YTSEJAM Digest 4356
Today's Topics:
1) A Wookeee .........
by NikBrooks@aol.com
2) Mike Portnoy Drum Clinics
by NikBrooks@aol.com
3) Other than 2 on bottom of time sig
by Jon Kretschmer <jkretsch@sdcc17.ucsd.edu>
4) Re: YTSEJAM digest 4355
by MentolPyro@aol.com
5) SV: YTSEJAM digest 4352
by "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mats_Rydstr=F6m?=" <d94-mry@nada.kth.se>
6) Miscellaneous debris
by Cyberwolf <ninja@mindspring.com>
7) Re: ODD TIMING!!!!!!!!!!!
by "Nikos@Tama-Greek band" <s9763230@minyos.its.rmit.edu.au>
8) Re: Miscellaneous debris
by Al Balkiewicz <balkiewi@UMDNJ.EDU>
9) FS:French prog promo cd w/ To Live Forever and Eve (Studio Versions)
by Kevin <kvill@flash.net>
10) My top 20
by "Vladimir Dourado" <vdourado@tecepe.com.br>
11) 12 th notes
by "Vladimir Dourado" <vdourado@tecepe.com.br>
12) Rare Dream Theater cdrs for sale
by Edward Polzin <polzin@uiuc.edu>
13) Rare Dream Theater and related cdrs for sale
by Edward Polzin <polzin@uiuc.edu>
14) Tuplets and Time counting
by "Christopher Ptacek" <someone@prognosis.com>
15) Re: Guitar schools
by Nathan Rood <nrood@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
16) Re: YTSEJAM digest 4352
by AyameYuki@aol.com
17) Re: YTSEJAM digest 4355
by AyameYuki@aol.com
18) Arrrggghh no more 12th notes
by "cjstearns" <cjstearns@feist.com>
19) 5/12 - FINAL POST (hopefully)
by mpm_2112@ix.netcom.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 18:22:54 EDT
From: NikBrooks@aol.com
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: A Wookeee .........
Message-ID: <74c07c0c.362d0d3e@aol.com>
In a message dated 10/20/98 6:47:52PM, you write:
>I just wanted to stop in and say....
>
>tuku tiki taka taketa waka waka wookeee
>
>ROFLMAO!
>:P
>Dave (aka buster) Hatlee
A wookeee????
Chewbacca on crack and steroids perhaps?
(DTIFC Christmas Cd 1997)
N
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 18:22:50 EDT
From: NikBrooks@aol.com
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Mike Portnoy Drum Clinics
Message-ID: <8b4f5f99.362d0d3a@aol.com>
Darkstar wrote:
If it wasn't for school taken up all my time i'd drive/walk/hitchhike
to see a clinic. Has anyone checked out his Progressive Drumming video?
Play truant or throw a sickie if any of these are near you. Believe me it=
IS
worth it!!
N
The following info was lifted from the UACM site so I make no apologies if
there are any inaccuracies!
Mon=A0=A0October=A026=A0=A0Guitar Center (602-753-6900)=A0=A0Tempe, AZ=A0=
=A0USA
Mon=A0=A0November=A09=A0=A0Daddy's (800-678-7300)=A0=A0Buffalo, NY=A0=A0US=
A
Tue=A0=A0November=A010=A0=A0Daddy's (800-678-7300)=A0=A0Syracuse, NY=A0=A0=
USA
Wed=A0=A0November=A011=A0=A0Daddy's (800-678-7300)=A0=A0Albany, NY=A0=A0US=
A
Thu=A0=A0November=A012=A0=A0CA House (740-695-5979)=A0=A0St. Clairsville, =
OH=A0=A0USA
Tue=A0=A0November=A017=A0=A0Midwest Music (316-265-3070)=A0=A0Wichita, KS=
=A0=A0USA
Wed=A0=A0November=A018=A0=A0Mozingo Music (314-227-5722)=A0=A0Ellisville, =
MO=A0=A0USA
Sat=A0=A0November=A021=A0=A0Rupps Drums (303-756-5777)=A0=A0Denver, CO=A0=
=A0USA
Sun=A0=A0November=A022=A0=A0RIT Drum Expo (616-243-7867)=A0=A0Grand Rapids=
,MI=A0=A0USA
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 15:28:41 -0700
From: Jon Kretschmer <jkretsch@sdcc17.ucsd.edu>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Other than 2 on bottom of time sig
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19981020152841.00893b80@sdcc17.ucsd.edu>
I wrote:
>> The bottom number refers to the duration of the base unit of rhythm,
>> usually 1,2,4, 8 or 16 (whole, half note, quarter, eigth, so on). So the
>> bottom notes are usually powers of two, but the top can be anything.
Then Roger asked:
> Ok. But now you said _usually_ in the last line quoted. Why did
>you say that? Are there any exceptions?
Theoretically, yeah. But you rarely, if ever, see them. Hindemith wrote
some stuff with the time sig as an integer on the top (not important what
it was, cuz I don't know), and a dotted quarter on the bottom. So it
looked something like
3
o|.
Think of the bottom thingie being a dotted quarter. So basically, the time
signature was "3 dotted quarters in a bar." That is an instance where
music strays from the traditional power-of-two-in-bottom.
Really, you can use ANY notation to write music, just as long as your
performers know what you are intending for them to play. As far as
tradition goes, there are certain standards, but as they say, rules are
meant to be broken.
Jon
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 18:29:13 EDT
From: MentolPyro@aol.com
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4355
Message-ID: <6352a43c.362d0eb9@aol.com>
Dave said
< Oh God Yes - this is such a great track, as is "Speak to Me", I can't
believe this sort of material can be written and then dropped, having
said that the rest of FII rocks as well, as does WAYN, RTK, CME, oh shit
we really need a "Songs that didn't quite make the albums" album -
Petition anyone...? >
ok, they didn't release so many good ones cuz they were planning on releasing
the songs on a later album (instead of a double album GODDAMNIT)
bye!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 00:28:48 +0200
From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mats_Rydstr=F6m?=" <d94-mry@nada.kth.se>
To: <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: SV: YTSEJAM digest 4352
Message-ID: <003801bdfc79$17eea4c0$4125ed82@mats>
On the subject about traveling for a band: I traveled from Stockholm, =
Sweden to Hollywood, USA to see DT (back in Sept.) The time zones =
difference is 9 hours. Beat that!
(Ok, so it wasn't just for the DT show, not at all really, but it fit =
with my other plans nicely so I tailored the trip to be able to see DT =
there and then. Didn't meet them and was as happy anyways, had met them =
in '93.)
Tip: $10 off CDNow purchases over $20, available sometimes from =
www.altavista.digital.com if you search for "albums" or something like =
that, or my home page www.nada.kth.se/~d94-mry, and no, I don't get =
cosmic credits for that link. I ordered OiaL and Whitesnake's excellent =
Snakebite for a total of $23.78, incl shipping to Sweden.
Mats
- d94-mry@nada.kth.se
- lordrosse@yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 18:44:01 +0000
From: Cyberwolf <ninja@mindspring.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Miscellaneous debris
Message-ID: <362CD9E7.54239141@mindspring.com>
1) Accept does not sound like AC/DC.
2) The easiest way to deal with odd time signatures... Just feel it. DON'T think about it.
3) Love is just part of evolution (get it?).
4) Dokken is playing NJ this weekend I think. ALthough Lynch is no longer in the band, It definately should be worth checking out anyhow.
5) In response to the Wyoming thing, USE YOUR MIND BEFORE SOMEONE USES IT FOR YOU. Thats it. Nothing else. Bye.
Scott M.
http://www.mindspring.com/~ninja
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 09:44:43 +1100 (EDT)
From: "Nikos@Tama-Greek band" <s9763230@minyos.its.rmit.edu.au>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Re: ODD TIMING!!!!!!!!!!!
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.981021093408.27401A-100000@minyos.its.rmit.edu.au>
Well, if you guys are worried about 9/8 timming, then u have seen nothing
yet? Working in an Ethnic band, odd beats are thown at me all the time.
9/8, 9/4, 7/8, 7/4, 5/8, 5/4, 11/8, 13/8 and so on, I think u get the
picture. Music is a mathematical concept, it pays well if u were good at
your revision in Junior High School.
Later YTSE JAMMERS
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 18:54:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Al Balkiewicz <balkiewi@UMDNJ.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Re: Miscellaneous debris
Message-ID: <Pine.HPP.3.96.981020185313.19009A-100000@njmsa.UMDNJ.EDU>
On Tue, 20 Oct 1998, Cyberwolf wrote:
> 4) Dokken is playing NJ this weekend I think. ALthough Lynch is no longer
> in the band, It definately should be worth checking out anyhow.
Yup, he's playing at the infamous Birch Hell at the end of this
month - don't know the dates - check ticketbastard dot com.
-Al
=====================================================================
b l i n d l a b o r s t h e b l i n d a n d I a m
u n w i l l i n g t o u n c o v e r m y e y e s
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
balkiewi@njmsa.umdnj.edu OR sigma982@yahoo.com OR theprof@bigfoot.com
HOMEPAGE:http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Towers/9280/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 17:59:46 -0500
From: Kevin <kvill@flash.net>
To: YtseJam Mailing list <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: FS:French prog promo cd w/ To Live Forever and Eve (Studio Versions)
Message-ID: <362D15E2.FF1F8557@flash.net>
I've got a promo only, limited edition, french release cd w/ the
following tracks:
(1)Dream Theater-To Live Forever (From Lie single) (2)Dream Theater-Eve
(From The Silent Man single) (3)Vanden Plas-My Crying (4)Vanden
Plas-Days of Thunder (From AcCult EP) (5) Fates Warning-Monument
(6)Fates Warning-Pale Fire (7)Shadow Gallery-Crystalline Dream (8)Shadow
Gallery-Deeper than Life (9)Landmarq-Cutting Room (10)Landmarq-Bed of
Nails (11)Elritch-Colors (12)Tiles-Bridges of Grace
(13)Magellen-Songsmith (14)Aragon-Hello God
This is a great pick up for anyone who missed the Lie and Silent Man
singles plus it is an excellent sampler for some great prog bands.
Please send offers to:
Thanks, Kevin.
-- ----------------------------------------------------------- Used CDs are always for sale at: http://www.flash.net/~kvill/cds4sale.html Updated regularly! -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 21:27:02 -0200 From: "Vladimir Dourado" <vdourado@tecepe.com.br> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: My top 20 Message-ID: <001201bdfc81$27a8da40$8abdf6c8@vdourado>
Hello Jammers!!!
My 20 favourite records are: (they aren=B4t in a preference order...they are simply the best records i= ever heard in my life...)
"Images and Words" DT "Awake"DT "Grace under pressure" Rush "Permanent waves"Rush "Powerslave" Iron Maiden "Burn" Deep Purple "One size fits all" Frank Zappa "Close to the edge" Yes "Fragile" Yes "The six wives of Henry VIII" Rick Wakeman "Regatta de blanc" The Police "Misplaced Childhood" Marillion "Time out" Dave Brubeck Quartet "Meedle" Pink Floyd "The Leprechaun"Chick Corea "Operation: Mindcrime" Queensryche "Paranoid" Black Sabbath "A day at the races" Queen "Highway to heel" AC/DC "Slide it in" Whitesnake
Well...i think is this...
[ ] 's Vladimir Rocha
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 21:39:39 -0200 From: "Vladimir Dourado" <vdourado@tecepe.com.br> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: 12 th notes Message-ID: <003301bdfc82$ea9010e0$8abdf6c8@vdourado>
Please Jammers...
12th notes?????????????
what a lack of things to do...
who brought this idea to here...please...explain me just one simple thing...
ARE YOU GOING TO CREATE A SYMBOL TO REPRESENT 12 TH NOTES ON THE PENTAGRAM?????? (of course not)
Thanx!!!
Vladimir Rocha
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 19:08:49 -0500 From: Edward Polzin <polzin@uiuc.edu> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Rare Dream Theater cdrs for sale Message-ID: <362D2611.D0CD75F8@uiuc.edu>
Check them out at:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=polzin
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 19:09:45 -0500 From: Edward Polzin <polzin@uiuc.edu> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Rare Dream Theater and related cdrs for sale Message-ID: <362D2649.76FC5742@uiuc.edu>
Check them out at:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=polzin
More to show up this week so check back often.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 19:30:44 -0500 From: "Christopher Ptacek" <someone@prognosis.com> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Tuplets and Time counting Message-ID: <003101bdfc8a$246dbd60$07809c83@7979811wheat.farm.niu.edu>
Okay, I've had this discussion with Bafu, and I think I can clear this up a bit.
Whole note = 4 quarter notes If you're in 5/4, a whole note does not become 5 beats. Half note = 2 quarter notes Quarter note = 2 eighth notes Quarter note triplets = 3 quarter notes that fit in the space of 2 quarter notes (this becomes a polyrhythm if the 2 quarter notes are present beneath the triplet) You can have any number of notes as a grouplet, 5 quarters over the space of 4, etc... Eighth note = 2 sixteenths Eighth note triplets = 3 eighths in the space of 2, and so on. Sixteenth note = 2 Thirty-Seconds Frequently guitarists use 16th note triplets. (Any lick that can be sung as "Dee-duh-lee dee-duh-lee")
Note values divide in halfs ALWAYS, so that it's a comprehensive grouping of notes. Music was played before it was written, so when the system was developed, it grew until it could cover as much as was logically playable. The goal of written music is to allow other people to re-create music as close as possible to the original, without a recording to reference.
So why, seeing as all time sigs. had been dealt with in some way before ANY of us were born, are there no 7th notes? Because this is taken care of with the current system, using polyrhythms and/or tuplets (note groupings). When Petrucci plays 5 note groups at the end of Erotomania, those are not 5th notes... they're quintuplets. The notes being played do not necessarily dictate the time sig in the way that many of you are presenting. If so, then a piece in cut time with all 16th notes would be 8/16 instead of 2/4, or a piece with all eighths in 5/4 would have to be 10/8.
Now, what if you have Bafu's example of a measure with 48 notes in it, all evenly spaced, over a measure with 4 beats in it? Why isn't this 48/48? Because in this case, you can divide the 48 notes into septuplets at 4/4. It's that simple. If the measure is clearly defined (the beats and subdivision are noticable) and it has 5 notes, or some other number (I believe Bafu actually used "43") that isn't divisible by 4, over 4 beats, we're in a whole other realm which is exceedingly common and not nearly as complicated as some people think: That's a polyrhythm. What you have is 5 (or 43... just a LITTLE bit tough to maintain as a polyrhythm) notes over 4-a 5 over 4 polyrhythm. You can do it on your desk... get one hand hitting 5 beats, and make the other hand or a foot tap 4 notes, that span the same time as the 5. A similar and easier rhythm is 3 over 2, which sounds like the rhythmic pattern from "The Carol of the Bells" if anyone had trouble with 5 over 4. A polyrhythm is a musical concept that came from African music and was absorbed by other cultures and musical forms.
For the example of 5/12, we may encounter something different. It NECESSARILY has to sound like a repeating 5 note group, if 5 is the top number. Depending on the speed of the subdivisions, it is going to end up being 5/8 or 5/4 most likely. If it doesn't add up as a standard group of 5 quarters or 5 eighths (16ths, 32nds, etc) then it is either a tempo change or a 5 over something polyrhythm.
There is no 12th note. Why? Because there is no need for one. Any evenly distributed group of notes can be EASILY notated with the current system. As per Korg, tapping 12 beats in a "Shuffle" is 12/8. It could theoretically be called 12/4 or 12/16 or whatever, but the number of notes actually played has nothing to do with the bottom number. The bottom number is the note value (length), and the top number is the number of beats counted at that value. Shaving 7 notes off that "shuffle" would be 5/8.
As per Earle, you have noticed something no music theory professor would argue about, in that the note value is an ambiguous concept. You can't ALWAYS just hear something wherein the subdivision comes out to 5 and say "that's 5/8" because it could be 5/4 or 5/16. The only absolute way to know is by the score, or by asking the composer. That being said, these are not always options, so in lieu of a better option we can make an educated guess. 9 times out of 10 (more like 99% of the time in rock) that guess will be the correct answer anyways. Sometimes though, a composer insists on a "fast 5/4 feel" or something like that. Breaking a note into 3 or 5 or 20 or whatever is covered in what you've already read by getting this far, so if anyone has any questions about grouplets (also called tuplets) just ask.
/me is a music major at NIU, and a guitarist of 10 years
- Chris
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 20:30:39 -0400 From: Nathan Rood <nrood@utkux.utcc.utk.edu> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: Guitar schools Message-ID: <362D2B2E.1963BC93@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
ytsejam@ax.com wrote:
> I gotta question for all you scholastic guitar whizzes out there in > ytse-land. I really want to pursue my musical education. The only problem > is that I live in the south (Texas) and I dont know of any colleges/music > schools anywhere in the south. If you could shine some light for my path I > would appreciate it.
The University of Tennessee, but that's as far as jazz performance. Supposedly, the jazz department is one of the best in the nation, but that comes from a friend I have in the program, so he may just be gloating. He claims that the professor who "taught Pat Metheny how to play" is now an instructor here. I'm am actually concidering a minor in jazz performance. BTW-I've seen some of these guitarists in the jazz program perform.......they play circles around my playing.
-Nate -- Nathan Rood / handle: Horizen mailto:nrood@utk.edu \ ICQ: 6170743 +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ There are two ways to get through life easily; to believe everything, or to believe nothing. Both release the mind from thinking. Earl Hindman
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 21:10:17 EDT From: AyameYuki@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4352 Message-ID: <2dacdd83.362d3479@aol.com>
hey nik....i tried that taki taki whatever....word of advice : dont ever come 3 breaths close to passing out in 1st period pe. my coach was beyond pissed that i blacked out during class. ( im her teacher's pet. i got to fetch markers! ) ...no wonder my nickname is "underdog " LOL
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 21:23:25 EDT From: AyameYuki@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4355 Message-ID: <dcc35118.362d378d@aol.com>
ok. im replying to the Texas guy guitar thing ::
hey ...im from alabama ( no difference really...i just dont live in 190 degree weather 24/7 )
look...check out Texas A&M's website for college references..im sure they have a music program you'd like. after all..they own like what ...2/10ths of texas themselves ?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 20:50:04 -0700 From: "cjstearns" <cjstearns@feist.com> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Arrrggghh no more 12th notes Message-ID: <199810210142.UAA19809@wichita.fn.net>
I said it before and I'll say it again cause I keep seeing the same thing over and over again. A 12 note is jazz and blues style note ask a jazz musician to play eight notes he will not play them straight tied triplets is the best way to describe it, it is not mathmatically correct. At the top of a music page it will usually say swing.
Nobody must read these things CJBass
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 21:16:34 -0500 (CDT) From: mpm_2112@ix.netcom.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: 5/12 - FINAL POST (hopefully) Message-ID: <19981020213359341@ix.netcom.com>
ok, after giving this much thought, Ive come to the conclusion that 5/12 would be a very complicated and unnecissary way of writting 15/16. taking it as, 12 would equal a dotted 8th note (8 + its half would equal 12). Now, this time signature shows 5 beats to the measure with the dotted 8th note getting one beat. If you were to add up all 5 dotted 8th notes, you would get 15 16th notes, seeing as how you already have the 5 8th notes and then the 4 halfs of the first 4 notes would equal two more 8th notes, with one half left over. Half an 8th note is a 16th note, so then divide up the 7 8th notes you already have into 14 16th notes, then add the 16th note you had as the half from the 5th dotted 8th note. 15/16. WHEW! Hope you can understand all that ;-) but just do the math, its there.
===================================================== "A daily dose of eMpTyV "Following our instinct will flush your mind not a trend. Go against right down the drain." the grain until the end." -Dream Theater -Metallica =====================================================
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 4356 **************************
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