YTSEJAM digest 3851

From: ytsejam@ax.com
Date: Wed May 06 1998 - 20:42:11 EDT

  • Next message: ytsejam@ax.com: "YTSEJAM digest 3855"

                                YTSEJAM Digest 3851

    Today's Topics:

      1) Re: How I got into DT
     by mpm_2112@ix.netcom.com
      2) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3850
     by mpm_2112@ix.netcom.com
      3) Hey everyone
     by EVO V <EVOV@aol.com>
      4) Erica's Song
     by Beyond the Mirror <mail@beyondthemirror.com>
      5) the theory thread
     by The Digital Man <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU>
      6) the whereabouts of Vito
     by Ytsejamer1 <Ytsejamer1@aol.com>
      7) Daytona's sound? Irving Plaza?
     by Ivan Navarro <Ivan.Navarro@noaa.gov>
      8) 12 tone system
     by Calvin 6S <Calvin6S@aol.com>
      9) Stepping out of the theory debate/ Where's my ytse?
     by Calvin 6S <Calvin6S@aol.com>
     10) Re: Megadeth
     by "Ernesto Lotitto" <ernestlot@hotmail.com>
     11) irving plaza #
     by Thrak75 <Thrak75@aol.com>
     12) Time on My Hands Watches
     by cmustard@netdot.com (Mark Lampert)
     13) technicians geek
     by Fabrice Dray <truddy@club-internet.fr>
     14) Malmsteen (NDTC)
     by Marcelo Vanzin <vanzin@geocities.com>
     15) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3844
     by Ernesto Schnack <e_schnack@yahoo.com>

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 15:37:28 -0500 (CDT)
    From: mpm_2112@ix.netcom.com
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Re: How I got into DT
    Message-ID: <199856163324441@ix.netcom.com>

            Unlike many DT fans that I know, I was into the prog stuff first (which may sound weird coming
    from a 15-year-old) and it took maybe 2 or 3 listens through Falling Into Infinity (which was my first DT
    album) to get used to their heaviness (luckily I was also into Rush, so it wasn't THAT hard of an
    adjustment). Since then, I got Awake and I got A Change of Seasons the day I saw DT at Irving Plaza
    (the first time around on this tour). Images and Words I got last. Ever since listening to DT, they have
    replaced Pink Floyd as my favorite band and Petrucci has become my biggest influence and my favorite
    player (his video improved my playing ten fold). Also the fact that around the same time I got FII, my band
    got a new drummer, who just happened to have Dream Theater for his favorite band (we all saw the
    Vanderbuilt show together) so the fact that he liked them led me to listen to them more, I guess.

    By the way, I might be going to the IP show this friday, any jammers going, look for the youngest person
    there!

    Matt

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 15:47:17 -0500 (CDT)
    From: mpm_2112@ix.netcom.com
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3850
    Message-ID: <19985616435846334@ix.netcom.com>

    <<Well, my friend who was in charge of getting our tickets put it off until
    yesterday, and was told it was sold out by TicketBastard. When she
    called the Irving Plaza Box Office, they said there were some left, and
    then updated TicketBastard's info. I got them yesterday at about 12:30
    in the afternoon. I'm not sure if any are left, but your best bet is to
    call Irving Plaza direct. I don't have their number, but it should be in
    the phonebook.
    >>

    There will be scalpers definitely, or at least people on line that have extras.

    Matt

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 16:48:56 EDT
    From: EVO V <EVOV@aol.com>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Hey everyone
    Message-ID: <28dddd19.3550ccb9@aol.com>

    Hi everybody. My names Andy and I'm new to the list. I think I FINALLY
    subscribed the right way. I'll just tell you all a lil bit about me. I'm a
    15/m in NYC, (Staten Island, AKA The Big Dump, or Brooklyn With Trees).
             I've been playing guitar for 8 years, my main influences are Steve
    Vai, John Petrucci, Eric Johnson, Joe Satriani, David Gilmour, Yngwie
    Malmstein, Micheal Wilton, Chris DeGarmo, John Jorgensen, Jerry Cantrell, and
    I think thats it.
        I've been a DT fan for about 2 years or so, starting with I&W. (You guys
    dont know how many times I've hit the delete button for DT and I&W, I made
    sure I read the Drinking Game before I wrote this, so I dont make an ass of
    myself :)
             So enough about me........
    Has there been any talk of a YTSECON3?
    See ya all lata
    Andy D
    The Next Steve Vai

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 15:53:56 -0500
    From: Beyond the Mirror <mail@beyondthemirror.com>
    To: "'YJ Digest'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
    Subject: Erica's Song
    Message-ID: <01BD7907.447CBF40.mail@beyondthemirror.com>

       Erica wrote...
       <I just wrote my first REAL song today...I'm so happy! :}

       Then C# wrote...
       <So is this gonna make MP3 of the day?

       Then Erica wrote...
       <Uhm, no, why would it? It's nothing most people would want to hear....
       I just had to announce it.

    Don't be so shy! You announced it - Let's hear it! :o)

    Josh Becker
    josh@beyondthemirror.com
    http://www.beyondthemirror.com

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 16:56:03 -0400
    From: The Digital Man <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: the theory thread
    Message-ID: <199805062056.QAA05924@daffy.cs.wm.edu>

    There was once a time when I didn't know theory, and didn't think I needed to.
    Who needs to know all that junk as long as you can play the tunes, right?

    The first time I had an improv jam with someone, I realized the error of this.
    I was lost, almost useless, as I just sort of tried the best I could to play
    the root notes and not get lost in the progression.

    Over the years, I read the guitar magazines, learned all the hard Rush stuff I
    could, and in the meantime played an assload of cover tunes with various
    bands. I didn't realize it at the time, but I was learning theory.

    Fast forward to the winter of '96, Burlington, VT, in Richie "The 80s Guy"
    Rivera's basement. He had brought this guy Chuck along to play guitar. As he
    warmed up, I was immediately unimpressed. He had the scales and the speed and
    stuff, but it just didn't seem like my type of music. Nevertheless, we
    started to jam. I suggested a simple 12-bar blues jam, but Chuck had other
    ideas, and ripped into this really cool progression.

    Ack! Minor chords! Minor intervals! What the hell do I do with *this*? OK,
    stop, think. I know minor scales. Play it like so... hey, that second chord
    is just the minor third of the first one... this series of notes fits over
    that chord, because it's got this, this, and this note in it... Ew, that
    didn't sound right. Look at Chuck's hands... oh, *that* one's a major chord,
    so I should be playing from *this* scale...

    We jammed for about twenty or thirty minutes on that tune, playing with it,
    changing it, reforming it. Chuck and I were able to respond to each other
    because we were both speaking a common language. We knew what you "can" and
    "can't" do, in terms of what sounds right, what resolves nicely. That song
    even wound up having an impromptu bridge, just because Chuck and I were on the
    same page, theory-wise. (And, in the meantime, Richie's vast knowledge of
    "drum theory" or whatever you want to call it allowed the three of us to all
    build on each other's parts, having never played together before. We were
    able to sense what was going to happen, and respond accordingly. The
    dynamics, the tempo, everything seemed to just naturally flow out of us.)

    Because I knew theory (more than I had realized), and because Chuck knew
    theory, we were able to communicate musically. The three of us wound up
    forming the greatest band I've been in. My initial impressions of Chuck and
    his playing went right out the window after that jam. After that, as we began
    to write together, we could say shit to each other like "That chord needs a
    minor 3rd in it," or "That scale fits really nicely over that progression,"
    and know why.

    Knowing music theory helped us write some awesome tunes, that we may not have
    written had we not been able to communicate in those terms.

    Your mileage may vary.

      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ "640 K ought to be enough
      cmerlo@cs.wm.edu "@'/ ,. \`@" memory for everyone." -Gates
      d-man@dreamt.org /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed
      http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" -Peart
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            "The Spirit of Radio" Saturday 2:00pm-4:00pm 90.7 WCWM-FM
                        http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo/tsor

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 17:13:59 EDT
    From: Ytsejamer1 <Ytsejamer1@aol.com>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: the whereabouts of Vito
    Message-ID: <b34a50c1.3550d298@aol.com>

    Hello all! Its been awhile since I read a jam from start to finish and i just
    happen to have caught this little thing about Vito Bratta. First...Vito is a
    great musician. Next...he is a putz. I met Mike Tramp about a month ago
    while he was doing a radio promotion tour for his new album, Capricorn. (which
    is really cool, J. Mellencamp style, but still great quality.) Anyways, my
    friend and I were talking with mike for about 20 minutes about music and the
    scene. We asked where the hell Vito was because we all wanted to hear him
    make some more great music, hopefully with Mike. Mike replied that he asked
    Vito to play on the Freak of Nature cd's, but Vito declined for no real
    reason. then Mike again offered a spot to Vito to play on Capricorn, but
    again Vito was like, "nah...I don't feel like playing ...blah blah blah.
    Mike called him up about two months ago and asked him to come out to Tahoe
    where MT lives and write some music. Mike told him that they didn't have to
    get White Lion back together, but just write some good music, like they used
    to. Vito said that he was busy doing other stuff and couldn't get away from
    NY. He also told Mike that he hasn't picked up his guitar for over a month.
    This pissed Mike off something awful, because Vito has the ability to write
    songs and play like a motherf*#ker. To quote Mike, "Vito and I are very
    different people. I like sports and he is totally unathletic. When it comes
    to music, we speak the same language, but its a personal thing...and it bugs
    me... If it wasn't for me picking Vito up for band practice, White Lion would
    have never played a show." So, Vito is just sitting at home, on his ass,
    living with his mother....my god how the mighty have fallen.
    As a postscript, Mike is still hoping to again write with Vito and put out an
    album but he says that Vito has to want it too.
    Take care,
    Tony
    PS...a good white lion webpage (yes there is one!) is www.elvod.co.yu/~milan

    ------------------------------

    Date: 06 May 1998 17:28:29 -0400
    From: Ivan Navarro <Ivan.Navarro@noaa.gov>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Daytona's sound? Irving Plaza?
    Message-ID: <00B1D3550D5FD010*/c=US/admd=ATTMAIL/prmd=GOV+NOAA/o=CCNWS/s=Navarro/g=Ivan/@MHS>

    Just curious for more info from those who were at Daytona's.

    I read one post that the sound sucked, how?

    I was at Vanderbilt's in Plainview NY in Jan and was not impressed with the
    sound. Not that it was bad, just not as good as I had hoped for. I don't think
    it was the hall so much though (it was a good size room). I felt (literally)
    that MP's double-bass drums just dominated the mix. I was mostly in the center
    towards the back of the crowd. I was bummed cause I couldn't really hear JM at
    all. His fingers were all over the place but as hard as I strained I just
    couldn't hear'm.

    Did anyone else feel this way?

    Other than that, guitar, vocals, and especially drums sounded great. Oh yeah, I
    think there was a keyboard player too :)

    I've never been to Irving Plaza, but my friend goes often and says it's a great
    place for concerts. Other opinions???

    I hope so, I want to hear JM this time. Maybe I just need to be there early
    enough so that I can get crushed up against the stage. On second, thought does
    it rain up there? ;)

    I-man

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 17:39:18 EDT
    From: Calvin 6S <Calvin6S@aol.com>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: 12 tone system
    Message-ID: <b34a7734.3550d887@aol.com>

    Adam Cook:
    "The only way you could redifine music would be to build your own musical
    language consisting of a new non-12 tone system. But why the hell would
    anybody want to do that?"

    I believe Steve Vai has a 24 and 16 tone guitar. I know Steve Vai isn't the
    first, but he is probably the most recognizable to this list. I don't listen
    to Steve Vai that often, but I realize he is very talented and extremely
    creative. Sometimes creativity can be very simple. The 7 string guitar.
    Didn't redefine music. Is a simple idea if you really think about it. It did
    however redefine a music scene.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 18:15:01 EDT
    From: Calvin 6S <Calvin6S@aol.com>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Stepping out of the theory debate/ Where's my ytse?
    Message-ID: <38daa5aa.3550e0e6@aol.com>

    Well, this thread has been taken up by so many different people that it has
    become completely distorted. I am starting to see people take quotes so far
    out of context I start to wonder if they just want to argue or if the original
    thought has just been completely raped.

    Original thought - "I'm thinking of going to Berklee/MI? Can someone give me
    some of their experiences with either?" - actually a paraphrase because I
    don't save my ytsejams.

    My response - "I went to MI - this was my experience: Very positive except
    for one bad experience with a teacher."

    The thread begins with an all out war on what is music, theory, technique,
    "feel", etc. I have no problem with the thread except when quotes are taken
    out of context.

    My "bad experience at MI" was as simple as:
    A teacher attacked my style. He didn't attack my knowledge of theory. He
    didn't attack my technique. He did attack my "feel". I found it extremely
    useless of the teacher to attack something that shouldn't be attacked. His
    job was to "grade" me on technique, theory, etc. - NOT my style. If the class
    were a JAZZ class and I played a "Metal Style" piece, he could have. But it
    wasn't.

    As far as the thread - my belief is simple.
    1 - Having music in your head is the most important factor in becoming a
    composer.
    2 - Having the technique to play the music in your head is just as important,
    but not as important. Many composers in the Classical era didn't PLAY their
    music.
    3 - Having knowledge of music theory can expand your understanding of music
    and therefore expand your understanding of your own music.

    Music isn't as simple as 1, 2, 3 - but it is a general guidline I follow. I
    never said technique and music theory were USELESS, except with the disclaimer
    that you don't have music in your head. I even then put a disclaimer to the
    disclaimer and said "unless you want to be a non-writing member or just play
    cover tunes". I then went on to say "I" can't imagine not wanting to play
    music but not create music. I didn't say it was a fact.

    So reading the recent posts is infuriating. Make your points - but don't
    quote me or others incorrectly.

    And with that, I will try not to respond to this thread anymore because it has
    become too polluted. I would much rather hear the origin of the thread
    continued "What have been your experiences with Berklee/MI?"

    On another note, the threads have brought something to my attention. I am not
    getting all the YTSEJAMs. It became obvious when posts had quotes from
    previous posts that I hadn't had the pleasure of reading. I let a couple of
    digests build up and it confirmed my fear. Hopefully I won't miss the all
    important Portnoy420 posts. I'll be very upset if I miss the first JPetrucci
    post.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 15:25:01 PDT
    From: "Ernesto Lotitto" <ernestlot@hotmail.com>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Re: Megadeth
    Message-ID: <19980506222503.26376.qmail@hotmail.com>

    >Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 23:59:52 -0500
    >From: "James C. Shields" <jimbob213@mail.utexas.edu>
    >Subject: Re: Megadeth
    >>Well Jimmy, I think I get your point now. It seems like Megadeth
    should pierce the shit out of their faces and play country and
    >>alternative songs instead of getting better every album...
    >>DAMN YOU'RE RIGHT!!!
    >
    >first off, don't ever call me Jimmy again, or I'll do something
    >really mean and nasty to your dog (like make it listen to Load/ReLoad
    >all the way through)

    I'm sooo sorry! Please, please, please forgive me!!!! It's not my dog's
    fault! I won't call you Jimmy again!!!

    >Did I say they should change like metallica did? NO! but putting
    >out a bunch of the same stuff album after album ain't all that cool,
    >either. I will admit that I didn't give the whole album a real close
    >listen, and I did kinda like the song that got played on the radio,
    >but most of the stuff I heard was real generic. one riff was straigt
    >from kill 'em all (and don't go off about mustaine being in metallica
    >all those years ago, everyone knows that already).
    > now, if megadeth went a different direction (say Fear Factory or
    >even DT-esque), that would have been really cool. I really dig some
    >of megadeth's stuff (although you have to admit that Cyclotron was
    >pretty stupid), but straight-ahead metal isn't much my thing anymore,
    >especially if it sounds regurgitated like what i heard on Cryptic
    >Writings. maybe I was a little harsh since it ain't my thang no
    >more, but I still really get off to kick ass heavy guitar or just
    >plain cool guitar, and I didn't hear much on Cryptic writings.

            Yes, I admit that some of their tunes are stupid (actually, metal isn't
    my thing anymore either, the "heaviest" bands I listen to are Megadeth
    and DT), but I do believe that Megadeth has changed. It's not like they
    are pulling their asses out to play the fastest solos and riffs (check
    out "Rust In Peace"). Instead, their songs are much deeper and with more
    feeling now.
            You really should give it a shot and pay more attention to the music,
    it is worthy.
            That's all for now Jimmy. ;)

    Ernesto

    ______________________________________________________
    Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 18:35:14 EDT
    From: Thrak75 <Thrak75@aol.com>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: irving plaza #
    Message-ID: <1253f76.3550e5a3@aol.com>

    777-6800

    http://www.irvingplaza.com

    all this for someone who's not even bothering to go. all the taunting of the
    folks urging you take a cab, all this silliness.

    koba, wild.

    ************************************************************************
    david y. kobayashi
    new york law school
    thrak75@aol.com

    "it's hard for me to say what's right when all i wanna do is wrong." -prince
    ************************************************************************

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 18:20:23 -0500
    From: cmustard@netdot.com (Mark Lampert)
    To: "Ytsejam" <ytsejam@ax.com>
    Subject: Time on My Hands Watches
    Message-ID: <01bd7945$8b4b15a0$392227d1@cmustard.vonl.com>

    Ahoy,

                Go to http://www.timeonmyhands.com/ and check out the watches!
    There are wristwatches with faces from Rush, Megadeth, Faith No More and a
    several others that you can order. No DT unfortunately, but wouldn't that be
    cool - a watch with a Majesty symbol on the face?

                                                   · • Colonel Mustard • ·

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 02:02:28 +0200
    From: Fabrice Dray <truddy@club-internet.fr>
    To: dream theater <ytsejam@ax.com>
    Subject: technicians geek
    Message-ID: <3550FA14.15B5@club-internet.fr>

    Aren't you fed up of talking of how this one and that one are good
    because they can play their instruments very well.
    Lucky for them they can play, that's their job.
    The main thing people are looking in music are hooks and for that you
    don't need top be super efficient with your instrument, ask Malcolm
    Young!
    Making music for musicians is the stupidest thing ever.
    Mike Varney started a monster and now it got out of hand with all those
    great musicians putting out records of their crap when they should get a
    band together and write real songs.
    I know a lot of people on this list are or were in music schools, but I
    guess the most important thing if you want to live from music is to
    write decent songs people can take pleasure in listening and not
    analyzing why the guitar player did that note at that particular moment
    and not another one.
    If you are considering music as an art, you should also take the
    entertainment value into consideration.
    Who can know what a perfect solo is and who should care as long as you
    enjoy the song it is played on?
    Do you think Dream Theater could have hope to have some success if they
    had only reached the musician crowd?
    There is no wonder why their is only one Joe Satriani enjoying a great
    deal of success with instrumental records: there are no more room for
    another one!!!
    Even Steve Vai doesn't get the success his talent should give him, all
    that because his albums bore the hell out of people who loved him in
    Alcatrazz, Roth, Whitesnake (maybe not?)... Zappa knew how to pen a
    tune even though no-one would argue he was an immense musician.
    I personnaly will go to see G3 in Paris because Michael schenker will be
    there with Gary Barden singing, otherwise...
    Please stop taking music so seriously.
    Fabrice

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 11:36:23 -0300
    From: Marcelo Vanzin <vanzin@geocities.com>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Malmsteen (NDTC)
    Message-ID: <3534C5E7.B03CF@geocities.com>

    Hi all,

            I went to the first Y.J.Malmsteen concert here in Sao Paulo yesterday
    night, and I may have some interesting news for you Malmsteen-maniacs.
            According to Malmsteen himself (and the rest of the band, they were
    very concerned on getting that pretty clear), they were recording a live
    album AND home video yesterday. When (and if) will it see the light of
    day??? I have no idea.
            About the show, for those who are interested, it was about 2h15min
    long, he played LOTS and LOTS of soloes (and that was already starting
    to get me BORED), lots of songs from Facing the Animal, and the obvious
    classics: Rising Force, I'll See the Light Tonight, Black Star... The
    sound was very good, except for the first one or two songs, when the
    guitar sound was very low.
            The concert he made here two years ago was far better than this one,
    although the production in this (obviously because of the recording) was
    better: lots of firewors, better (and sometimes really annoying :-) )
    lighting, better sound...

            Now it's time to wait: Yes on Friday and, maybe, Pantera on next
    Tuesday.

    -- 
    []'s
    /********************************************\
    |              Marcelo Vanzin                |
    |           vanzin@geocities.com             |
    | http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/6308/ |
    \********************************************/
    

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 17:19:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Ernesto Schnack <e_schnack@yahoo.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3844 Message-ID: <19980507001920.10987.rocketmail@send1d.yahoomail.com>

    > He knew that music wasn't a static art form, if that's what you mean. The > above doesn't entirely make sense to me. Schoenberg was something of a > musical revolutionary...

    well, yeah, basically he came up with that system, because he was following the set trend of western music to evolve further. So he did something revolutionary by being conservative...

    > We know it's an art form...and, perhaps, the most abstract of all art > forms. We know it's a medium through which people convey cognitive and > emotive material. We know it from a sonic sense and, anthropologically and > sociologically, we know quite a bit about the roles it plays. Of course, > there's a mystery to music precisely because of its abstractness. But that > doesn't mean that we don't "know" what it is. We SURE know quite a lot > about what it's for.

    Really? We have a lot of theories, but nothing has been proved. How and why did music come about in the first place? What is it's purpose in our society? As etntertainment? as an artform? If so, how does the expression of individuals help society as whole? Why is it that certain sounds make us feel certain ways? Is music some sort of connection to some conciosness we're not aware of yet? etc, etc...

    And there are certain things that we know about sonic > qualities -- a minor second is a dissonant interval, an octave is a > consonant interval. Lydian movement tends to resonate with us differently, > emotionally, than Phrygian movement.

    A minor second is *more* dissonant than and octave. I'm sure you know the whole 'perfect fifth's used to be considered dissonant' schtick.

    Loud staccato sounds get our > attention more fully than soft, gradually swelling and receeding sounds.

    ..depending in what state of mind we're in. There are times when i completely ignore loud music, and the softest little hum will grab my attention.

    All your talking about here scientific data. Yes of course we know music is organized sound. Of course we know we react differently in different ways, but why is it that every time i listen to ;Lines in the Sand', i get chill down my spine, and i get all pumped up with energy? I don't know. If you do, please tell me, beacuse i've been thinking a lot about this lately.

    Every single culture in the world has music...but they all do it differently. Yes there are certain common elements, but the way music is viewed differs greatly between cultures. And evry culture sees another culture's differently. I read somewhere that to Iranians (in the 70's, i dont know about now) all western music sounds the same. Disco, rock, classical. It all sounded similar and lacked variety. With all these outlooks, how do we know there is a proper way to go about it? I sometimes get frustrated of music schools because they teach everything to you as if it were the only way. The never tell you "This is just the way Western Europe looked at music, want to a try another way? "

    ok i have to stop now, i have to study for my art history final...

    Ernesto

    _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

    ------------------------------

    End of YTSEJAM Digest 3851 **************************



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Thu Apr 01 2004 - 18:08:58 EST