YTSEJAM Digest 4534
Today's Topics:
1) Re: It's a B!
by mpm_2112@ix.netcom.com
2) RE: The Mirror / Pups Chord
by Rocky Pulley <rpulley@pcdata.com>
3) No, you don't have perfect pitch.
by Christopher Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
4) key of the mirror/puppies
by MeatCakes@aol.com
5) Re: YTSEJAM digest 4533
by Riffinator@aol.com
6) Re: YTSEJAM digest 4533
by "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net>
7) Re: Oh where oh where* (Topic lost in murky Ytse-waters)
by AL <al@isd.net>
8) DT's Live Sound - A Question
by Keith Lambert <lambertk@felixstowe.rms.slb.com>
9) Gag me with chunky shit
by AL <al@isd.net>
10) CDs protection??
by CyberDuke <duskob@mol.com.mk>
11) Re: Rhapsody
by Peter Geerts <zaphod@ace.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.ac.be>
12) Re: Some quickie album reviews: Threshold / Anathema / Apocolyptica
by Peter Geerts <zaphod@ace.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.ac.be>
13) Burrrrrr. Digital@sub-Zero
by AL <al@isd.net>
14) Re: CDNow Promo OIAL CDs
by Mark Bredius <bredius@globalxs.nl>
15) LatM's Producer
by "Mc-Merc" <b.pulgar@rocketmail.com>
16) New Most Frequent Poster lists
by Mark Bredius <bredius@globalxs.nl>
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Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 00:47:06 -0600 (CST)
From: mpm_2112@ix.netcom.com
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: It's a B!
Message-ID: <1999121324376334@ix.netcom.com>
Just thought Id like to bring this up:
isnt Ayame Yuki (who says its a C chord) also the "classically trained"
musician who thought there was such a thing as a 12th note? I just
think thats interesting....
Matt
=====================================================
"A daily dose of eMpTyV "Following our instinct
will flush your mind not a trend. Go against
right down the drain." the grain until the end."
-Dream Theater -Metallica
=====================================================
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Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 02:45:44 -0500
From: Rocky Pulley <rpulley@pcdata.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: RE: The Mirror / Pups Chord
Message-ID: <C1FC52D409C4D111966600609794073C2272EF@pc10.pcdata.com>
> Yes, Mirror is in B, and yes JLMB is in B too.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 02:03:12 -0600 (CST)
From: Christopher Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: No, you don't have perfect pitch.
Message-ID: <199901020803.CAA18345@adam.enteract.com>
There is a discrepancy here. Puppies on Acid is available in many
forms, on a few boots and on the LIT video I believe. If someone is
saying that "The Mirror" (which is essentially the final form of Puppies
on Acid) starts on C, I'm sorry, but I can't agree with that. I have seen
it played, and while I don't have perfect pitch, I can tell when someone
is hitting an open chord WHEN I SEE IT. It is entirely possible that
Puppies on Acid was performed in C on some boot... but the Mirror is in B.
No doubt about it.
Someone:
> For all those who threw those insults at me for claiming the note for "The
> Mirror" was a C, I apologize. You're right, it is a B. As an
> explanation, "perfect" pitch (as my teacher calls it, "absolute pitch") is
> not always perfect. At least not the way that I get the notes. The way I
> explain it to others is that in my head I have a middle C whenever I need
> it, and I can reference notes to this pitch in my head to find out what
> they are through the intervals.
You don't have perfect pitch. Perfect pitch was described to me
by a friend who has had it since he started playing piano around 4 or 5
years old as "Hearing colors." Your ear hears notes the same way your
eyes see colors. So if you see a "Blue Green" it's comparable to hearing
a note in between D/D#.
I can reference tones against middle C, and the E above (I think
it's that E... the open high E string) from tuning and practicing scales
so much. That's what my school calls relative pitch, and that's a
necessesary skill to develop in ear training, according to my professor.
Right now, I can mentally reference the lowest note of the first chord
(and some of the harmonics) in "The Mirror" without hearing the cd. It's
just pitch memory.
That's twice in one week someone has mixed those two things up,
but there is ABSOLUTELY a MASSIVE difference betwee the two. You may have
some amount of Perfect pitch, and then just a great sense of relative
pitch, but if you're referencing between notes, you're not hearing the
note the way you see a color. You don't see Blue and then think "That's a
few wavelengths off from violet, and it's a ways away from green." You
see blue. That's how real perfect pitch works for notes. The timbre of
each note sounds different. Some are more smooth, some are more shrill,
or so it was explained to me.
> However, notes that tend to be close to C are tougher for me to find,
> because the pitch then tends to slide in my head a little.
That's a total symptom of relative pitch. You don't have that
sliding with colors, except at the very fringe, when you're clearly seein
a shade of orange as both red and orange or whatnot. You only confuse them
because they aren't each unto themselves distinct sounds, readily named.
Anyone can achieve this. I think the first time I noticed myself
doing this was with Megadeth's "Holy Wars" of all places. The chord they
hold after the first little riff is an E5 power chord. I can summon that
up right now, sing it, and tune my axe to it. I can transpose it to any
key after singing it, by thinking of either a major scale, or by thinking
of another musical memory... the theme to Jaws. That is one of the ways I
learned to sing half steps/chromatic scales.
Someone else:
> Just Let Me Breathe is in E major (4 sharps), but I believe an
> illustrious member of the Ytsejam community pointed out that the solo
> (with trade-offs) is in the E Phrygian mode.
Actually, I don't know who you want to consider to be a more
reliable source on this, but the very first discussion I ever had with
Sherinian was him asking me a DT trivia question to "prove myself" or what
not. He asked what scale the unison thing in JLMB (you're calling it a
trade off, but the keys and guitar are actually both playing the whole
time, and it's just panned in the mix) was, and I sat there and listened
and twiddled on my guitar for a while until I had isolated all of the
notes of the scale, and it was in Lydian Dominant (the 4th mode of
Melodic Minor). It's basically like playing the Lydian mode but with a
b7, or the Mixolydian mode with a #4 (that's how I see it on my neck)
I forget which key it was in, but I could go back and figure out if anyone
cares. Anyways, Derek said it was correct, and seeing as he plays the
thing, I am inclined to think it's not in Phrygian at all. Also, doesn't
it sound a little weird to play that unison deal in a minor mode?
Phrygian is one of the darkest sounds around... not entirely conducive to
the major sounds in that passage, if you ask me.
Someone else:
> bastards!), but here goes: Does cold weather affect CDs at all? I
> mean, are my CDs gonna get fucked up at all sitting in my car in 10
> degree temperatures for hours at a time?
Cold weather obviously makes cds cold, which will cause
condensation which will make your cds skip because the laser can't read
them. But other than that, they're just plastic, and you'd have to get
them cryogenically frozen to change the makeup of the plastic, I'd assume
(in which case they'd probably just crack). As long as it doesn't get to
-300 around you, I wouldn't worry. I have about 400 cds in my car right
now. Getting my car stolen... that's something to worry about! It
happened to one jammer already!
Someone else:
> im glad you asked. yes, i do have perfect pitch. and puppies on crack (
> acid hehehe ) does in fact start on a C major power chord progression (
> ok you non technoids, in other words " its a fucking C chord at first!
> " ) and then after listening further..there's a thick mix of a steady C
> note ( probrably JM ), versus a c chord and b played on the guitars.
> its neighboring half step chords.(B and C played at the same time) i
> call em "chords that sound kinda cool...if your into bad editing ( no
> offense ) "
Okay, any musically inclined Ytses should cock an eyebrow at this.
First off, perfect pitch doesn't enable you to hear things that other
people can't hear (it doesn't make you a better listener, nor does it
extend the frequency range your ear can detect). There is no chord or
note being held at the start of any version of Puppies on Acid that _I'VE_
ever heard. The only explaination I can think of is that it's tape hiss
or something you're trying to account for.
Next off, you're saying there's a C against a B. Now, let's look
at that from the Bafulock Holmes approach. What is C to the key of B? A
b2 or a b9. There is NO WAY that anyone in the band is aiming for that
harmony in that song, because the song is ENTIRELY tonal, and that
interval is at the hight of dissonance. Now, if we analyze from the
opposite angle, B is the major 7 of C. Hmmm... no. Perfect pitch or not,
I can hear the difference between major and minor, and this song isn't
gravitating around C Major, regardless of whether or not there is a C
being played there.
Neighboring half step chords? Chords that sound kinda cool if
you're into bad editing? We're not dealing with someone possessing an
inclination toward music theory here, are we? Could you, or would you
list the chords in this C Major power chord progression? I'd like to
access the video I have of Petrucci playing, and my 7 string and see
exactly what you're talking about.
> PS; There is no way those ads in guitar and bass mags can give you
> perfect pitch. you just know after a few years of hearing notes...and
> hey...YOWZA! you revognize em....and viola! youve got the gift of
> perfect pitch. try it on tone deaf friends!
Wrong. You haven't listened to the course. It's worked for one
of my friends. It's not a miracle, it's just a logical method for
developing a talent that just about everyone already has. It still takes
time, but the Burge course has refined the steps for that particular ear
training goal, in an attempt to accelerate the learning curve. I don't
know why you would deny that the thing could work... I mean, if you have
perfect pitch, you either got it a long time ago, and never had a reason
to sit through hours of boring tape exercises, or you learned it from a
course, in which case....cello! you're living proof that the tape course
should work.
- Chris
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 03:06:32 EST
From: MeatCakes@aol.com
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: key of the mirror/puppies
Message-ID: <23ea1b9d.368dd388@aol.com>
hey...
sorry if I'm a little late to contribute to this argument... BUT, puppies on
acid/the mirror is in B. I have the guitar book for awake, and I am looking
at the mirror's transcription right now, and it's in B. and just in case
there are still some non-believers, the book is edited by john petrucci
himself.
later
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 03:43:19 EST
From: Riffinator@aol.com
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4533
Message-ID: <95978e6a.368ddc27@aol.com>
In a message dated 99-01-02 01:39:44 EST, you write:
<< Sorry, I wasn't trying to insult you.
By the way, where do you live? To clarify this, I have some days off
next week. I'll just drop by to prove this to you because I can't
believe how someone would argue that the riff is in C. Just to prove
to myself that I am correct, I put 'The Mirror' in the CD player last
night and played along in 'C'. I have been known to make mistakes in
the past. I am correct on this matter, though. 'The Mirror' is in B.
T. 'B'eachler
>>
C'mon people! Even though there is only a semitone difference between B and
C....if you have your guitar tuned right you'll know that "The Mirror" is in
B, not C. If you don't believe that, then go buy a dang tuner! :-)
Drew
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 03:22:14 -0700
From: "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net>
To: <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4533
Message-ID: <001201bd1768$4dcfbee0$4b0d84d0@korgx3>
>C....if you have your guitar tuned right you'll know that "The Mirror" is
>B, not C. If you don't believe that, then go buy a dang tuner! :-)
And to continure the silly chord/note debate...
I believe the beginning chord structure for Lie is as follows:
A B B A (played once)
DABBA (repeat 6 times, said the monkey to the tree)
--KorgX3 is the Greeeeeeeen Man...
NP: TON - October Rust
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 05:27:05 -0600
From: AL <al@isd.net>
To: retaehT maerD <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Re: Oh where oh where* (Topic lost in murky Ytse-waters)
Message-ID: <368E0289.C3A2A31@isd.net>
Andrew wrote:
[Before the horses finally pulled his limbs apart, Al, The
[Ytse-Proctologist screamed forth:
BTW, work on your comprehensive reading skills, it's ProG-tologist. :)
> Andrew Coutermarsh signed of with:
>"In the New Year, hold your right hand out
>always in friendship, but never in want."
> -- Irish toast
{Ahh... Who's Irish Toast? :/
[If you really mean that... man, I feel for you.
[- Andrew
OK, here goes....
Ahh... = Butthead Mode-ON
/Al figures that Butthead has never been good with verbs.
I only grin in infrared.
-- AL... The Ytse-ProgtologistSwitchcraft Communications & Microsystems ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Outside of a dog, a book is probably man's best friend; inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 11:31:47 +0000 From: Keith Lambert <lambertk@felixstowe.rms.slb.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: DT's Live Sound - A Question Message-ID: <3.0.32.19990102113146.007244a4@felixstowe.rms.slb.com>
I was hoping that somebody who is knowledgeable about mixing live sound would be able to help me out with this one........?
Here's the background;
After seeing DT at their stunning London show in December 1997 I was left completely awestruck. I called a good friend of mine (John) who lives in the North of England. I told him that he must move heaven and earth to see the band as I knew that he already owned all of the albums and would give his right arm to see the band in a live situation. He quickly called another friend and bought two tickets for the band's Manchester show. The big day arrived and they walked into what John described as a "school gymnasium" type venue. The intimacy of the venue only increased the anticipation.
Rod opened the show and John described his set as "fantastic" with great sound. However, DT took the stage and the sound was just appalling; a big mush, bouncing off the walls and the ceiling. John stood next to the sound desk and even gave the sound guy a few choice "sort it out for fucks sake" kind of looks. Anyway, the sound remained the same throughout the gig and the show turned out to be a big disappointment. Now fortunately, John is wise enough not to let this experience diminish his enthusiasm for the band and he will go to see them again. I couldn't believe it when I called him to ask him about the gig. I expected nothing but the complete 'thumbs up'.
Anyway, my questions are;
a. I realize that the acoustics of the venue are going to be a big part of this equation, but is the problem a volume related thing directly linked to the different 'set ups' used by the support and headline act (if indeed they are different)?
b. As the sound guy was obviously hearing exactly the same 'mush' as my friend throughout the show, is there no way of correcting (even partially) the live mix, despite the challenge of the venue's acoustics?
If I had put the amount of effort DT do into their show, I would be none too happy to have all that work completely ruined by what can only be described as 'crap' sound, given the fact that the support sounded just fine. Perhaps there's an expert out there (I know there is) that can provide the answers......
Cheers.....Keith.
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Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 05:54:47 -0600 From: AL <al@isd.net> To: retaehT maerD <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Gag me with chunky shit Message-ID: <368E0907.E4C1BA4@isd.net>
Korgenstein wrote: >Word of Warning. Avoid Campbell's Chunky Chicken Corn Chowder from now on.
Are you fucking high? Corn Chowder! YUK. Judging by your lunch selection, my guess is: You'd eat a bail of hay if someone poured gravy on it.
I'd rather use binoculars to stare at the sun. -- AL... The Ytse-Progtologist
Switchcraft Communications & Microsystems ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Still gagging after all these years" --Author withheld (Verb) <grin>
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Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 09:47:05 +0100 From: CyberDuke <duskob@mol.com.mk> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: CDs protection?? Message-ID: <368DDD09.3EABB915@mol.com.mk>
> Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 22:44:55 -0500 > From: Joe DeAngelo <jdeangelo@home.com> > > Does cold weather affect CDs at all? I mean, are my CDs gonna get > fucked up at all sitting in my car in 10 degree temperatures > for hours at a time?
Extend it: Does extreme HOT weather affects? Few days ago I entered into friend's house from the outside -20 degrees temperature and took out CD to play it to him! 'Cause of the temerature change the disc was foggy (logically) and it needed to get dry few seconds! But what if I put it immediately?
Flame-prevention: We're talking about extreme temperatures and longer periods! Geez, I think anything can melt down on a hot summer day if left in car on +40!!! :(
> I swear on tomorrow- If you take this chance- Our lives are this > moment The music, the dance- And here in this labyrinth- Of lost > mysteries I close my eyes on this night- And you're all that I see > - Savatage, from "Not What You See"
Awesome part!!!! :) --
CyberDuke _______________________________________________________ Home Page http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Gym/3466/ E-mail duskob@mol.com.mk ICQ# 17392722 _______________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 13:23:30 +0100 (CET) From: Peter Geerts <zaphod@ace.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.ac.be> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: Rhapsody Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.05.9901021320300.2882-100000@ace.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.ac.be>
On Wed, 30 Dec 1998, Luke Bateup wrote:
> There is one downside I found to this album - the narrated parts. > Ugggghh, they're terrible. Sir Jay Lansford (who sounds remarkably like > the voice of the Elven characters in WarCraft II) is probably the worst > choice for a narrator of a fantasy style story.
I agree with you completely. His performance is awful. I even wonder if he's a native english-speaker (although that 'Sir' thing, suggests he's British)...
Cheers
Zaphod
============================================================================== Peter Geerts *QUOTE* zaphod@ace.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.ac.be "HELP!" (The Beatles) ICQ: 13122363 Second Year's Political Sciences Student, Leuven University, Belgium President JVS Orion Mechelen Youth Astronomers Club, Belgium ==============================================================================
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Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 13:39:16 +0100 (CET) From: Peter Geerts <zaphod@ace.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.ac.be> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: Some quickie album reviews: Threshold / Anathema / Apocolyptica Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.05.9901021336570.2882-100000@ace.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.ac.be>
On Fri, 1 Jan 1999, Joe DeAngelo wrote:
> As good as I think this CD is, I'm really suprised that I don't ever > hear Threshold's name on the 'Jam (explanations anybody?). Also, does > anybody know any websites for these guys? Are their other CD's as good > as this one? For that matter, do they HAVE other CDs?
Yes, there's Wounded Land, Extinct Instinct and Clone. GET Extinct Instinct NOW!! Any praising word would be an understatement. Haven't heard Clone yet (it's only been released since a couple of months)... any reviews of it??
Cheers
Zaphod
============================================================================== Peter Geerts *QUOTE* zaphod@ace.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.ac.be "HELP!" (The Beatles) ICQ: 13122363 Second Year's Political Sciences Student, Leuven University, Belgium President JVS Orion Mechelen Youth Astronomers Club, Belgium ==============================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 06:49:04 -0600 From: AL <al@isd.net> To: retaehT maerD <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Burrrrrr. Digital@sub-Zero Message-ID: <368E15BF.E1102D24@isd.net>
Joe DeAngelo wrote: >Alrighty. Switching gears for a second, I've got a question. It may be >a stupid-ass question (and if so, feel free to flame me.... you >bastards!), but here goes: Does cold weather affect CDs at all? I >mean, are my CDs gonna get fucked up at all sitting in my car in 10 >degree temperatures for hours at a time?
I've never had a problem. There's no reason to. (short of sitting on one in sub-zero temperatures) Several of my CD's were exposed to -31F a few years back. However, the player may have some objections to operating at those temperatures. :)
=< -10 Degrees Fahrenheit = LCD (Liquid Crystal Display) Coma.
Most CD transport mechanism lubricants become Nordic-Epoxy at sub-zero temperatures.
Dead things stay fresh longer, too. Ask the folks just east of me in Wisconsin. (the state that brought you Ed Gein & Jeffery Dahmer)
Go Packers! <ESEG> Evil Shit-eatin' Grin
-- AL... The Ytse-Progtologist
Switchcraft Communications & Microsystems ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Outside of a dog, a book is probably man's best friend; inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 12:41:30 +0100 From: Mark Bredius <bredius@globalxs.nl> To: "'Ytsejam'" <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: CDNow Promo OIAL CDs Message-ID: <01BE365D.B9BBBEA0@172.152.dialin.mxs.nl>
Joel Timmins asked :
> Was the issue resolved about the "promo" OIAL CDs that CDNow was > sending out? Were they actually Promo copies, or were they just > misprinted?
I asked someone at Elektra about this twice. They supposedly had the "appropriate people looking into it", and would get back to me about it as soon as possible (that was two months ago).
I'm also still waiting to hear back from Elektra about the fucked up Brazilian release of "Once In A LIVEtime". Disc two only has 6 songs instead of 11. So (for now), if you are in Brazil, buy the import if you want to have all the songs. :-/
Mark Bredius _______________________________________________________ Under A Cyber Moon - The Official Dream Theater Website http://www.dreamtheater.net/ E-mail: itchy@dreamt.org *** Join the FREE weekly Dream Theater newsletter ! *** Send email to <uacm-subscribe@egroups.com> to subscribe
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Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 02:05:04 +1100 From: "Mc-Merc" <b.pulgar@rocketmail.com> To: "YTSEJAM" <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: LatM's Producer Message-ID: <001201be3656$8a0f52e0$f5e758cb@ld-bp>
Hi: Anybody knows who produced DT's 'Live at the Marquee'? And Magnum's 'Kingdom of Madness'? And Deep Purple's 'Concerto for Group and Orchestra' and 'Live in Japan'? Thx: Bernardo NP: Deep Purple-'Come Hell or High Water'
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Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 13:28:36 +0100 From: Mark Bredius <bredius@globalxs.nl> To: "'Ytsejam'" <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: New Most Frequent Poster lists Message-ID: <01BE365D.BE0E01C0@172.152.dialin.mxs.nl>
The new Most Frequent Poster lists are available at :
http://www.prognosis.com/itchy/indexdt.htm
Enjoy. :)
Mark Bredius _______________________________________________________ Under A Cyber Moon - The Official Dream Theater Website http://www.dreamtheater.net/ E-mail: itchy@dreamt.org The Official H Website -- http://www.hogarth.com/steve/ http://www.prognosis.com/itchy/uc/ Website Tips & Tools
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 4534 **************************
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