YTSEJAM Digest 3843
Today's Topics:
1) Music Theory shoved right down your trote, I mean throat
by Calvin 6S <Calvin6S@aol.com>
2) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3840
by "Richard A. Rivera" <rrivera@zoo.uvm.edu>
3) And your point is...?
by "CP Parnham" <C.P.Parnham-97@student.lboro.ac.uk>
4) YTSEJAM digest 3841
by Matej Grginic <matej@stones.com>
5) THRaKaTTaK sound clip
by cluesump@sirius.com (Charoenkwan Luesumphan)
6) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3842
by Calvin 6S <Calvin6S@aol.com>
7) De Plane!
by someone@enteract.com
8) Re: irving plaza plea
by Al Balkiewicz <balkiewi@UMDNJ.EDU>
9) music theory
by Thrak75 <Thrak75@aol.com>
10)
by jefffalk@bu.edu (Jeffrey Falk)
11) stewardessess
by RASI2290@SPLAVA.CC.PLATTSBURGH.EDU
12) Re: stewardessess
by Al Balkiewicz <balkiewi@UMDNJ.EDU>
13) new tori
by Thrak75 <Thrak75@aol.com>
14) Look 4 rare DT mp3 recordings
by "BassicRob" <bassicrob@geocities.com>
15) Re: Theory 2
by Ernesto Schnack <e_schnack@yahoo.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:35:26 EDT
From: Calvin 6S <Calvin6S@aol.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Music Theory shoved right down your trote, I mean throat
Message-ID: <7c4e618b.354f8620@aol.com>
Okay, one more thought on the whole "Music Theory is the center of every Great
Musician's life"
As far as music theory having such a deep impact on your progressive gods
music writing - rock guitarist in general (including progressive guitarist) do
one thing that would make purveyors of Classical Music Theory cringe.
They play Power Chord rhythms (Root-Perfect fifth). Not only do the do the
dreaded "Parallel fifths" but some even make it more of an atrocity by
throwing in the "Parallel Octaves". That means that there is parallel motion
in the harmonic movement between the two voices (root and Perfect fifth). Why
do Classical Music Theory heads cringe at this idea. Well, one thing that is
always important in Classical music is to preserve the integrity of the
individual voices. Parallel Octaves and Parallel Fifths tend to give the root
note too much dominance and the Parallel Fifth movement makes the Parallel
Fifth voice take a backseat.
Well, guess what - even Classical composers "broke" this rule. Some of the
coolest pieces have Parallel Octaves. Parallel Fifths would be less evident
however. Modern orchestral composers (whether they are great or not isn't the
issue) use it almost as much as Rock guys (John Williams - Star Wars comes to
mind). So the most common move in rock rhythm guitar is very anti-theory. But
I would hate to see people call for the end of Paralle Fifth movement with
heavy distorted guitar. It just sounds way too cool.
But to the people who argued that Music Theory is god, better throw out just
about any "rock-style" album you have. They are a "mess".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:44:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Richard A. Rivera" <rrivera@zoo.uvm.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3840
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.96.980505172736.27890E-100000@gnu.uvm.edu>
On Tue, 5 May 1998 ytsejam@ax.com wrote:
> As far as my understanding is concerned, you are 100% correct. Later on you
> hinted you were a drummer. You are very intelligent and well spoken for a
> drummer :o)
Thanks, I try :)
I love that song from White Lion "Wait" solely because the
> guitar solo is brilliant.
That is an amazing guitar solo. It's melodic, but it doesn't sound like
any slouch can just figure it out either.
> You brought up dividing other rights to favor the non-writing members of the
> band. To me, if the writing members are driving $100-200K cars and the non-
> writing members are driving $1K cars - they are either being screwed or lazy.
> Maybe they shouldn't be in the band. It may even motivate them to write.
I was just using an extreme example. But even if non-writing members do
start writing, who's to say that their stuff is any good and will be used
on albums? Maybe there's a reason they don't write. I would never want a
song to appear on any album that I'm associated simply to have someone
represented as a writer when the song itself is lacking. That's not acting
in the best interest of the band. That's acting in the best interest of
the individual because the space that song is taking up could be
filled with something else that might be better. Egos might be bruised,
but that's life.
> This is a very cool thread. I think discussing the business side of music is
> very helpful. I know there are quite a few misconceptions out there. And the
> business side can be just as varied as the music side.
Agreed. The music business is sort of a hobby of mine. Anyone wanting to
make music for a living should definitely know what kind of business
they're getting into. Even if you don't feel like buying all the music
business book (though you should), just keep your eyes and ears open to
what's happening around you. A great example is VH-1's "Behind The Music"
series. No, they don't go into cross-collateralization, performing rights
societies, or anything else techinical. But they do tell you what happens
if you walk into the music business blindly. Learn from their mistakes so
that in twenty years it won't be you in front of the camera saying, "I
wish I would have read what I was signing." Okay, end of sermon.
> > On the origin of the thread, if EVH can share the writing credits to ensure
> band stability - he is an amazing human.
How many singers did VH go through last year?
Richie
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 22:57:32 +0100
From: "CP Parnham" <C.P.Parnham-97@student.lboro.ac.uk>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: And your point is...?
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980505225732.00914750@student-mailin.lboro.ac.uk>
> Secondly, I wonder if Spock's Beard have the right to use that name for
>their band? Wouldn't there be some kind of copyright laws for the name
>"Spock"? BTW, this is a serious question here, just in case any of you
>think I'm taking the piss. I bet "Spock" is a Regd. Trademark of Paramount
>Pictures and Star Trek.....
Interesting question... but perhaps they are referring to Dr. Spock!
:o)
Lisa Marie
And your point is???? Lisa??? Aren't we talking about exactly the same
thing here, my friend?
Chris Parnham Etc etc etc...
_________________________________________________________________________
Please check out my local Rock band STORMWATCH at
<http://www.vinyltap.co.uk/storm.html>
When autumn leaves are falling, When twilight's here at last,
When time seems never ending, When present turns to past,
When hopes are all we live for, When eyes are closed at night,
When happiness forever is When dream and day unite.....
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 00:01:56 +0200
From: Matej Grginic <matej@stones.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: YTSEJAM digest 3841
Message-ID: <354F8C54.2A0BB91E@stones.com>
Could someone email me digest N`3841 please!!
thanx heaps!!
Mat
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:19:12 -0800
From: cluesump@sirius.com (Charoenkwan Luesumphan)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: THRaKaTTaK sound clip
Message-ID: <v01540b00b1754e35257b@[205.134.245.111]>
Someone asked about the sound clip of THRaKaTTaK by King Crimson .
They have a clip pf "THRaKaTTaK Part I" in Real Audio format at:
http://www.discipline.co.uk/tracks/audiolnk/1thrack.ram
I could make you a tape from this album but you have to wait until I finish
my final week at school first. It's worth a listen if you like
improvisation music.
Regards,
AE
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Prog Maniac" homepage: http://www.sirius.com/~cluesump
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 18:14:56 EDT
From: Calvin 6S <Calvin6S@aol.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3842
Message-ID: <ab504f92.354f8f62@aol.com>
Matt joins in the theory debate with:
<<well, if whats in your head is completely messed up, well then...anyway, >>
Let me finish for you, if what is in my head is completely messed up ... it
may just be unique enough to be interesting. OR it may be crap. But is is
valid nevertheless because it is my expression - and that is what music is.
<< I don't think that sticking to music theory and using that instead of what
you call "emotion" or the stuff in your head is necesarily wrong. If music
theory is so broad, covering so much, how can it be limiting if music theory
itself has no limits? >>
Well, music theory has A MAJOR LIMITATION TO SONG WRITING. I've gone through
quite a few Music Theory books - but I have yet to find the chapter on "How to
Compose". Music Theory doesn't tell you how to write. It only helps you
refine what may already be there.
<< I agree with the statement John made about hearing stuff in your head and
not being able to play it because your technical ability doesn't support it.
And let me tell you that gets pretty damn frustrating. I've encountered that
dillema myself several
times. It is important to master the skills of your instrument in order to
fufill your creative desires. >>
I think we have all felt this frustration. However, "standard notes" are the
easiest obstacle to overcome as far as being able to physically play it on
your instrument. I know that just about any combination of notes I can pull
off with the right amount of practice. However, my frustration stems more
from "nonstandard sounds". By this I mean sounds that aren't necessarily
simple notes being produced. This is why I love keyboard players who have
really messed around with their synth module. My frustration is trying to get
these "nonstandard sounds" produced. They are in my head and are quite the
bitch getting them out into the physical world.
Some of these sounds can be found (similar, not exactly to what I am hearing)
in such art forms as "Horror Soundtracks" and "Industrial Music". I mean
damn, we all love our computers. I really want to start playing with sounds
in that realm. To me that is a whole new level of creativity. I have respect
for some of the new music coming out that take advantage of the computer. I
can't believe some of you dismiss this art form as a crutch because they can't
play real instruments. Well I recall a decade called the '80s where shredders
were told they used "technique" as a crutch because they didn't have emotion.
Some did. And some use the computer as a crutch. But don't let that confuse
you into thinking they all use the computer as a crutch. You didn't like it
when the "technique" crutch card was played, now you are playing the same
card.
Don't let your "elitist" attitude :o) limit your scope of music.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:29:51 +0000
From: someone@enteract.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: De Plane!
Message-ID: <199805052225.RAA11178@wheat.farm.niu.edu>
> Okay, here's the scoop: I have a tattoo of the Ytsejam on my shoulder. Mike
> has one just like it on his arm. DT is coming to my town in a couple of weeks
> and I'd really like to show it to him. Any ideas on how this could be done?
Wow! Is it the whole song, or did you wimp out and just get the
opening riff?
Seriously though, it should be cakewalk. Just get there early or
stay late. You're gonna bump into em.
Go Home and Practice!
Chris Ptacek
someone@prognosis.com
http://www.prognosis.com/madsman
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 18:35:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Al Balkiewicz <balkiewi@UMDNJ.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: irving plaza plea
Message-ID: <Pine.HPP.3.96.980505183248.13254B-100000@njmsa.UMDNJ.EDU>
I wouldn't consider taking the cab "risking it". I would suggest
that as the best and quickest, least confusing way to do it.
Granted it may cost ya between 5 and 10 bucks, but hell it beats
the furstration , wait, and smell of the subways, especially
if you don't know which subways to take. Plus, it's not that
expensive if you're coming along with friends to split the fare.
-Al
On Tue, 5 May 1998, Deedlit wrote:
>
> I'm going to be coming into NYC via train with some friends, but once I
> get into Grand Central, what should I do? Should I risk a cab, or run
> around on the subways? I know the MetroNorth Schedule, but I'm not sure
> about subways or whatever. If someone on this list knows the city well,
> can you email me suggestions? I'm such a dork...sorry to post this...I've
> never been a big city person...even Boston is too big and metropolitan for
> me :}
>
> Thanks,
>
> Erica
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Erica Bonomi, ebonomi@skidmore.edu
> Deedlit or Deedo on irc.dreamt.org 2112
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> http://www.skidmore.edu/~ebonomi/
> Check here for the mp3 of the week!
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
=====================================================================
b l i n d l a b o r s t h e b l i n d a n d I a m
u n w i l l i n g t o u n c o v e r m y e y e s
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
balkiewi@njmsa.umdnj.edu OR sigma982@yahoo.com OR theprof@bigfoot.com
HOMEPAGE:http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Towers/9280/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 18:40:31 EDT
From: Thrak75 <Thrak75@aol.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: music theory
Message-ID: <1bc12645.354f9560@aol.com>
>I don't know music rules, because there is no such thing. Nobody knows ALL
of music >theory because there are varying schools of theory. So I know
theory, and I know I don't >know all of music theory. So I guess no one can
break the rules, because no one knows all >the rules. Good RULE. I'd hate to
live in your musical world. And guess what? I can go off >hitting any string
on the guitar because it FEELS right and think there is nothing wrong >with
it. Music theory is there to help you, not limit you. I'm sure there are
many musicians >we all listen to who don't know music theory but are amazingly
musical. Music THEORY. >THEORY. THEORY. Get it? Music can stand alone
without theory. Music THEORY can't >stand along without music. So to say
Music Theory comes before Music, ROTFLMAO. I am >not saying you should AVOID
theory. I'm just saying you shouldn't use theory to control >your musical
ideas. Technique is more important than theory. Technique can limit what
>you want to play. Lack of knowledge of Music Theory can't. And without
music in your >head, technique and theory are worthless - unless you want to
be in a cover band or be a non->writing member. I can't imagine somebody
wanting to play a musical instrument but not >want to write music.
my first 3 reactions after reading this were:
a) did bafu write this?
b) this guy's just jealous.
c) he just admitted he partly belongs to yet ANOTHER theory- sounds like a
john cage follower, if you ask me.
all in all, my final reaction is probably more relevant- d) whaaaaaaaaatever.
*yawn*
and what's the fetish with speed? stop it- there's more to a woman than her
breasts, for crying out loud.
and you can bet my ears pricked up upon reading the whole songwriting legailty
thread. interesting. someone can't wait to be sitting in entertainment law and
copyright/literary property classes in the fall.
wild koba
************************************************************************
david y. kobayashi
new york law school
thrak75@aol.com
"i'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints." -on the wall at
tripwire's
************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 18:44:29 -0400
From: jefffalk@bu.edu (Jeffrey Falk)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Message-ID: <v01540b00b175451f72fe@[128.197.8.25]>
>I didn't see the post, but if someone said Randy didn't write the
>music, they are sadly mistaken.
I said it. And I was not serious, I was replying to a post that
suggested that in most bands, the lead guitarist does not write most of the
music.
I may be many things, but stupid is not one of them. I know damn
well who wrote most of the music on those early Osbourne albums.
And since when did anybody take what I post seriously anyway?
If anyone did, I'd jump on the current bandwagon (pardon the cliche
and pun) and announce that I'm always looking for a band. I know I
shouldn't bother though.
Hopefully I'll see some of you in Philadelphia Saturday night.
(Don't worry; I'm not definitely going yet.)
Jeff Falk
jefffalk@bu.edu
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 18:46:43 -0500 (EST)
From: RASI2290@SPLAVA.CC.PLATTSBURGH.EDU
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: stewardessess
Message-ID: <01IWONK5W11U000U9C@SPLAVA.CC.PLATTSBURGH.EDU>
Date sent: 5-MAY-1998 18:45:16
Eckie bitched:
>one handed typing sucks :P
I didn't know there was any other way.
............................................................
mailto: rasi2290@splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu
Check out Another Page at www.j51.com/~mrasiel. Hot Diggity!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 18:58:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Al Balkiewicz <balkiewi@UMDNJ.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: stewardessess
Message-ID: <Pine.HPP.3.96.980505185800.18385A-100000@njmsa.UMDNJ.EDU>
On Tue, 5 May 1998 RASI2290@SPLAVA.CC.PLATTSBURGH.EDU wrote:
>
> Date sent: 5-MAY-1998 18:45:16
>
> Eckie bitched:
> >one handed typing sucks :P
>
> I didn't know there was any other way.
>
>
doesn't it depend on which website you're at?
:P
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 19:05:32 EDT
From: Thrak75 <Thrak75@aol.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: new tori
Message-ID: <faf1fc7.354f9b3d@aol.com>
........it's pretty interesting. if you dig her other stuff, you oughta check
this one out, too.
wild koba
************************************************************************
david y. kobayashi
new york law school
thrak75@aol.com
"it's hard for me to say what's right when all i wanna do is wrong." -prince
************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:20:22 -0400
From: "BassicRob" <bassicrob@geocities.com>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Look 4 rare DT mp3 recordings
Message-ID: <01bd786b$9cac1900$LocalHost@default>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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Hey fellow jammers
i was curious if anyone can send me links were i can find rare studio or =
live recorded DT mp3s. i'm mainly interested in the rare studio =
recordings though.
thanks.
-Rob, bassicrob@geocities.com=20
Visit my webpage for my latest bass solo mp3's, and other useless info.
http:\\www.geocities.com\SunsetStrip\Mezzanine\1566=20
PS - Anyone going to see DT at Irving Plaza in nYc on Fri?
------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BD784A.159A7900
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#e0e0ff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT size=3D3>Hey fellow =
jammers</FONT></FONT><FONT=20
size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT size=3D3></FONT></FONT><FONT size=3D3>i =
was curious=20
if anyone can send me links were i can find rare studio or live recorded =
DT=20
mp3s. i'm mainly interested in the rare studio recordings=20
though.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>thanks.</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> -Rob, <A=20
href=3D"mailto:bassicrob@geocities.com">bassicrob@geocities.com</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV>Visit my webpage for my latest bass solo mp3's, and other useless=20
info. </DIV>
<DIV> <A=20
href=3D"http:\\www.geocities.com\SunsetStrip\Mezzanine\1566">http:\\www.g=
eocities.com\SunsetStrip\Mezzanine\1566</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>PS - Anyone going to see DT at Irving Plaza in nYc on=20
Fri? </DIV></BODY></HTML>
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 16:38:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ernesto Schnack <e_schnack@yahoo.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Theory 2
Message-ID: <19980505233818.21955.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com>
First off, for the dude wanting to get Rock Discipline. Just so you
know there is also a book w/ CD that has the same material PLUS a full
transcription of Petrucci's little jam...I'm guessing that's the one
that was spotted for 19.95 at the Berklee bookstore.
> One of my favorite counter examples to your proposed rule of music
> above is Arnold Schoenberg, the early 20th century composer. He
And the really fucked up thing was, that he developed that system
because he was so conservative he knew music was supposed to evolve...
Romeo and Ron Thal (who introduced me to the
> concept of Dodecaphony when I asked "how did you come up with that
> sick solo line!?").
>
Just out of curiosity, in which solo does he use this, or is it a
common practice of his (something which i wouldnt find odd at all.)
> Further, art is expression for the artist, to be sure, but what is it
> to the viewer, listener, experiencer, etc? It's Entertainment. It
> may be deep and profound, but at some level, it is entertainment.
> Whether you rap well, or shred well, or compose well, you're an
> entertainer.
>
Damn, I should just call you Christopher Zappa :)
(For the uninformed, that was Zappa's over-all view towards music)
> And I conclude on this: Never pluck anything that doesn't feel good.
> :)
>
"If its sounds good to you, it's bitchen, if it sounds bad to you, it
sucks." - FZ
I just like to add a little something to this discussion: we dont
even know what the fuck music is, or what it's purpose is. Sure we
can define it as organized sound or whatever, but we really dont know
what it is. So tell me, if we dont know what the fuck it is, or what
the fuck it's for, how on earth can we think there is actually a
'proper' way to go about writing and performing it?
just a thought,
Ernesto
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 3843
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