YTSEJAM Digest 4810
Today's Topics:
1) xibalba
by TheCowGod <demccor@clemson.edu>
2) Avant Garde?
by Amanda Rosenblum <mildew@ucla.edu>
3) TOP bass player
by Paul Weiss <paulw@bass.org>
4) Re: YTSEJAM digest 4809
by John Parks <jpyyz@yahoo.com>
5) The chain
by "Josh Calkin" <j_calkin@oz.plymouth.edu>
6) Re: The chain
by Frank Benenati <fmb@frontierlogic.com>
7) Re: Avant Garde?
by Andy Putman <ytse@goethe.baker.rice.edu>
8) Re: Just stuff... (Stripped, Raped and Strangled)
by "James Lenart" <jalenart@hotmail.com>
9) Re: Strangle Yourself + comments on death metal
by Andy Putman <ytse@goethe.baker.rice.edu>
10) Different Intros
by HeiNouSX@aol.com
11) Re: Strangle Yourself + comments on death metal
by drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
12) Re: monster ballads
by drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
13) Re: Strangle Yourself With The Listening Chain
by Jim Shields <jimbob213@mail.utexas.edu>
14) Re: Just stuff...regarding BLIND GUARDIAN
by Jason.Breitweg@blind-guardian.com (Jason T. Breitweg)
15) Important reminder ICE AGE performs live this Sat.!!!
by RChiare954@aol.com
16) The Korg's Eye.
by "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net>
17) Re: TOP bass player
by "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:00:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: TheCowGod <demccor@clemson.edu>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: xibalba
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.990416105852.23028C-100000@hubcap.clemson.edu>
has anyone heard of the band Xibalba? they're featured on mp3.box.sk and
they've got 5 mp3s you can download. i got them and they're pretty good.
they're a progressive metal band from Slovakia. check out the page at
http://band.box.sk/xibalba/. moo.
*** END OF TRANSMISSION ***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:49:17 -0700
From: Amanda Rosenblum <mildew@ucla.edu>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Avant Garde?
Message-ID: <37175BFD.88EBCCF8@ucla.edu>
I'm probably only asking this because I'm too friggin tired to be
ashamed, but what is avante gard, musically speaking? Thanks. If
someone could give me some examples I think I'll catch on.
~~Amanda
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:05:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Paul Weiss <paulw@bass.org>
To: A Mind Forever Ytse-ing <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: TOP bass player
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.95.990416115123.24819A-100000@gs.bass.org>
Korg let me down and the legion of his idolizers the world over when he
mistakenly babbled:
>I think he (Ricc Fierabracci) used to play for that Tower of Power group
>the drummer (Joel Taylor) came from.
No, a thousand times no. The bass player for Tower of Power is Rocco
Prestia, who coincidentally has released a solo album within the last
couple of months. He and "Doc" Kupka are the reasons I still get the
recent releases.
All right, so I'm pedantic.
paul
NP Bjork: Debut+1
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul's biweekly musical quote:
Now I'm telling it to you straight/ so you don't have to hear it another
way/ Annie, I'm not your Daddy
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:40:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Parks <jpyyz@yahoo.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4809
Message-ID: <19990416164017.21652.rocketmail@web116.yahoomail.com>
What I'm saying is that it seems like some of you Fuckers
just scroll through the Jam looking for opinions that don't
agree with yours just so you can make a comment about it.
How about just letting someone have whatever "Fucking
Opinion" they want and leave them the hell alone. I
understand that having differing opinions is what makes the
Jam go 'round, but here lately all I see are little
sarcastic repsonses to other posts. I just can't wait
until LTE2 is released so we can have some DTC.
> i'm totally failing to see how in any way my statement
> makes me too
> uptight.....just because it's my opinion that your
> opinion is
> asinine, all of a sudden I'm constipated?
===
John Parks
jpyyz@yahoo.com
So much style without substance
So much stuff without style
Its hard to recognize the real thing
It comes along once in a while. -Neil Peart-
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:02:53 -0400
From: "Josh Calkin" <j_calkin@oz.plymouth.edu>
To: "Ytsejam" <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: The chain
Message-ID: <000701be8833$598ee840$32aa889e@guest3382>
I agree on most points about how the "chain" is over simplified, and how
it's generally wrong to call ANY genre of music inferior or superior to
another.
However, I also notice that this chain DOES have some relevance.
Pop->Metal->Prog->Avant Garde
is (probably) the way in which each type of music came into being in the
first place.
On the other hand, though, this can't be construed as making later forms
superior to earlier; time of appearance is in NO WAY proportional to
quality. For those of you who know cars, I think it can be agreed upon
that the '69 camaro was (and is) FAR superior to the '80s models... (sorry
for the bad analogy)
NP: ICP - Fat Sweaty Betty
Regards,
Josh Calkin:
URL: http://members.tripod.com/~DarkHarmony
E-Mail: darkharmony13@hotmail.com j_calkin@oz.plymouth.edu
ICQ: 22473371
AOL IM: Mortua
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:13:40 -0400
From: Frank Benenati <fmb@frontierlogic.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: The chain
Message-ID: <37177DD4.8F961ED1@frontierlogic.com>
> I think it can be agreed upon
> that the '69 camaro was (and is) FAR superior to the '80s models... (sorry
> for the bad analogy)
Using camaro and superior in the same sentance is about as much a
mistake as alternative music. Long Live the Mustang! :)
-mojoman
--
/\ /\
\_\/_/
/ _ _ \
|\ \(*)(*)/ /|
#-----------------OOO- \oo/--OOO------------#
# Frank Benenati - fmb@frontierlogic.com #
# "Some of the nicest people are dogs" #
# - Richard Dean Anderson #
#__________________________ooo______________#
ooo (_)
(_)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:23:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Andy Putman <ytse@goethe.baker.rice.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Re: Avant Garde?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990416092010.3644A-100000@goethe.baker.rice.edu>
> I'm probably only asking this because I'm too friggin tired to be
> ashamed, but what is avante gard, musically speaking? Thanks. If
> someone could give me some examples I think I'll catch on.
Well, to hear a good example from a fairly famous group, you might want to
pick up a copy of Thrak by King Crimson and listen to the title track.
It'll blow your mind (actually, if you're in an adventurous mood, pick up
'Thrakatak' (I think that's how you spell it), the live cd. That's even
crazier). After that, another good example is a group called Doctor
Nerve. You can get their cds mail order from several places. Just do a
quick search of the web.
-Andy Putman
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:40:02 PDT
From: "James Lenart" <jalenart@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: Just stuff... (Stripped, Raped and Strangled)
Message-ID: <19990416184003.83985.qmail@hotmail.com>
>Hey jammerz!
>
> First time i use this addy! wohooo!! anyhow! I have a
>question for you metal prog fans. I purchased 3 cds last week.
>One from Stratovarius... fourth dimension I believe... very good
>cd!! is it one of the best ones.. what other ones should I get..
>same goes for Blind Guardian.. i believe I picked up their latest
>one.. the one from 1998 which has 22 songs, It's good. I wonder
>how their 2 older ones are?!
>
>Mr. Prog
hey, well i happen to be a *huge* BG fan so perhaps i can aid you
with this question. i don't think it would be benificial for me to
just tell you what albums i like so i will try to summarize a few of
them.
Imaginations is their most well rounded album...all the elements you
found on N-IME will pretty much be apparent on that album as well...a
bit more agressive overall, but perhaps not as dark/emotional. many
people have complained about the production on this album as
well...very fat, with sometimes the vocals overshadowing everything
else during the chorus parts.
Somewhere far beyond is a bit less melodic on the rythmn guitars than
both the album before it and after it. this is usually the favorite
album for most fans (although for me it is almost my least favorite).
don't pass this one up though as their trademark song "the bards
song...in the forest" is on it...(a side note, when this song is
played live, it is done acustically with almost no vocals done by the
band...the crowd sings the whole song...unbelievable experience so i
have been told)
Tales from the twilight world is *very* melodic and was their first
bombastic chorus' album. very well rounded although most songs keep
up a very fast pace (like "when sorry sang" on N-IME). if you liked
any of the top 3 albums you'll like this one too.
their first two albums, Battalions of Fear and Follow the Blind are
both pretty much straight ahead thrash/power metal. musically these
albums have many more instrumentals and changes but do not really
change pace or speed. similar to early testament or "walls of
jerhico" era helloween. check out these last if you really like N-
IME.
by all means check out their site, and get some other opinions.
vcoejsmvhsogheoxmvcmoaimvckdudbenfibhsncjfpsncngobmznl
s d
f Jim Lenart url: m
s "Sorrowed" www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/ s
l icq:25717769 Palladium/5795/solitude.html v
h a
pckeisomnhyouaregaycoepmcnwodndlaoenbgzquamlgosmickdis
-with April, and the beggining of spring, the season of
renewal and growth is finally upon us. lets take the time
to really charish all of nature's gracious gifts with a
small token of our appreciation. with this in mind i have
chosen to include Cannible Corpse song titles within all
of my topics.
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:50:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: Andy Putman <ytse@goethe.baker.rice.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Re: Strangle Yourself + comments on death metal
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990416092745.3644B-100000@goethe.baker.rice.edu>
> This "chain" of pop->metal->prog->avant garde is a joke, right? I mean,
(btw, someone took out prog-metal from between metal and prog. there IS a
distinction).
I think someone misunderstood the point of the 'chain'. It was not meant
to make universal, sweeping claims about the objective, relative value of
genres (that's a mouthful, isn't it?:>). It was more to show how my
musical tastes have changed over time. The earlier genres helped me get
into that later genres. In fact, I'm willing to bet many people go
through the same kind of musical changes. It takes progressively more and
more attention and thought to listen to the later genres. That's an
objective fact, but it doesn't imply that one genre is 'better' than
another. It also does not in any way imply that I dislike or look down on
any genre on the list. Heck, right now I'm listening to Marillion, and
yesterday my band and I spent time learning 'Seek and Destroy', at my
request. Only foolish people listen to merely a single genre, though most
people (if you ask in the right way) will admit that there is one they
listen to more frequently than the others.
-Andy Putman
ps-To the person who mentioned adding death metal, doom metal, industrial
metal etc -- Personally, the only death metal album I've been able to get
into is 'Individual Thought Patterns' by Death. I think what I like most
about this album is that instead of just screaming mindless lyrics about
death, satan, and sex, they actually try to do something more intelligent
(actually, I seem to remember a song making fun of people who do this).
Can you suggest any other death metal albums which possess this quality?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:51:43 EDT
From: HeiNouSX@aol.com
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Different Intros
Message-ID: <694b9bf5.2448eecf@aol.com>
In a message dated 4/16/99 9:17:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ytsejam@ax.com
writes:
> Thank you
> Joe Latuscha
>
> Sieze the day
> I heard him say,
> life will not always
> Be this way
> Turn around
> Hear the sounds
> Cherish your life
> While you're still around.
Isn't it Look around, hear the sounds?
I may be wrong....I don't have my cd booklet around.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:44:42 -0700
From: drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: Strangle Yourself + comments on death metal
Message-ID: <199904162044.NAA20946@gms.gmsnet.com>
Before being sacrificed upon the altar..., Andy Putman thus begged:
>
>ps-To the person who mentioned adding death metal, doom metal, industrial
>metal etc -- Personally, the only death metal album I've been able to get
>into is 'Individual Thought Patterns' by Death. I think what I like most
>about this album is that instead of just screaming mindless lyrics about
You should hear Dimmu Bogir, these guys are insane... Death Metal with
keyboards and technical prowess...
-The Doc
--
------ drkhoe@gmsnet.com -------------- ++++++ ----------------------
///// http://progmetal.gmsnet.com ----------------==== Unix systems -
C/C++ video game engine development =><=============== Administration
===================== Intranet/Internet Engineering =================
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:45:48 -0700
From: drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: monster ballads
Message-ID: <199904162045.NAA20981@gms.gmsnet.com>
I would have to nominate Dokken's Alone Again as the power ballad all
other metal ballads are judged upon..
-The Doc
--
------ drkhoe@gmsnet.com -------------- ++++++ ----------------------
///// http://progmetal.gmsnet.com ----------------==== Unix systems -
C/C++ video game engine development =><=============== Administration
===================== Intranet/Internet Engineering =================
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:05:12 -0500
From: Jim Shields <jimbob213@mail.utexas.edu>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: Strangle Yourself With The Listening Chain
Message-ID: <l03130300b33d5515afbe@[128.83.176.86]>
> This "chain" of pop->metal->prog->avant garde is a joke, right? I mean,
>you're fucking kidding around, and I just missed some smiley faces, right?
>Who has the audacity to put one genre on top of another in any sense, let
>alone in such thoughtlessly general qualitative terms? What could be the
>POSSIBLE purpose of this, other than foster some bogus elitism? What's
>next, saying that your career is the superior career? I bet your eye color
>is superior too.
ummm... isn't he just showing the progression of music he's grown to listen
to? I don't think he's calling any one type superior to the other, just
that he started his music-listening life listening to pop, then metal, then
prog, and then avant garde. he's not ranking them or saying one type leads
to another or anything like that, I believe. Damn, some of us 'jammers
are argumentative!
Jim Shields
Guitar/Vocals Room 213
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Spread before you is your soul / So Forever hold the dream within our hearts
Through Nature's inflexible grace, I'm learning to live.
Dream Theater "Learning to Live"
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
------------------------------
Date: 16 Apr 1999 23:44:21 +0200
From: Jason.Breitweg@blind-guardian.com (Jason T. Breitweg)
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: Just stuff...regarding BLIND GUARDIAN
Message-ID: <m3g160mea2.fsf@breitweg-rem.desy.de>
Hi everyone,
Mr. Prog> ones.. what other ones should I get.. same goes for Blind
Mr. Prog> Guardian.. i believe I picked up their latest one.. the
Mr. Prog> one from 1998 which has 22 songs, It's good. I wonder how
Mr. Prog> their 2 older ones are?! and Angra.. I picked up
You mean their FOUR other ones (not including their one live CD). In
order from the older to the newest they have:
Battalions of Fear
Follow the Blind
Tales from the Twilight World
Somewhere Far Beyond
(Tokyo Tales) = the live one
Imaginations from the Other Side
The Forgotten Tales
Nightfall in Middle-Earth
Anyway if you love NiM-E (and who doesn't? :-) ) then I suggest that
you first pick up "Imaginations from the Other Side" and then
"Somewhere Far Beyond" and once those soak in get the rest (maybe
getting "Tales from the Twilight World" before the others.
For some other mp3 samples from the other BG CDs you caan check out
the media section at www.blind-guardian.com. I just wish those damn
lazy webmasters there would update that page! *evil grin*
Jason
--
Currently Playing: HEAVEN'S GATE - Menergy
--
+-------------------+------------------------------+
| Jason T. Breitweg | Home: +49 (0)40 23 80 90 98 |
| Muenzstr. 11 | Work: +49 (0)40 89 98 31 57 |
| D-20097 Hamburg | FAX: +49 (0)40 23 80 90 81 |
| GERMANY | Mobil: +49 (0)171 176 79 37 |
+-------------------+------------------------------+
| E-mail: Jason.Breitweg@blind-guardian.com |
| http://www-zeus.desy.de/~breitweg ICQ: 7495933 |
+--------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:02:39 EDT
From: RChiare954@aol.com
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Important reminder ICE AGE performs live this Sat.!!!
Message-ID: <94b719ee.244937af@aol.com>
Magna Carta artists ICE AGE will perform this Saturday at the Voodoo Lounge
in Bayside Queens, NY. Long Island's Ice Age have gone a long way a finally
have an upcoming CD with Magna Carta out this June. Ice Age's music has been
described by many as heavy, dramatic, progressive rock. Those who have seen
Ice Age at the Powermad concert can relate to this description. The band
consists of guitarist extraordinaire Jimmy Pappas, a former student of John
Petrucci, Arron DiCesare on bass, a former student of Berklee College Of
Music, ex-Cold Steel drummer Hal Aponte and finally Josh Pincus on vocals and
keys, a former student and friend of Kevin Moore. Despite their influences
and musical inspirations, Ice Age have developed their own sound throughout
their years of existence. The band focuses on song writing rather than
constantly shredding fast licks and riffs. Make no mistake, these guys can
also rip it up, yet they do it tastefully, focusing on emotion.
Check their web-site for more info:
www.ice-age.com
www.magnacarta.net
see you there!
Ricky C!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 19:14:30 -0600
From: "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net>
To: <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: The Korg's Eye.
Message-ID: <005101bd699f$eb84afe0$4a0d84d0@default>
> This "chain" of pop->metal->prog->avant garde is a joke, right?
It's really a matter of musical evolution, an expanding of one's sonic
horizons, per se. Not pointing out that "this is better than that." Some
people just evolve faster than others. Chris came out of the womb with "Jim
Dunlop Jazz III" engraved on each fingernail. :) Just got a headstart is
all. :)
Now consider music to be something of a labyrinth, a circular maze. At the
center, you have the most convenient, easiest accesible music available.
The center consists of the mainstream. We all start at the center
(generally). Most people are content to stay in the center. Most musicians
aren't and some non-musicians aren't. We wander out into the maze searching
for something new.
The second most accesible form of music in the rock genre is likely metal
(nowdays) although in the past it could have been jazz or fusion. Some
people will wander around in this area of the labyrinth for some time and
perhaps journey back to the center, while others, seeking more of a
challenge will wander into the third tier. Other things that might be found
in this area are hardcore... techno... funk... Tom Jones...
The third most popular tier would be progressive rock/metal. More
challenge. Alot of people tend to like this area and camp out. Some people
wander into a dead end and stop, perhaps moving back to the center. Some
people still aren't content with this area and move to the outer fringes of
the labyrinth. Some people might wander all around the third tier, taking
in the things that branch off, such as jazz, or fusion...
The outer fringes are where all of the really fucked up shit is. The stuff
that many people who don't have a severe respect for musical ability will
avoid simply because it is so fucked up. Alot of people will stop at this
point. It's not a favorable area, but it's a fun one to be in at times.
Quite a few people will turn back into the third tier and beyond, but then,
some people find themselves at the outer wall of the maze.
What lies outside the maze you ask? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Then why
reach that far? This area is pretty much for musicians only. What people
do here is simply build on to the maze. Creating their own impact. Their
own style. Their own new form of music. Seldom anymore is the labyrinth
added to, but it slowly and occasionally is. If you do create your own part
of the maze, don't expect alot of visitors, as there are few who will
journey that far. But isn't it more fun to create that section rather than
simply let the space go to waste? :)
I know I only made references to the rock style above but I'm not limiting
music to be all but that. Each style of music branches outward in a
separate direction, but being a circle, you may find yourself returning to
the center in a different direction than you'd intended. You may have
departed via the pop quadrant and wander into the borders of the rap section
without realizing it. Slowly you may find yourself enjoying something you'd
despised before, if you're not afraid to let it seep into you. You could
always wander from the rock section to the fusion section into the funk
section and back out the rap section. The farther you delve deeper into the
maze the more the various generalized styles of music tend to meld together
to where you can't categorize anything. It's like musical nirvana, but it
can be acheived no matter which direction you take, as long as you keep
moving forward.
>The last album that destroyed me was Sting's Soul Cages (which
Killer album, BTW. Sting's one of the whackiest songwirters out there.
Very great songwriting while a little off the wall. And Dominic Miller is
one of my favorite guitarists, too, thanks to him. :) Anyway, I'll let this
little venture into my mind come to a cease. Please remain seated until the
ride comes to a complete stop, and thank you for riding me!
--
KorgX3, Marionette... of the GODS!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 19:37:27 -0600
From: "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net>
To: <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Re: TOP bass player
Message-ID: <007801bd69a1$68c90ea0$4a0d84d0@default>
>No, a thousand times no. The bass player for Tower of Power is Rocco
Ricc, Rocco... What's the difference? One vowel? *wields a 4" double
check valve fire sprinkler assembly and dares you to flame him*
So I fucked up. :) I guess I should have checked my sources. hehehe.
Anyway, here's some info on Mr. Fierabracci, albeit a little dated, for
everyone's reference. http://www.swreng.com/swrqaeight.html
--
KorgX3 is still reeling from that last big post.
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 4810
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