YTSEJAM Digest 4764
Today's Topics:
1) First CLARITY album
by Sami Poimala <spoimala@st.jyu.fi>
2) liner making
by Joshua Rasiel <jrasi@bigfoot.com>
3) Re: Meanings behind music
by "Joe Bissonnette" <Bissonnette@cdr.wisc.edu>
4) Analyzation of Symbolism/Emotion in Music (and art in general).
by "Giannotti, Nick" <GiannottiN@hanscom.af.mil>
5) My Web Site...
by ANGELO LOMBARDI <angelo13@home.com>
6) Feelings - Wo Wo Wo Feelings
by "Bernard, Chris" <CBernard@pulaskifurniture.com>
7) Musical Messages
by "Christopher W. Ptacek" <someone@prognosis.com>
8) Brian Larkin's "Dream Theater / John Petrucci" Group at sixdegrees
by "Brian Larkin"<iika420d2@bboard.sixdegrees.com>
9) UK and Allan Holdsworth
by BILL HUSTON <HUSTON@IOMEGA.COM>
10) Rush Breaking Up
by "Jason Barden" <jbarden@usdbs2.usdb.k12.ut.us>
11) Re: YTSEJAM digest 4763
by "Matt Molite" <ytsejam11@dreamtheater.zzn.com>
12) There's no present like the TIME
by Jon Parmet <jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:08:36 +0200
From: Sami Poimala <spoimala@st.jyu.fi>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: First CLARITY album
Message-ID: <36F7CA94.56459E0F@st.jyu.fi>
Hi all!
A finnish prog-metal band CLARITY has released it's first CD.
Main influences vary from Symphony X to Stratovarius to Dreamtheater to
Uriah Heep etc.
Check out the samples and feel free to comment.
Samples can be found at http://spnet.ainola.jyu.fi/clarity/thex.htm
Carpe diem,
Sami Poimala
Keyboardist of CLARITY
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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:23:43 -0500
From: Joshua Rasiel <jrasi@bigfoot.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: liner making
Message-ID: <36F7CE1F.20D17156@bigfoot.com>
>Does anyone know of a good program or template for creating jewel
>case liners for CDs? Shareware or freeware would be preferable.
I used QuarkXPress and a ruler to make the one in my portfolio.
I know of no such liner making program; it would be useful, but until
you get ahold of one, you'll just have to grab an existing liner from
your collection, measure it, and make your quark(or whatever) file that
dimension in your page setup box.
Liners are basically brochures, and brochures are something graphic
designers make alllllll the time w/out any special software.
good luck. Better yet, measure twice!
-- Joshua Rasiel jrasi@bigfoot.com www.j51.com/~mrasiel Churchill's description of history: "It's just one damn thing after another."------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:25:10 -0600 From: "Joe Bissonnette" <Bissonnette@cdr.wisc.edu> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: Meanings behind music Message-ID: <8625673D.005D7D8F.00@domino.cdr.wisc.edu>
Phil Carter wrote: > > No, but remember that Beethoven made sure to NAME the movements in his > Sixth (Pastorale) Symphony (one of my all-time favorite classical pieces), > because he wanted to make sure that the musicologists and critics would get > the message: "Yes, there is in fact intended to be a STORY behind this > music". :) >
But it doesn't spell out the story... It's still completely open to your personal interpretation. I can speculate on a story just as easily to any instrumental piece... That's kind of the point to this discussion. In answer to the question that started this whole discussion (what is the meaning of LTE) the meaning is simply what you deem it to be. There are occasional instrumental pieces where the composer writes out 'this little part represents x and this one is where y happens,' but for the vast majority of instrumental songs the meaning is completely subjective.
Chris Calabrese wrote: a great post. I completely agree.
mjt wrote: > as a potential "musical masturbaters" group is accurate. I'm not advocating > the overanalysis of the music, but if the music isn't intended to convey an > emotion, or feeling (as instrumentals like "Hell's Kitchen" and "Lost > Without You" do -- both invoke in me distinct feelings through the sound,) > then what, really, is the purpose? Titles become next to irrelevant > <deep philosophical mode> Food for thought: beauty is moving in and of itself, and it is a noble purpose to simply try to create something beautiful. </deep philosophical mode> BTW all musicians are musical masterbaters. Some are just better at it than others... And titles are often next to irrelevent. I usually enjoy an album just as much when I don't know the track titles as when I do (although I have to admit track two of Reality Check made a lot more sense after reading the title). As far as LTE, "This is the Bit Where JP and I Kick Ass" should probably have been the ablum title (they could keep LTE as the group name). Maybe they can still make that the title for LTE2..
Biz
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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:52:14 -0500 From: "Giannotti, Nick" <GiannottiN@hanscom.af.mil> To: "'wilco@wybbs.mi.org'" <wilco@wybbs.mi.org> Cc: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Analyzation of Symbolism/Emotion in Music (and art in general). Message-ID: <390762D98D63D2118C280060081358CC8F4965@hamsxha2.hanscom.af.mil>
Greetings!
>From: mjt <wilco@wybbs.mi.org> >Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4762 > > >This idea rather bothers me... I've always tried to figure out why the >particular musical techniques were used on a song -- and what the meaning >behind the music is.
My point, however, was that music - and all art, in general - doesn't have to have a meaning. Music can be created for the sake of music, with no exterior motives at all.
I don't deny that themes in songs like "Surrounded" and LTL are emotionally moving; on the contrary, they move me quite a bit. But not every piece of art - be it a poem, a song, or a painting - needs to be an emotional breeding ground.
>I'm not advocating the overanalysis of the music, but if the music isn't intended to convey an >emotion, or feeling (as instrumentals like "Hell's Kitchen" and "Lost >Without You" do -- both invoke in me distinct feelings through the sound,) >then what, really, is the purpose?
To get chicks? To get back at your parents for sending you to Catholic school for 18 years? To have fun? The possibilities are endless. When I started playing guitar, I didn't think about what was running around in my mind when I played - I just wanted to get together with my buddies and make as much noise as possible (and noise it was - this was back when I thought if all my tuning pegs were straight in a line, I was perfectly in tune). Emotion? Sure. We had FUN. A message? A theme for everyone else to react to? Nope, just a pounding headache afterwards for a lot of people in the neighborhood. :) Let's talk about the 80's for a minute - what kind of emotion were the guitarists who played as fast as they could for the sake of playing fast trying to convey? They weren't writing songs for the sake of the song - they were writing songs merely as technical exercises. I don't see much emotion in there.
>Titles become next to irrelevant
Wasn't there a band a few years back that had an album with nine tracks or something, and they were labeled 1-9? Or am I just going stark raving mad?
>Music that conveys little or exceedingly trite >emotion is not something I listen to for the sake of listening - it's >background noise, not music, as far as I'm concerned. I like Aerosmith -- >but the majority of their songs aren't really something I find myself >enjoying *listening to*. I enjoy *hearing* the songs, but not listening to >them...
So you've found the line between 'music' and 'party tunes'. Good for you!
(That's me making a funny, if you didn't know, not a stab at you.)
Music that conveys little or exceedinly trite emotion may not be for everyone. But it has its place. There are times when people don't want to listen to music, they just want to hear it - like at a party, for example. If you're at a party hitting on this fantastic specimen of the opposite sex, do you really want to hold a conversation with her while you're mentally dissecting "Lines in the Sand"? Nope - it's easier to throw something emotionally trite in the CD player (like [pulling example out of ass] Steve Miller tunes) and use all your resources to hit on the object of your affection.
Now, the argument can be made that ANY music out there that's created by a person has to have some sort of emotional content. To this argument, I say "Absolutely true." Everything has an emotional content in it, be it a building, a song, or an instrument. My point is one that you try to avoid - overanalyzing. I think it's done far too much, and people lose out on the simpler mysteries of the song (in this case). Steve Miller probably puts TONS of emotion into creating his songs. Is he attempting to make sure those emotions are conveyed when the song is played back? Maybe, maybe not, but his music makes great party music, and while I'm no Steve Miller fan, I won't complain if he comes on the CD player when I'm trying to talk to a girl at a party. He writes great music that, to me, is fun to HEAR, but not necessarily fun to LISTEN to. Do you see my difference? This, of course, doesn't mean that someone else can't take the opposing point of view (where they see Dream Theater as a good band to hear, but not fun to listen to) - everything is subjective. That's what's so magical about being able to listen to music and hear what's going on underneath it, to hear what's happening in the guitarist's fingers when he plays that killer solo - it hits everyone different, and no one's wrong. :)
I'd better stop or I'm going to get hit with a "No way are you sending a message that big to the jam, bitch." notification.
Nicholas Giannotti x6745 Joint STARS Contracts giannottin@hanscom.af.mil ---------------------------------- Si hoc signum legere potes, operis boni in rebus Latinus alacribus et fructuosis potiri potes!
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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:48:44 -0500 From: ANGELO LOMBARDI <angelo13@home.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: My Web Site... Message-ID: <36F7D3FC.57CDCAD2@home.com>
Hey Everybody,
I've spent some quality weekend time preparing my personal web site. Check it out! It's kinda funny, but TRUE...
http://members.home.net/angelo13/
Feel free to sign my guestbook.
Thanx!
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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:51:00 -0500 From: "Bernard, Chris" <CBernard@pulaskifurniture.com> To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Feelings - Wo Wo Wo Feelings Message-ID: <18DB7F3D6363D1119B080060083FF42CC4E4D0@PFC_EXCH01>
Greetings jammers:
Here's yet another take on the feelings and meanings of songs. It's all -- primarily -- entertainment. mjt asked us: >if the music isn't intended to convey an emotion, or feeling ... then what, really, is the purpose? "To entertain the listener" would be my answer. Granted, what entertains me may not be so entertaining to someone else. But music is, and has (almost) always been about, entertainment. mjt, and others, have made arguments that sitting down and really listening to music is necessary to evoke an emotional response. (BTW: if i've misinterpreted your comments, or gone too far in paraphrasing, i apologize) But i have to counter with the fact that if, within the first few minutes of listening, you don't find a piece entertaining, you won't want to sit and listen to it any more -- no matter what kind of emotional reward is waiting at the end. i am in no way arguing that emotional responses and meanings have no place in music. A good many people have made good livings performing music with messages. But -- i ask of the garage band musicians out there -- what was the primary purpose of starting a band? (getting laid doesn't count!) Probably the biggest percentage will answer something like "to jam with my buddies and play for friends." It's all about entertaining people!
peace... CHRIS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------ "Maybe i'm wrong/Maybe i'm right Maybe i'm some kind of lunatic." - QR ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----------------------
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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:23:28 -0600 From: "Christopher W. Ptacek" <someone@prognosis.com> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Musical Messages Message-ID: <00d001be755a$40d415a0$1a3cfea9@scubaminky>
My turn!
I wanted to reply as soon as this thread started, but I was a bit too busy here. I think Cyberduke's lady friend brings up an entirely valid point. ALL music should convey a message. I don't understand how anyone could disagree with that. If it doesn't communicate anything, you'd never understand it, and it would never be worth listening to. I think this is the failing point on many of the shred albums in my collection. Too many people focusing too much energy on impressing you with the physics of their music and not the concepts and ideas and emotions that make music what it is to most of us. As a pseudo-quasi-shredder myself, of course I'm bot insinuating that speed and technique can't convey emotion... but when emotion isn't even a consideration in the music, it's most often waste of time to hear. Here's the catch though. Even this is mostly subjective. You say band x has no emotion in their music and a bunch of people will tell you that you're wrong... so be it. I think I can hear for myself when there is or isn't emotion in the music I listen to. I think we all make those decisions for ourselves anyways, if we're of free mind, and not trying to fit in or to put anyone down. So all in all, I do agree with Duke's friend about LTE. I think that's the problem I had with the album myself. It didn't and doesn't have much longevity for me. I've already been flamed for that. I do, of course, understand what goes into making an album like this one... and it's a great achievement for such a short time frame. But it seems only to light the sparks of true emotion and conceptual completeness for me. Picture a fire cracker that you light, that fizzles, and dies, and then sparks again, and dies. This album is like that for me. The problems stem mainly from John and Jordan, IMO. To me it sounds like stuff we've already heard from JP. It's not a leap deserving a new band name. I would KILL for the complete songs from the out takes from his instructional video. Or more of the AoImpact style playing. That was a great strong new JP sound there to me. LTE seems to be a bit regressive... sort of like how on images and words and previous music, you can hear the influences too clearly at times. I don't want to heat JP doing DiMeola and Morse. He's already become an entity on his own. There's too much of what sounds like "filler" to me on the album. Spacing good ideas with things that are harmonically compatible but which lack direction. I know, I'm being harsh. And my initial opinion was that the album was great. It hasn't aged well. Rudess, to me, lacks in only one area, and it's totally subjective. I think, for all the quality of his boards, and all the experience he has and technique he's got... that his sounds are lame. He's got a few good ones, and I really love his piano type stuff. But I think I've been spoiled with Derek. I love how huge those sounds are. I love the variety... I will NEVER recover from the damage LitS has done to me! :) So take it or leave it. That's where I stand. I hear a lot of emotion in Jason Becker's playing, and I don't in all of George Bellas's stuff (but some really shines.) I hear a LOT of emotion in Jimmy Page's stuff and Neil Young's, and I don't hear it in Magellan and Altura, etc. Yngwie has moments of brilliance and moments of blah. I guess you can't please all the people all the time!
Madsman of the Ryke
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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:22:16 -0500 From: "Brian Larkin"<iika420d2@bboard.sixdegrees.com> To: "A prospective member of the Dream Theater / John Petrucci group"<ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Brian Larkin's "Dream Theater / John Petrucci" Group at sixdegrees Message-ID: <199903231824.KAA14766@knight.axnet.net>
Brian Larkin (oracle54@hotmail.com) has invited you to join the "Dream Theater / John Petrucci" Group at sixdegrees.
sixdegrees is a powerful online community where members are able to view the path of relationships that connect them to every other member. Brian's group is part of the sixdegrees interest group area, which allows members to take advantage of community-based tools, like bulletin boards and chat, in a relevant topic-based environment.
Here's a personal message from Brian: _____________________________________________________________________
"Check out my new Dream Theater group ..." _____________________________________________________________________
If you're already a member of sixdegrees, simply click on the link below to be taken directly to the "Dream Theater / John Petrucci" Group (you'll have to log in first):
http://www.sixdegrees.com/groups/grouphome.asp?GroupID=9191&PwP=0
If you're new to sixdegrees, you'll have to go through a short registration process. It only takes a few minutes and it's free.
To join sixdegrees or learn more, visit http://www.sixdegrees.com/
Note: As you register, you will be asked to provide the names of two people who might also like to participate in sixdegrees, so we can begin to get you connected. Once they confirm the relationship, you can instantly tap into their interconnected community of interesting people from all over the world.
We look forward to seeing you.
===================================================================
PLEASE NOTE: All replies to this address are processed by a computer. If you have any problems, questions or requests send an e-mail to issues@sixdegrees.com and you'll receive a prompt and courteous response.
====================================================================
sixdegrees is Registered in the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office.
GROUP.INVITE-PUBLIC1.1
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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:54:33 -0700 From: BILL HUSTON <HUSTON@IOMEGA.COM> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: UK and Allan Holdsworth Message-ID: <s6f78102.069@IOMEGA.COM>
It has been mentioned recently that AH was is UK. I have Danger Money and the Live Night after Night CD's and Allan Holdsworth is on neither one of them. Further, waaaaaay back in the early 70's I saw them warming up for Jethro Tull. They were only a 3 piece band (no guitar) just like the CD's I own. My question is when and where did AH join up with them. This is quite a surprise to me and I'm quite doubtful this is true knowing what I know now. Incidentally, prior to the concert I had never heard UK, Bozzio just blew me away. Jobson played a clear violin and used a huge keyboard set and Leslie cabinets. I thought it was cool to watch those big fans spin like crazy when he really got on it.
Slightly confused, Wilmo
NP: Conception-Parallel Minds
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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:38:00 -0700 From: "Jason Barden" <jbarden@usdbs2.usdb.k12.ut.us> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Rush Breaking Up Message-ID: <B0000020545@usdbs2.usdb.k12.ut.us>
> I have heard a disturbing rumor that Neil Peart has announced > that RUSH will be no more. > > I very much want this to be false. If anyone else has heard > anything remotely close to this rumor from a reliable source, > please post it! > > RUSH just can't quit......
I jsut got back from the Rush/NMS page and there was a headline that read "Rush is in No Danger of Breaking Up" Here is a link to the article
http://syrinx.yyz.com/HTML/articles/newspapers/calgary_102998.html
After all that Neil has been through recently I think it would be hard for him to quit Rush, it's the perfect medium for him to express his feelings. I think that with future Rush releases we will see alot of really heartfelt lyrics and such.
Jason
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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:19:05 -0800 From: "Matt Molite" <ytsejam11@dreamtheater.zzn.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4763 Message-ID: <199903231222442@ytsejam11.dreamtheater.zzn.com>
>I have heard a disturbing rumor that Neil Peart has announced >that RUSH will be no more. > >I very much want this to be false. If anyone else has heard >anything remotely close to this rumor from a reliable source, >please post it!
Personally, I wouldn't be suprised if this were true. Neil went through a lot of tough emotional hell the past 2 years or so, what with his daughter dying and then his wife. I don't know how he's doing now, but I do remember reading that he was checked into a hospital because they were afraid he would starve himself from the depression he was going through. I would think that he would have an extremely tough time bringing himself to play in a band again.
Also, Rush was nearing the end of their career, unless they felt like sticking around as long as the Stones or Floyd, but then, like the Stones or Floyd, they would appear to be jokes on stage.
Matt
Visit the Official Dream Theater Website at http://www.dreamtheater.net/ ___________________________________________________________ Get your own Web-based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com
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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:53:22 +0000 From: Jon Parmet <jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov> To: Tongue In Cheek Recipients <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: There's no present like the TIME Message-ID: <36F7FF42.28D9@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
Phil wrote: > No, but remember that Beethoven made sure to NAME the movements in his > Sixth (Pastorale) Symphony
> (one of my all-time favorite classical pieces),
That's pure opinion Phil... actually Bach (Johann Sebastian, not Offen) is your favorite composer. Got it? Please stick to the facts! :P
> because he wanted to make sure that the musicologists and critics would get > the message: "Yes, there is in fact intended to be a STORY behind this > music". :)
STORY? ok, in a moment, later on down the page, if you dare ;)
Regarding his intentions? Mmmmm....close :) But, alas, once again, opinion...
In FACT, Ludvy was one of the most forward thinking composers OF ALL TIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEME! He named the movements so that Search Engines would be able to pick them up. Far beyond progressive... Bach still could out shred him though :)
Anymore questions, you know who to come to for the straight talk. You're Welcome :)
> As for meanings behind instrumental music, or all music in general, here's > a quote from Aaron Copland that might help put things into perspective: > > "The whole problem can be stated quite simply by asking, 'Is there a > meaning to music?' My answer would be, 'Yes.' And 'Can you state in so many > words what the meaning is?" My answer to that would be, 'No.' "
Sweet!!
mjt: > the overanalysis of the music, but if the music isn't intended to convey an > emotion, or feeling (as instrumentals like "Hell's Kitchen" and "Lost > Without You" do -- both invoke in me distinct feelings through the sound,) > then what, really, is the purpose?
'Meaning' and 'feeling' rock... REALLY! To be left weak and drained from the POWER in a piece of music is truly awesome. When I saw the video from Another Day for the first time, it was too much. I flashed back to when my Mom was in a coma. I pray that anyone who has never seen a close relative pumped up with so much fluid that they scare the fucking piss out of you more than any scary movie ever can, ever has to... Believe me, there is no amount of desensitizing which can insulate you from this, unless you've been lobotomized.
Did James' voice drive the knife in deeper? Uh huh! Did John's guitar at the beginning of the solo actually weep? You bet! I was a fucking mess. I couldn't listen to AD for for quite a while afterwards...
Intense enough?
It's not directed at anyone in particular, just using words to convey an emotion. And this is ok, when it is the case. It not always is. My argument shall be that "music" without apparent purpose can sometimes be quite inspiring, more than any preconceived notion. Some things not only don't need to be overanalyzed, they aren't, in fact, analyzed at all... They just ARE...
"Distinct" could be the crux of the biscuit here, but the operative word I'm addressing shall be "intended." "Overanalysis" shall thou not address. "Hell's" is right out... :)
There are times I've seen people play live and, during improvising, something just comes out of the spontaneous, non-linear nowhere...and then it's gone! Where the heck did that come from???? The musician has that glazed look on their face of "No frigging clue, boss.. just glad to know I'm actually still here on stage in corporeal form, with all my shiz intact.... ooops no time to think, gotta think about keeping time" :)
There was no time for intention. There was no 'why'. The purpose was non-existant at the instant right before the sound was made. There was no analysis about where it came from. It just IS....
Oh, screw it, words are KEWL, but Aaron was right: there are no words.
> Hm. I think I should have stuck a few paragraphs in there, instead of > allowing it to overflow into one single line... ah, what the hell.
Then again, maybe there are :)
In short: I'm so very very glad that the band has decided NOT to let us know details about the new disc. I like SURPRISES. In a world where there are no more secrets left, where everyone knows every aspect of every detail down to it's sub-atomic level....SURPRISE ME!
lata... I think I hear the mothership calling :)
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 4764 **************************
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