YTSEJAM Digest 3846
Today's Topics:
1) sizzlechest
by Thrak75 <Thrak75@aol.com>
2) MT
by Chris Oates <aspect@cats.ucsc.edu>
3) Re: MT
by James Thorpe <mail@jamesthorpe.com>
4) SB/VinylTap/NDTC
by "Trevor W. Hoit" <TrevorW@ms.kallback.com>
5) Here come the side projects
by "Robert O'Doherty" <r.odoherty@mvt.ie>
6) Lars Ulrich article..
by Luke Bateup <slslb@winshop.com.au>
7) Where's the melody? I can't find it?
by Calvin 6S <Calvin6S@aol.com>
8) Check the good news!
by "Jason T. Breitweg" <Jason.Breitweg@desy.de>
9) DTC (mostly)
by Big Swifty <swifty@auburn.net>
10) Re: DT FII tour videos
by graham boyle <icarus@sydney.net>
11) Re: LTE Intro Tape
by "Andrew Moore, IT Adviser" <a.s.moore@anglia.ac.uk>
12) Re: DT FII tour videos
by drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
13) Re: Lars Ulrich article..
by drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
14) what is good music/art
by "Matt Halloran" <imemnok@hurricane.gnt.net>
15) Re: DT FII tour videos
by graham boyle <icarus@sydney.net>
16) How I got into Dream Theater, Kevin misc
by "Raivo Hool" <raitz@estcard.ee>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 02:35:52 EDT
From: Thrak75 <Thrak75@aol.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: sizzlechest
Message-ID: <98730859.355004c9@aol.com>
in response....first i said...
> and you can bet my ears pricked up upon reading the whole songwriting
legailty thread. >interesting. someone can't wait to be sitting in
entertainment law and copyright/literary >property classes in the fall.
then ptacek says: "Wow... are you gonna offer free advice to jammers, as we've
provided
you with years of useless base entertainment?"
HA! i'm going to personally see to it that i give you all the worst advice and
screw you ALL on royalties and such! mwhahahahahahah! i am an instrument of
the mega-labels. you will fear me all. ha!
this won some responses, too:
> and what's the fetish with speed? stop it- there's more to a woman than her
breasts, for >crying out loud.
then: "It started out as a joke, but some people apparently didn't see it as
a joke... some people really think that speed is of ultimate importance. May
the lord have mercy upon their souls. :)"
.......or their tits.
i tell you, the more i listen to the new tori album, the weirder it gets. i'm
digging it, though.
did someone say "grautitous cd's"? here goes...
1) tori amos- from the choirgirl hotel
2) ornette coleman- free jazz
3) the meters- greatest hits.
there. constitutional law final? ahh, fuck con law. i AM the constitution!
************************************************************************
david y. kobayashi
new york law school
thrak75@aol.com
"i bring truth and understanding. i bring wit and wisdom fair- precious gifts
beyond compare." -n. peart
************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 23:37:05 -0700
From: Chris Oates <aspect@cats.ucsc.edu>
To: "Ytsejam (E-mail)" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: MT
Message-ID: <01BD787E.B733F550.aspect@cats.ucsc.edu>
Someone Sed:
>Well, music theory has A MAJOR LIMITATION TO SONG WRITING. I've gone
through
>quite a few Music Theory books - but I have yet to find the chapter on
"How to
>Compose". Music Theory doesn't tell you how to write. It only helps you
>refine what may already be there.
Um ... That's the point? Music theory NEVER WAS and NEVER WILL BE about
what is "right" or "wrong" in music or "how you should do it" -- by
learning how to examine existing songs and by defining a standard
vocabulary of terms, progressions and interactions between the notes, you
(the composer) can understand how to break down something you like and
understand what components of it make it likeable to you. Then, when you
write your own stuff, you can use those components to express your musical
ideas more clearly. The art is still in the composer. Theory is merely a
palette so that you can state in relatively clear terms what their ideas
are.
~Chris
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 00:13:21 -0700
From: James Thorpe <mail@jamesthorpe.com>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: MT
Message-ID: <01bd78be$739f9700$23a4d6d0@internet>
>From Chris:
>when you
>write your own stuff, you can use those components to express your musical
>ideas more clearly. The art is still in the composer. Theory is merely a
>palette so that you can state in relatively clear terms what their ideas
>are.
>
This is how I look at Theory too. Its something there or even
after you wrote something to analyze, 'Oh I happened to write
that in phrygian-dominant'.
I will take a good music ear anyday to theory knowledge.
Its funny because when I started playing guitar I learned a
bunch of exercises on all those instructional video tapes and
it was difficult 'hearing' what I was doing because I wanted to
just shred. When I started keyboards, my whole approach was
just of what I heard. To this day, I tend to 'hear' better writing
with a keyboard than a guitar. Like someone
mentioned about Zappa saying, "If it sounds good.........."
Back to the drawing board.
peace,
--james--
www.jamesthorpe.com
mail@jamesthorpe.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 00:45:26 -0700
From: "Trevor W. Hoit" <TrevorW@ms.kallback.com>
To: "'DT'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: SB/VinylTap/NDTC
Message-ID: <30434A6945ABD1119A3A00A024D1C34124A9BB@ms.kallback.com>
>>> Secondly, I wonder if Spock's Beard have the right to use that
name
>>Interesting question... but perhaps they are referring to Dr. Spock!
>And your point is???? Lisa??? Aren't we talking about exactly the same
thing here, my friend?
Well, Lisa already schooled you about the difference you silly British
git :),
but AFAIK Spock's Beard is actually the name of an actual Star Trek
episode.
I could be wrong. Feel free to school me.
I tried to order the Lie single from Vinyl Tap but they said they had
sold out
but would put me on the waiting list for it. I'm not holding my breath.
Trevor
Thanks to Calvin, Chris, Rocky, Adam and Kevin for making
yesterday's jams so easy to scroll through. :)
"We don't need no stinkin' theory!"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 08:49:04 +0100
From: "Robert O'Doherty" <r.odoherty@mvt.ie>
To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Here come the side projects
Message-ID: <61F3B4EC9D23D11181A0006097AD1D7318281F@skylight.mvt.ie>
I can see the next year or so seeing a shit-load of LTE / Platypus
projects taking place. LTE seems to have lit a fire in nearly every prog
fan and I can see the likes of Shadow Gallery, Lemur Voice and Enchant
(possibly) deciding to have a crack as well. The only thing I would like
to say is that let's not forget that the whole scene is about music, not
technical ability or a test how how many riffs can be squeezed into an 8
minute track. I would welcome a few more projects like LTE but having
listened to the likes of Lemur Voice and Magellen, I would be a little
worried in case the whole creation-of-music side of it would be replaced
by the I could do that mentality.
We'll see what happens,
Rob.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 17:53:44 +1000
From: Luke Bateup <slslb@winshop.com.au>
To: ytsejam <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Lars Ulrich article..
Message-ID: <35501708.1C45@winshop.com.au>
Joseph Bissonnette wrote:
> I hate to have my first post to the list be on the Metallica topic,
> but there seems to be a common misconception in all of these posts
> regarding Load and ReLoad. The assumption seems to be that since
> they've done two albums of this less than sterling material, this is
> their new style forever. Actually Load and Reload are more or less
> one album. They were recorded in the same session, and rather than
> releasing a double album they split it up and released two seperate
> albums. I don't know why, maybe there was more money it for them or
> something. Like the general says in Dr Strangelove, I don't think
> it's quite fair to condemn the whole program because of a single slip
> up.
I'm just wondering how many jammers here got to read Lars Ulrich's
article titled, 'Less Notes, More Attitude' in the Nov '96 issue of
Modern Drummer? It's not really anything thoroughly provoking but it
focuses alot on Metallica's definite change of direction in their music.
Here some excerpts from that article:
Lars says:
"...We're not a mission to bring music to the masses. It's never been
about going out and giving people what they want," he says. "It may
sound very harsh and selfish in print, but the essence of Metallica,
what makes us so pure and honest, is that we do what we want to. We do
Metallica because *we* enjoy doing it and we make music *we* like. Don't
misunderstand - we love our fans to death - and if they like where we're
going and want to ride with us, they're invited to ride with us. But if
we're not doing it for them anymore, if people think Metallica sucks now
or whatever, I have no problem with that. They can go somewhere else
because there are plenty of bands out there to choose from.
"...We were playing hundreds of gigs and playing these ten-minute songs
that were so progressive and so full of these odd times signatures and
really diffucult parts. We'd come back to the dressing room afterward
and start talking about it, and we came to the conclusion that, frankly,
we just weren't having fun playing them. Songs like "And Justice For
All" and "Frayed Ends of Sanity" became nothing more than exercises in
trying to get from one point to the other without screwing up.
"...When we got away, from the touring and had time to examine what we
we're doing, we came to the conclusion that playing all this weird-ass,
challenging stuff had nothing to do with playing music from the heart
and soul. the progressive side of Metallica, and my playing and the role
of the drums - I felt we'd taken that as far as we could and that it was
really time for a sharp turn..."
I'm not trying to defend LU by posting this (I've never really given
much of a shit about Metallica), but anyway - form your own opinion....
Cheerin'
Luke.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 03:59:23 EDT
From: Calvin 6S <Calvin6S@aol.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Where's the melody? I can't find it?
Message-ID: <37f51ce9.3550185c@aol.com>
A quote from the Theory Elitist division of the ytse jam :o)
"Where is the melody in Prodigy and Coolio???"
First - a melody doesn't have to be the vocal line. And even a highly
monotone line can be considered a melody. Is rap highly melodic? Probably
not (haven't heard much of it except at parties, radio, MTV). Is rap highly
cacophonous? Not really.
As far as Prodigy and the like go, I think they are adding something to music.
Sampling sounds (not just lines) and reworking them on the computer can be
highly artistic. I think I can pull something out of just about every type of
music.
In fact, as far as the move from Glam Rock to Metal to Rap to Alternative to
Industrial to Industrial Metal to Ska to whatever is healthy. I think I have
picked up a little from all the movements. Not because I force myself to
incorporate it into my style, but if I hear something I like it just seems to
show up later.
This thread has gone all over the place. It started out with Style moved to
Theory and now onto "what is music?" Hey, I would rather read these posts
than some of the others, so I'm not complaining.
Besides if you really know the value of debate, you realize you will probably
gain something. Maybe if you were on the sidelines you were swayed. Maybe if
you were debating you were swayed. Maybe you weren't swayed but you found a
couple of good points on the other side. Maybe in defending your point you
came to understand why you feel so strongly about it OR realized you didn't
feel as strongly as you thought.
I've pulled out a couple things out of this one.
1) Adam Cook is a decent guy because he admited using the word "rules" may
have been the wrong choice. That takes character.
2) I took Mads Machiavellian quote and applied it to the opposite spectrum.
If I listened to a song and loved it, met the composer and he told me "That
song had absolutely no inspiration. I combined a couple of scales I learned
and meshed them together using the blah blah blah principle, etc.", I'd still
like the song.
I know this is true because I'd be a hypocrite if I argued otherwise. It
happened to me personally. Not theory dictating - but "writing" a song I
didn't really "write". I do a lot of MIDI to compose other instruments. If I
hear a drum line - I want to be able to notate and hear it, so I put the MIDI
representation down to run the drum machine. Well, one time I screwed up the
MIDI channels and the MIDI representing the drums went to the synth. Out came
one of the most original and coolest sounds I had ever heard. It was only the
intro (lots of toms and cymbals and therefore more MIDI notes represented) -
but it inspired me to take it and make it the main theme. Did I write it?
Yes, but not intentionally. And when other people hear I get some good
feedback. I even hear "that is so totally different from your other stuff".
Hey, "I'm just a man of many musical modes". I can lie can't I. I'm only
stealing from myself. :o)
------------------------------
Date: 06 May 1998 10:31:01 +0200
From: "Jason T. Breitweg" <Jason.Breitweg@desy.de>
To: bglist@bigfoot.com, ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Check the good news!
Message-ID: <tkuvhrj3inu.fsf@zargon0.desy.de>
Hi everyone,
For the news on how the new Blind Guardian CD has done in the German
pop (=shit!) charts check out the news section at:
www.blind-guardian.com
Have fun.
Jason
-- Jason T. Breitweg Jason.Breitweg@desy.de http://www-zeus.desy.de/~breitweg ICQ# 7495933------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 03:35:52 -0500 From: Big Swifty <swifty@auburn.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: DTC (mostly) Message-ID: <355020E8.7BC0@auburn.net>
Hell has officially frozen over - I am posting about Dream Theater!
There is a blurb in the June 1998 issue of Guitar magazine that asks "Are the scientific meanderings of today's prog-rock brainiacs still relevant?" The title of this column is "Prog-nosticating." Apparently this guy still has a job. Oh well, here's the part about DT, exactly as it appears in the magazine, with no hyphens left out for the sake of brevity:
Dream Theater - Falling Into Infinity
BIOsphere: Berklee brainiacs Dream Theater enter thier second decade with their phasers set on stun. PROGmatics: John Petrucci's choice Ibanez chops are mightier than Paul Bunyan's, and well in evidence on the commanding axe-keyboard, give-and-take of "Just Let Me Breathe"; culminates with the jaw-dropping, 13-minute, three-part epic suite "Trial of Tears." YESsence: "Starship Troopers" storm "The Gates Of Delirium" to discover "The Revealing Science Of God." PROGnosis: Class leaders with unparalleled lines.
Stupid as fuck, eh? The other albums given the idiot treatment are Bruford Levin's "Upper Extremities," Marillion's "This Strange Engine," and Porcupine Tree's "Signify."
Aune <op777@mail.surffi.net> wrote: > I just bought a RUSH boot, anyone know have it or know stuff about it?
I'm not positive, but it looks like "Run From The Fans," an older KTS release.
Chris Puh-Tassic: I'm dying over here. What is the scale used during the dual guitar/keyboard run in the middle of JLMB?
Take care, Mark Peters swifty@auburn.net
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 18:43:36 +1000 From: graham boyle <icarus@sydney.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: DT FII tour videos Message-ID: <355022B8.8FCFCC2A@sydney.net>
Matej Grginic wrote: > Hello jammers.. > Does anyne know if there are any videotapes recorded > from DT FII tour and available for trading. I`m especially > interested in shows from Pordenone and Munich.
I have on from the 97 European tour (Milano) a two camera mix, audience recording, pretty decent quality, but it is in PAL format. But unfortunately I couldn't possibly copy this without someone on this list calling me lots of nasty names and hurting my fragile feelings, accusing me of being a rip off or a counterfeiting pirate...
yours in bootlegging graham
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 09:51:34 +0100 From: "Andrew Moore, IT Adviser" <a.s.moore@anglia.ac.uk> To: "ytsejam" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: LTE Intro Tape Message-ID: <01bd78cc$2be177e0$4e2d53c2@btc-pc1.abs.anglia.ac.uk>
>I made a tape for a friend with "LIquid Tension Experiment" taking up >all of side 1 and the first 28 min of side 2, leaving me with about 20 >min. I want him to REALLY like this tape so that he gets into Dream >Theater :) My question is... what song would fit best on the remaining 20 >min? I would prefer it would be a DT song but it doesnt have to be. I've >kicked around putting Hells Kitchen and LitS, but i think sticking to >instrumentals would work best..
>Thanks! >-Ponte
If you want to keep it all instrumental, I would recommend La Villa Strangiato from the Working Man Rush tribute CD (I know it's not a DT track but MP is on it!) - I think this would fit really nicely, and it's better than the original version, IMO. (That whole album is fab.) Also I'd put the YtseJam and Eve on there. That's about 20 mins, ish. In fact, I may do that for myself! :)
Andy.
PS. Only about 1151 hours until DT at the Forum! :)
--------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Moore, IT Adviser, Anglia Business School, Anglia Polytechnic University, Cambridge, UK Tel: 01223 363771 ext. 2250/Pager: 04325 256651 http://www.anglia.ac.uk/~asmoore/ ---------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 02:14:43 -0700 From: drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: DT FII tour videos Message-ID: <199805060914.CAA29589@gms.gmsnet.com>
Before proofreading..., graham boyle said: > >I have on from the 97 European tour (Milano) a two camera mix, audience >recording, pretty decent quality, but it is in PAL format. >But unfortunately I couldn't possibly copy this without someone >on this list calling me lots of nasty names and hurting my fragile >feelings, accusing me of being a rip off or a counterfeiting pirate...
YOU, RIP OFF, COUNTERFEITING, PIRATE! When you gonna start offering the audio on CD? :)
-The Doc
-- *#&*@#@*(#@#*@(#!@*#(!@#(&!#(@!*#@((#@$(#@(($@#($(#@$@#($@#(*$@(*$*(#(#(##(#(# computersarefasterthanhumans - devastatetoinnovate - hyperspacialparallelcomp\ drkhoe@gmsnet.com = http://progmetal.gmsnet.com = internetcyberwetwaregamedev+ s*o#o$n@@c*o!m^e)s@@t>h<e@@|d~i+g-i%t%a.l@@<M><E><S><S><I><A><H> gaMECoReTeKN0
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 02:17:33 -0700 From: drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Lars Ulrich article.. Message-ID: <199805060917.CAA29610@gms.gmsnet.com>
Before proofreading..., Luke Bateup said: > <excerpt from Lard Upchuck's article> > > "...We were playing hundreds of gigs and playing these ten-minute songs >that were so progressive and so full of these odd times signatures and >really diffucult parts. We'd come back to the dressing room afterward >and start talking about it, and we came to the conclusion that, frankly, >we just weren't having fun playing them. Songs like "And Justice For >All" and "Frayed Ends of Sanity" became nothing more than exercises in >trying to get from one point to the other without screwing up.
[Translation] "I suck at drumming, and I can't play that shit without fucking it up bad."
You'd think hundreds of gigs was enough practice for the bonehead, but the heroine and crack just kept breaking the lewzer down...
-The Doc
-- *#&*@#@*(#@#*@(#!@*#(!@#(&!#(@!*#@((#@$(#@(($@#($(#@$@#($@#(*$@(*$*(#(#(##(#(# computersarefasterthanhumans - devastatetoinnovate - hyperspacialparallelcomp\ drkhoe@gmsnet.com = http://progmetal.gmsnet.com = internetcyberwetwaregamedev+ s*o#o$n@@c*o!m^e)s@@t>h<e@@|d~i+g-i%t%a.l@@<M><E><S><S><I><A><H> gaMECoReTeKN0
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 04:23:10 -0300 From: "Matt Halloran" <imemnok@hurricane.gnt.net> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: what is good music/art Message-ID: <000601bd78bf$d4dbc060$264431cc@imemnok.gnt.net>
Well after much deliberation I have decided to put my left foot in and shake it all about. I don't like to do this, as I am by nature a very humble person and I try not to elevate myself above the pathetic masses of humanity, but with all this hostility and antagonism going on in the jam these days I have elected to give you all the beneficence of my knowledge. All these raging arguments over people trying to decide what is good and bad in music and art, and whether having a working knowledge of theory is better than not having any knowledge and just following your heart, have emboldened me to make this offer to my fellow jammers. As I am universally renowned as being an expert on all things related to art and music, I make you this proposition. If you hear any music or see any movies or art of any form, e-mail me at imemnok@gnt.net, and ask me whether it is good or not, I will get back to you shortly with my response. If I respond favorably to your submission you can go through the world knowing that you are a fan of great art. However, if I say that what you have sent is bad or of poor quality, you need to take it out and burn it immediately. I was hesitant to make this offer as I am aware of a massive government conspiracy to foist off poor art on the general public, so I am putting myself at incredible personal risk. But for my fellow jammers welfare and piece of mind, I would do anything. If after a few weeks you haven't heard from me, well tell my mother that I love her and not to mourn my passing for to long. And please mention the phrase 'Blind Goose Monkeys' to her, she will know what has happened and take appropriate measures to prepare the spaceship for the voyage home, since after the autopsy the government will find out some things better left unknown. Hopefully the feds won't find out about me so that I can enjoy many more years of spreading my pervasive evil throughout the known world. Sorry got a little off tangent there, anyways just know that you all can rest easier without the weight of making artistic decisions hanging over your head any longer. Now may you rest in peace and put your minds to more worldly matters such as developing an artificial Koala claw can opener.
And here's Jim with the Weather..... Matt Halloran 'Grand Widget of the intergalactic fuzzmonkey consortium'
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 19:26:45 +1000 From: graham boyle <icarus@sydney.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: DT FII tour videos Message-ID: <35502CD5.296117B2@sydney.net>
Dr. Mosh wrote: > YOU, RIP OFF, COUNTERFEITING, PIRATE! When you gonna start offering the audio > on CD? :)
When Mike Bahr is in prison......
yours in shit-stirring graham
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 12:12:45 +0200 From: "Raivo Hool" <raitz@estcard.ee> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: How I got into Dream Theater, Kevin misc Message-ID: <199805060912.MAA10879@xyz.estcard.ee>
]From: "Death Lord" <preston@in-tech.net>
> Anyway, I'm interested to know about how others got into DT.
I went to that store to steal my favorite Blind Melon album (they rule majorly, have you heard them?) and got busted. So the security staff made me sit in that little cage and listen to Pull Me Under - played backwards - two hours in a row. Needless to say, I was immediately hooked and after I got out of prison, I bought everything from the Village People and Dream Theater. I've yet to hear Awake and Fallen Into Finity, but their first album, Live At The Marquee, rules majorly and I think it's a must have for everyone that even remotely likes brit-pop.
]From: Kevin Carmouche <khc@bellsouth.net
> No, I personally think that a close minded person is a person who > refuses to take the effort out to look for quality. The "Anything is > Art" mentality is what continues to tear down our culture.
Yeah, there's an Estonian artist out there, supposedly very talented and all, who travels around the world with a turd in a glass jar and exhibits it as art.
Then again, in such subjective areas as visual art and music (I've seen them overlapped many a time and that was entirely too cool - imagine three amazing musicians tear each other new virtual assholes by playing their hearts out, and all that time an artist just sits there and paints everything that the music inspires him to) - okay, there's too much subjectivity involved so that no one's opinion stands for the truth. I may agree to a point that quality is absolute, but as far as I see, you weren't referring to quality, only stating that you basically like to stick to the "ten ideas a second"-rule.
Oh yeah, what's your culture?
> fame??? Taking other people's hits, ripping off their background, and > rapping over it. You're saying that that's being a musician???
Taking those notes other people played, messing around with them... Okay. What it comes down to is that a good Dream Theater song is a damn lousy rap tune. Vice versa, if you like. Thou shalt not be easily annoyed anyway. The "ignore"-function works well if you know how to use it.
You can't judge anything you don't like and you're not very objective when you try to judge something you adore. Love and hate are blind. If you disagree, read some reviews that are done by people who obviously detest what they're writing about (or are absolutely psyched about their subject).
As for standards and theory, you're missing out on King Crimson. :-)
Raivo Hool NT administrator, Estonian Card Center of Banks
e-mail: raitz@estcard.ee Office: (+372) 6 711 416 GSM: (+372) 51 43 567
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 3846 **************************
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