YTSEJAM digest 3843

From: ytsejam@ax.com
Date: Tue May 05 1998 - 19:53:54 EDT

  • Next message: ytsejam@ax.com: "YTSEJAM digest 3847"

                                YTSEJAM Digest 3843

    Today's Topics:

      1) Music Theory shoved right down your trote, I mean throat
     by Calvin 6S <Calvin6S@aol.com>
      2) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3840
     by "Richard A. Rivera" <rrivera@zoo.uvm.edu>
      3) And your point is...?
     by "CP Parnham" <C.P.Parnham-97@student.lboro.ac.uk>
      4) YTSEJAM digest 3841
     by Matej Grginic <matej@stones.com>
      5) THRaKaTTaK sound clip
     by cluesump@sirius.com (Charoenkwan Luesumphan)
      6) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3842
     by Calvin 6S <Calvin6S@aol.com>
      7) De Plane!
     by someone@enteract.com
      8) Re: irving plaza plea
     by Al Balkiewicz <balkiewi@UMDNJ.EDU>
      9) music theory
     by Thrak75 <Thrak75@aol.com>
     10)
     by jefffalk@bu.edu (Jeffrey Falk)
     11) stewardessess
     by RASI2290@SPLAVA.CC.PLATTSBURGH.EDU
     12) Re: stewardessess
     by Al Balkiewicz <balkiewi@UMDNJ.EDU>
     13) new tori
     by Thrak75 <Thrak75@aol.com>
     14) Look 4 rare DT mp3 recordings
     by "BassicRob" <bassicrob@geocities.com>
     15) Re: Theory 2
     by Ernesto Schnack <e_schnack@yahoo.com>

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:35:26 EDT
    From: Calvin 6S <Calvin6S@aol.com>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Music Theory shoved right down your trote, I mean throat
    Message-ID: <7c4e618b.354f8620@aol.com>

    Okay, one more thought on the whole "Music Theory is the center of every Great
    Musician's life"

    As far as music theory having such a deep impact on your progressive gods
    music writing - rock guitarist in general (including progressive guitarist) do
    one thing that would make purveyors of Classical Music Theory cringe.

    They play Power Chord rhythms (Root-Perfect fifth). Not only do the do the
    dreaded "Parallel fifths" but some even make it more of an atrocity by
    throwing in the "Parallel Octaves". That means that there is parallel motion
    in the harmonic movement between the two voices (root and Perfect fifth). Why
    do Classical Music Theory heads cringe at this idea. Well, one thing that is
    always important in Classical music is to preserve the integrity of the
    individual voices. Parallel Octaves and Parallel Fifths tend to give the root
    note too much dominance and the Parallel Fifth movement makes the Parallel
    Fifth voice take a backseat.

    Well, guess what - even Classical composers "broke" this rule. Some of the
    coolest pieces have Parallel Octaves. Parallel Fifths would be less evident
    however. Modern orchestral composers (whether they are great or not isn't the
    issue) use it almost as much as Rock guys (John Williams - Star Wars comes to
    mind). So the most common move in rock rhythm guitar is very anti-theory. But
    I would hate to see people call for the end of Paralle Fifth movement with
    heavy distorted guitar. It just sounds way too cool.

    But to the people who argued that Music Theory is god, better throw out just
    about any "rock-style" album you have. They are a "mess".

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:44:36 -0400 (EDT)
    From: "Richard A. Rivera" <rrivera@zoo.uvm.edu>
    To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
    Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3840
    Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.96.980505172736.27890E-100000@gnu.uvm.edu>

    On Tue, 5 May 1998 ytsejam@ax.com wrote:
    > As far as my understanding is concerned, you are 100% correct. Later on you
    > hinted you were a drummer. You are very intelligent and well spoken for a
    > drummer :o)

    Thanks, I try :)

      I love that song from White Lion "Wait" solely because the
    > guitar solo is brilliant.

    That is an amazing guitar solo. It's melodic, but it doesn't sound like
    any slouch can just figure it out either.

    > You brought up dividing other rights to favor the non-writing members of the
    > band. To me, if the writing members are driving $100-200K cars and the non-
    > writing members are driving $1K cars - they are either being screwed or lazy.
    > Maybe they shouldn't be in the band. It may even motivate them to write.

     I was just using an extreme example. But even if non-writing members do
    start writing, who's to say that their stuff is any good and will be used
    on albums? Maybe there's a reason they don't write. I would never want a
    song to appear on any album that I'm associated simply to have someone
    represented as a writer when the song itself is lacking. That's not acting
    in the best interest of the band. That's acting in the best interest of
    the individual because the space that song is taking up could be
    filled with something else that might be better. Egos might be bruised,
    but that's life.

    > This is a very cool thread. I think discussing the business side of music is
    > very helpful. I know there are quite a few misconceptions out there. And the
    > business side can be just as varied as the music side.

    Agreed. The music business is sort of a hobby of mine. Anyone wanting to
    make music for a living should definitely know what kind of business
    they're getting into. Even if you don't feel like buying all the music
    business book (though you should), just keep your eyes and ears open to
    what's happening around you. A great example is VH-1's "Behind The Music"
    series. No, they don't go into cross-collateralization, performing rights
    societies, or anything else techinical. But they do tell you what happens
    if you walk into the music business blindly. Learn from their mistakes so
    that in twenty years it won't be you in front of the camera saying, "I
    wish I would have read what I was signing." Okay, end of sermon.

    > > On the origin of the thread, if EVH can share the writing credits to ensure
    > band stability - he is an amazing human.

    How many singers did VH go through last year?

                                    Richie

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 22:57:32 +0100
    From: "CP Parnham" <C.P.Parnham-97@student.lboro.ac.uk>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: And your point is...?
    Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980505225732.00914750@student-mailin.lboro.ac.uk>

    > Secondly, I wonder if Spock's Beard have the right to use that name for
    >their band? Wouldn't there be some kind of copyright laws for the name
    >"Spock"? BTW, this is a serious question here, just in case any of you
    >think I'm taking the piss. I bet "Spock" is a Regd. Trademark of Paramount
    >Pictures and Star Trek.....

    Interesting question... but perhaps they are referring to Dr. Spock!

    :o)

    Lisa Marie

    And your point is???? Lisa??? Aren't we talking about exactly the same
    thing here, my friend?

    Chris Parnham Etc etc etc...

     _________________________________________________________________________
      Please check out my local Rock band STORMWATCH at
    <http://www.vinyltap.co.uk/storm.html>

    When autumn leaves are falling, When twilight's here at last,
    When time seems never ending, When present turns to past,
    When hopes are all we live for, When eyes are closed at night,
    When happiness forever is When dream and day unite.....

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 00:01:56 +0200
    From: Matej Grginic <matej@stones.com>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: YTSEJAM digest 3841
    Message-ID: <354F8C54.2A0BB91E@stones.com>

    Could someone email me digest N`3841 please!!
    thanx heaps!!

    Mat

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:19:12 -0800
    From: cluesump@sirius.com (Charoenkwan Luesumphan)
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: THRaKaTTaK sound clip
    Message-ID: <v01540b00b1754e35257b@[205.134.245.111]>

    Someone asked about the sound clip of THRaKaTTaK by King Crimson .
    They have a clip pf "THRaKaTTaK Part I" in Real Audio format at:

    http://www.discipline.co.uk/tracks/audiolnk/1thrack.ram

    I could make you a tape from this album but you have to wait until I finish
    my final week at school first. It's worth a listen if you like
    improvisation music.

    Regards,
    AE

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    "Prog Maniac" homepage: http://www.sirius.com/~cluesump

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 18:14:56 EDT
    From: Calvin 6S <Calvin6S@aol.com>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3842
    Message-ID: <ab504f92.354f8f62@aol.com>

    Matt joins in the theory debate with:
     
     <<well, if whats in your head is completely messed up, well then...anyway, >>

    Let me finish for you, if what is in my head is completely messed up ... it
    may just be unique enough to be interesting. OR it may be crap. But is is
    valid nevertheless because it is my expression - and that is what music is.

    << I don't think that sticking to music theory and using that instead of what
    you call "emotion" or the stuff in your head is necesarily wrong. If music
    theory is so broad, covering so much, how can it be limiting if music theory
    itself has no limits? >>

    Well, music theory has A MAJOR LIMITATION TO SONG WRITING. I've gone through
    quite a few Music Theory books - but I have yet to find the chapter on "How to
    Compose". Music Theory doesn't tell you how to write. It only helps you
    refine what may already be there.

    << I agree with the statement John made about hearing stuff in your head and
    not being able to play it because your technical ability doesn't support it.
    And let me tell you that gets pretty damn frustrating. I've encountered that
    dillema myself several
     times. It is important to master the skills of your instrument in order to
    fufill your creative desires. >>

    I think we have all felt this frustration. However, "standard notes" are the
    easiest obstacle to overcome as far as being able to physically play it on
    your instrument. I know that just about any combination of notes I can pull
    off with the right amount of practice. However, my frustration stems more
    from "nonstandard sounds". By this I mean sounds that aren't necessarily
    simple notes being produced. This is why I love keyboard players who have
    really messed around with their synth module. My frustration is trying to get
    these "nonstandard sounds" produced. They are in my head and are quite the
    bitch getting them out into the physical world.

    Some of these sounds can be found (similar, not exactly to what I am hearing)
    in such art forms as "Horror Soundtracks" and "Industrial Music". I mean
    damn, we all love our computers. I really want to start playing with sounds
    in that realm. To me that is a whole new level of creativity. I have respect
    for some of the new music coming out that take advantage of the computer. I
    can't believe some of you dismiss this art form as a crutch because they can't
    play real instruments. Well I recall a decade called the '80s where shredders
    were told they used "technique" as a crutch because they didn't have emotion.
    Some did. And some use the computer as a crutch. But don't let that confuse
    you into thinking they all use the computer as a crutch. You didn't like it
    when the "technique" crutch card was played, now you are playing the same
    card.

    Don't let your "elitist" attitude :o) limit your scope of music.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:29:51 +0000
    From: someone@enteract.com
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: De Plane!
    Message-ID: <199805052225.RAA11178@wheat.farm.niu.edu>

    > Okay, here's the scoop: I have a tattoo of the Ytsejam on my shoulder. Mike
    > has one just like it on his arm. DT is coming to my town in a couple of weeks
    > and I'd really like to show it to him. Any ideas on how this could be done?

            Wow! Is it the whole song, or did you wimp out and just get the
    opening riff?
            Seriously though, it should be cakewalk. Just get there early or
    stay late. You're gonna bump into em.

    Go Home and Practice!

    Chris Ptacek
    someone@prognosis.com
    http://www.prognosis.com/madsman

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 18:35:06 -0400 (EDT)
    From: Al Balkiewicz <balkiewi@UMDNJ.EDU>
    To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
    Subject: Re: irving plaza plea
    Message-ID: <Pine.HPP.3.96.980505183248.13254B-100000@njmsa.UMDNJ.EDU>

            I wouldn't consider taking the cab "risking it". I would suggest
            that as the best and quickest, least confusing way to do it.
            Granted it may cost ya between 5 and 10 bucks, but hell it beats
            the furstration , wait, and smell of the subways, especially
            if you don't know which subways to take. Plus, it's not that
            expensive if you're coming along with friends to split the fare.

                                            -Al

    On Tue, 5 May 1998, Deedlit wrote:

    >
    > I'm going to be coming into NYC via train with some friends, but once I
    > get into Grand Central, what should I do? Should I risk a cab, or run
    > around on the subways? I know the MetroNorth Schedule, but I'm not sure
    > about subways or whatever. If someone on this list knows the city well,
    > can you email me suggestions? I'm such a dork...sorry to post this...I've
    > never been a big city person...even Boston is too big and metropolitan for
    > me :}
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Erica
    >
    > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    > Erica Bonomi, ebonomi@skidmore.edu
    > Deedlit or Deedo on irc.dreamt.org 2112
    > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    > http://www.skidmore.edu/~ebonomi/
    > Check here for the mp3 of the week!
    > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    >

    =====================================================================
      b l i n d l a b o r s t h e b l i n d a n d I a m
         u n w i l l i n g t o u n c o v e r m y e y e s
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    balkiewi@njmsa.umdnj.edu OR sigma982@yahoo.com OR theprof@bigfoot.com
    HOMEPAGE:http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Towers/9280/index.html
      

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 18:40:31 EDT
    From: Thrak75 <Thrak75@aol.com>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: music theory
    Message-ID: <1bc12645.354f9560@aol.com>

    >I don't know music rules, because there is no such thing. Nobody knows ALL
    of music >theory because there are varying schools of theory. So I know
    theory, and I know I don't >know all of music theory. So I guess no one can
    break the rules, because no one knows all >the rules. Good RULE. I'd hate to
    live in your musical world. And guess what? I can go off >hitting any string
    on the guitar because it FEELS right and think there is nothing wrong >with
    it. Music theory is there to help you, not limit you. I'm sure there are
    many musicians >we all listen to who don't know music theory but are amazingly
    musical. Music THEORY. >THEORY. THEORY. Get it? Music can stand alone
    without theory. Music THEORY can't >stand along without music. So to say
    Music Theory comes before Music, ROTFLMAO. I am >not saying you should AVOID
    theory. I'm just saying you shouldn't use theory to control >your musical
    ideas. Technique is more important than theory. Technique can limit what
    >you want to play. Lack of knowledge of Music Theory can't. And without
    music in your >head, technique and theory are worthless - unless you want to
    be in a cover band or be a non->writing member. I can't imagine somebody
    wanting to play a musical instrument but not >want to write music.

    my first 3 reactions after reading this were:

    a) did bafu write this?
    b) this guy's just jealous.
    c) he just admitted he partly belongs to yet ANOTHER theory- sounds like a
    john cage follower, if you ask me.

    all in all, my final reaction is probably more relevant- d) whaaaaaaaaatever.
    *yawn*

    and what's the fetish with speed? stop it- there's more to a woman than her
    breasts, for crying out loud.

    and you can bet my ears pricked up upon reading the whole songwriting legailty
    thread. interesting. someone can't wait to be sitting in entertainment law and
    copyright/literary property classes in the fall.

    wild koba

    ************************************************************************
    david y. kobayashi
    new york law school
    thrak75@aol.com

    "i'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints." -on the wall at
    tripwire's
    ************************************************************************
       

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 18:44:29 -0400
    From: jefffalk@bu.edu (Jeffrey Falk)
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Message-ID: <v01540b00b175451f72fe@[128.197.8.25]>

    >I didn't see the post, but if someone said Randy didn't write the
    >music, they are sadly mistaken.
            I said it. And I was not serious, I was replying to a post that
    suggested that in most bands, the lead guitarist does not write most of the
    music.
            I may be many things, but stupid is not one of them. I know damn
    well who wrote most of the music on those early Osbourne albums.
            And since when did anybody take what I post seriously anyway?
            If anyone did, I'd jump on the current bandwagon (pardon the cliche
    and pun) and announce that I'm always looking for a band. I know I
    shouldn't bother though.
            Hopefully I'll see some of you in Philadelphia Saturday night.
    (Don't worry; I'm not definitely going yet.)

    Jeff Falk
    jefffalk@bu.edu

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 18:46:43 -0500 (EST)
    From: RASI2290@SPLAVA.CC.PLATTSBURGH.EDU
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: stewardessess
    Message-ID: <01IWONK5W11U000U9C@SPLAVA.CC.PLATTSBURGH.EDU>

    Date sent: 5-MAY-1998 18:45:16

    Eckie bitched:
    >one handed typing sucks :P

    I didn't know there was any other way.

    ............................................................
    mailto: rasi2290@splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu
    Check out Another Page at www.j51.com/~mrasiel. Hot Diggity!

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 18:58:24 -0400 (EDT)
    From: Al Balkiewicz <balkiewi@UMDNJ.EDU>
    To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
    Subject: Re: stewardessess
    Message-ID: <Pine.HPP.3.96.980505185800.18385A-100000@njmsa.UMDNJ.EDU>

    On Tue, 5 May 1998 RASI2290@SPLAVA.CC.PLATTSBURGH.EDU wrote:

    >
    > Date sent: 5-MAY-1998 18:45:16
    >
    > Eckie bitched:
    > >one handed typing sucks :P
    >
    > I didn't know there was any other way.
    >
    >

                    doesn't it depend on which website you're at?

                                                    :P

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 19:05:32 EDT
    From: Thrak75 <Thrak75@aol.com>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: new tori
    Message-ID: <faf1fc7.354f9b3d@aol.com>

    ........it's pretty interesting. if you dig her other stuff, you oughta check
    this one out, too.

    wild koba

    ************************************************************************
    david y. kobayashi
    new york law school
    thrak75@aol.com

    "it's hard for me to say what's right when all i wanna do is wrong." -prince
    ************************************************************************

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:20:22 -0400
    From: "BassicRob" <bassicrob@geocities.com>
    To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
    Subject: Look 4 rare DT mp3 recordings
    Message-ID: <01bd786b$9cac1900$LocalHost@default>

    This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

    ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BD784A.159A7900
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    Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Hey fellow jammers
    i was curious if anyone can send me links were i can find rare studio or =
    live recorded DT mp3s. i'm mainly interested in the rare studio =
    recordings though.
    thanks.
        -Rob, bassicrob@geocities.com=20
    Visit my webpage for my latest bass solo mp3's, and other useless info.
     http:\\www.geocities.com\SunsetStrip\Mezzanine\1566=20

    PS - Anyone going to see DT at Irving Plaza in nYc on Fri?

    ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BD784A.159A7900
    Content-Type: text/html;
            charset="iso-8859-1"
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
    <HTML>
    <HEAD>

    <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
    http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
    <META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
    </HEAD>
    <BODY bgColor=3D#e0e0ff>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT size=3D3>Hey fellow =
    jammers</FONT></FONT><FONT=20
    size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT size=3D3></FONT></FONT><FONT size=3D3>i =
    was curious=20
    if anyone can send me links were i can find rare studio or live recorded =
    DT=20
    mp3s.&nbsp; i'm mainly interested in the rare studio recordings=20
    though.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D3>thanks.</FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -Rob, <A=20
    href=3D"mailto:bassicrob@geocities.com">bassicrob@geocities.com</A> =
    </DIV>
    <DIV>Visit my webpage for my latest bass solo mp3's, and other useless=20
    info.&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;<A=20
    href=3D"http:\\www.geocities.com\SunsetStrip\Mezzanine\1566">http:\\www.g=
    eocities.com\SunsetStrip\Mezzanine\1566</A>=20
    </DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV>PS - Anyone going to see DT at Irving Plaza in nYc on=20
    Fri?&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 16:38:18 -0700 (PDT)
    From: Ernesto Schnack <e_schnack@yahoo.com>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Re: Theory 2
    Message-ID: <19980505233818.21955.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com>

    First off, for the dude wanting to get Rock Discipline. Just so you
    know there is also a book w/ CD that has the same material PLUS a full
    transcription of Petrucci's little jam...I'm guessing that's the one
    that was spotted for 19.95 at the Berklee bookstore.

    > One of my favorite counter examples to your proposed rule of music
    > above is Arnold Schoenberg, the early 20th century composer. He

    And the really fucked up thing was, that he developed that system
    because he was so conservative he knew music was supposed to evolve...

    Romeo and Ron Thal (who introduced me to the
    > concept of Dodecaphony when I asked "how did you come up with that
    > sick solo line!?").
    >

    Just out of curiosity, in which solo does he use this, or is it a
    common practice of his (something which i wouldnt find odd at all.)
     

    > Further, art is expression for the artist, to be sure, but what is it
    > to the viewer, listener, experiencer, etc? It's Entertainment. It
    > may be deep and profound, but at some level, it is entertainment.
    > Whether you rap well, or shred well, or compose well, you're an
    > entertainer.
    >

    Damn, I should just call you Christopher Zappa :)
    (For the uninformed, that was Zappa's over-all view towards music)

    > And I conclude on this: Never pluck anything that doesn't feel good.
    > :)
    >

    "If its sounds good to you, it's bitchen, if it sounds bad to you, it
    sucks." - FZ

    I just like to add a little something to this discussion: we dont
    even know what the fuck music is, or what it's purpose is. Sure we
    can define it as organized sound or whatever, but we really dont know
    what it is. So tell me, if we dont know what the fuck it is, or what
    the fuck it's for, how on earth can we think there is actually a
    'proper' way to go about writing and performing it?

    just a thought,
    Ernesto
     
    _________________________________________________________
    DO YOU YAHOO!?
    Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

    ------------------------------

    End of YTSEJAM Digest 3843
    **************************



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