YTSEJAM Digest 3853
Today's Topics:
1) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3851
by "Richard A. Rivera" <rrivera@zoo.uvm.edu>
2) young Jammers
by Haje Jan Kamps <hajejan@mail.geocities.com>
3) Re: Venues De Milo
by mpm_2112@ix.netcom.com
4) LTE-like projects.
by Stephen Dedalus <mattb@mbay.net>
5) Re: young jammers
by mpm_2112@ix.netcom.com
6) A young 'un
by Jon Kretschmer <jkretsch@sdcc17.ucsd.edu>
7) Music Theory, Vito Bratta
by "Rainer" <rpandean@mail.usyd.edu.au>
8) A few things cleared up, and hopefully resolved
by Kevin Carmouche <khc@bellsouth.net>
9) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3850
by Kevin Carmouche <khc@bellsouth.net>
10) Ripp-Offz
by Uroborosss <Uroborosss@aol.com>
11) Re: How I got into DT
by Kevin Carmouche <khc@bellsouth.net>
12) How I first got into DT
by Chris Calabrese <ccalabr1@ic3.ithaca.edu>
13) more MT
by Chris Oates <aspect@cats.ucsc.edu>
14) DAYTONAAAAAAZZZZZZZ
by Uroborosss <Uroborosss@aol.com>
15) Re: How I first got into DT
by graham boyle <icarus@sydney.net>
16) Happy belated birthday James!
by AL <al@isd.net>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 22:59:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Richard A. Rivera" <rrivera@zoo.uvm.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3851
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.96.980506225655.29888B-100000@gnu.uvm.edu>
On Wed, 6 May 1998 ytsejam@ax.com wrote:
The three of us wound up
> forming the greatest band I've been in.
If only we could have found a decent singer......
Richie
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 22:56:40 -0400
From: Haje Jan Kamps <hajejan@mail.geocities.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: young Jammers
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980506225603.007de720@mail.geocities.com>
>Matt, what can I say...I'm inspired and enthralled all over again. You
>don't know
>how good it is for me, at age 29, to hear of a young musician such as
>yourself already
>getting into the "real goods".
Uuuh.. i am 16.. And I have always been thinking that Dream theater was
commonly liked aong youth?? I know I have "Transformed" at least 6 people
into listening to dream theater (By letting them hear "Burning my Soul" or
"Scarred").. Even tho I haven't been into DT for more then 3 months.
>Too many people your age are being influenced by all the wrong methods into
>worshipping crap. I started listening to Rush (2112) when I was just 11 years
>old, and it helped shape my musical instincts from that point on.
I slightly disagree..
I do agree that I listen to 311, Sublime, etcetc.. Used to anyway.. Now it
is Metallica (please spare the comments), Megadeth (Oh god why am I saying
this), Pantera (Any flame proof vests out there?) Nirvana, the Cure (please
please.. have mercy), Queen, Bush (I feel like I am confessing sins here),
NIN, Rush, and last, but most definitituously not least.. Dream Theater..
Haje Jan Kamps
(oh yea... Dream Theater fan?? Me?? Just look at my sig :)
+---------------------+
| Haje Jan Kamps |
+-------------------+---------------------+
| http://home.sol.no/~lrovers/haje/ |
+-----------------------------------------+
|I'm through just getting by |
|Countless times a friend has told me |
|Watch out for the wave |
|Now it seems the sea will be my grave |
|And still you swim to save me |
|Even though the water is much colder now |
| |
|Dream Theater: Don`t look past me |
+-----------------------------------------+
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 22:48:43 -0500 (CDT)
From: mpm_2112@ix.netcom.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Venues De Milo
Message-ID: <19985623451646334@ix.netcom.com>
>I was bummed cause I couldn't really hear
>JM at
>all. His fingers were all over the place but as hard as I strained I just
>couldn't hear'm.
<snip>
>Did anyone else feel this way?
Yeah, I went to see the same show with my band and my bassist told me afterwards that he could hardly
pick out anything Myung played. He said maybe he wasn't looking low enough (I wouldnt be surprised, I
don't know how John tunes his bass, but the strings on it look really floppy). Oh well, at least they played
trial of Tears...
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 20:52:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Stephen Dedalus <mattb@mbay.net>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: LTE-like projects.
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980506205103.16949A-100000@otter.mbay.net>
Look for a project with Alex Scolnik, or however you spell him, Mike
Manring, and the drummer from Primus. Should be awesome! Wellness.
Matt B
============================================================================
ATTENTION! ATTENTION! ATTENTION!
Guitarist in the Santa Cruz/Monterey area of California seeks
innovative, experimental, technical, and fun-loving musicians to
create works of art and share them with the public. Enquire if
interested.
mattb@mbay.net
=================================================================================
"That is the truth. Not the hammer and sickle; not the stars and stripes;
not the cross; not the sun; not gold; not yin and yang, but the smile...
Because they died, we know we still live. Because a star explodes and a
thousand worlds like ours die, we know this world is. That is the smile,
that what might not be is." (John Fowles, The Magus)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 22:55:35 -0500 (CDT)
From: mpm_2112@ix.netcom.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: young jammers
Message-ID: <199856235215419169@ix.netcom.com>
>I'm assuming that you've already gotten into a little bit of Kansas and
>Queen as
>well at this point?
actually no, I do want to check Kansas out, but I've never thought of Queen as progressive. Anywho, I'm
mostly into King Crimson, Yes, Pink Floyd, Genesis (Gabriel stuff), and of course, Rush and Dream
Theater. I checked out Marillion (finnaly) and they sound pretty good (the guitarist reminds me so much of
Steve Hackett). I also wanted to hear some bands on Magna Carta, so I bought a Cairo CD and a Shadow
Gallery CD. Cairo was awsome, the songs could be cut a little shorter (too much needless rambling) but
other than that, it sound like a "what if Keith Emmerson and Alex Lifeson were in a band together?" I was,
though, dissapointed with Shadow Gallery. They sounded like a very cheap knock-off of Dream Theater
and the singer was way too hammy with the vocals.
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 21:38:29 -0700
From: Jon Kretschmer <jkretsch@sdcc17.ucsd.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: A young 'un
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980506213829.007d2c20@sdcc17.ucsd.edu>
>From: David Hatlee <dhatlee@dhpc.com>
>Matt, what can I say...I'm inspired and enthralled all over again. You
don't know
>how good it is for me, at age 29, to hear of a young musician such as
yourself already
>getting into the "real goods".
>To see a 15 years young man such as yourself getting into bands like Rush
>and Dream Theater gives me new hope that our style of preference will
survive.
Hey Dave, Im 18, and I got into DT at the ripe age of 14.
You may worship me now.
Jon
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 14:58:23 +1000
From: "Rainer" <rpandean@mail.usyd.edu.au>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Music Theory, Vito Bratta
Message-ID: <001d01bd7974$c6c4dec0$7d3a4e81@rpandean.ucc.su.OZ.AU>
Since this topic has come up time and time again I thought I may contribute
something. To me, music theory is just a tool, it is a means to an end. A
song shouldn't be judged only on it's musical merit, it should be judged on
whether it appeals to the listener. I've heard complex music that to me is a
complete load of shite (yes, I meant to spell it that way) and simple music
that I thought was really impressive and appealing. Musicians often get
sidetracked when they're are learning their particular instrument, they get
caught up in technique and forget the essence of music. I don't only want to
communicate with musicians, music is much broader than that. In my
experience the average listener can't relate to 32nd notes and some of them
dare I say it may think of it as a bit of a "wank". Theory is great for
communicating with other musicians, since a lot of people are self taught it
gives musicians a common "platform" to work off. It's also great for getting
down on paper what u hear in your head and sometimes working on theory can
lead to creating music in itself.
In regards to "what is good music", this is a question that cannot be
answered, it is the same as "what is good art". To me, a piece of art
succeeds on an individual basis, it is successful on an individual basis if
one particular observer likes it then it's succesful for this person,
nothing more or less. In the realm of aesthetics, what constitutes good
music cannot be argued in a logical manner. Obviously there are some people
that would argue that record sales are a good indicator of "good music" ie
if there are more people buying this record, more people must like it, hence
it must be good. I don't agree with this as there seem to be certain cycles
and trends in music and record company manipulation has a lot to do with it.
In my opinion, Vitto Bratta is one of the most underrated guitarists on the
planet. He has a great ear for melodies and great technical ability. His
solos are like mini-compositions. The last interview I read was a couple of
years ago, where he said something like that he almost died because he had
infection of the lungs or something like that. If he's truly given up music,
it's a great loss but understandable if it's due to health reasons.
Regards,
Rainer
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 00:09:29 -0500
From: Kevin Carmouche <khc@bellsouth.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: A few things cleared up, and hopefully resolved
Message-ID: <35514209.2871@bellsouth.net>
Alright jammers, I've had enough of the personal attacks, I never meant
for all the bullshit of everyone calling each other names and all that
crap to ever come about. We are all appreciative of music, and that's
all that should matter here.
Perhaps many people think that my definition of Theory is the same old
tired shit that is taught in University classrooms. Well, it's not. I
think, for the most part, that College theory classes are total
bullshit. I've had professors who say there is no harmony in music,
that minor scales are 11 notes, that all popular music of the 20th
centure is pure shit, etc... When I speak of theory, I speak of
knowledge of chords, modes, and rhythms, not counterpoint and and all
that stuff. Now, I know some great music has been created without
knowledge of all this, and most of us like some kind of thing that has
NONE of it...hehe... Take this from an "elitist" as I have so been
called, I think that anyone should be able to do what they feel like in
music, now, if "I" think it's credible or not, that's on me, and has no
effect on you, your friends, your family, or hell, anyone else in the
world. Yes, when you can whistle Dixie through your asshole, it's a
talent, and yes, you're creating something. And let me say this as an
outreach to the rest of the jam, peace, I mean no harm, I just have some
crazy beliefs, I guess that's what being raised by a poor, struggling,
professional jazz clarinetist does to you...haha...
BTW, I saw somebody mention the meters, one of my all time favs(I'm from
New Orleans.) I saw them at the Louisiana Jazz and Heritage Festival,
and they put on a great show. Now, I wonder, when will DT ever play
Jazz Fest?? I mean, if Phish can play here, why can't OFB????
Well, peace out fellas, and let's call it a truce. I'm sorry if i
offended anyone out there.
-- Geaux Tigers!!!! http://www.angelfire.com/la/qryche/index.html "I Know If I Try, I'll Get Where I'm Going/ Keeping My Eyes On the Sky" -"Some People Fly" by Queensryche------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 00:41:12 -0500 From: Kevin Carmouche <khc@bellsouth.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3850 Message-ID: <35514978.7E0C@bellsouth.net>
No, Miles wasn't always the most respected musician in the world. As a trumpeter, he made a lot of mistakes, but he was brilliant at making them work by following his mistake with a brilliant phrase that made everything seem to fit. Miles' greatest talent though was putting great bands together, he ALWAYS surrounded himself with some incredible musicians....And any critic who says he was too sluggish didn't know too much about the "cool school" of jazz....
>No it wasn't always respected artform. A great jazz critic once called >Miles Davis' playing ont he classic album Kind of Blue as "sluggish". Every >genre has critics, but their job is only to give their SUBJECTIVE opinion >on the subject.
-- Geaux Tigers!!!! http://www.angelfire.com/la/qryche/index.html "I Know If I Try, I'll Get Where I'm Going/ Keeping My Eyes On the Sky" -"Some People Fly" by Queensryche
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 01:43:28 EDT From: Uroborosss <Uroborosss@aol.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Ripp-Offz Message-ID: <c84673fd.35514a1f@aol.com>
> From: Pat Sullivan <psull@ici.net> > Subject: re: music "theory" > >> What is Coolio, and most rapper's claim to >> fame??? Taking other people's hits, ripping off their background, and >> rapping over it. You're saying that that's being a musician??? > > Okay, let me get this straight...If a rapper takes someone else's song, > modifies it, and passes it off as his own, it's crap, and he's ripping > people off.
When the original music is playing in the background? Hell yeah. That's about as rip-offy as it gets. > But if a jazz musician takes someone else's song, modifies it, and passes > it off as his own, it's "music", and he's being innovative. > > Is it just me?.....
I'm not sure Pat, but I have a new album in the works that I'd love to tell you all about. It goes like this. First, I play Van Halen's "5150" cd through my stereo. Second, in front of the stereo speakers I have a microphone that will record the "5150" album in its entirety as it is on the disc. Third, I put a solo track over that stuff with me doing all my own licks over Van Halen songs. Basically my album will be two tracks total, so I can do all this stuff in my basement. If rap has taught us anything, it's that my idea will be an instant success in the world of rock music. In fact, you might wanna reserve your copy RIGHT NOW.
Show me the jazz musicians who make a living doing this sort of thing. Puff Daddy breathes it. Class dismissed.
Bafu Vai
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 00:56:25 -0500 From: Kevin Carmouche <khc@bellsouth.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: How I got into DT Message-ID: <35514D09.1479@bellsouth.net>
Well, my DT story goes like this, I got into them my senior year in high school. I was always a Queensryche fan, and one day i saw a guy wearing a try-ryche on a necklace, so i said "cool chain man, that's my fav band!!!" well, we became good friends, and he introduced me to a lot of great bands, one of which was DT...More than any other band I heard, DT caught me the most, I don't know if it was the keyboards, the constructions of the songs, the brilliant rhythmic complexity, or what, but DT changed my whole life and direction in music...
-- Geaux Tigers!!!! http://www.angelfire.com/la/qryche/index.html "I Know If I Try, I'll Get Where I'm Going/ Keeping My Eyes On the Sky" -"Some People Fly" by Queensryche
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 02:24:55 -0400 From: Chris Calabrese <ccalabr1@ic3.ithaca.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: How I first got into DT Message-ID: <355153B6.5AE1505E@ic3.ithaca.edu>
Well, quick story about how I got into DT. Back during the summer of '94, a friend of mine who had gotten me into bands like Thin Lizzy and Quensryche (2 of my favorite bands still) made me 3 wav files....they were the guitar solos for TTT, PMU, and UAGM. I thought they were awesome. At that time I had already been into a lot of old prog rock like Kansas and King Crimson and also a lot of metal, like Iron Maiden and Anthrax. So my friend told me they were sort of a mesh between those 2 genres....so I went out and bought I&W and the rest is history!
~Chris -- Between the iron gates of fate, The seeds of time were sown, And watered by the deeds of those Who know and who are known; Knowledge is a deadly friend When no one sets the rules. The fate of all mankind I see Is in the hands of fools.
- King Crimson
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 23:21:08 -0700 From: Chris Oates <aspect@cats.ucsc.edu> To: "Ytsejam (E-mail)" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: more MT Message-ID: <01BD7945.A75DF960.aspect@cats.ucsc.edu>
Someone else sed:
>Also, if everyone stck to theory.. the realm of music would stagnate.
Untrue, since anyone who really knows theory knows that there are no "rules" in real music theory, and therefore there can be no stagnation since there are no doctrines. What are commonly thought of as "rules" are only the rules of "BASIC" music theory. It's rather like in math when someone says that you cannot take the square root of a negative number. It's true through a lot of math, but once you get into complex numbers, it's fine.
Stagnation only occurs when the composer refuses to go beyond the basics. Like any skill, if you limit yourself to the simplest tools, you can only make the simplest of creations.
~Chris
Who doesn't want to get too much into this, 'cause he has a play to rewrite.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 03:00:58 EDT From: Uroborosss <Uroborosss@aol.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: DAYTONAAAAAAZZZZZZZ Message-ID: <7a49952e.35515c2c@aol.com>
The extra z's are there to make you fall asleep, because I have little to say about this show musically. It was more a circus-type experience than a concert. LaBrie was sporting a new "Satan" look, and held higher notes for longer periods of time than I think I've ever heard before. Sherinian was tucked away in a corner where half of the crowd couldn't see him. Portnoy stopped spewing beer all over the place when LaBrie took a big drink of water and spewed it all over Portnoy's kit, including Portnoy himself. Myung played bass. Petrucci did an acapella guitar solo that included "Flight Of The Bumblebee," "La Tarantella," and LTE's "Paradigm Shift." I wasn't that impressed, I mean ANYONE can play the guitar well. Also included were licks from another unaccompanied solo he did in November of 1990. It might have taken eight years, but sooner or later I knew the bastard was going to repeat himself. ;)
Petrucci was a little too quick to reply with "Gemini? What's Gemini? What's that?" when I asked him about it after the show. A little too eager and challenging, like those operators who call and say, "You're with MCI? Oh yeah? And what's MCI offering you?"
The workforce of the club has changed somewhat. All bartenders are now women with large bustlines and rock-hard abs. If you like women with large bustlines and rock-hard abs, Daytona's is the place for you. Just don't piss 'em off. One guy said something suggestive to this Xena-lookin' bartender and she punched his beer bottle when he went to take a drink. Actually that didn't happen, but I think it would be damn funny if some guy said something lewd, raised his bottle to take a good long swig, and had some angry amazon bartender pound the bottle through his teeth with her fist.
Highest achievements of the evening: getting one of Petrucci's thrown picks and making John Myung laugh out loud.
After meeting Kezcom, I think he and Chris Ptacek would get along just fine in real life. Weird how nice people fight on the Internet.
Scariest moment of the evening: Portnoy displaying his memory. Anyone here ever see that picture I took of Portnoy with his fists up like a boxer? That was taken years ago after the Birch Hill show. Anyway, after the show at Daytona's when Portnoy came out for the meet and greet he was wearing a "Tyson vs. Holyfield" hat. I said to him, camera in hand, "Can I get a 'defend yourself at all times' shot?" He began to raise his fists like a boxer, then stopped and said, "Waaait, didn't you already get this picture?" Unfreakingbelievable.
Now for the mandatory, the long and boring, the STORY!! (It helps if you've seen the first "Indiana Jones" movie and remember the scene where he's running with the idol and that gigantic boulder is rolling after him.) The boys opened with "Just Let Me Breathe." As soon as the music shifted into high gear (when the "intro" blasts off) I felt an unbelievable jolt of force from the person on my left. A very sudden, extremely hard push that almost gave me whiplash. I looked over and saw the person on my left with his back to me, hands in the air, trying to cover his head. Again he was shoved into me by a mysterious force, the source of which I could not yet identify, but what might have been someone driving a car around inside the club ramming people. I looked over to my right to see people, eyes wide in terror, looking over my head at...at something...
As I turned back to my left I saw that the person who was formerly on my left had been replaced with a 5'6" 300-pound (numbers are approximate) man who was bouncing around like Jabba The Pinball against anything he could find. In one hand was a beer bottle, the contents of which were spilling everywhere, including my arm and neck. In his other hand was a lit cigarette which was grazing people's backs and heads, sending glowing embers everywhere. This man had no facial expression. He did not make vocal sounds and appeared to be breathing through his nose despite his thrashings. His feet did not appear to be moving. But his body was shifting around horizontally in all directions at once, arms dangling like a ragdoll. I like ragdolls as much as the next guy, but it's been years since I played with a beer-spraying, fire-erupting ragdoll, so I was uncomfortably out of practice. Plus ragdolls haven't weighed 300 pounds since those Cabbage Patch Deluxe models came out. I felt like garbage getting compacted by a two-ton hammer, burning everything in its path that wasn't already saturated with alcohol.
Within seconds security descended upon this beast of lateral motion. Pinball Man threw his lit cigarette at Security Guard #1, who got hit square in the chest with an explosion of sparks. Security Guard #1 then went into a frenzy of waving his arms around in an attempt to get the ashes off of him, get the cigarette away, accompanied by "zaaa-WAAAUUUUGHENFUCK!!" which I think was German. Security Guards #2 and #3 pounced, struggling to contain Pinball Demon. More beer spilled everywhere. Some small girl got bounced out of the crowd and onto the stage, which made LaBrie so angry he took off a shoe and threw it at Portnoy. Portnoy responded by spewing a wave of beer into the air like a whale. Well not really, but so what...
Guards wrestled with Pinball for a good ten seconds, who still had no facial expression but continued bouncing around inside the newly-formed triangle of security guards in a manner that would have made Sherinian's pelvis jealous. It reminded me of the Saturday Night Live sketch that features the song "What Is Love" by Haddaway. Everyone was watching, horrified and curious all at the same time. Some moron threw a large wrench into the fray just to see it ricochet off Pinball's arm, bust through a ceiling fan, and fly out a window with a loud crash. Little by little the guards, using their superior knowledge of geometry, deflected Pinball away from the crowd and into a large refrigerator crate where he bounced with himself for the remainder of the show.
We all sang happy birthday to James. It was his 21st.
Bafu Vai
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 17:02:28 +1000 From: graham boyle <icarus@sydney.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: How I first got into DT Message-ID: <35515C84.EEE09D97@sydney.net>
Back in 1989, when Kerrang was THE music magazine to read, I picked it up and read a review of WDADU and an interview with Mike Portnoy... So I visited my local import record shop, saw a vinyl copy of WDADU, with a stick that said.. 'Rush/Angel circa 1977', at the time Rush were my faves. So I bought the CD and I haven't looked back. WDADU, despite the later masterpeices that DT have produced remains a personnel favourite of mine and always will....
graham
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 02:35:47 -0500 From: AL <al@isd.net> To: YTSE Jammers <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Happy belated birthday James! Message-ID: <35516453.9B518507@isd.net>
Someone wrote: >What is wrong with you people? Yesterday was Labrie's birthday >and there were no Happy Birthday posts. Portnoy did lead the >crowd in a Happy Birthday. Well if no one else will do it, I will. HAPPY B-DAY James. Now this is a real waste of bandwidth considering James does not read the jam. HEY MIKE, pass the HB wishes along to KJLB, and persuade him to get a damn computer. There, now its been said! Less than one week until my trek from Minnesota to Chicago for the Vic Theater show! My fourth show this tour. -- See ya, AL...
Switchcraft Communications & Microsystems http://www.isd.net/astrosch/index.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Never raise your hands to your kids. It leaves your groin unprotected. - Red Buttons
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 3853 **************************
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