YTSEJAM Digest 4746
Today's Topics:
1) Beatles, Zeppelin
by Brian Hansen <bhansen10@yahoo.com>
2) re: ytsejam 4744
by "gregor" <gregor@rz-online.de>
3) And Justice for Lars
by David Dixon <David@iisweb.com>
4) messages
by Chuck Mehozonek <Mehozonek@worldnet.att.net>
5) Re: And Justice for Lars
by drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
6)
by "Maurice Vos" <maurice_vos@hotmail.com>
7) Re: Ytsejam Mouse Pointer
by Claus.Heymann@t-online.de (Claus Heymann)
8) Re: Metallica (No DTC)
by Mike Coulam <mcoulam@magma.ca>
9) RE: Andre out of Angra
by "Volodya" <oanrec@club-internet.fr>
10) NDTC: Revival
by cmartin@blueridge.net (Chris & Shelly Martin)
11) Ringo
by MentolPyro@aol.com
12) Doped up musicians
by "Brian Hayden" <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu>
13) Re: Shannon Hoon
by drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
14) You know, people...
by Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu>
15) Re: Beatles, Zeppelin
by "Brian Hayden" <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu>
16) Re: Metallica (No DTC)
by Frank Benenati <fmb@frontierlogic.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:51:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Hansen <bhansen10@yahoo.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Beatles, Zeppelin
Message-ID: <19990315215110.21162.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com>
Jon Parmet <jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov> reacted to a Beatles/Zeppelin
comparison:
> Si of Borg:
>>pioneers than Zeppelin, and yet if you put on ANY Zeppelin album,
>>it's aged far better than ANY Beatles album.
> I get YOUR point, I just question whether or not it is THE point but
> rather A point, albeit a weak one :) Let's see: if you put on "Hot
Dog"
> and compare it to "Helter Skelter", but you get my point, right? :)
Well, IMHO, the Beatles and Zeppelin were the best bands of the 60's
and 70's respectively, and they both have aged well. Zeppelin may SEEM
to have aged better, simply because they're a decade closer to today's
sound.
But then again, using anything from Zep's "In Through the Outhouse" as
a comparison is unfair. It was their decline album, and was not on the
same level as their previous recordings. It should be removed from the
Zep catalog, and put in the same bin as some recent Metallica and
Queensryche recordings...
Jon also wrote:
> Not to nitpick, as I'm not sure if you were placing the above in the
> context of your comparison of Ringo to Bonham; but Wasn't Bonham
already
> well on his way to decomposing before "In the Evening" came out.
More misinformation on the ytsejam... ;o)
Let's see, wasn't it Keith Moon who replaced Bonham in Zeppelin on
ITtOD? But they had to keep the name "Led Zeppelin", since Shannon
Hoon of Third Eye Blind had all of the rights to the name "Anderson,
Bruford, Wakeman and Bonham". At least they did keep Steve Vai in the
band to play the hard parts, since Jimmy Page was developing arthritis
at the time. (Yngwie had recorded all the guitar parts before Bonham
had died, but when Vai joined the band, he insisted on re-recording
the entire thing.) If that wasn't bad enough, it's also rumored that
David Coverdale actually did most of the vocals on ITtOD. On a side
note, when Van Halen recorded Zeppelin's classic song "You Really Got
Me", it's rumored that it was Jeff Beck's solo that ended up on the
final version, even though Jimmy Page had taken credit for it.
my $.02, BH
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 23:00:57 +0100
From: "gregor" <gregor@rz-online.de>
To: <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: re: ytsejam 4744
Message-ID: <001301be6f2f$6d4c1000$65f5fea9@Sprite.rhein-zeitung.de>
Brian:
+ADw-Having said that...all of you who are glad that he died because he ripped
Dream
+ADw-Theater really are sad, pathetic little people. Everyone is entitled to
their
+ADw-own opinion about music, and to wish someone death because of the kind of
music
+ADw-they make is just about the most disgusting thing I've ever heard.
Oh my god, what is wrong with you. Please, can somebody explain Brian that
not everything written is completly serious. And if there is no place for
(bad) humor or sarcasm in your mind, you are on the wrong list.
Brian, take it easy, come on, smile:
BTW: If he (Shannon) really did that (blaming DT and die shortly after), who
says there
is no god +ADs--). +ADs--)) this one is just for Brian
Gregor
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:07:26 -0700
From: David Dixon <David@iisweb.com>
To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: And Justice for Lars
Message-ID: <3093FD59DB69D11193AA00A0C9605649809311@messaging>
Anyone else catch the irony in this statement??? :)
<<<<<
Yeah....Kill em all!!!! Especially that fuck Lars.
-mojoman
>>>>>
David Dixon, MCP
Internet Developer
Integrated Information Systems, Inc.
david@iisweb.com
ytsedave@asu.edu
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:27:27 -0500
From: Chuck Mehozonek <Mehozonek@worldnet.att.net>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: messages
Message-ID: <36ED894F.B9C6BAA@worldnet.att.net>
Will you please discontinue sending me these messages. I did not
request thes and am getting tired of them cluttering up my mail.
Please unscribe me from you list.
Thank you
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:32:59 -0800
From: drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: And Justice for Lars
Message-ID: <199903152232.OAA18008@gms.gmsnet.com>
Before being sacrificed upon the altar..., David Dixon thus begged:
>
>Anyone else catch the irony in this statement??? :)
>
><<<<<
>Yeah....Kill em all!!!! Especially that fuck Lars.
>
>-mojoman
>>>>>>
Har har har... are we sure that it was Cliff Burton who died? ;)
-The Doc
-- ------ drkhoe@gmsnet.com -------------- ++++++ ---------------------- ///// http://progmetal.gmsnet.com ----------------==== Unix systems - C/C++ video game engine development =><=============== Administration ===================== Intranet/Internet Engineering =================------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 23:49:10 +0100 From: "Maurice Vos" <maurice_vos@hotmail.com> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Message-ID: <003401be6f36$120b4c40$9aa8acc1@jhidding>
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Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:28:35 +0100 From: Claus.Heymann@t-online.de (Claus Heymann) To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: Ytsejam Mouse Pointer Message-ID: <m10MeuZ-0003FAC@fwd08.btx.dtag.de>
Digital Man, I have the Mouse pointer you asked for (in the Digest numb.4= 740). You can find them in the Dream Theater official site. Search in "Programs= "; there=B4s: "Dream Theater & Queensr=FFche Windows Icons & Cursors". Author: Scott Daugherty. Size: 4,600 bytes. Have fun! Claudio Mirone (claus.heymann@t-online.de)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:34:03 -0500 From: Mike Coulam <mcoulam@magma.ca> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: Metallica (No DTC) Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19990315183403.006a6dc4@magma.ca>
I've been sitting back listening to this "Lars Sucks" and "Metallica sold out" debate for a few days. Figured it was about time to throw my opinio= n into the fray.
Lars is an average drummer in a semi-talented band. Guys like Igor Cavalera (Sepultura), Vinnie Paul (Pantera), Randy Castillo (Ozzy Osbourn= e) blow him outta the water. Newsted is a mediocre bassist at best. I've heard other metal bassists that are so far beyond him it's unbelievable. I'm thinking about Geezer Butler (Black Sabbath), Steve Harris (Iron Maiden) and Robert Trujillo (ex-Suicidal Tendencies/Infectious Grooves). Hammett is an above average guitar player. Not great, but he can hold hi= s own for soloing. He's got some interesting stuff that you have to give h= im credit for such as the songs Master of Puppets and ... And Justice for Al= l. Hetfield is a monster rythmn guitarist. I have the utmost respect for h= is ability. Not many singers/rythmn guitarists can compare to him, IMO. Da= ve Mustaine and Zakk Wylde (his work on his solo CD "Book of Shadows" is awesome) come to mind.
I think the problem that everyone is having with Metallica is that they altered their sound and attitude significantly from the days of Master of Puppets and Justice. Everything before the Black album were very aggressive and angry CDs. That's what the old school Metallica fans love= d. Screaming vocals, cool guitar, and thought-provoking music. Then came t= he Black album. That's when everything changed. There are a couple decent songs, but for the most part, it was a disappointment for me. I, for one= , utterly refuse to buy Load and Reload. When I first heard Until It Sleep= s, I thought I was listening to Hootie and the Blowfish. Then I saw the video. I won't even go into my opinion of that.
With the change in their sound and attitude, they lost a large portion of their longtime fans. I have no problem whatsoever in listening to their pre-Black album music. I won't listen to the rest of it, well, with the exception of Garage Inc. because it seems more like the old Metallica. =20
Anyways, there are my longwinded opinions. Flame me all you want. I can take it!!!
Mike
"No matter what the trouble, we carry =91round inside, We=92re never safe from the truth, but in the truth we can survive." --- Wall of Denial - Stevie Ray Vaughan
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 00:41:05 +0100 From: "Volodya" <oanrec@club-internet.fr> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: RE: Andre out of Angra Message-ID: <000c01be6f3d$4d742ca0$f69f24c3@default>
> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:37:21 EST > From: Sebast87@aol.com > To: ytsejam@axnet.net > Subject: Andre out of Angra > Message-ID: <f2440660.36ed5361@aol.com> > > > Hey! > There is a rumor that Andre Matos is going to leave Angra for > Gamma Ray. Is it > just a rumor? Can anyone confirm or tell me that it is wrong ? > I just hope he will stay. > Sebast
That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard lately. Only a recent post on the Perpetual Motion message board that King Diamond died in a car accident could compare with this one.
False!!!!!!
Later, Volodya.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:46:42 -0500 From: cmartin@blueridge.net (Chris & Shelly Martin) To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: NDTC: Revival Message-ID: <v01530503b3134a14add1@[205.152.121.61]>
>ps. i might play "Revival" but i forgot which band did that song. any body >know ?
That would be the Allman Brothers!! : ) Great band, great tune!! Good luck with the audition!! : )
Later, Chris Martin cmartin@blueridge.net ICQ#: 33691127 ================================================================ Rocking-Angels Mailing List:
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/Rocking-Angels
To mourn and remember those musicians that have passed on!!The web site is:
http://www.hotshotdigital.com/tribute.html ===============================================================
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 19:06:13 EST From: MentolPyro@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Ringo Message-ID: <26bd900d.36eda075@aol.com>
I just thot some of you may be interested in an experience I had today: I brought two CDs to lunch at my high school (age implied) and another kid brought his collection, and he REALLY wanted me to listen to this one by Ringo Star Yes! The solo CD Ringo released last year, with 4 Beatles' covers and however many else of his own. So he forced the headphones upon me and I asked is this a cover? And his reply: no. "This was released last year?" Uh huh. Hmmm. Seems he hasn't "progressed much," but I bet many grown women who liked the Beatles back when got this CD and liked it.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:14:13 -0600 From: "Brian Hayden" <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Doped up musicians Message-ID: <iss.1507.36eda254.3dfb7.1@garnet.tc.umn.edu>
Responding To: "gregor" <gregor@rz-online.de> Original Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:20:29 -0800 (PST)
> Oh my god, what is wrong with you. Please, can somebody explain Brian > that > not everything written is completly serious. And if there is no place for > (bad) humor or sarcasm in your mind, you are on the wrong list.
Heh. Trust me, I know sarcasm and it doesn't bother me. Bad humor? Let me tell you some jokes about peglegged prostitutes.
That's not the problem. Some people were being humorous or sarcastic, or engaging in hyperbole. But there are some people who I think honestly revel in the deaths of people whose music they didn't like, and it's sick. I bet a lot of the people saying, "oh, shannon hoon, good riddance" are also the ones who say, "What a shame that Hendrix/Joplin/Bonham/Morrison died, tragedy, they were genuises taken before their time." It's all bullshit. Hendrix was just as much of a fucking moron as Hoon or Cobain, but some people think he made better music so they conveniently overlook that fact. People who get hooked on heroin in the first place are pathetic; people who refuse to recognize the damage it does and kill themselves with it, causing immeasurable pain to their loved ones, are real bastards. But that has nothing at all to do with their music, if they happen to be musicians.
To put it shortly and simply: if you don't like someone's music, don't listen to it. There's no need to wish for or gloat over their death.
-Brian
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:17:14 -0800 From: drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh) To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: Shannon Hoon Message-ID: <199903160017.QAA19864@gms.gmsnet.com>
Before being sacrificed upon the altar..., "Brian D. Hayden" thus begged: > >First of all, as others have pointed out, it wasn't Hoon who made the comments. >Secondly, I don't agree with your logic. Just because he's a professional >musician, he can't express an opinion? I guess you better start hating Neil >Peart then, if I remember correctly he implied that DT was a "bar band." That >certainly isn't very nice. Thirdly, to rip his comments about Dream Theater is
WHOA WHOA WHOA!!! Before we get too far into this... Geddy has said unofficially that they take it all back... I forgot who I was talking to about this... but it's reliable... Peart takes it back and didn't mean it, he was just concerned that someone was using these "bar bands" to capitalize on some cash...
-The Doc
-- *#&*@#@*(#@#*@(#!@*#(!@#(&!#(@!*#@((#@$(#@(($@#($(#@$@#($@#(*$@(*$*(#(#(##(#(# computersarefasterthanhumans - devastatetoinnovate - hyperspacialparallelcomp\ drkhoe@gmsnet.com = http://progmetal.gmsnet.com = internetcyberwetwaregamedev+ s*o#o$n@@c*o!m^e)s@@t>h<e@@|d~i+g-i%t%a.l@@<M><E><S><S><I><A><H> gaMECoReTeKN0
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 19:36:57 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: You know, people... Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.990315193445.13428A-100000@oz.plymouth.edu>
This is just a reminder that Metallica "sold out/didn't sell out" discussions are strictly prohibited by Skadz. After reading the last few hundred messages on the 'jam, I can understand why. Let's just remember what is and what is not allowed, and get back to some less... irritating... conversation. Thank you for my time.
------------------------------------------------- Andrew Coutermarsh a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu http://cout.ml.org/ _Cloak on IRC ICQ: 2513441 ------------------------------------------------- "Prayer has no place in school, just like facts have no place in religion." - Superintendant Chalmers from "The Simpsons" -------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:39:07 -0600 From: "Brian Hayden" <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: Beatles, Zeppelin Message-ID: <iss.23a5.36eda829.60f5b.1@garnet.tc.umn.edu>
Responding To: Brian Hansen <bhansen10@yahoo.com> Original Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:08:33 -0800 (PST)
> Well, IMHO, the Beatles and Zeppelin were the best bands of the 60's > and 70's respectively, and they both have aged well. Zeppelin may SEEM > to have aged better, simply because they're a decade closer to today's > sound.
There may be some truth to that. I have to say that the Beatles sound much more "old" to my ears, and boring, but everyone has an opinion...
As for influences, the Beatles definitely influenced as many people as Zeppelin, considering many Zeppelin contemporaries were influenced by the Beatles. I think it's slightly wrong to say that the Beatles' early albums influenced people, though, because anyone who took the early Beatles to heart was really hearing a regurgitation of black music in a form which was slightly more acceptable to the racist establishment. They were definitely innovative, if annoying, on their later work such as Sgt. Pepper and Abbey Road, but this innovation was more in the realm of studio recording ideas than in the actual music, imo.
> But then again, using anything from Zep's "In Through the Outhouse" as > a comparison is unfair. It was their decline album, and was not on the > same level as their previous recordings. It should be removed from the > Zep catalog, and put in the same bin as some recent Metallica and > Queensryche recordings...
Now this I can't agree with. I love every song on that album with the exception of "I'm Gonna Crawl." Why do you call it a "decline album?" It was certainly different, partly because of Page's growing reliance on heroin, but I think in its own way it can compare favorably to any other zep. Some of the coolest keyboard riffs ever, some great "groove" ... it's just an awesome album, imo. I think that "Houses of the Holy" is by far the worst Zep album, because of Plant's screechy voice on that record and some sub-par ditties like "D'yer Maker." "Rain Song," though, is one of my all-time faves.
And, to clarify, Bonham died *after* ITtOD and the European tour, but before the American tour. Zeppelin never recorded another song after he died, although they did release some old cuts as the album "Coda" a year or two after his death.
-Brian
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 19:45:58 -0500 From: Frank Benenati <fmb@frontierlogic.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: Metallica (No DTC) Message-ID: <36EDA9C6.6C8ADA92@frontierlogic.com>
Metallica is a strange animal. They've survived in a (music)world that left a whole shitload of groups just like them, for dead. And they did it with:
Lars - a downright crappy drummer that spent more time practicing his snarl, than he did practicing good timekeeping. Newstead - dumb prick that again, trys to look badder than he really is...All while playing a average bass. Hammett - This guy really pisses me off. Ask the fucker to construct a melody and he'll look at you dumbfoundedly. Ask him to play real fast and he'll play the same shit every other fast guitarist plays. No feeling, no originality...just a plain old crappy guitarist with a bad haircut, stupid rings and no feel. Hettfield - If entire band left except for James...and he formed a new band, I would be a fan. This guy is an incredible guitarist. No one gives him credit for the melodies he constructs...or plays. Although, I can't be sure, since he consorts with douchebags like Lars, I get the impression he is a real down to earth guy...
Now having said all that, I have given Metallica more chances than one can imagine. I was dragged to a Metallica show, by a fellow jammer, back in 91. I mean, you guys are talking like they only sold out a few years ago. The never stopped selling out. Everytime they come out with a new album, they are marketing themselves with the apropriate image. The person I was with said, "Hey man, they have no image, they're just four guys that are up there jamming...No clothes, no makeup, no nothing" ..Bullshit....back in 1991, the black jeans, black t-shirts, black harley boots, teased hair, huge drum kit in the round, All our guitars slung-real-low-so-we-have-back-problems-the-rest-of-our-life, And lets not forget the fancy fucking pyro shows.....No Image?? Give me a fucking break!!! They change with whatever sells and their music follows suit. If you liked em back during the black album or AJFA, you probably didn't mind their holyer-than-thou-metal-god image. If you like them now adays, you probably don't mind their U2sunglasses-mascara-cubancigar-alternica-garagemechanic image. About the only time they were pure, was when Dave mustane was in the group.
Remember, these fucks were crying about equal rights for metal and finally getting what they deserve....all while stepping and crushing every other act around them, just to climb to the top. They're shit and some day, they'll get what's coming to them...
-MojoMan
/\ /\ \_\/_/ . / _ _ \ . |\ |(*)(*)| /| #-----------------OOO---oo---OOO------------# # Frank Benenati - fmb@frontierlogic.com # # "Some of the nicest people are dogs" # # - Richard Dean Anderson # #__________________________ooo______________# ooo (_) (_)
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 4746 **************************
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