YTSEJAM Digest 3917
Today's Topics:
1) Re: moshing <or being an idiot in general>
by Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
2) Re: moshing debate ...
by Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
3) Re: moshing, women, etc
by Eckie <eckie@imap1.asu.edu>
4) Re: moshing <or being an idiot in general>
by belhai <belhai@drew.edu>
5) Moshing, personal space, etc.
by Tom Cox <lexine@rollanet.org>
6) MOSHHHH
by drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
7) Re: moshing <or being an idiot in general>
by Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
8) LA HOB set lists (from the horse's mouth!)
by Portnoy420 <Portnoy420@aol.com>
9) Re: Moshing (NDTC)
by "Lute Lewis" <pbastard@null.net>
10) G3 becomes 4
by "Charlie Farrell" <charlie_farrell@email.msn.com>
11) Moshed Potatoe (Dan Quayle's a dumbass)
by "KorgX3" <korgx3@safelink.net>
12) RE: 7-string stuff...
by "Todd Beachler" <sonicprod@earthlink.net>
13) re: moshing
by Pat Sullivan <psull@ici.net>
14) Re: Tall People
by KEZCOM <KEZCOM@aol.com>
15) Confused hippies
by mpm_2112@ix.netcom.com
16) Re: moshing <or being an idiot in general>
by Alan Estrada Adler <al766074@mail.mty.itesm.mx>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 15:16:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: moshing <or being an idiot in general>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980519151321.1000B-100000@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
On Tue, 19 May 1998 mpm_2112@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>OK, here's an idea. If you guys want to mosh to Dream Theater, here's what you do:
>
>Get a bunch of guys over, put a DT CD in your stereo, turn it up to 11 and start moshing
>AWAY from those who want to look at Dream Theater. If you're not looking at the band on
>stage, then you might as well go home and put the CD on. Thats what a live show is for.
>To SEE them.
So live bootlegs serve no purpose whatsoever, because you can't see thee
band play?
What a revelation! OF COURSE! Why didn't I see that before?!? It's all
clear to me now.
Here's the skinny -- the guy bumping his elbow in your face paid (gasp)
as much money as you did to see the show, and maybe bought a beer while
he was tthere, thus making him *more* important than you. (grin)... Okay,
so maybe that's not entirely true, but he has just as much right to
occupy space in the concert hall and move his body in legal ways during
the concert as you do. It's called freedom. You have every right to turn
around and boot him back if you wish, but know that unless moshing is
prohibited, it's not prohibited. ^_^
>
>Matt
>
--Matt (the other one)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"I stayed up all night playing poker with tarot cards. I got a full
house and four people died." -- Steven Wright
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 15:20:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: moshing debate ...
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980519151941.1000C-100000@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
On Tue, 19 May 1998, Ryan P. Skadberg wrote:
>
>if you wanna continue, take it to private e-mail.
Who the hell do you think *YOU* are, the moderator or... some... thing?
oops...
Well then, go ahead and toos out my last three posts.
And no, I don't read all the posts before responding. If I did, I'd have
nothing to say, and you all would be happy. Can't have that, now, can
we?
>
>Skadz
>Ytsejam Moderator
>
--Matt
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"I stayed up all night playing poker with tarot cards. I got a full
house and four people died." -- Steven Wright
---------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 16:09:15 -0700
From: Eckie <eckie@imap1.asu.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: moshing, women, etc
Message-ID: <3562111B.78EB392E@imap1.asu.edu>
Ryan P. Skadberg suggested:
> Ummm, its not that hard really. Just walk up to the 6' 6" 250+ lb
> drunk dude and say "Cut it the fuck out, this isn't the show for that
> shit" I did it and it worked like a charm. And I'm only 6' 150 lbs
> :) (ask D-Man ("oh shit, he's dead"), Deedlit or Sarah, they all saw
> me do it (while fearing for my life))
Well, if somebody who looked like Jesus approached me at a DT concert
and told me to "Cut it the fuck out," I'd have a hard time flattening
him out like a pancake right on the spot....
>;)
~Eckie Again
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 19:45:42 -0500 (EST)
From: belhai <belhai@drew.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: moshing <or being an idiot in general>
Message-ID: <Pine.PMDF.3.95.980519194415.539224430A-100000@drew.edu>
On Tue, 19 May 1998, Matt Johnston wrote:
> the concert as you do. It's called freedom. You have every right to turn
> around and boot him back if you wish, but know that unless moshing is
> prohibited, it's not prohibited. ^_^
That's why the show at Tradewinds last November was great: because there
was a sign at the entrance whcih said "no moshing."
I'm proud to be both an anti-mosher and an anti-dentite.
Brandon
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 18:48:15 -0500
From: Tom Cox <lexine@rollanet.org>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Moshing, personal space, etc.
Message-ID: <35621A3F.3576@rollanet.org>
Moshing... Don't get into it, never have. I like to watch and listen,
not bounce and bleed, BUT, I have always taken into account that I am
not the only person in the damn concert, either. Some people actually
like it, so try as I may, I CAN'T make them all stop just because my
lame ass wants them to. I recall Metallica concerts I've been to(before
they choked on there own excrement because their heads had become stuck
in their asses), and Danzig(back when I liked them) concerts. And most
people were cool about the moshing thing. When I would get run into, I
would make eye contact with whoever it was, and shake my head, and I
wouldn't be hit again, although I am 6'3" and 200 lbs. with long black
hair with a goatee(sometimes) and have been told I look like a cousin of
Satan, maybe that's why. The only time I have ever had to resort to any
retaliation was at a Danzig concert, where this dude ran into me, and I
grabbed his shoulders to get his attention, and looked at him, shook my
head, and mouthed the word "no." About five minutes later, he came back
and ran into me again. I saw it coming at the last moment, and I could
tell he was doing it purposefully, so I caught him, and broke his nose
with my fist. He DIDN'T come back. But generally, I always thought the
moshers were cool about it. They don't necessarily know that you aren't
into what they are doing, but if you make it clear that you aren't, then
there shouldn't be a big problem. Of course, there is always the Danzig
guy somewhere in the concert, and my advice for dealing with the
assholes of moshing are, either move, retaliate(you have to hurt them,
if you just push 'em, they think you're getting into it), or PUT UP WITH
IT. Everyone should remember that seeing a band live is not like
sitting at home in front of your stereo, the band isn't there for YOU,
they are their for a few hundred different YOU's, so, deal with it. Or
kick ass. Or move. I don't even get in the front row anymore, the
sound is usually mixed for the center of a room anyway, so that's where
I go. The front row always sounds like shit(to me) compared to the
middle of a room.
my couple of pennies,
Tom Cox
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 16:53:27 -0700
From: drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: MOSHHHH
Message-ID: <199805192353.QAA18590@gms.gmsnet.com>
Well... I think moshing is one of the only full contact, resistant, fully
aerobic excercises you can get... and if you have to beat up people, it
can double as martial arts... great sports... great sports...
-The Doc
-- *#&*@#@*(#@#*@(#!@*#(!@#(&!#(@!*#@((#@$(#@(($@#($(#@$@#($@#(*$@(*$*(#(#(##(#(# computersarefasterthanhumans - devastatetoinnovate - hyperspacialparallelcomp\ drkhoe@gmsnet.com = http://progmetal.gmsnet.com = internetcyberwetwaregamedev+ s*o#o$n@@c*o!m^e)s@@t>h<e@@|d~i+g-i%t%a.l@@<M><E><S><S><I><A><H> gaMECoReTeKN0------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 17:06:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: moshing <or being an idiot in general> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980519170606.20041A-100000@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
On Tue, 19 May 1998, belhai wrote:
>I'm proud to be both an anti-mosher and an anti-dentite.
Next you'll be saying they should have their own schools!
> >Brandon >
--Matt (the other one)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- "I stayed up all night playing poker with tarot cards. I got a full house and four people died." -- Steven Wright ---------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 20:29:03 EDT From: Portnoy420 <Portnoy420@aol.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: LA HOB set lists (from the horse's mouth!) Message-ID: <45101236.356223d1@aol.com>
Hey guys, Maybe this post will take your attention away from moshing and put it back on the music!!!! I've not had a chance to read the last month or so's Jams because I have the family out with me, but I did check the last couple of day's & saw a request for the LA House of Blues's set lists. So I figured I'd pass 'em along....
********SPOILERS************
Show #1 - 5/17/98 ACOS 1 & 2 Just Let Me Breathe Burning My Soul Voices Under A Glass Moon Anna Lee (2nd drum set) Hollow Years (2nd drum set) (keyboard solo) Lines in The Sand Caught in A Web (drum solo w/ audience participation, Reign In Blood & Melody Portnoy) Peruvian Skies (w/ Have a Cigar & Enter Sandman) (guitar solo w/ Paradigm Shift, My Way & Flight of the Bumblebee) Pull Me Under Trial of Tears encore: (medley) Metropolis Pt.1 Learning To Live ACOS 7
This show was broadcast live on the internet through "Liveconcerts.com" as well as live interviews before the show.... you may be able to still pull them up....
Show #2 - 5/18/98 Lines In The Sand Burning My Soul Take The Time (w/ Freebird, Hot For Teacher, Moby Dick & YYZ) Anna Lee (2nd drum kit) Speak To Me (2nd drum kit) (keyboard solo) A Crack in The Mirror Puppies on Acid (The Mirror) Just Let Me Breathe Lie Peruvian Skies (w/ Have A Cigar & Enter Sandman) (guitar solo w/ Paradigm Shift, It's a Small World & Flight of the Bumblebee) Pull Me Under (w/ Ray Alder of Fates Warning) Scarred ACOS 4 Ytse Jam (drum solo w/ Audience Participation & Reign in Blood) New Millennium encore: Perfect Strangers, The Trooper & bits of The Prisoner, Where Eagles Dare, Run To The Hills & Killers (w/ Bruce Dickinson of Iron Maiden) (medley) Metropolis Pt.1 Learning To Live ACOS 7
I have to say that this 2nd show goes down in the Dream Theater history books as one of the coolest of ALL TIME!!! The good news for everybody...... The entire show was recorded by Westwood One for a possible radio broadcast sometime in the future!! So you all may be in for a treat!!
That's all!! Thanks to everybody who has made this tour alot of fun.. Thanks for all the GREAT banners I've gotten... & I'll see all of you Arizona & Texas fans this week!
Carpe Diem, Mike Portnoy
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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 20:43:57 -0400 From: "Lute Lewis" <pbastard@null.net> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Moshing (NDTC) Message-ID: <000801bd8388$61508620$0100a8c0@prong.teampoverty.com>
Someguy drove 2000 miles the other day to a railroad crossing and sat down in the middle of the tracks. He said to himself, "This is my spot, my personal space, I was here first, no one has the right to move me and I'm not moving." Several hours later a train came by and dismembered the dumb bastard. So to all the people who feel they shouldn't have to move for a mosh pit, DON"T. I doubt the moshers will ask you politely anyway :). I enjoy both moshing and not moshing. If I'm not moshing I don't stand in the dead fucking center of the the front and get pissed when people run into me. I also don't stand in the corner whining, "But I wanted to be in the middle, it's not fair. MOM!!!!!!!!". Moshing is a part of metal concerts, deal with it.
Prong Bastard pbastard@null.net
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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 01:55:03 -0000 From: "Charlie Farrell" <charlie_farrell@email.msn.com> To: "Ytsejam list" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: G3 becomes 4 Message-ID: <0ee4c4811011458UPIMSSMTPUSR02@email.msn.com>
Any other UK jammers at the G3 gig at Wembley? There were a few DT FII tour shirts in evidence and even a girl wearing a DT Brazil 97 tourshirt.
Anyway the gig was pretty good, although the attendance was poor - only about 1/4 of the venue (capacity 10000) was full. Uli John Roth was on stage promptly at 7:30 to play some widdly nonsense while I went to the bar, then Michael Schenker played a selection of his greatest hits without every managing to remind me why I thought he was such a great guitarist 20 years ago. But Satch and the guys were on fire!
They played a blistering selection of about 12 tunes mainly from Crystal Planet and the Extreemist, and Stu Hamm amazed (as ever) with his bass solo, before the G3 section began. Uli John Roth and Schenker came back on stage, except that this time there was a 4th Guitarist (who probably received the biggest cheer of the evening) Brian May! With 3 sets to fit in and an 11pm curfew (since Wembley is a residential area), there was only time for them to play two numbers - a B.B. King number where all 4 guitarists got a chance to shine and Voodoo Chile(Child) where unfortunately Uli John took the limelight. All too short! I could have listened to Satch all night.
Charlie
Work: http://www.servemode.co.uk/ email: charlie@servemode.co.uk URL: http://www.servemode.co.uk/Charlie
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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 19:18:43 -0600 From: "KorgX3" <korgx3@safelink.net> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Moshed Potatoe (Dan Quayle's a dumbass) Message-ID: <01bd838d$3a9347c0$230d84d0@korgx3>
>"moshing". If you don't like my elbow collapsing you larynx, then don't >assault me in a way that begs retaliation.
But then you would be, in a sense, moshing back, doing exactly what you don't want them to be doing. Go plant some daisies on center stage or something while you're at it you wussy. :)
As for moshing. There are points to where it's called for and points it's not When some short bald skinhead wannabe little prick is running all over nonchalantly bowling over petite wayfaring maidens, I start getting pissed. Even if I'm in the mosh pit. That's about the time I try to charge him over with 250+ pounds of raw, merciless Chuck and he dodges so I bouncing off of some 600 pound roadie and land on my pride. I guess I should be more chivalrous and help the fair damsels up rather than take bloody vengeance. Damn, I need a 1/2 pound Nacho burger now...
>>Cool! Only make mine a Z1 :) >Gift. Horse. Mouth.
LOL! Don't be sweatin' it, foo'. Last I peeped, da Trin's was mo' flow den da Z's, yo. Personally, I hate ebonics, but isn't it fun to listen to?
>drunk dude and say "Cut it the fuck out, this isn't the show for that >shit" I did it and it worked like a charm. And I'm only 6' 150 lbs
Yah, but last I saw, Skadz, you are the Son of God (or at least bear striking resemblance). I think I'd stop, too. =)
>a space in front of a 5'1" person. I am 5'9" and I usually will let >smaller people in front of me - cus I dont want to RUIN THEIR SHOW!!!!
Well, you're just a nice guy now. :) In my world, I come first, and unless I know the person, I'm not moving from the front unless someone actually defies laws of gravity and hurls me over the rail. (Or if I have to pee). I can tolerate about anything in concerts except for crowd-surfers. They are the worst. Nothing like kicking it in the crowd when, *Thwpt, blue stars* some guys Doc Martin is pressed into your ear. Those kind of people are what my friend Tom's for. No one floats over him or he pulls them to the floor and stomps on them. It's a nice tactic, people avoid him.
Ain't concerts grand? --KorgX3
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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 21:45:02 -0400 From: "Todd Beachler" <sonicprod@earthlink.net> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: RE: 7-string stuff... Message-ID: <000001bd8390$e8329400$04ab1e26@harmony>
> I love the 7-strings, but I don't have one-YET. I plan on buying > one for my > next guitar, its that or a JPM.
Check into the Rg-7620 before the UV's. The Rg 7 is just as good, it just doesn't have that pyramid shit all over it. My RG 7 plays great. I've had it for three weeks and haven't picked up my Ibanez Jem since and I thought that the Jem was a great guitar (it still is BTW).
> Andy D > The Next Steve Vai
Ha! I don't believe that for a minute!
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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 22:15:30 -0400 From: Pat Sullivan <psull@ici.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: re: moshing Message-ID: <35623CC2.A96F8056@ici.net>
> I find it hard to get into a show when I am > not standing. Are teh Canadians bad because they ruined the show for > me (I am not kidding.. I was hardly into the music because I was > sitting down).
I'm in the camp of people who think moshing at DT shows is inane, but I cope with it by not even bothering to get up close. I'll usually stand about 8-10 rows back and off to one side (or back by the soundboard). The easiest way to deal with it is to just let it slide. All you people that are talking trash about what you would do if somebody moshed into you? Come on - it's not worth the aggravation.
I've been at both extremes. When I saw Fates Warning, the crowd was very subdued - exactly what I thought a prog crowd should be like. You could tell they we into the music, but they were *listening* to it. It was almost as if the whole crowd was in a trance - a very neat vibe.
At the other extreme, I got caught in a pit by accident at a Megadeth club show a few years back. I thought the show was over, and I was scamming the area in front of the stage for picks, when Mustaine came back out. He started talking, I forgot where I was, the rest of the band ran out and started playing, and the pit formed with me right in the middle. Whoops. It was probably the most "civil" pit I've ever been in though. I got knocked over almost immediately, and helped right back up by two people.
-- _____Pat Sullivan_____________________________________ E-Mail: psull@ici.net WWW: http://www.just-like.nu IRC: DDictator ICQ: 2049374 ______________________________________________________ Join the YCSRF today!
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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 22:16:55 EDT From: KEZCOM <KEZCOM@aol.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Tall People Message-ID: <14c54678.35623d18@aol.com>
In a message dated 98-05-19 16:42:08 EDT, Mr. Pontrelli wrote:
<< IMHO if you are taller than someone.. let them in front of you. Then EVERYONE can see the show. And if someone leaves for a second.. GIVE THEIR SPOT BACK. Curtesy. >>
Oh, sure, and in a moment, I'm back to the back of the club. Sorry.
I love you guys, Kez
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Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 21:44:26 -0500 (CDT) From: mpm_2112@ix.netcom.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Confused hippies Message-ID: <199851922394636334@ix.netcom.com>
<<Annnyways, one of the bands there (a jazz-influenced band called the African Kings) started going off on this mad riff, something very odd -- all the hippies doing their little hippie-strut (if you've *ever* been to a Dead/Phish/DMB concert, or any folk festival, you know the one I'm talking about because it's all the same) got confused and stopped dancing... beautiful sight to see -- confused hippies.>>
I know it all to well. I used to like Phish...until I saw them live. MSG reeked of pot the minute I walked through the door. And its so very funny how the hippie mentality works. They were trying to get tickets by trading those hippie necklaces (you know what I'm talking about) those dirty looking ones with the fake stones in them. The lights went down and all they did was dance. These two guys obviously stoned, were complaining for us to move over so they could dance. We would have, but flowerchild next to us wouldn't give us room. Then this guy asked my cousin if he had a bowl on him. I had to keep myself from being bored to death during those jams by singing ACOS over and over in my head. It was then that I realized that Phish was nothing but a dance band. Oh, and after the show, they were selling home made all natural brownies on the street. Maybe cause half of them didn't have enough money for the cab ride home ;-). The next morning, I went skee shooting with my Phish CDs.
long live prog and long live DT.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 22:08:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Alan Estrada Adler <al766074@mail.mty.itesm.mx> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: moshing <or being an idiot in general> Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.91.980519220820.29574A-100000@academ04.mty.itesm.mx>
On Tue, 19 May 1998, Matt Johnston wrote:
> > On Tue, 19 May 1998, belhai wrote: > > >I'm proud to be both an anti-mosher and an anti-dentite. > > Next you'll be saying they should have their own schools! >
they do have their own schools.
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 3917 **************************
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