YTSEJAM Digest 4927
Today's Topics:
1) Zero Hour
by Diablo6491@aol.com
2) Re: A few things
by trent <cybertrent@yahoo.com>
3) Re: Christian Rock that kicks Satan's ass.
by Michael Pomerleau <mpomerle@mail1.nai.net>
4) My spiel on the members
by Thor Bremer <odinson9@hotmail.com>
5) Jordan Sounds
by "Christopher W. Ptacek" <someone@prognosis.com>
6) Re: Spock
by Phil Carter <phil@usefulware.com>
7) Myung
by "Christopher W. Ptacek" <someone@prognosis.com>
8) Re: My spiel on the members
by JamesAhab@aol.com
9) Oh Holy Night
by Compadre32@aol.com
10) DEFENSE>>>>DEFENSE
by J C <outlander28@hotmail.com>
11) To Chris/not Amanda or anyone else...is that clear enough?
by J C <outlander28@hotmail.com>
12)
by J C <outlander28@hotmail.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 00:24:27 EDT
From: Diablo6491@aol.com
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Zero Hour
Message-ID: <6acf57a6.24a069fb@aol.com>
I've been searching for this CD and I can't seem to find it anywhere,
somebody help me out? If you haver this Cd and would like to sell it or if
you know of a palce, other then "the Arena" that has this CD, lemme know?
The Arena has it but its out of stock . . .
RaY
-I believe I believe-
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:36:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: trent <cybertrent@yahoo.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: A few things
Message-ID: <19990622043649.27096.rocketmail@web507.yahoomail.com>
--- "Christopher W. Ptacek" <someone@prognosis.com>
wrote:
> In any case, I do apologize to Trent for being so
> overly
> vitriolic.
No problem mate. No hard feelings on my part. I'm
sorry too for stirring this stuff up. Sometimes I
should just keep my mouth shut, so to speak. Laterz.
===
*Trent
-- check out my mp3s --
http://members.xoom.com/el_trento
AIM- PageRiff
ICQ- #39449102
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 00:37:28 -0400
From: Michael Pomerleau <mpomerle@mail1.nai.net>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: Christian Rock that kicks Satan's ass.
Message-ID: <4.1.19990622003522.00997100@pop1.nai.net>
I got a couple of Impellettieri CD's a month ago - "Screaming Symphony'"
and Eye of the Hurricane" and that stuff is pretty cool!!!!!
Great Guitarist - Reminds me of Yngvwie (spelling??)
and Rob Rock has awesome vocals
Michael Pomerleau
E-mail: (Home) mpomerle@ct1.nai.net
(Work) michael_pomerleau@adc.com
Visit My Home Page at http://w3.nai.net/~mpomerle
"If a President of the United States ever lied to the American people, he
should resign." - Bill Clinton July, 1974
"No question that an admission of making false statements to government
officials and interfering with the FBI is an impeachable offense." - Bill
Clinton, ARKANSAS GAZETTE August 8, 1974; page 7-A
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:39:19 PDT
From: Thor Bremer <odinson9@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: My spiel on the members
Message-ID: <19990622043920.59026.qmail@hotmail.com>
All right. I'm sick of hearing about how so-and-so and this guy and that
guy are "the band." It's obvious where it's coming from. They keyboard
players are claiming that KevMo was the best. The bass players are claiming
Myung is the best. Whatever instrument a person plays is what they will be
listening for the majority of the time and won't be listening to the rest of
the band as much. The members of DT are the best in their field. But is
there really a true way to say that a guitar player is better than the
drummer when they are at that high of a level? No. When you kick that much
ass, it's impossible to say that one is better than another. Bands change
their members, ppl. Get the fuck over it. DT rules.
Thunder God Thor
ps. i'm a drummer, but i liked petrucci's guitar solo better than portnoy's
on the album.
Life is Good When Cheese is Plentiful
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 23:48:20 -0500
From: "Christopher W. Ptacek" <someone@prognosis.com>
To: <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Jordan Sounds
Message-ID: <005601bebc6a$74760740$87bbfea9@madstation>
> From: "Vaughn, Brandon" <VAUGHNB@CHIPOLA.CC.FL.US>
> Subject: Jordan's lead sounds
>
> You can do it on a Kurzweil. But the thing is, that you can't pull it
> up as some preset (which I imagine most of Derek's unique sounds came
> from).
Guillory told me that he once asked Derek about his patches, and
Derek blew him off. It was in the context of saying "I'm not sure how
Derek gets some of his sounds." Guillory is another Trinity mofo. It's
very much a lead player's board.
> and see how long it lasts. Try to be a 2 member band (like R&M) with
> _one_ keyboard and see how much it holds up.
I agree. But then Rudess isn't good at playing everything on one
board as a result of playing Kurzweil. That's part of his technique, and
even on a Kurzweil, switching patches and modifying things on the fly
while playing complex shit like he does, is not even remotely easy.
> So far, I've only ever seen Jordan play on one keyboard. I look at
> Derek and Kevin . . . stacks of keyboards. Of course, I do like the
I think the reason Kevin and Derek use multiple boards is likely
because they perhaps feel that no one board can do all they want it to
do, though it could be the patch switching glitch mentioned about the
Trinity. Jordan would seem to be making a different statement, but to my
ears, his sounds do fall a bit short. Opinion, so nbd.
> keyboards. One of things I didn't like about Derek's sound was that at
> times I couldn't tell if it was Petrucci. There is only one Petrucci,
I could generally tell, especially live, and I thought that was a
HUGE plus... not because it was a keyboard that could sound similar to a
guitar, but because it was such a totally fresh sound that I had never
heard before.
> I thought I saw an Eventide on the inside back of LTE2. I'm pretty sure
> that was it.
I haven't seen the pic yet, so I'm going to pray you're right,
considering that the alternatives would have him playing through a
Rocktron or Digitech preamp... a thought that a tonal elitist like me can
not bear! :) J/K
> point with Vai . . . yeah, you are right, Vai has always sounded like
> Vai. But you listen to Flexible versus post-Eventide, and you can't
> tell me you can't hear a difference. For one, the layered lead sounds?
> Or the weird etudes.
I only hear it making actual "in song" appearances mainly in
Passion and Warfare. I don't count the songs that are nothing but guitar
and Eventide, because those are dramatically different from most of Vai's
stuff. And he seems to my ears to move further and further away from that
sound. A lot of his layered lead sounds are Whammy pedal and delay, too,
as you know.
- Chris
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 00:48:27 -0400
From: Phil Carter <phil@usefulware.com>
To: A Pleasant Shade of Ytse <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Re: Spock
Message-ID: <4.1.19990622004302.00970f10@pop.usefulware.com>
Greetings ye 'jamanoids....
Trent, continuing to ignore what people have written:
>Okay, my final word on this subject that I'm sorry I
>started is thus-- how many people does it take to
>breathe down my neck? Do you have any idea how many
>people e-mailed me privately to tell me I suck b/c I
>don't like SB?
More proof that you AREN'T FUCKING PAYING ATTENTION.
I never said that you suck because you don't like SB. Your opinions on the
band are your own, and you're free to think what you want about them. I
don't agree with your opinions, but that's my business, and none of your
concern.
I said that you irritated me because you made inflammatory statements and
virtually ignored the remarks made in return, and jumped all over the
people who DARED to disagree with your almighty opinion.
If you can't stand the heat, DON'T MAKE INFLAMMATORY REMARKS. Hypocrite.
(Again).
cheers,
Phil
=========================================================
Phil Carter -- phil@usefulware.com
Official Glass Hammer website: http://www.glasshammer.com/
"Music expresses that which can not be said and on which it is impossible
to be silent."
-- Victor Hugo
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 23:56:38 -0500
From: "Christopher W. Ptacek" <someone@prognosis.com>
To: <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Myung
Message-ID: <005701bebc6b$9d664380$87bbfea9@madstation>
> From: "Giannotti, Nick" <GiannottiN@hanscom.af.mil>
> Subject: Spocks Beard/Myung
> Gaa! No offense taken, but I don't quite know how you come to your
> conclusions, or at least some of them. Sure, he doesn't take a meaningful
> solo unless it's on a B**r bootleg,
Which one? Not that jam Mike Swiped from Myung's video, right?
I'm not speaking from the vantage point of someone who can outplay him on
bass, but is it just me or is he flubbing notes on the solo at the end of
his video? His technique is very imprecise. And all this discussion has
been about is technique and soloing, not any other important part of
musicianship.
> but then again, I'm of the "Bassists
> shouldn't take solos" camp. That there is personal preference.
And for that. he is an excellent bassist. He does write good
bass lines and he is rhythmicly tight. I think my response was partially
due to what time I read that at, and partially because I don't think it's
right IMO, to put Myung on the top of the chain, and I figured I would
offer my reasoning behind that conclusion. It's somewhat akin to those who
assert that Les Claypool or Flea are the best bassists "in the world."
Both are decent (Les, I would go so far as to say is GOOD) but neither
would stand up to any real competition, even at the stuff they seem to
excell at. This is the case with Myung's technical prowess and his
ability to solo.
> sloppy? Really? Maybe in a live setting, I can somewhat give you that, but
> he's no sloppier than Petrucci or Sherinian on OiaL. Hell, everyone's
sloppy
> live except the London Philharmonic. :) He *IS* way overrated on the
Stick,
> but the thing is, he knows it and made that clear in interviews that he's
> just getting used to it.
Yes, in a live setting... I don't understand letting mistakes get
through the mix on a studio prog album, so yeah, that's what I'm talking
about. I would disagree with your OiaL comment, but I haven't listened to
it enough yet. I'm talking about my experiences seeing him play, and
watching that video. I also consider that "click" sound he gets with some
of his "pizz" attacks (but not all) to be sloppy technique, as it seems to
appear at random, and does dramatically detract from the tone (Gary Willis
of Tribal Tech explains a lot about the dynamics of right hand technique
on bass, and how it affects tone and precision... check out his vid and
some of his interviews). And I believe I beat you to the punch in
explaining his newness to the Stick. :)
> And I can only name two bassists that are leaps and bounds beyond
> him: Vic Wooten and Mike Manring. But they're leaps and bounds beyond
> everyone.
Not everyone. :) IMO: Gary Willis, John Patitucci, O'Teil,
Victor Wooten, Manring, Jaco, John Onder, Aldrete (I think I'm misspelling
that, but I'm referring to the dude from Racer X), Sean Malone, Bill
Dickens, Steve Bailey, Jimmy Earl, Jeff Berlin (though I hate to say it,
since he's the Yngwie of bass), Tony Franklin, Dave LaRue, Barry Sparks,
Skuli, Stu "Same Solo every time" Hamm, Billy Sheehan, Jimmy Johnson, etc
are all superior bassists.
Anybody will get called "The best bassist ever" by some fans of
the band. That's not necessarily bad, but I think it's likely due to a
lack of exposure.
> From: TEDESCO MATTHEW A <Matthew.Tedesco@Colorado.EDU>
> Subject: Musings about Myung
Now before we get into this, keep in mind that my original intent was
not to slag Myung, but to offer a counter point to a post which labeled him
as the best musician in DT, in multiple areas. That was the sum and total
of my purpose for getting into this.
> > WOWOWOW... how do you come to this conclusion? The E.T. finger
> > "Econony of motion is nothing to me" technique? The complete inability
to
> > take a meaningful solo?
>
> Myung once commented that he switched to the 6-string precisely because it
> afforded him greater economy. Given the demanding nature of the music,
> I'm not exactly sure in what ways he could be MORE economical....
Economical could be refering to anything. I was referring to his
"economy of motion." He doesn't take advantage of this concept in any way,
and as a result I believe he has imposed serious limits on what he is
capable of doing.
> > The guy is an excellent songwriter, and a good
> > bassist in the "behind the band" sense, but the only time he
meaningfully
> > takes the center is Metropolis, and only for like... a second. He's a
>
> Two possibilities here, and I think you're only acknowledging one. The
> first, the one you're offering, is that he only "meaningfully takes the
> center" for "a second" in one song is due to some limitation of his
> ability as a soloist. The second, and the one I find far more likely, is
> that he only steps forward once simply because he's composing his part
> towards the good of the song, which, most often, does not call for a
> blistering bass solo. His ability to solo, I think, is at least validated
> on his instructional video, in the closing jam with DS and MP.
I object to the way you do this, Matt, and we know this isn't the first
time we've had this type of argument. :) I'm not ignorant of the multiple
roles any player may take in a band. I'm not ignorant of the concept that a
bassist should sometimes hang back. In fact, I am quite sure that I
acknowledged his ability to play the traditional bass role. But is doing
that enough to justify saying that he's clearly a better musician than the
rest of the band? JP plays the standard guitarist role of rhythms and a few
effects and tricks, but he also plays leads, and he has improved massively
over the course of the band's history. Even if you don't like what he's
doing now, you would have to grant that. Myung has not changed much beyond
bass tones.
And I simply can not grant that the jam at the end of his video
validates him as a monster soloist. I was just incredibly underwhelmed by
his lines and his technique.
> > good bassist, but he's sloppy, has probably improved the least out of
all
> > the members since I&W and is WAY overrated on the Stick (which he'd
> > probably admit since he's rather new to it).
>
> OK, then, to the heart of Chris' 3 criticisms. Sloppy? Evidence, please.
> If there's one thing all that practice has afforded him, I think, it's an
> ability to play cleanly.
That video, and any live performance I've been to are the examples I
have. That click when the string is interrupted by some part of his bass
while he's playing anything fast. You know you've heard it. I question
your exposure to the instrument if you truly believe that that's a clean
bassist.
> Improved the least... well, spoken like a true guitarist. =) By saying
> "improved the least," I see you're acknowledging that they've all improved
> to some degree. Fair enough. So, the question... improved to what end?
You name how he's improved significantly in any sense since I&W or
Awake. I'll put that ball in your court.
> Depends on how you define the bassist's role, I suppose. Before, you
> mentioned that he was good in a "behind the band" sense. At the very
> least, particularly in the genre of music in which DT resides, the bass
> player should FUNDAMENTALLY play a supportive rhythmic role.
How in the world do you attribute this to the genre of prog metal?
Isn't this the most in your face, balistic genre of music in terms of
technical proficiency and creativity? This is the LAST genre in which the
bass should blend and go unnoticed.
> done in countless creative, challenging ways, obviously... but to me, and
> I'm sure to a lot of bass players, the lines he plays on FII are VASTLY
> improved beyond his finger-numbing exercises of WDADU & I&W. He's
> improved from writing flashy, fast basslines to playing the role of the
> quintessential bass player. Do I want to say he's improved MORE than
> anyone else in the band? No. But to say he has improved the least seems
> foolish.
You could call that improvement, or you could call that something else
entirely, depending on what you want from the band. I personally want to be
impressed in as many ways as possible when I see a band. Myung impresses me
with his writing when I buy an album, but once we're talking about a live
show, he's almost unnoticed.
Your only option with regard to your final statement would be to say
that LaBrie has improved the least, which is sort of a cop out because
vocalist abilities traditionally decline with age.
> The least criticism, and to me, the one that's the most inexplicable, is
> that he's overrated on the stick. You're way out of this, I think, was
> when you pointed out how he'd admit this, because he's new to the
> instrument. Still, that doesn't cut it at all. It shouldn't be a
> criticism at all, because NOBODY is overrating him on the Stick!
Bullshit. It was all the buzz on this list when FII came out and when
the tour opened up and they were playing NM. You can deny that all you
want, but that's a fact.
> or something like that? He plays it on one DT song, and shows up
> sparingly on Sean Malone's Gordian Knot project. To criticize his
> Stick-playing as somehow illustrating a limitation in his abilities as a
> bassist is entirely off-base. Entirely.
You and I both know why JM is on that disc. And the Stick comments play
perfectly logical roles in an argument that puts him as the best musician in
DT.
> To say, as some people have, that Myung is clearly the best bassist going,
> or the best musician in DT, is at best ignorant. Chris, though, your
> replies some pretty off-the-mark as well.
I think they're pretty much exactly on the mark, and I think I've
provided enough detail to back that up. To each his own.
- Chris
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 00:54:08 EDT
From: JamesAhab@aol.com
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: My spiel on the members
Message-ID: <c7835602.24a070f0@aol.com>
>< ps. i'm a drummer, but i liked petrucci's guitar solo better than
portnoy's on the album. ><
i'm a drummer and `something` of a guitarist, i didn't like either of them.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 00:58:20 EDT
From: Compadre32@aol.com
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Oh Holy Night
Message-ID: <1cfbcb81.24a071ec@aol.com>
I believe that Dream Theater must be a christian band too
i mean, shit, they did "cover" the christmas classic, "Oh Holy Night"
hahaha.....i hate how some bands have to restrict their musical/lyrical
potential by having such close-minded tunnell sights as confining yourself to
the christian persuation. same for the satanic thing (i guess)
;)
Compadre32
np: Acid Bath - "Pagan Terrorism Tactics"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 01:07:02 EDT
From: J C <outlander28@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: DEFENSE>>>>DEFENSE
Message-ID: <19990622050703.74689.qmail@hotmail.com>
I said:
you most certainly are being a FUCKIN' dick....you
come off like a fuckin' prick!
BE NICE ASSHOLE! :>
So Amanda bleets:
>It must be nice to be so much better than all of us. By the way, is >the
>"J C" for Jesus Christ?
If you want it to be then it is. Its actually my initials, smartass!
But as far as the above response goes...I made it quite clear who I was
talking to and I felt it would be better posted here than privately.
I was just making a point and once again someone missed it entirely. Am I
just too obscure in my meaning for you?
BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS THIS:
"BE NICE ASSHOLE" WAS A JOKE!
YA know ......saying "Be nice" then saying asshole?
I included a nice little emoticon [ ;> } just for the purpose that I would
not be misread and here I am explaining it to you.
But thats OK and no hard feelings...especially since I kinda thought we were
cool with each other.
Outlander ;>
Keep smiling Ytse-Jam!
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 01:37:06 EDT
From: J C <outlander28@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: To Chris/not Amanda or anyone else...is that clear enough?
Message-ID: <19990622053708.90381.qmail@hotmail.com>
Chris goes:
What's really cool about this post is that you said nothing, made
no point and just threw insults at me. See I like you, because that makes
you an easy target. You're a dude who comes brand new to the jam and tells
us all that we should play by different rules and that we should be nice...
and then you decide that no such rules apply to you. You're building up
quite a following.
Im not trying to build a following...are you?
And if you consider me a target then your intent is thusly revealed!
Im not telling people to play nice im just telling you that you came off
like a real asshole to that persons post and ....well,,,fuck it its a waste
trying to explain this to you...
This doesn't seem to make any sense. At least not as a rebuttal
to what you quoted. If you have no side in an argument, you shouldn't be
speaking.
I will do as I please...(at least while trying not to step on too many
toes....at the most not to crucify someone) Lighten up dude GEEZ
I think some therapy is needed here
But in that there was no argument and no side to take, you seem to be saying
that you don't ever have a side in an argument.
All I can say is learn to read (or read it again)
And my "fuckin' prick" doesn't come off. You might want to get yours
checked out by a doctor.
Didnt say it did....(so your twist of words here is ineffective at best)
And then we're all supposed to sit around and figure out what the
message is, which would clearly take years for my brain to accomplish since
I'm quite obviously your inferior!
Eureka! I think hes got it! (that was a joke)
HIGHLY improbable. :) If you have such an extensive vocabulary,
you might want to spell check it a bit.
No spel chekking rechoired---it was fine
And you know what post I was reffering to...if you really dont then dont
sweat it because trying to get some people to stop acting mean to others
when they only voice an opinion is like trying to pull fuckin' teeth with a
pair of tongs!
So just forget it and from now on i'll take your advice and just read while
you slam others and do like most have done on this list....and that's not
post at all.
You win Chris...you drove me away from a place where i thought i could
hook-up with intelligent music lovers (not just DT fans)
and the best I was hoping for was to make a few friends...but when you flame
1st (and Im not saying you specifically) then what am I to do but reply back
in the same fashion....yet at the same time im trying to make a point to not
be so rash with people and you say Im talking just as much garbage?
As I said above I apparently cannot explain this clearly enough to you
so I will not try to again...
this really sucks though...I was really starting to like it here
Outlander out
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 01:37:49 EDT
From: J C <outlander28@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Message-ID: <19990622053750.80160.qmail@hotmail.com>
In any case, I do apologize to Trent for being so overly
vitriolic. I am sure that it was a reaction to seeing a similarly flame
like response that Trent sent to the original attacker, as well as it being
4 AM when I wrote. I could have made my point without being so insulting
Starting to come back now eh?
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------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 4927
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