YTSEJAM Digest 4928
Today's Topics:
1) Re: Man, I'm starting to hate Spock's Beard now.
by drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
2) Re: Zero Hour
by drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
3) Loose Ends
by "Christopher W. Ptacek" <someone@prognosis.com>
4) king's X
by Matej Grginic <izolit@siol.net>
5) Re: Spock's, and how long can we keep this argument going
by Amanda Rosenblum <mildew@ucla.edu>
6) Club Latino
by Mar Vil <milmares@yahoo.com>
7) Myung playing the bass
by "mikel@alphalink.com.au" <mikel@alphalink.com.au>
8) Christian Music (sorry)
by "mikel@alphalink.com.au" <mikel@alphalink.com.au>
9) Korg vs. Kurzweil
by "Rajkai Peter" <peter.rajkai@mtt.hu>
10) Salvation on the radio waves in MN
by Dave Peterson <glyde@hotmail.com>
11) DT info
by Michael Zachariadis <mzahar@cc.uoa.gr>
12) much love
by Dave M Klint <davek@csh.rit.edu>
13) Levin on LTE2
by CyberDuke <duskob@mol.com.mk>
14) prog labels
by CyberDuke <duskob@mol.com.mk>
15) JP improv skills
by CyberDuke <duskob@mol.com.mk>
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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 22:38:56 -0700
From: drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: Man, I'm starting to hate Spock's Beard now.
Message-ID: <199906220538.WAA14704@gms.gmsnet.com>
Before being sacrificed upon the altar..., "Korg Ecksthrey" thus begged:
>
>>harmony. That's not quite the norm. All sarcasm aside, using "Christian
>>music" in that light A). is a bash at several DT songs, and B). is an
>>attack on Christians if you're using it as a derogatory remark. So yeah,
>
>So what is the point you're trying to get across, Chris? Spock's isn't good
>enough for God? There's a guy I work with who keeps trying to force
>Christian music on me, and I obligingly listen for a few minutes to humor
>him, but I can understand Trent's statement. I didn't read it as a slag to
>Christian music (even though I do the same all the time). He explicitly
>mentioned the >vocals< made it remind him of Christian music. It's the same
>as any person hearing an accordian in a song and going "That sounds Jewish,"
>or hearing flamenco guitar and saying "That sounds like gypsy music." I
As I was walking by, I saw this cow which had, KORG LICKS HERE stamped on it's
ass... this is just pure generalization, one mans pita is another mans
Deluxe Burrito Del Grande.
>
>The biggest problem with this SB argument is that the anti-SB faction is way
>out-arguing the pro's. I think it's funny. Whereas the anti's are offering
>legitimate supportive arguments to their cases, the pro's are pretty much
>all spouting, "You're wrong! You're all so wrong!" "Respect my
>authoritye!" *whack in knee with nightstick* *garotte with a bass E-string*
Are you reading the same arguments?
-The Doc
-- ------ drkhoe@gmsnet.com -------------- ++++++ ---------------------- ///// http://progmetal.gmsnet.com ----------------==== Unix systems - C/C++ video game engine development =><=============== Administration ===================== Intranet/Internet Engineering =================------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 22:40:15 -0700 From: drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh) To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: Zero Hour Message-ID: <199906220540.WAA14729@gms.gmsnet.com>
Before being sacrificed upon the altar..., Diablo6491@aol.com thus begged: > > > > I've been searching for this CD and I can't seem to find it anywhere, >somebody help me out? If you haver this Cd and would like to sell it or if >you know of a palce, other then "the Arena" that has this CD, lemme know? >The Arena has it but its out of stock . . . > >RaY > > >-I believe I believe-
Try the official webpage: zerohour.simplenet.com
-The Doc
-- ------ drkhoe@gmsnet.com -------------- ++++++ ---------------------- ///// http://progmetal.gmsnet.com ----------------==== Unix systems - C/C++ video game engine development =><=============== Administration ===================== Intranet/Internet Engineering =================
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 00:58:08 -0500 From: "Christopher W. Ptacek" <someone@prognosis.com> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Loose Ends Message-ID: <007801bebc74$35776d40$87bbfea9@madstation>
> From: "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net> > Subject: My final word.
> > People aren't machines that aren't supposed to react at all > > Yah, but what amazes me is the collective/selective thinking that revolves > around this list. I think the >only< thing that should be assumed on this > list is that everyone here likes Dream Theater. Obviously, there are many > people who think otherwise.
Yes, as this thread exemplifies, I think you all have all of the same cds as I have, and I think you all like exactly what I like, right down to bypassing the sandwich making routine on occasion to put a chunk of cheese on a slice of bread and squeeze it into a weird cheese/bread snack conglomeration. Chuck, you're full of shit.
> People take it so damned offensively when > someone bashes a band or idea that they like.
People get really high and mighty if they get into an argument a little late and don't have to risk making any of their own points.
>That's their right, but they > have >no< right to call that person a fuckhead or asshole or whatever the > hell
I tossed a name or two in direct response to name tossing. You may want to pretend you're above all of that, but you're not going to pull trent up there with you, pal. And at least I had the courage to apologize for my lapse of maturity there.
> just because his ideas differ from theirs.
More bullshit. You know exactly why I responded as I did. I don't care who or what you like, as should be evidenced by my refusal to get involved in the Ben Folds Five discussions on this list. I got involved because I thought that the original post was insulting, and it pissed me off.
> Sometimes I wonder if this > could ever be a cultivated mailing list somewhere where people have a > sense of humor, can speak their mind, and people will respect each other's > opinions.
You know, you post on occasion and make some funny jokes, but you ALWAYS end up pretending to be Luke Skywalker on a battle against the dark side of the force. Your twisting of words, and accusing others of saying things that they have not (all of your trash about the SB people acting in one way or another) and your ignorance of any response to your posts which you can't wash away with less than 30 seconds of auto-pilot righteousness is at least as insulting as any expletive in the book. You are no better than any one of us.
> From: Jose Enrique Ralat Ballester <jralat@coqui.net> > Subject: Re: Musings about Myung
> I must agree with Matt. If you listen closely to DT songs you hear how > brilliant Myung's work is. DT IS A BAND. That's why you don't hear > Myung soloing all the time.
So Petrucci takes a solo break at a live show, and shows off some chops. Portnoy does too. Derek even had a thing going on before LitS. Why isn't there EVER something like this from Myung? My conclusion is that this is because he simply isn't that innovative in that respect.
> His greatness lies in the ability he has to be as one with the drums and > lay the foundation of a song. As a Bass player, I can say that anybody > can have speed, hell even I can play fast, but it takes a lot of work and > practice to master the grooves and low end playing, which Myung does > great.
Playing fast is not a necessary component of great musicianship, but a lack of ability in that area represents a limitation. Playing fast all the time IS a crutch, but playing fast POORLY is just as bad. Anyone can play fast. Just because one can play fast does not mean one has good technique. I do not believe John Myung has good technique. This ends up making me look like my whole idea here is to knock Myung, who I often enjoy listening to... it's not. My purpose here is to offer that he's not what whoever it was was trying to paint him to be. I'm sorry it's blown up to such a big deal.
> Myung solo's in the songs, he does tapping, he does harmonics, he plays > chords and is extremely fast. To think that he is the least that has > improved is probably due to the fact that you don't listen close enough > to the bass lines, because I personally think that Myung's bass lines give > some sense and body to DT's songs.
Which solos are you referring to? You have got to give me a break here. A). I have listened to his bass lines as close as anyone can need to in order to understand them. I have taught them to my bass students. I'm not alone in my sentiments about Myung, and you guys would be mighty interested to hear who shares these opinions... though I haven't the right to divulge the names. B). AGAIN, I have NOT KNOCKED his ability to write a bass part, or to write a melody. I started this solely speaking in terms of overall musicianship and the ability to solo.
> Anyway, what I saw and heard from the instructional video proves > to me what an incredible abilities he has and what speed and Feeling > he has. He is my favorite player.
That is fantastic and I would not try to dissuade you of that. I'm just countering a silly thing that was said some time ago.
Partha: > just knowing how to use a computer ain't no frickin' guarantor > of success in the field of picking music.......
Well, then it was an irresponsible purchase on this guy's part to assume that he'd hear shred or heaviness or lack of "Christian" vocal harmony. How many posts did trent send asking questions about Spock's Beard? How many people mailed trent publicly or privately misleading him into believing that Spock's was the next DT?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:57:47 +0200 From: Matej Grginic <izolit@siol.net> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: king's X Message-ID: <376F25DB.A3E3E82@siol.net>
>Unfortunately, I also got a King's X CD, their greatest hits one, based >on jammer enthusiasm for these guys. I was dissapointed, and hardly >listen to the album, EXCEPT for one of the unreleased tracks - Over My >Head - which I think must be from a different band or something, because >that song is wicked good.
Well King's X aren't your usual prog metal band :) But they'r definately prog-something hehe :) If you liked Over my Head, do give a listen to their last album Tapehead. It has three or four kickass songs, the slow ones kick ass too, but most people just don't know it yet :) Give them another chance and listen carefully, they'll sweep you off your feet. And most importantly, DO go see them perform live if you get a chance...
Matej, wearing his King's X T-shirt :)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 23:00:34 -0700 From: Amanda Rosenblum <mildew@ucla.edu> To: "ytsejam@ax.com" <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: Spock's, and how long can we keep this argument going Message-ID: <376F2682.5B0215E5@ucla.edu>
> Do you have any idea how many > people e-mailed me privately to tell me I suck b/c I > don't like SB? Funny, I also proclaimed my dislike of Spock's Beard, and the only mail I got was from Lisa telling me that the tour wasn't cancelled. I guess it's all in the way you say it.
> I would > compare their VOCAL harmonies at times to the Dead, at times to the > Beatles, and most of all. to Yes. Hmm, maybe that's the problem. I haven't heard too much Yes, but I don't remember what i did hear, so I must not have been impressed. Same with the Grateful Dead. As for the Beatles.. they have some really cool songs, but I still prefer the Oasis cover of "I am the Walrus" to the original. I think I have now made the most blasphemous statement of all time on the jam.
> Also, is the accordian a traditional Jewish instrument? Not really, but have you ever heard klezmer music? it's really neat, especially when I heard Itzhak Perlman (spelling?) play with the Klezmatics. I don't speak a word of Hebrew though. I'm pretty non-Jewish for a chick who's last name is Rosenblum.
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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 23:18:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Mar Vil <milmares@yahoo.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Club Latino Message-ID: <19990622061807.4805.rocketmail@web118.yahoomail.com>
A los interesados de ser parte de un club no oficial en espa=F1ol se les invita a visitar las siguientes p=E1ginas para obtener mayor informaci=F3n: www.venskies.com www.deja.com/~venskies
Gracias.
_________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 16:51:35 +1000 From: "mikel@alphalink.com.au" <mikel@alphalink.com.au> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Myung playing the bass Message-ID: <376F3276.44877881@alphalink.com.au>
I like what this one article or review said about Myung. It was something like he was the one who stopped Petrucci and Portnoy from flying off into space in opposite directions. Kind of made me think what it would be like if we had Myung doing the same stuff that the others were doing with a million notes per second and chromatic runs and other over the top stuff. Somehow I think that would be just a bit too much (although come to think of it that might be cool for a while)
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Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 16:32:44 +1000 From: "mikel@alphalink.com.au" <mikel@alphalink.com.au> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Christian Music (sorry) Message-ID: <376F2E0B.E72BC902@alphalink.com.au>
> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1993 09:34:34 -0600 > From: "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net> > To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> > Subject: Man, I'm starting to hate Spock's Beard now. > Message-ID: <004e01b80249$b5a5d1a0$0201010a@chuck.meserver.com> > > >harmony. That's not quite the norm. All sarcasm aside, using "Christian > >music" in that light A). is a bash at several DT songs, and B). is an > >attack on Christians if you're using it as a derogatory remark. So yeah, > > So what is the point you're trying to get across, Chris? Spock's isn't good > enough for God? There's a guy I work with who keeps trying to force > Christian music on me, and I obligingly listen for a few minutes to humor > him, but I can understand Trent's statement. I didn't read it as a slag to > Christian music (even though I do the same all the time). He explicitly > mentioned the >vocals< made it remind him of Christian music. It's the same > as any person hearing an accordian in a song and going "That sounds Jewish," > or hearing flamenco guitar and saying "That sounds like gypsy music." I > dunno how much Christian music Chris has actually heard, but everything this > guy at work brings in oozes vocal harmonies left and right (in stereo!). > It's all really good, imo, except I'm about the most anti-religious person > on earth, and can't stand listening to it for theocratic reasons. Trent > simply was comparing SB and Christian music via the harmonies contained > within both. If there was any criticism toward Christians as a whole in his > initial post, I fail to see where it was. As far as a bash at DT, you are > simply broadening the subject in an attempt to gather more people to support > your viewpoint, which is completely unrelated to the original discussion and > a fallicy in itself.
alrite without turning this into an argument on Christianity, I have to do some defending here. Whilst I am not Christian, recently I have gone from being pretty anti-religion to acceptance on a more intelligent level than you seem to take. For a start, there is not really such a thing as Christian music. Pretty much all classical music was written in a Christian context- hell, the whole western music theory (you know with staves and octaves) started with the Monks putting music to their hymns and developed wholly in church. A friend of mine is also always giving me Christian tapes and the stuff on them ranges from classical hymns, to gospel blues, to pop, to metal and into basically any other genre possible. This is not all just obscure weird shit by the way, but fairly popular stuff that is happening within and outside Christian culture. Vocal harmonies has nothing instrinsically to do with Christianity. It is merely one aspect of a particular style that is sometimes used in churches. I could equally well use this argument to put down the organ, classical piano, Christmas or gothic architecture (pardon spelling errors).
Even so, I don't particulary like Spock's Beard. Cheese is something I put up with in most prog, but this is just a bit too cheesy.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:18:02 +0200 From: "Rajkai Peter" <peter.rajkai@mtt.hu> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Korg vs. Kurzweil Message-ID: <376F38AA.B19D3C0@mtt.hu>
> > You can do it on a Kurzweil. But the thing is, that you can't pull it > > up as some preset (which I imagine most of Derek's unique sounds came > > from). > > Guillory told me that he once asked Derek about his patches, and > Derek blew him off. It was in the context of saying "I'm not sure how > Derek gets some of his sounds." Guillory is another Trinity mofo. It's > very much a lead player's board.
I had the luck to play on Derek's Trinity but I haven't found any unique sound that was not so similar to my Trinity's presets. He told me he usually didn't go through the "programming", one of his friends at Kord did all that work. However Jordan is totally a "keyboard programmer".
> > So far, I've only ever seen Jordan play on one keyboard. I look at > > Derek and Kevin . . . stacks of keyboards. Of course, I do like the > > I think the reason Kevin and Derek use multiple boards is likely > because they perhaps feel that no one board can do all they want it to > do, though it could be the patch switching glitch mentioned about the > Trinity. Jordan would seem to be making a different statement, but to my > ears, his sounds do fall a bit short. Opinion, so nbd.
Don't forget, that Kevin has a K2000 since he left DT. I believe he will use just that (or a K2500) on his future shows... What I hate in Trinity, when I switch to another patch, the previous one is going to mute in the same second. I wonder because Korg has already made keyboards in the past that were not doing that.
Cheers, Peter
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Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 00:24:31 PDT From: Dave Peterson <glyde@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Salvation on the radio waves in MN Message-ID: <19990622072431.79938.qmail@hotmail.com>
What up, y'all?
Just a quick note to all ye jammers that there actually IS a radio station that's just as "underground" as us. In the Minneapolis/St. Paul metro area, there's a station (albeit a weak one) that plays the following stuff during a very specific time of night every week:
Devin Townsend (Infinity, SYL and Ocean Machine) The Gathering Lacuna Coil Therion Liquid Tension Experiment Gordian Knot Porcupine Tree
..and TONS of other stuff I've never even heard before.
The show is called "The Root of all Evil" and consists of about 4 hours of BLAZINGLY brutal death metal, followed by an hour or so of "The Root of the Not-So-Evil" which contains (among many others) the above bands. I'm amazed each week at the stuff this guy plays that is in my collection! Anyway, e-mail me if you want to know the station and times.
- Dr. Teeth
_______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
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Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:47:46 +0300 From: Michael Zachariadis <mzahar@cc.uoa.gr> To: Ytsejam List <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: DT info Message-ID: <376F3FA1.A2901585@cc.uoa.gr>
Hi there jammers
This is not a flame---This is not a flame---This is not a flame---This is not a flame---This is not a flame
OK now that we got through that let me inform Trent (cybertrent@yahoo.com) about some things about DT that seems to be ignoring. Well Trent first of all never, ever say that I&W was a good or a pretty good album. I think that 99.9% of the ppl here believe in their hearts (including me) that I&W is THE ALBUM. The one that set the basis for prog metal and what came after it. If it wasn't for this album I don't think that we good discuss today for Dali's Dilemma or Lemur Voice and and the rest of the great bands. IMHO DT have never made a better album than that. But the most important thing that you obviously don't know (cause I know very well that likes and dislikes are of personal taste, and of course you don't really care if I find I&W better than ACOS or anything else, as long as you have a personality and can make your own decisions about what you like most) is that I&W is not their first album, it's the second. The first was "When Dream and Day Unite" back in 1989. I won't tell you to RTFFAQ, but check the official DT site http://www.dreamtheater.net to learn more about the band, if you are a fan as you say.
> >Anyway, I was impressed >with ACOS as a song and a CD and I&W was a pretty good >album, for a first album and everything. >
And a friendly advice to Andrew Coutermarsh: START DELETING
Mike
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Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 04:23:06 -0400 From: Dave M Klint <davek@csh.rit.edu> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: much love Message-ID: <199906220823.EAA17613@mcp.csh.rit.edu>
So Ive been in paris now for about 4 days, and I've already met two DT fans, and last night at the Fete de la Music There was a guy covering a lot of Megadeth and tunes off of I&W. Back in the states, I couldn't even find a person who had heard of DT. Why is Europe so much cooller than the US?
So, are there any Paris jammers out there? I need someone to show me around this town.
-davek
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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:10:51 +0200 From: CyberDuke <duskob@mol.com.mk> To: "ytsejam@ax.com" <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Levin on LTE2 Message-ID: <376E8E3B.5222308B@mol.com.mk>
While the man is nuts for sure, I think the bass can't be heard very much on the LTE1! :(
How about the LTE2, can he be heard loud and clear?
Interesting event: I went in our town's (and probably country's) only original CDs store .. I know the owner (a bit older guy) quite well, ain't much good music fans around here anyway. I went with the intention to show him som,ew stuff, projects I found on the net and maybe he'll decide to bring some of that here! I KNOW he likes this kinda music so ... what the heck! I also brought LTE1, BLS and Magellan - TOW CDs for him to play 'em! He went nuts! :) He never heard of them before but he loved it! After he listened the CDs he said "OK, so let's bring on Magna Carta here!" :) He said he'll check thwe site the same night, ... so we'l see! This dude is also organising gigs in Skopje and he asked about brinign LTE playing in Skopje! :) He was serious, but I replied that it's not possible. "Why, you think they're too big names?" on which I said "Of course, plus it's a project thing so they don't do gigs very much!" Was I wrong? :) I wish! Anyway, this dude knows his job, so ... I dunno, ... how these things are being done, we can give it a try at least?!? -- CyberDuke ________________________________________
"Lisa, get away from that jazzer!" - Simpsons ________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:21:00 +0200 From: CyberDuke <duskob@mol.com.mk> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: prog labels Message-ID: <376E909C.D2F56283@mol.com.mk>
> From: Compadre32@aol.com > Subject: The Progressive Label > > Besides all this B.S.----FUCK LABELS. I just wish music stores > would have all their music in alphabetical order instead of > by what they believe that particular music should be labeled as.
Yeah! I always thought this too! How can art be labeled anyway??? :( There isn't a store that doesn't make moronic mistakes with placing CDs. I mean, finding Brand X on the pop shelf??? :( The punks obviously thought of that because of Phil Collins name but who can blame them? 90% of the folks are not aware how good drummer this dude is, or that once upon a time there was this band BRAND X, which is one of the best jazz rock/fusion IMHO? -- CyberDuke ________________________________________
"Lisa, get away from that jazzer!" - Simpsons ________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:00:53 +0200 From: CyberDuke <duskob@mol.com.mk> To: "ytsejam@ax.com" <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: JP improv skills Message-ID: <376E8BE5.37938833@mol.com.mk>
I don't like the OIALT solo, because I know JP can play with more brain. That solo is plain shred and as far as I'm concerned, the Live in Tokyo solo will beat OAILT one always!!!
Seems like, since it was live album, he wanted to show what he's capable of doing. :( But I don't know how much he's bad in improvising, ... LIT solo seems pretty much all improvisation. Especially the bluesy, jazzy part, which I LOVE! Although the whole rhythm section and mood seems to be previously decided, 'cause even though it's a jam over characteristc riff, JM changes his lines as Mike develops the rhythm in other direction, which is impossible to do instantly in a jam. IMHO, I would prefer him doing that kind of solo jammmings and not "mindless" shred like on OIALT! :) -- CyberDuke ________________________________________
"Lisa, get away from that jazzer!" - Simpsons ________________________________________
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 4928 **************************
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