilliant, and it (or at least its author) was (is?) a significant influence on Neil Peart. The first few lines of "Learning to Live" bear a striking resemblence to a passage from it. (See, there's Dream Theater content.)
Even though nobody reads what I post, I thought I'd remind anyone interested that the Digital Man isn't the only broadcaster on this list (and I'm not referring to Ryan Good, Carlo, etc.). If anyone wants to know what I played this week (or any other week), contact me privately. It included _Van Halen 3_ (in its entirety), as well as a track from _Liquid Tension Experiment_. I won't clutter the list any more than I already have by sending the full list.
Jeff Falk jefffalk@bu.edu
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 15:21:50 +0100 From: Volodya <provibe@club-internet.fr> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Questions & info Message-ID: <33353C7C.1E5BB920@club-internet.fr>
Hello, Jammers! I've got two questions: 1. Has anyone heard Carmine Appice "Guitar Zeus 2" album which was released in 1997 and features Zakk Wylde, Richie Sambora and other great guitarists? 2. What bootlegs in terms of good quality and interesting set-list would you recommend from the "Awake" tour? By the way, in Jart Music you can place a pre-order on the new Richie Kotzen album and new Joe Stump which is called "Rapid Fire Rondo" with two bonus tracks : Big Band Groove and Still I'm Sad. French metal magazines speculate a lot on who will be the new Queensryche guitarist ; their suggestions are : Nuno Bettencourt, Reb Beach, Alex Skolnik, Joe Satriani, Eric Johnson and Steve Vai. They should fix their crystal ball. An interesting note on Queensryche : Geoff Tate co-wrote a song with Jonathan Cain (Journey). Take care. Jacob.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 08:36:58 -0600 (CST) From: alex fraser <fraser@stolaf.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: DT CD next year!! (Trimming Met II) Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980323083552.8951A-100000@lars.acc.stolaf.edu>
> poaching Uncle Velmer's dachtsun pack I think it'd rule. Dachtsun's taste > great with about anything except crayfish and albatross.
I saw a pack of Datsuns this weekend... pissed the hell out of everyone on I-70.
-id.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 09:49:34 -0500 From: Dan Senko <dwsenko@us.ibm.com> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Laser's Edge Turnaround Time Message-ID: <5040200013125502000002L022*@MHS>
I suggest that you always e-mail Laser's Edge and ask about availability/inventory before ordering. I've always gotten a response from Ken within 24 hours and then feel comfortable about the turnaround time (I pay by check).
DF Mo
>> Has anyone else's order from the Laser's Edge taken an ABSURDLY >> long time to get to you?
>I feel your pain. :) The wait for huge CD orders can seem like an >eternity.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 15:31:44 +0100 (CET) From: Choon-Kang Walther <rcwalthe@studi.unizh.ch> To: MakTs <MakTs@compuserve.com>, Subject: NEVERENDING DREAMS PART 2.1 (Concert reviews on seven German shows, setlists and some extras); LONG!!! Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980323134946.29649I-100000@dwarf.studi.unizh.ch>
Hi Jammers,
maybe you'll remember my ND story from December. Here is the follow up on seven shows in Germany.
I'll keep this one shorter (time), including only concert reviews. I'll post the setlists next monday, including all of the exeptions I remember.
Munich (March 10th 1998) ------ Hall:=09Colosseum, part of a former factory-complex where DT already =09played the year before. One floor, capacity about 2000 people. Sound:=09I did concentrate on the show that night, but didn't recognize =09anything particular, which means the general, good sound. Crowd:=09Peaceful, pretty high temperatures though. Extras:=09DT in a good mood, according to the stage acting. James whirling =09around!!! Pictures from the front row; I tapped on my neighbours shoulde= r =09every time I took one and he leaned forward to cover me from the local =09security's view. :) JP seemed amused and made faces. Soundcheck:=09When I walked in in the afternoon at the hall, MP stopped =09=09playing and announced through the microphone: 'I've seen =09=09your pictures!' I didn't realize that he'd spoken to me. =09=09Only after the second time 'I've seen your photographies =09=09on the internet, you took them, didn't you?' I understood. =09=09Not the particular welcome I expected, when I sneaked through =09=09this open door... :))
Mannheim (March 11th) -------- Hall:=09Capitol, a former movie theater. A fan told me 'I've never left this place dissapointed after a concert.' Capacity about 1200, sold out completely. A big balcony, at least 1/3th of the crowd up there! Hot! Stuffed! Extras: Trial of Tears in the set.=20 =09Some fans looked through my folder with about 2500 (from the shows =09in december) pictures of the band in 5 minutes... quick fans! =09A local security approached me after 1/3th of the show cause of my =09camera. I told him, this guy from the sound board said it was okay. =09'Show me.' So we went downstairs and a guy from the crew I knew =09was just leaving this place, so I told him 'tell him, it's okay that I =09take pictures' what he did. 'It worked, didn't it?' He asked me =09after. :)) =09JP played with bare upper body for half of the concert. =09MP carried JP from stage during the solo of Metropolis. =09After the show, Mike came to chat with fans. He took my folder =09onto the bus for closer inspection. I had the WDADU sleeve signed and =09showed it around: Mike 10 years ago. In a review of this show I read: I =09had a folder with pictures dating 10 years back. :)))) Soundcheck:=09Again I walked in, but went out after a while ago, it =09=09didn't feel right to be in there, I mean I felt kinda as a =09=09disturbance.=20 =09=09When I walked in, MP was playing the small drummkitt in =09=09front of the stage and JP hit the big one synchronously. =09=09Than they changed instruments, JM (!) also played the =09=09small kitt while MP picked up the bass. DS on guitar, MP =09=09and DS on alternating on vocals. They jammed several bits =09=09of covers, later MP on drums and 'singing' (sounded=20 =09=09terrible :)))))) the first minutes of 'Crazy Train' by =09=09Ozzy.
D=FCsseldorf (March 13th 1998) ---------- Hall:=09Philippshalle, capacity 8000, some 4500 people present. A =09sports- and concerts hall with seated sides.=20 Crowd:=09Easy, got through to the front during Ytsejam. Lights:=09Because of the size of the hall, every bit was used. =09It looked about like this: -------------------------------------------------------------------------- oo=09=09=09oo=09 oo=09=09 oo=09=09 oo=09=09=09oo oo=09=09 oo oo=09=09=09oo oo =09=09 oo oo=09=09=09oo =09 oo=09=09 oo
=09 s=09=09s=09=09s=09=09s r r r o b r r b o r r r =20 r b b r o b b r b r r b r b b o r b b r =09 s=09=09s=09=09s=09=09s
oo =3D floodlights towards the audience o =3D orange spot r =3D red spot=20 b =3D blue spot=20 s =3D moving lights not included two (?) stroboscopes (Metropolis)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------- =09I particularely liked the lights during the first (changing - =09set 1 or 2)part, during Peruvian Skies, the keyboard solo and =09during Metropolis. Watch out, very accurat, exactly reflecting the =09sound, very impressive also the artificial mist from DS's side. =09One of the busdrivers (Bustrip from the Dutch fanclub) realized =09just in front of a nearby trainbridge, that his bus was too high =20 =09to fit under. So cars had to drive back to let him turn around. =09This happened in midst of a construction site, one way, crossroad. =09It took some time.:)) Sound:=09Good!!! A couple of moments, when James was quite loud. Extras:=09JLB improvised a lot! Towards the end of the set, he seemed to =09have some timing problems.=20 =09Peavy and Spyros of German band Rage were present, as fans! Peavy =09said, he has most of DT's records (all?).=20 =09Jazzy keyboardlayer in Metropolis. =09Good merchandise sales. Aftershow:=09Steffen from the Mirror and Denis (Quote:'spelled with one =09=09n' :) ) from Theater of Dreams were present. =09=09Got my pictures back and passed them on to Steffen.=20 =09=09Talk to MP about tattoos, he also showed us his daughter's =09=09footprint with her name and date of birth (upper back, =09=09left side). =09=09Question: 'Are the others comming out, too?' =09=09MP: 'Well, actually they have to.' =09=09DT got easter-pastry from a fan's mother(!). =09=09I asked JP:'Does your solo possibly sound like Van Halen?' =09=09'Yes. I watched in Japan a Van Halen video and than =09=09deceided that it was about time that I'd write a solo =09=09myself again.'=20
Munster (March 14th 1998) ------- Hall:=09Big hall again and about 60 miles from the former day apart. =09Capacity about 7000, but only some 2500 present. Sound:=09Due to the pretty empty hall: echo, hard to mix. The vocals were =09loud and the bass pretty persistent with little middle range at =20 =09times (keyboards, guitar.)
More will follow soon. Cheers
Choon-Kang
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:14:59 EST From: WarrenDW <WarrenDW@aol.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: LTE gaps..hoof in mouth disease Message-ID: <51e72c00.35167c75@aol.com>
In a message dated 98-03-22 22:45:15 EST, you write:
<< > The ONLY gap I heard was on "3-minute warning" and that's because > they ran out of tape and had to go to Mike's DAT recording to fill > in the missing music. It was their choice to tolerate the small gap > near the end of the song and give us the opportunity to hear the > entire song as recorded....live...instead of a CD with almost 30 > minutes LESS music on it. If you want to E-mail to complain then > send it to Somebody isn't paying attention before flaming again... several people, including this post, have stated that the European version of LTE has been mastered differently, and has full 2 second gaps between every song on the CD, unlike the US version of it, which was mastered differently, has no 2 second gaps, only the the gap b/c of the tape running out. -- >> Guilty as charged....that's what I get for missing several jams...still trying to get my foot out of my mouth. Warren
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 10:59:05 From: Pat Sullivan <psull@ici.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: re: Talent/slow guitar Message-ID: <3.0.5.16.19970323105905.36dfcd5a@mail.ici.net>
>They were quoted as saying something like "We conceive all >these ideas but we never have them realized because of our musical >limitations, but we're doing the best we can."
That's a rather refreshing statement in an age where we're forced to listen to interviews by no-talent bands whinig about how difficult their "creative process" is. I think half the battle to making good music is knowing what you *can't* do.
>You have to respect 'em f >for saying it, but it pisses me off that people will still buy a band's CD >if they know that the music on the CD isn't what the artist wishes could be >on it.
Well, DT probably wanted ACOS to be on _Images and Words_, so does it piss you off that that album turned out so inferior? :)
Still, I don't think *any* album truly lives up to the sounds the musician hears in his head while writing it. Remember, the songs you hear in your head are not limited by talent or the laws of physics. Besides, if I like the music that's on an album, it is of no major concern to me what the artist *wanted* to be on there, just that I like what *did* end up on there.
>I find that when a good guitarist is playing a slower passage, I enjoy it >much more than when a bad guitarists plays it, because I know that they're >playing slow because they want to, not because they have to.
Yeah, that's why Eric Clapton sucks, right? The wimp plays slow because he *has* to.
_____Pat Sullivan_____________________________________________ E-mail: (psull)-(at)-(ici)-(dot)-(net) IRC: DDictator WWW: http://www.just-like.nu/ NP: Removed because Jon Kretchmer said so. ______________________________________________________________
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 3667 **************************
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