YTSEJAM Digest 4535
Today's Topics:
1) Perfect Pitch
by Adam Cook <acook@tiac.net>
2) Re: No, you don't have perfect pitch.
by Craig Griffith <tarkus@softhome.net>
3) Re: YTSEJAM digest 4534
by AyameYuki@aol.com
4) Re: YTSEJAM digest 4534
by AyameYuki@aol.com
5) Perfect Pitch.
by szebro1@gl.umbc.edu
6) Re: It's a B!
by "g-HosT" <g-host@geocities.com>
7) Re: Perfect Pitch.
by Jens Johansson <jens@panix.com>
8) Help
by Jordi Gen? Mateu <merma@telcel.net.ve>
9) Re: It's a B!
by Lisa Marie <ytsegirl@pacbell.net>
10) Poughkeepsie show, and the christmas CD
by Angus53@aol.com
11) Puppies on Acid vs The Mirror
by "Computer Jim DTFOTL" <bosstoneC@aol.com>
12) An example of the B5 vs C in Mirror/Puppies on Acid.
by "Computer Jim DTFOTL" <bosstoneC@aol.com>
13) Re: Help
by Peter Geerts <zaphod@ace.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.ac.be>
14) CDs playing wrong / Perfect Pitch
by Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu>
15) Re: DT's Live Sound - A Question
by Joe DeAngelo <jdeangelo@home.com>
16) Re: Threshold
by Phil Carter <phil@usefulware.com>
17) Re: Gag me with chunky shit
by "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 09:55:51 -0500
From: Adam Cook <acook@tiac.net>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Perfect Pitch
Message-ID: <368E3377.33195228@tiac.net>
> Wrong. You haven't listened to the course. It's worked for one
> of my friends. It's not a miracle, it's just a logical method for
> developing a talent that just about everyone already has. It still takes
> time, but the Burge course has refined the steps for that particular ear
> training goal, in an attempt to accelerate the learning curve. I don't
> know why you would deny that the thing could work... I mean, if you have
> perfect pitch, you either got it a long time ago, and never had a reason
> to sit through hours of boring tape exercises, or you learned it from a
> course, in which case....cello! you're living proof that the tape course
> should work.
>
> - Chris
Well, although the rest of his post was most accurate.....at this point
I think I must disagree with the mighty Ptacek.
Perfect Pitch is genetic. I know because the two people I know who have
it just happen to be from the same family. One of them is a 12 year old
kid who was in the school play this year. There was one point in the
play where he would have to start singing a song without ANY reference
note and he would sing the EXACT note every single time. Later on we
decided to start testing him with the piano and sure enough he would get
the right note immediately.
Now, I know this kid sure as hell hasn't done ear training excercise
every day for his entire life. He was just born with it. I have NEVER
seen anybody achieve perfect pitch without being born with it. However,
most of my music teachers have always had extremely good relative pitch.
For example, in the middle of a tune, they can transcribe a many bars of
a solo at a time without having to play it on their instruments. This is
most likely the skill that those courses attempt to teach...not true
perfect pitch.
Adam
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 11:00:26 -0500
From: Craig Griffith <tarkus@softhome.net>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: No, you don't have perfect pitch.
Message-ID: <368E429A.ED2036D9@softhome.net>
Christopher Ptacek wrote:
> Someone else:
> > Just Let Me Breathe is in E major (4 sharps), but I believe an
> > illustrious member of the Ytsejam community pointed out that the solo
> > (with trade-offs) is in the E Phrygian mode.
>
> Actually, I don't know who you want to consider to be a more
> reliable source on this, but the very first discussion I ever had with
> Sherinian was him asking me a DT trivia question to "prove myself" or what
> not. He asked what scale the unison thing in JLMB (you're calling it a
> trade off, but the keys and guitar are actually both playing the whole
> time, and it's just panned in the mix) was, and I sat there and listened
> and twiddled on my guitar for a while until I had isolated all of the
> notes of the scale, and it was in Lydian Dominant (the 4th mode of
> Melodic Minor). It's basically like playing the Lydian mode but with a
> b7, or the Mixolydian mode with a #4 (that's how I see it on my neck)
> I forget which key it was in, but I could go back and figure out if anyone
> cares. Anyways, Derek said it was correct, and seeing as he plays the
> thing, I am inclined to think it's not in Phrygian at all. Also, doesn't
> it sound a little weird to play that unison deal in a minor mode?
> Phrygian is one of the darkest sounds around... not entirely conducive to
> the major sounds in that passage, if you ask me.
Ah, you're right. I just got the mode wrong...I didn't really know the modes at
that time, so it's quite possible that I remembered it wrong. Upon playing a
two octave Phrygian mode, I see what you mean. It's also a very difficult scale
(for me, at least) to play quickly.
-- Craig Griffith: High school student, guitar player, King of Craigland http://www.geocities.com/EnchantedForest/Dell/8509/ "I may make you feel, but I can't make you think" -Ian Anderson------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 11:37:28 EST From: AyameYuki@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4534 Message-ID: <6ea3229c.368e4b48@aol.com>
Ok you bastards ( meaning YOU mpm_2112@ix.netcom.com ) hey you idiot. dont bring my sn back into this shit that YOU started in the first place.
and ps matt, even though you are a bastard who wont shut up, i still seem to like you. dont even think about IMing me tonight. you'll get a mouthfull of my dose of PMS.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 11:48:41 EST From: AyameYuki@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4534 Message-ID: <532b5e96.368e4de9@aol.com>
hey...by the way < ive seen the advertisements for the perfect pitch videos. i never have ( and never will ) have the urge to buy one of those videos. my perfect pitch is natural..and to the CD's in the cold thing..yeah...any type of weather ( in my opinion ) can screw up a CD compared to the first time you listened to it...take for example...youre riding down I65, on your way to a college expo., and youre jamming to a cool song on your CD and all of a sudden that chord souds wayyyy too high. you glance out the window and hey...its raining all of a sudden. and then, you decide to stop the CD and relisten to a passage,and suddenly..the song seems to change your mood, and you get angry and ask " WHY wont the fucking CD play right! it sounded lower before! what's up with this CD? "
now tell me..anyone had this experience relatively ?
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 12:09:00 -0500 (EST) From: szebro1@gl.umbc.edu To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Perfect Pitch. Message-ID: <199901021709.MAA08413@gl.umbc.edu>
Argh. Once again the perfect pitch issue is bothering me. I really REALLY hate it when perfect pitch is referred to as some elusive thing that only certain people have. As Ptacek said, perfect pitch is an ability which all of us have th POTENTIAL to develop, and that it is something that is LEARNED through a combination of relative pitch and pitch memory. Most guitarists have a "perfect" E. As a baritone, singing a million and a half songs in the key of D Major or d minor, I have a "perfect" D above middle C. Many musicians develop a "perfect" middle C. But, the bottom line is that it is something that is DEVELOPED or LEARNED. Humans are born without instinct. Even prodigies like Mozart, Prince, and Jordan Rudess had to learn their musical abilities. maybe they learned them at a very young age, or learned them without trying, but they learned them nonetheless.
Steve Z
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 13:28:37 -0400 From: "g-HosT" <g-host@geocities.com> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: It's a B! Message-ID: <003001be3675$558055a0$a4c55bd1@g-host>
>isnt Ayame Yuki (who says its a C chord) also the "classically trained" >musician who thought there was such a thing as a 12th note? I just >think thats interesting....
I just had to add a big *LOL* for that one :) I'll shut up now : )
Hey wait a minuite. From what i have learned, Perfect Pitch is a genetic thing, And Realative pitch is the learned version of it, but it's not quite as strong, who knows? But about this whole B-C thing... I personally believe it's in B... But who the fuck cares? If you think it's in C then by god play the damn song in C. If not, well, then dont. It's not the like big music god is gonna come down out of the sky and say " you're playing that song a half step off... DIE!" So I say, just Forget about it and go on with your lives. but then again, if we didnt talk about stupid shit here, there would be nothing at all to talk about! boo...
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 12:53:43 -0500 (EST) From: Jens Johansson <jens@panix.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: Perfect Pitch. Message-ID: <Pine.GSU.4.03.9901021242300.20093-100000@panix2.panix.com>
On Sat, 2 Jan 1999 szebro1@gl.umbc.edu wrote:
> Argh. Once again the perfect pitch issue is bothering me. I really > REALLY hate it when perfect pitch is referred to as some elusive thing > that only certain people have. As Ptacek said, perfect pitch is > an ability which all of us have th POTENTIAL to develop, and that > it is something that is LEARNED through a combination of relative pitch > and pitch memory.
In my opinion: Partly true, there's a heavy genetic component. By the way, I've seen situations where perfect pitch can be a bit of a curse. Seeing Symphony X's stand-in bass player (Andy DeLuca) re-notate a whole set of SX songs "one flat" qualifies. "it just doesn't sound right if I transpose it on sight..." :) I got the impression that Pinella has PP as well..
> middle C. But, the bottom line is that it is something that is DEVELOPED > or LEARNED. Humans are born without instinct.
I'd argue that language is somehow innate, and that music and language are very closely related (hey, same perceptive organs!!).. But we're already wildly offtopic...
Jens. <jens@panix.com> (http://www.panix.com/~jens/)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 03:51:19 -0400 From: Jordi Gen? Mateu <merma@telcel.net.ve> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Help Message-ID: <3674C377.2575@telcel.net.ve>
Can anyone tell me teh URL of the mp3 of The new version of metroplis and some others!!
Thanks jorDi
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 09:56:17 -0800 From: Lisa Marie <ytsegirl@pacbell.net> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: It's a B! Message-ID: <3.0.32.19990102095614.00a389bc@postoffice.pacbell.net>
At 11:04 PM 1/1/99 -0800, you wrote: > >Just thought Id like to bring this up: > >isnt Ayame Yuki (who says its a C chord) also the "classically trained" >musician who thought there was such a thing as a 12th note? I just >think thats interesting....
..and apparently is also the person currently in possession of Mosh's crack pipe.
Mosh... you have *got* to keep an eye on that thing!
;o)
Happy New Year, you crazy people.
Lisa Marie "Jessie" ytsegirl@pacbell.net http://www.dreamt.org/jessie _______________________________ Ytsejam Radio Broadcast http://www.dreamt.org/ytseradio
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 13:49:22 EST From: Angus53@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Poughkeepsie show, and the christmas CD Message-ID: <a23188a1.368e6a32@aol.com>
I was fortunate enough to catch one of the Christmas shows this holiday season, and DT did not let me down. The show was unreal, and I was fortunate enough to get one of the set lists (off the guitar stand). I got in the mail earlier that day the Dream Theater Christmas CD. I like it a lot because it has most of the songs that I did nothave on CD already which is cool. I was a little upset that the order of songs on that album turned out to be the set list at the show that night give or take (more give then take). But its all good, the show and the CD rock and it was a very merry holiday season of Dream Theater. Later............. Andrew
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 11:11:39 -0000 From: "Computer Jim DTFOTL" <bosstoneC@aol.com> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Puppies on Acid vs The Mirror Message-ID: <000a01be365a$1d0b7800$43533181@i9web>
>>section of The Mirror is a C chord. Glad I could be >of service. :) >You need to have your ears checked, my friend. It's clearly a low B.
On AWAKE, Mirror is a B5....
As far as puppies on acid goes... Let me whip out the CD here.....
Yeah.... I just checked it out. Its the same exact chord.... A b5... I recorded the two, and put them together.... Its virtually seamless.
I also played a C on my keyboard while Puppies on Acid was playing. It is horribly dissonant (sp) I'm no music major, but I know my notes and chords.
Puppies on Acid is Definitely a B5 as per Awake.
Happy new Year! Time to go party.. jim
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 11:11:47 -0000 From: "Computer Jim DTFOTL" <bosstoneC@aol.com> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: An example of the B5 vs C in Mirror/Puppies on Acid. Message-ID: <000b01be365a$1ded4c80$43533181@i9web>
>HEY EVERBODY. IM the person who said Puppies on Acid was a C chord. and yes i >was right. and to who started this bet ( i know who you are ) I WAS RIGHT AND >YOU WERE WRONG. so stick your head back into your butt and move on. and keep >your power trip to yourself.
Its a B5. Perhaps you should stop thinking of people putting their heads in their butts and read up on music a little bit.
The bass note on the guitar is in fact a B, but it is not a C chord.
If it were a C chord that B in there would make it a CM7... hm. I never took a theory class either.
Its like when you play an open c on guitar: ECECE 032010
The bass note being played there is an E yet its a C-Chord.
Here's Another example:
The chord F# is comprised of F# A# and C#, yet if you play the A# an octave down, it becomes F#/A#. That's the F# Chord with an A# bass note.
Want some metamucil? (SP) Jim
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 21:00:15 +0100 (CET) From: Peter Geerts <zaphod@ace.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.ac.be> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: Help Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.05.9901022054350.10810-100000@ace.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.ac.be>
On Sat, 2 Jan 1999, Jordi Gen? Mateu wrote:
> Can anyone tell me teh URL of the mp3 of The new version of metroplis > and some others!!
Follow this procedure:
1) Wait until summer 2) Buy DT's next album 3) Transfer the track called 'Metropolis Part II' to your computer (as a wav file for example) 4) Call that file MetII.wav 5) Convert MetII.wav to mp3 6) Call that file MetII.mp3 7) Upload it to a server where you have a homepage 8) Provide a link to MetII.mp3 on your homepage 9) Post the URL of MetII.mp3 to the YML 10)Ask your question again, you will be helped soon...
:-)
Cheers
Zaphod
============================================================================== Peter Geerts *QUOTE* zaphod@ace.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.ac.be "HELP!" (The Beatles) ICQ: 13122363 Second Year's Political Sciences Student, Leuven University, Belgium President JVS Orion Mechelen Youth Astronomers Club, Belgium ==============================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 16:24:34 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: CDs playing wrong / Perfect Pitch Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.990102160522.14523A-100000@oz.plymouth.edu>
On Sat, 2 Jan 1999 AyameYuki@aol.com wrote:
<CLIP> > and all of a sudden that chord souds wayyyy too high. you glance out the > window and hey...its raining all of a sudden. and then, you decide to stop > the CD and relisten to a passage,and suddenly..the song seems to change your > mood, and you get angry and ask " WHY wont the fucking CD play right! it > sounded lower before! what's up with this CD? " > > now tell me..anyone had this experience relatively ? >
YES! I swear to God, sometimes I leave a CD playing all night and when I wake up in the morning, the CD is going WAY too fast. As in, the pitch is higher, though not so much that I can tell, but the tempos on the CD are just in general going too fast. I think that as a CD motor goes, it just keeps going and keeps getting faster as it warms up. I would assume that since CDs are digital information, they won't actually play higher, because the data is either on or off, it's not like a tape where if it goes faster, it goes higher. However, something clicks in your head saying that there is something wrong with the music. That's the only way I can describe what I hear with CDs.
Christopher Ptacek wrote:
> You don't have perfect pitch. Perfect pitch was described to me by a > friend who has had it since he started playing piano around 4 or 5 years > old as "Hearing colors." Your ear hears notes the same way your eyes > see colors. So if you see a "Blue Green" it's comparable to hearing a > note in between D/D#.
I know what you're saying. My French Horn teacher also tells me that I don't have "perfect" pitch. My voice teacher uses the term "absolute" pitch (as I said before), because it's not the traditional form of perfect pitch, with colors, but rather a different method, yet at the same time, I can find a pitch 19 times of out 20. So I use the term perfect pitch rather loosely, because yes, in reality, it's not actually perfect, but I just use the term because the term "relative pitch", for some reason, is frowned upon at my school. Like it's not authentic or something. But I don't really want to use the term relative pitch either, because I don't have to HEAR a pitch first before being able to relate it to another pitch to determine it.
And yes, I was not born with it, either, to answer a comment somebody else made on the jam. I learned it, or rather, realized one day that when I sang a song in my head it was on-pitch.
To answer the "colors" thing, I don't see colors when I hear music. However, I feel a different thing: I notice the darkness or brightness of the particular key that a piece is in. Take, for instance, the key of D major. I was in my vocal performance lab one day when a friend of mine was singing a piece by Brahms. It was a very sad piece, but it happened to be in the key of D major. I asked her, "Why would Brahms write a piece that was so sad in the key of D major, which is such a bright key?" She didn't know what I was talking about, but I thought she would, because she HAS perfect pitch. Maybe she hadn't attributed the whole color thing to it. I don't know. Anyway, I thought it odd that something as sad as that would be in a brighter key. Take Bach's Magnificat, for example. He wanted it to originally be written in the key of D major (and actually did when he re-wrote it), but the church that he wrote it for wanted it to be part of a Mass, so for some reason they made him write it in E flat major. Very different sound. Or Vivaldi's Gloria. D major again. Why? Because it's such a "happy" key.
Another example: D flat minor. You will NEVER hear a darker key than D flat (or C sharp) minor. That's why Beethoven wrote the moonlight Sonata in C sharp minor - because the sound of it is SO dark.
------------------------------------------- Andrew Coutermarsh a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu http://oz.plymouth.edu/~a_couter/ ICQ: 2513441 ------------------------------------------- "In the New Year, hold your right hand out always in friendship, but never in want." -- Irish toast -------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 16:31:40 -0500 From: Joe DeAngelo <jdeangelo@home.com> To: YTSEJAM <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: DT's Live Sound - A Question Message-ID: <368E903C.66309D07@home.com>
Keith Lambert wrote: > DT took the stage and the sound was just appalling; a big > mush, bouncing off the walls and the ceiling. John stood next to the sound > desk and even gave the sound guy a few choice "sort it out for fucks sake" > kind of looks. Anyway, the sound remained the same throughout the gig and > the show turned out to be a big disappointment.
Keith, the first time I saw Dream Theater (St. Andrews Hall in Detroit, on the FII tour), I had the EXACT same experience. The sound was unbelievably awful. I (honestly) could barely tell what song they were playing at times. Fortunately, the next time I saw them (same venue about 6 months later) it was probably the best concert I've ever seen, and the sound was impeccable. I also saw them open for ELP/DP, and they sounded good then also (although the sound was too quiet).
> Now fortunately, John is > wise enough not to let this experience diminish his enthusiasm for the band > and he will go to see them again.
Glad to hear that! :) And you can reassure your friend that most likely, they'll sound much better next time.
--
- Joe D. aka Magellan jdeangelo@home.com ICQ # 1872723 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- I swear on tomorrow- If you take this chance- Our lives are this moment The music, the dance- And here in this labyrinth- Of lost mysteries I close my eyes on this night- And you're all that I see - Savatage, from "Not What You See" -----------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 17:17:57 -0500 From: Phil Carter <phil@usefulware.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: Threshold Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19990102171757.006ac890@pop.usefulware.com>
Greetings ye 'jamanoids....
Joe D. remarked: >As good as I think this CD is, I'm really suprised that I don't ever >hear Threshold's name on the 'Jam (explanations anybody?). Also, does >anybody know any websites for these guys? Are their other CD's as good >as this one? For that matter, do they HAVE other CDs?
There are at least three other ones I'm aware of: "Wounded", which I own, and "Extinct Instinct" and "Clone", which I don't. "Wounded" is in fact a better disc than "Psychedelicatessen" IMHO: better vocals (Glyn Morgan is good, but Damian Wilson is better), lots of keys much more up front in the mix, very evident orchestrations, and some very very well written songs.
Some have told me that "Clone" isn't worth getting; apparently the vocal situation has changed yet again (Threshold's a great band but from all indications they seem to have trouble keeping the same lineup).
As for why Threshold doesn't appear in 'jam discussions much: Beats me. I think they kick ass.
DTC: Um, Threshold opened for DT a couple times. :)
ta, Phil
========================================================= Phil Carter -- phil@usefulware.com http://www.mindspring.com/~philcarter "Music washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life." -- Berthold Auerbach
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 15:26:08 -0700 From: "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: Gag me with chunky shit Message-ID: <004a01bd17cd$6df577e0$4b0d84d0@korgx3>
>Judging by your lunch selection, my guess is: You'd eat a bail of hay if >poured gravy on it.
Mmmmm.... Gravy....
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 4535 **************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Thu Apr 01 2004 - 18:09:36 EST