YTSEJAM Digest 4745
Today's Topics:
1) Andre out of Angra
by Sebast87@aol.com
2) Re: UAGM solo
by mpm_2112@ix.netcom.com
3) New Fusion
by A Drummer <metropolis1999@yahoo.com>
4) Bad Drummers?
by A Drummer <metropolis1999@yahoo.com>
5) Alcatrazz Guitarists
by A Drummer <metropolis1999@yahoo.com>
6) A few corrections
by Adrian79@aol.com
7) Midi, 4/4
by "Christopher W. Ptacek" <someone@prognosis.com>
8) hoon
by "Isaac Trumbo" <inferno_one@hotmail.com>
9) When Dream and James Unite
by "Todd Fostvedt" <tfostvedt@csu.org>
10) Re: Shannon Hoon
by "Brian D. Hayden" <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu>
11) re: 4/4 Time Sigs and maybe the Real Answer
by Bert Baldwin <rcb@vectorbd.com>
12) JLMB and the death of Shannon Hoon
by drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
13) Graham Bonnet
by Brian Hansen <bhansen10@yahoo.com>
14) Re: UAGM solo
by Tom Cox <lexine@rollanet.org>
15) Re: 6:00
by AyameYuki@aol.com
16) Re: JLMB and the death of Shannon Hoon
by Frank Benenati <fmb@frontierlogic.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:37:21 EST
From: Sebast87@aol.com
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Andre out of Angra
Message-ID: <f2440660.36ed5361@aol.com>
Hey!
There is a rumor that Andre Matos is going to leave Angra for Gamma Ray. Is it
just a rumor? Can anyone confirm or tell me that it is wrong ?
I just hope he will stay.
Sebast
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:48:57 -0600 (CST)
From: mpm_2112@ix.netcom.com
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: UAGM solo
Message-ID: <1999315132633241@ix.netcom.com>
<<WRONG! Unless I'm completely mistaken, I believe the solo to UAGM
starts in 11/4, then the big build up thing is in 7/4, *then* goes back
to 4/4 *when* the chorus comes back in again... not trying to bitch,
just clarifying... ;)>>
Actually, the part before the solo is in 11/4, then the guitar solo is in 4/4, and
the "Rush" sounding part after that is in 7/4 before going back into the 4/4 chorus.
Its probably cause its much easier for JP to take a solo in that "natural" feeling
time sig, and not having to worry about changing sigs, or odd ones. Not saying
he can't do a solo in an odd time sig, at the end of his instructional video, he takes
one in 5/4.
Matt
=====================================================
"A daily dose of eMpTyV "Following our instinct
will flush your mind not a trend. Go against
right down the drain." the grain until the end."
-Dream Theater -Metallica
=====================================================
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:06:03 -0800 (PST)
From: A Drummer <metropolis1999@yahoo.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: New Fusion
Message-ID: <19990315190603.5851.rocketmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com>
I have been enjoying the comments on the fusion genre (especially those
of Chris Ptack), and I thought I would throw in my $0.02.
The fusion of the 70s that really excited me was:
Mahavishnu Orchestra: Birds of Fire
Return to Forever: The Romantic Warrior
In the 80s these albums came along:
Tribal Tech: Dr. Hee, Spears, Nomad
Allan Holdsworth: I.O.U., Road Games, Metal Fatigue
Chick Corea Electric Band: Inside Out, Eye of the Beholder
(some may not consider these fusion).
And finally the 90s fusion worth listening to (IMHO) is:
Hellborg, Lane, Sipe: Temporal Analogs of Paradise, Time is the Enemy
Michael Shrieve: Two Doors (w/ Shawn Lane, and Jonas Hellborg)
Jonas Hellborg: Abstract Logic (w/ Koffi Baker, and Shawn Lane)
Smith, Gambale, Hamm: Show me what you can do.
Henderson, Smith, Wooten: Vital Tech Tones
Tribal Tech:
To me the 90s have been much better (as far as fusion goes) than the
80s. The 80s were filled with allot of GPR crap like the Rippingtons
and Special EFX. These bands took as many musical risks as Richard
Marx. They were pop bands without vocals. Fusion to me is aggressive,
powerful, technical and mind blowing. These musicians are at the top of
their game and creating music for the love of it (obviously not for
financial gain).
Other musicians to keep an eye on are:
Virgil Donati, Brett Garsed, Greg Howe.
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:45:14 -0800 (PST)
From: A Drummer <metropolis1999@yahoo.com>
To: The Ytsejam <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Bad Drummers?
Message-ID: <19990315194514.29096.rocketmail@ web605.yahoomail.com>
Here goes my opinion (for what it is worth):
Lars is a decent drummer. He used to "show off" more in the old days,
and I think that is why many considered him a great drummer. Many think
that Lars was the best double bass drummer in the 80s. In my mind there
is no doubt that Charlie Benante and Dave Lombardo ran circles around
him. Other great double bass drummers include Paul Bostaph, Virgil
Donati, and Vinnie Paul.
Lars' playing on the last three albums or so is more minimalist. It
fits the songs rather well. The problem is... I don't like the songs.
So, I don't like the drumming. I never thought he was an awful drummer
but he needs help keeping time. I saw him live twice and the tempo
fluctuated as much as Oprah's waistline.
Now onto Ringo...
Ringo was (and is) a pretty bad drummer. I guess you could say that he
is the luckiest man alive. He was so bad that the Beatles brought in
many other drummers to play on their albums. Bernard Pudie was one
drummer that comes to mind. He played on several Beatles hits. On "I
want to hold your hand" I believe that Ringo only plays tambourine.
Another drummer from England (not a famous one) who now resides in New
Jersey was brought in to play on this big hit.
If you want to talk about shitty drummers, you need to start with Fred
Coury of Cinderella. That guy never played a single measure of an album
(at least for the 1st 2 Cinderella albums) because he was so bad that
the producer decided to bring in Denny Carmasi and Cozy Powell to play
on those albums.
Come to think of it, I am very upset with all these bad drummers.... it
is time that someone gave me the big gig!!! :)
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:54:32 -0800 (PST)
From: A Drummer <metropolis1999@yahoo.com>
To: The Ytsejam <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Alcatrazz Guitarists
Message-ID: <19990315195432.9571.rocketmail@web609.yahoomail.com>
Someone on the list asked Which Alcatrazz album or song did Malmsteen
and Vai both play on (together)?
The answer would be none. Vai took over the guitar slot after Yngwie
left. There was also another guitarist that took Vai's slot in
Alcatrazz, but his name escapes me right now. I know he also played in
another band with a female singer that opened for Van Halen on the OU812
tour (not the monsters of rock tour). I know that this is pretty vague,
but it is all I currently can remember.
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:10:11 EST
From: Adrian79@aol.com
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: A few corrections
Message-ID: <445c15cd.36ed6923@aol.com>
>Because if you're going to say
>"playing any notes that weren't on the record" (which is what the
>tone of your post implies), I'd suggest you listen to KevMo's "serious
>mistakesstlg on L@TM, like when he plays those kick-arse extra bits
>at the start of PMU.
I would never ever call musical improvisation or individual creativity a
mistake! That's what I expect a band to do live. If they just play the record
versions...that's not LIVE.
>So provide some specific examples about how DS stuffed it up or SHUT UP.
Yet that specific event was different. DT played some extra parts in UAGM as
they usually do. Anyhow a few measures more than on the record. DS somehow
didn't seem to know of this, at least he continued to play on and as the rest
of the band played something different he notice that what he was playing
didn't fit anymore so he just stopped and waited until he could join the rest
again. And later he messed up some chords. He prob. only had a bad day.
>WRONG! Unless I'm completely mistaken, I believe the solo to UAGM
>starts in 11/4, then the big build up thing is in 7/4, *then* goes back
>to 4/4 *when* the chorus comes back in again... not trying to bitch,
>just clarifying... ;)
If I'm not completely mistaken the part from 4:38 - 5:30 which I call the solo
part is completely in 4/4 the 7/8 part comes directly after this (the keyboard
solo). Then the chorus comes back again. The 11/4 part is before the guitar
solo. just clarifying...;)
Adrian
"We can learn from the past. But those days are gone. We can hope for the
future. But there might not be one." -A Change Of Seasons
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:29:28 -0600
From: "Christopher W. Ptacek" <someone@prognosis.com>
To: <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Midi, 4/4
Message-ID: <002801be6f22$880ee000$9bc5fea9@z979811wheat.farm.niu.edu>
>From: "Indii" <indii@twave.net>
I apologize if it seemed that I was making fun of you. I was just
screwing around with my response. It didn't seem right to just respond with
"Steve Vai."
General comment:
>Indeed 4/4 is a sort of 'genetic', that's why it's so easy for people
>to dig that stuff!!! But again, it has to do with western people,
Until some scientist has isolated and mapped said genes responsible for
4/4, it seems like folly for any of you to credit it to a genetic source.
That's like someone saying "Nine Inch Nails?! Anyone could do that music...
all you need is a computer and a microphone!" It's not generally very
helpful to pontificate on concepts that you just don't know anything about.
My apology in advance if this is a theory on which any of you have any
significant backing
4/4 can be as complex as any time sig. 17/16 can be as simple as any
time sig. It depends ENTIRELY on how it's being performed. I know a
drummer who can consistantly make anyone lose the 1 in just about any time
sig. I'm expecting to witness something similarly disturbing tomorrow when
I see Paul Wertico play here at NIU. :)
Just to recap: odd time sigs are no harder than even ones by default.
It all depends on what's being done in that time sig, which is why "the
ability to play in odd times" is sort of a silly critereon for any musician
being talented, when any non musician can play in any time sig, without
musical training. Don't believe me? Count from one to seven evenly, and
when you get to seven, begin again back on one. Congratulations... 7/8, or
7/4, or 7/16 or whatever you, as the maestro composer elite, want to call
it.
>From: Kevin <kvill@flash.net>
>To: YtseJam Mailing list <ytsejam@axnet.net>
>Subject: ELP Tribute cd for auction
This guy is specifically TRYING to find a way to stop Magna Carta from
giving out so many promos. Not TOO selfish, is it?
>>Name a drummer in rock music who has had a bigger influence.
>>Ringo was no technical god, but he was on par with guys like Bonham
>You just did, fool! John Bonham, RIP. Ringo did diddly-squat compared
>to JB. And it's interesting, I find: okay, so the Beatles were greater
sonic
>pioneers than Zeppelin, and yet if you put on ANY Zeppelin album,
>it's aged far better than ANY Beatles album. If someone put "When I'm
>64" on the radio, you'd PISS YOURSELF LAUGHING. But if someone put on
>"Heartbreaker" or "The Rover", or "In the Evening", or....You get the
>point.
Damn... you sure got me. Ringo and the Beatles had nothing to do with
influencing most of the influences of our influences to play. The Beatles
had a less significant effect on music than Led Zeppelin, didn't they. WHY
can't people on this list get over their technical elitism? Being a more
technical musician does not make one a better musician. The Great Kat is
more tehcnical than Wes Montgomery... but seeing as he's had a lasting
effect, and she has yet to write anything musical... I dunno. I personally
have to think there's more to it than that... and fuck it, so do you, unless
you're all going to stop and say Buddy Rich was a better drummer than Mike
Portnoy (which most of you wouldn't, even though there's just NO QUESTION
about who had more technique) or Joe Stump is a better guitarist than John
Petrucci. Technique can be important. It is NEVER the most important
thing.
And to the half-wit who claimed that it's a big old flaw to speed up and
slow down while playing a song, here's a news flash: Some degree of this is
necessary to maintain a human sounding recording. The difference between a
shitty drum machine and a good one is often in its ability, or lack thereof,
to do this. Every musician speeds up and slows down. Listen to Three
Minute Warning. There are timing errors all over the place, and it's still
a great little (big) improv. Listen to Friday Night in San Fran. Even
timing gods like DiMeola drag and rush. It's part of being human.
>From: Frank Benenati <fmb@frontierlogic.com>
>Subject: MIDI/Computer studio software - help
>I'm looking to upgrade the sound card and get some software to do the
>trick. Any suggestions??? I want to be able to use samples to get my
>drum beats...as well as have the ability to record using a microphone or
>line in.
You need some form of wavetable sound card to do this. That's the
majority of what's abailable out there now anyways, so don't worry. The
SBLive is a good one because it uses system memory instead of card memory to
run samples (soundfonts). I'm looking at those and the Turtle Beach
Fiji/Multisound Pinnacle cards, to serve the same ends. Not sure which I'm
going with... the TB cards are more high end, and use Kurzweil processors,
whereas the SBLive is more middle end (pro-sumer) and uses EMU processors.
I'm not certain that either will deliver a better product than the other,
though I am pretty certain that the built in sounds will be better on the TB
stuff.
As for recording via mic in, the SBLive is probably good enough, though
you probably don't want the "SBLive Value." It's probably better than the
Fiji for this, but not as good as the Multisound Pinnacle (which costs arms
and legs more). The most important variabe here is actually your hard
drive(s) and ram. A normal hard drive is going to give you dismal
performance for multitracking digital audio (midi will be fine). Generally
most people opt for SCSI or anything fast. I have heard that the 7200 RPM
hard drives work wonders for this stuff, and if you have the ability to run
Ultra ATA 33 or UATA 66 you should do fine. I know I've never been anle to
do more than about 4 tracks of digital audio on my P133 with 48 MB of ram
and regular IDE drives. It just bogs down and then crashes.
>about the SBLive...is that the one to get??? As for software, I'm
>lost. I could simply d/l cakewalk express and start playing with
>that...but is that any good?? Suggestions here???
Cakewalk Express will be fine for just doing midi seqencing. When you
want to do digital audio, you'll need something bigger and more powerful.
Cakewalk Home Studio or Pro Audio (the latest versions) are pretty good.
Other programs to look into include: Samplitude, Logic (made by EMagic),
Cubase (Steinberg), etc. There should be a lot of web pages on this stuff.
- Chris
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:34:21 PST
From: "Isaac Trumbo" <inferno_one@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: hoon
Message-ID: <19990315203422.17555.qmail@hotmail.com>
The Book of Ytse
Chapter 3, Verse 8
"And lo, Hoon of Aramethia spaketh unto the masses, and spat upon the
sacred Minstrels. And the Lord was displeased and spake in a loud voice
saying 'I am displeased' and smote the evildoer and he was dead.. and
there was much rejoicing"
can't argue with god man.. :)
inferno
NP: steve vai - sex and religion
>Having said that...all of you who are glad that he died
>because he ripped Dream Theater really are sad, pathetic
>little people. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion
>about music, and to wish someone death because of the
>kind of music they make is just about the most disgusting
>thing I've ever heard.
>
>And btw, the name of that song is "No Rain," and the
>album is pretty damn cool.
>
>-Brian
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:42:27 -0700
From: "Todd Fostvedt" <tfostvedt@csu.org>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: When Dream and James Unite
Message-ID: <87256735.0071FF96.00@nd-mta01.csu.org>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Paul's biweekly musical quote:
>
>Can't you see that I am not afraid/ What was that promise that you made?/
>Won't you tell me what she said?
Woohoo, The Doors!!!
Speaking of overdoses, heeeeere's Mr. Morrison!!!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:43:47 -0600
From: "Brian D. Hayden" <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net, ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: Shannon Hoon
Message-ID: <iss.36d6.36ed7101.788d5.1@garnet.tc.umn.edu>
Responding to the message of <36ED46E4.A8536777@frontierlogic.com>
from ytsejam@ax.com:
>
>
> "Brian D. Hayden" wrote:
> >
> > Having said that...all of you who are glad that he died because he ripped
> > Dream
> > Theater really are sad, pathetic little people.
>
> I ripped into Hoon for a plain and simple reason. He is a professional.
> I'm not. In his position, he shouldn't have said what he said. Not only
> is it not professional, it's down right childish.
First of all, as others have pointed out, it wasn't Hoon who made the comments.
Secondly, I don't agree with your logic. Just because he's a professional
musician, he can't express an opinion? I guess you better start hating Neil
Peart then, if I remember correctly he implied that DT was a "bar band." That
certainly isn't very nice. Thirdly, to rip his comments about Dream Theater is
your prerogative. But to imply that his death is no great loss because he didn't
like your kind of music is really ridiculous. I'm not saying that you personally
did this, because I don't remember if you did. But there were comments made here
to that effect.
-Brian
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 20:40:32 +0000 (UTC)
From: Bert Baldwin <rcb@vectorbd.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: re: 4/4 Time Sigs and maybe the Real Answer
Message-ID: <Pine.SCO.3.95.990315203354.10241B-100000@vectorbd.vectorbd.com>
I have a bit of a different viewpoint on the time sig issue. I think
that time sigs are chosen primarily because of the quality that they
impose on the music. Take a for instance --
4/4 is a good, even time sig. It really holds down a good beat well,
which explains its use in Rock-n-Roll and other hard beat music, such as
dance and some rap. It's easy for a drummer to feel, and it just feels
natural.
3/4 tends to give more of a moving feel. It's not merely "holding down
the fort" as much as it's driving the song forward. Aside from waltzes
and slower 3/4 beats like that, 3/4 tends to create a more tense feel.
7/8 is kind of like 3/4 on steroids, giving an extremely lively rhythm
if the beat is quick. Other odd meters, like 9/8 and 5/4 tend to do the
same thing to a degree. When you get into things like 13/8 and 17/8, it
begins to diminish to a degree.
2/4 is much like 4/4, only the downbeat and what would wind up as the
third beat were the song in 4/4 are incredibly strong, contributing to
more beat-oriented muisic.
Mind you, these are just my opinions, and don't go around saying, "Well,
such and such is a rock song, and it's not in 4/4." There are exceptions
to every rule, so deal with it. And I don't care if I get flamed for my
opinions, because... well... I really don't have a reason. I just don't
give a fuck. Yeah.
-- Bert
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:04:36 -0800
From: drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: JLMB and the death of Shannon Hoon
Message-ID: <199903152104.NAA16617@gms.gmsnet.com>
I think this discussion is overplayed as JLMB itself pretty much covers it
all... Hoon and Cobain are just small pieces in a big puzzle of the Big
Machine of shitty music... they pieces may fall out or get lost but
plenty more talentless, marketable artists are gonna replace them... now
if only that stupid piece named Metallica would disappear or something...
-The Doc
-- *#&*@#@*(#@#*@(#!@*#(!@#(&!#(@!*#@((#@$(#@(($@#($(#@$@#($@#(*$@(*$*(#(#(##(#(# computersarefasterthanhumans - devastatetoinnovate - hyperspacialparallelcomp\ drkhoe@gmsnet.com = http://progmetal.gmsnet.com = internetcyberwetwaregamedev+ s*o#o$n@@c*o!m^e)s@@t>h<e@@|d~i+g-i%t%a.l@@<M><E><S><S><I><A><H> gaMECoReTeKN0------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:13:38 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Hansen <bhansen10@yahoo.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Graham Bonnet Message-ID: <19990315211338.22264.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com>
Christopher Ptacek <someone@enteract.com> interjected on the subject of Alcatrazz and it's singer:
> Come ON!!! You can't tell the difference between Vai and Yngwie?... > How can you STAND those vocals? > Not even the cancer throat sounds of Cacophony can prepare me for Graham > Bonnet!
Hehe :o) ... that's an aquired taste. I had the same question when Graham Bonnet joined Rainbow and replaced Dio. Then Bonnet goes and joins the Micheal Schenker Group. Just couldn't stomach that singing.
Then Alcatrazz comes out, and, oh no, more Graham Bonnet, but who the hell does this guitar player (Yngwie) think he is? Before long, I had actually started to like Bonnet's singing! When Bonnet joined up with Impelliteri, and they released "No Parole from Rock n' Roll Part 2" ;o), I was ready, and liked the singing right from the start.
BTW, in the slightest, twisted way, Russel Allen of Symphony X (one of my favorite singers) reminds me a LITTLE of Graham Bonnet at times. Of course Russel is much smoother and versatile, but when he goes into power mode, there's a small similarity...
my $.02, BH
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:32:00 -0600 From: Tom Cox <lexine@rollanet.org> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: UAGM solo Message-ID: <36ED7C50.5A92@rollanet.org>
> Actually, the part before the solo is in 11/4, then the guitar solo is in 4/4, and > the "Rush" sounding part after that is in 7/4 before going back into the 4/4 chorus. > Its probably cause its much easier for JP to take a solo in that "natural" feeling > time sig, and not having to worry about changing sigs, or odd ones. Not saying > he can't do a solo in an odd time sig, at the end of his instructional video, he takes > one in 5/4.
Ah yes, I went back and listened to it, which I should have done before posting, heh, I knew there was 11/4 and 7/4 in there somewhere though :)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:28:00 EST From: AyameYuki@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: 6:00 Message-ID: <65ca9e2b.36ed7b60@aol.com>
6:00 on a christmas moring...
i prepare for my audition ( tommorrow ::panic::),. anybody PLEASE e mail me their versions of 6:00 for the bass tab. i could easily do it myself, but my printer is so screwed up that now it only prints out in this stragely rusty brown like color regardless if its color or text. so....please...help a bassist out !
thanks for letting me whine,
Nic,
one frustrated bassist.
ps. i might play "Revival" but i forgot which band did that song. any body know ?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:42:11 -0500 From: Frank Benenati <fmb@frontierlogic.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: JLMB and the death of Shannon Hoon Message-ID: <36ED7EB3.E05682F2@frontierlogic.com>
"Dr. Mosh" wrote: > now > if only that stupid piece named Metallica would disappear or something...
Yeah....Kill em all!!!! Especially that fuck Lars.
-mojoman
/\ /\ \_\/_/ / _ _ \ |\ \(*)(*)/ /| #-----------------OOO- \oo/--OOO------------# # Frank Benenati - fmb@frontierlogic.com # # "Some of the nicest people are dogs" # # - Richard Dean Anderson # #__________________________ooo______________# ooo (_) (_)
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 4745 **************************
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