YTSEJAM Digest 4766
Today's Topics:
1) Musical Rape.
by "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net>
2) Re: Meaning in Music
by TheCowGod <demccor@clemson.edu>
3) Rush
by "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net>
4) Re: DT gets respect! [from jazz artists]
by "Paul Humm" <phumm@scientech.com>
5) Re: LTE regressive?
by "Matt Molite" <ytsejam11@dreamtheater.zzn.com>
6) Re: Messages in Music
by Steffen Barabasch <TheMirror@westend.com>
7) Re: Event and Crucible 03/19/99
by AnalogGal@aol.com
8) Tensing up when playing fast... What to work on...
by "Mark Philpot" <griphiam@ccnet.com>
9) NEVERMORE/ICED EARTH/ DESTINY'sEND tour
by Conrad Chi <uchic00@umail.ucsb.edu>
10) Re: Rush
by Kevin Carmouche <khc@bellsouth.net>
11) Re: NEVERMORE/ICED EARTH/ DESTINY'sEND tour
by TheCowGod <demccor@clemson.edu>
12) WANTED
by Vampyrized@aol.com
13) Something about "sound and fury"...
by "Matt Gonzales" <matt_gonzales@excite.com>
14) catch my drift
by "Christopher W. Ptacek" <someone@prognosis.com>
15) Re: NEW DREAM THEATER PAGE!!!!
by drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:33:20 -0700
From: "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net>
To: <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Musical Rape.
Message-ID: <004201be7596$58a7f8e0$620d84d0@default>
>As I took a shit 5 minutes ago, something else came to my mind about
Thanks alot! Now you know what I'm gonna be thinking about every time I
listen to this? hehehe. The thing is I can sympathize with ya. I do my
best thinking on the Throne. Happens to me all the time. I can't read
listen to David Arkenstone without thinking of David Eddings' Belgariad,
Mallorean, etc. I always listen to that when reading Eddings. I enjoy
listening to Nirvana's En Utero as it conjures memories of SK's "The Stand."
(I know I've mentioned this before but it stands out among all others) I
relate music to reading quite often as I always have mood music on.
Honestly, I can't think of a better CD to listen to while reading Stephen
King. hehehe. Although others may disagree, of course. :)
And quite a few people can remember the song they listened to when they
first "collaberated" with another. (I like that term now. hehehe).
When I read The Bible? Slayer, of course!
-- KorgX3 defines musical rape: Musical Rape: When someone makes you listen to something you don't want to and it just gets worse and worse the longer it goes on. NP: Faith No More: Album of the Year------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:34:37 -0500 (EST) From: TheCowGod <demccor@clemson.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: Meaning in Music Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.990323203001.16859B-100000@hubcap.clemson.edu>
Everyone keeps insisting that music has to have meaning, or it's pointless. I don't usually write music to convey an emotion or anything. I just write music because i love music and like to make my own. It makes me happy. But i don't have a certain emotion in mind that i'm trying to convey. Does that mean I'm not a real musician and should stop making music, since what i'm doing is pointless? Please let me know; if I have to change hobbies i'd like to get started learning the new one as soon as possible... Everyone else has several years headstart and I have to catch up. Do you need to convey emotion through needlepoint? That might be a good option. moo.
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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:38:29 -0700 From: "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Rush Message-ID: <004701be7597$0665d100$620d84d0@default>
> Someone made a comment about Rush will soon be looking like jokes on stage
Yah, Rush knows they're getting old, but they can laugh at it. Last tour after the intermission, Geddy (or Alex, I was in the nosebleed section) had some plastic toy dinosaurs on his rack and was playing with them saying, "See? We're not the ONLY dinosaurs on stage tonight." And just before they left for intermission Geddy said, "Well, we're gonna go take a break and take our Geritol." heheheh.
If they can laugh about their age, they're not too old to play. :) -- KorgX3 will be Geddy reincarnated after Geddy dies.
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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:26:13 -0800 From: "Paul Humm" <phumm@scientech.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: DT gets respect! [from jazz artists] Message-ID: <199903240226.TAA13575@if.scientech.com>
> From: "Robert Newcomb" <newcombr@netdot.com> > I was just fucking around and found this really cool site. McCoy Tyner who > used to play keys for John Coltrane has this site in which he give a TON of > praise to our DT boys. Pretty cool. Here is the addy. > > http://pubweb.nwu.edu/~cdh191/
As much as I would love to think that one of my favorite jazz piano players is really into DT, I think it's VERY unlikely that McCoy Tyner is even aware that this web site exists. I think it's pretty obvious that the site was created by some guy who's into both DT and the John Coltrane Quartet, and who thought it would be cool to have an image of McCoy Tyner "narrate" the web site.
It would be interesting though to hear what McCoy Tyner (or Thelonious Monk, or John Coltrane, or Miles Davis, etc.) would think of Dream Theater's music, or of the prog-metal genre in general. That speculation reminds me of a mildly humorous anecdote about Thelonious Monk. Non-jazz fans feel free to skip this:
A reporter once asked Thelonious Monk what type of music he liked. He responded, "I like all types of music." The reporter then asked him if he liked country music. Thelonious did not respond. The reporter asked again if he liked country music. Thelonious still did not respond. Finally, Thelonious turned to a friend and said, "is this guy hard of hearing?"
(My description may not be exactly accurate, but it went something like that.)
-Paul
------------- Paul Humm phumm@scientech.com
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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 21:47:19 -0800 From: "Matt Molite" <ytsejam11@dreamtheater.zzn.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: LTE regressive? Message-ID: <199903231850292@ytsejam11.dreamtheater.zzn.com>
>To me it sounds like stuff we've already heard from JP. >It's not a leap deserving a new band name. I would KILL for the >complete >songs from the out takes from his instructional video. Or more of >the >AoImpact style playing. That was a great strong new JP sound there >to me. >LTE seems to be a bit regressive...
IMO, I find that JP's playing on LTE sounds the most original that Ive heard him do. I can find more spots on FII where I can say "ok, here he's doing some Morse stuff, etc" than on LTE. I find that LTE was the first time Ive heard him on an album with a style that was just "JP" rather than "JP with some Morse and DiMeola runs" or whatever.
BTW, the song on JP's instructional video is called "Gemini" and theres an MP3 of it on the "Unofficial John Petrucci Homepage." Don't have the addy handy, but I believe the link is on UACM.
+----------------------------------+ |A daily dose of eMpTyV will flush | |your mind right down the drain - | | | | Mike Portnoy | +----------------------------------+ Visit the Official Dream Theater Website at http://www.dreamtheater.net/ ___________________________________________________________ Get your own Web-based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com
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Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 04:59:16 +0100 From: Steffen Barabasch <TheMirror@westend.com> To: Ytsejam <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: Messages in Music Message-ID: <v04020a01b31e10cc2632@[194.8.196.143]>
Hi!
>As I took a shit 5 minutes ago, something else came to my mind about
Always a good source of inspiration...
>conveyed through a piece of music...ever listen to something and have >something happen to you and from that point on when you hear that song, >all you ever think about is that moment?
Erm, yes, when I hear "Road To Nowhere" by the Talking Heads I always remember myself programming this stupid TI99/4a as a teenager. Seems like I'm a computer nerd for quite a while now...
Interesting enough, I don't connect anything with Marillion or DT albums, because their music is so fooking brilliant that I heard it so long and so often that it's impossible to think of a special time or even event.
Steffen -- Steffen Barabasch (mailto:TheMirror@westend.com)
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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 23:03:34 EST From: AnalogGal@aol.com To: jhallum@bu-ast.bu.edu, event@dreamt.org, ytsejam@axnet.net, Subject: Re: Event and Crucible 03/19/99 Message-ID: <8fd44235.36f86416@aol.com>
I'm with Jeremy on this one! The show was great. A big tip of the hat to Shaun for getting up there with Crucible!!! A true pro (and a real sweetie- pie, to boot). :) If Dave Esposito's wife had a boy, they should name him after Mr. Michaud!
Christina (Ginger Spice's evil twin and Event's best-looking fan)
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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:39:28 -0800 From: "Mark Philpot" <griphiam@ccnet.com> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Tensing up when playing fast... What to work on... Message-ID: <000a01be75b0$53f1c500$5c8a15cf@markphil>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Jam,
Ok, all you musicians in the Jam, would you please offer your advise to = a fellow musician.
I'm a pretty decent guitar player and I'm teaching my self drums (though = I have an extensive musical background in piano and trumpet). However, = I when I ever I try to play fast on guitar or drums... my arms tense up = and I don't think it's what they're susposed to do. Like how do you = pick fast and not tense up and flail and same with drums on really fast = sixteenth note or sextuplet patters?
Thanks
Mark Philpot http://www.ccnet.com/~griphiam/musiccreations.htm
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2014.210" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#c0c0c0> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Jam,</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Ok, all you musicians in the Jam, = would you=20 please offer your advise to a fellow musician.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">I'm a pretty decent guitar player = and I'm=20 teaching my self drums (though I have an extensive musical background in = piano=20 and trumpet). However, I when I ever I try to play fast on guitar = or=20 drums... my arms tense up and I don't think it's what they're susposed = to=20 do. Like how do you pick fast and not tense up and flail and same = with=20 drums on really fast sixteenth note or sextuplet patters?</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Thanks</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Mark Philpot</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"><A=20 href=3D"http://www.ccnet.com/~griphiam/musiccreations.htm">http://www.ccn= et.com/~griphiam/musiccreations.htm</A></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 21:18:20 -0800 (PST) From: Conrad Chi <uchic00@umail.ucsb.edu> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: NEVERMORE/ICED EARTH/ DESTINY'sEND tour Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.990323211450.20106A-100000@bergman.umail.ucsb.edu>
I have heard rumors that put NEVERMORE/ICED EARTh/and DESTINY's END together for a tour at the end of May. It hasn't been confirmed yet. Los Angeles is one of the cities that they will hit. These are bands that I want to like, but haven't really impressed me all that much. If they tour, I will probably still go to support the music scene and all.
my brother's band and the newest band on Metal Blade, opened for MORBID ANGEL in LA. They will also open for DESTINY's END at a bikini bar in Pasadena on Saturday April 3rd I think. Don't ask me why a power metal band with a death/black metal will play in a bikini bar.
-- Conrad Chi uchic00@umail.ucsb.edu
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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 23:44:56 -0600 From: Kevin Carmouche <khc@bellsouth.net> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: Rush Message-ID: <4.1.19990323234019.0093c4c0@mail.msy.bellsouth.net>
well, that would be a shock, considering how long they've been together. Can't say I'd be sorry though...I'd love to hear what Neil Peart can do in a different band setting without Geddy Lee's vocals screwing things up...sorry, was never able to really get into Rush because of him, he drives me nuts, though I'm sure there are many who disagree...but Geddy Lee is probably the singer I'd vote #1 in the "singer who screws up a band" category. Neil may be looking onwards to other things also, He's just put out a couple Buddy Rich tribute albums(both of which are SUPERB) and maybe now I'll be able to appreciate him even more...:) He may go start his own big band or something..heh
>Hey Jammers, > >I have heard a disturbing rumor that Neil Peart has announced >that RUSH will be no more. > >I very much want this to be false. If anyone else has heard >anything remotely close to this rumor from a reliable source, >please post it! > >RUSH just can't quit...... > > >-Jeff E.
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Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 00:43:24 -0500 (EST) From: TheCowGod <demccor@clemson.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: NEVERMORE/ICED EARTH/ DESTINY'sEND tour Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.990324004209.2470C-100000@hubcap.clemson.edu>
> From: Conrad Chi <uchic00@umail.ucsb.edu> > Subject: NEVERMORE/ICED EARTH/ DESTINY'sEND tour > > > my brother's band and the newest band on Metal Blade, opened > for MORBID ANGEL in LA. They will also open for DESTINY's END
actually, tourniquet just signed to metal blade, so that makes them the newest band on metal blade. yay, maybe now we can actually find their cds in stores. of course, ordering em direct from the band and getting em signed isn't all that bad either. moo.
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Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 00:51:46 EST From: Vampyrized@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: WANTED Message-ID: <88aa6da9.36f87d72@aol.com>
WANTED- any video's of any of the four LTE shows. i have a few DT and LTE bootlegs to trade for any one who is interested in setting up a trade.
-Nick
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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 21:56:38 PST From: "Matt Gonzales" <matt_gonzales@excite.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Something about "sound and fury"... Message-ID: <922254998.15551.764@excite.com>
Hold on, I'm sure I've got a couple of pennies in my pocket...Ahh, yes.
Let me preface my post by saying that I used to vehemently oppose the idea that all music has to have meaning. And while I still believe that this is true, rest assured that all true "art" has meaning.
Now hold on, before some of you start to reply, hear me out. People have always attempted to express what is inside of them that can not always be done with mere words (though some might argue that Shakespeare came closer than anyone else). I'm talking of things that transcend our perceptions and give us reason to live. Call that what you want (for the record, I call it God).
Anyway, there are those people that have been able to express themselves in such a way that their expression has been praised and appreciated for literally centuries. If those works didn't have meaning, they would have been forgotten, I assure you. That's the difference between say, Britany Spears and Beethoven, Harlequin Romance novels and Hamlet or that "Keep on Truckin'" bumper sticker and Da Vinci's Mona Lisa. The bottom line is that every "artist" says something in their works, even if it's "I don't give a shit if you like this or not, but I can make anything I want, so there!" But when you experience something that keeps you in awe whenever you hear or see it, that's the stuff, man. And you can bet there's meaning in that.
Oh well, that's what I think.
Mr. Matt matt_gonzales@excite.com
_______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/
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Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 00:03:42 -0600 From: "Christopher W. Ptacek" <someone@prognosis.com> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: catch my drift Message-ID: <00f201be75bc$1896f3c0$1a3cfea9@scubaminky>
> From: "Robert Newcomb" <newcombr@netdot.com> > Subject: DT gets respect! > > I was just fucking around and found this really cool site. McCoy Tyner who > used to play keys for John Coltrane has this site in which he give a TON of > praise to our DT boys. Pretty cool. Here is the addy. > > http://pubweb.nwu.edu/~cdh191/
This is a little too freaky to believe. I am having some of the faculty here at NIU look into this and see if McCoy has ANYTHING to do with this web page. In fact, I may first do a little searching on my own, seeing as the user's ID is there in the URL. If this is true, that will be GREAT to throw at some of the cats here at school. If not, I'm gonna see about getting the site taken down. Last thing I'd want myself is a page talking about how Madsman is a big Smashing Pumpkins fan or something like that!
> From: Chris Calabrese <ccalabr1@ic3.ithaca.edu> > Subject: Re: Meaning in Music
> Christopher W. Ptacek wrote: > >I think Cyberduke's lady friend brings up an entirely valid point. ALL > music should >convey a message. I don't understand how anyone could > disagree with that. If it doesn't >communicate anything, you'd never > understand it, and it would never be worth listening to. > > I totally disagree..
More power to you. >.you couldn't be more wrong.
You sound awfully certain. It seems to me that this is pretty subjective.
> Music doesn't necessarily have to convey some sort of message.
Why do people need a beat when they want to dance? Why do people listen to specific music at specific times? Why do kids crank up some Pantera when they're pissed off? Why do you listen to music? Why does one person playing a solo mean something totally different from someone else playing it (Try Lane's All Along the Watchtower as compared to Jimi's). How can you walk away from a piece of music feeling different if it means nothing? How can you have an opinion of good or bad about a piece of music if it means nothing? We listen for more than just technique. When I was a kid, all I needed was fast guitars. I was a kid. I was impressed by the technical feat. It meant that the person had worked hard. I listen to maybe 10 of the albums I listened to back then. Why? Because these carried some meaning for me, where others seemed not to.
> The closest thing to a > message could be a bunch of musicians shredding it up cuz its fun, then > you the listener can sit back and say, "Damn, I think that's cool." And > that's fine. I do that with a lot of musicians like Vai, Satch, LTE,
I didn't put a value judgement on that kind of listening, did I? Didn't I say in my last post, just how subjective this could be? But here's an interesting point. What made you say "Damn, I think that's cool." I'd argue that you got some sort of meaning from it. I'm not talking about a Stained Class Judas Priest "Go shoot your mother" kind of meaning, or even a "Life is filled with happy sauce" meaning. I'm talking about the fact that music communicated with you... something spoke to you and you thought it was cool. That's how I see it. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm right about that happening to me.
> and The Dregs. Music isn't a competition...
I fully agree with this. I have never stated otherwise.
> it's just a bunch of people > having fun and sharing that fun with the listener.
Sharing... you mean... the musicians do something and the listener takes something away during and hopefully after hearing the piece? That's all I'm talking about. Some music conveys "A good fucking time" like "Summer Song." Some conveys a sad time like "Bumblebee Crash Landing" and some speaks a tongue we can understand but not put into words, as does "For the Love of God" and for me, anything Michael Hedges did and most of what Becker has done. Now, some songs convey different meanings to different people, but some seem to convey the same meanings to most open ears. "Forbidden City" (Friedman's Dragon Kiss) would hardly suggest catacombs and witchcraft and obscene references to obscene Lovecraft gods to most of you... but as a result of what I was reading when I listened to this song for the first 10 times, that's what it has come to mean to me. I hardly think that if I was reading "Walden" that I would think the music brings a natural serenity, nor do I think that if I was listening to Raffe, that I would think Raffe was an evil necromanc--okay, bad example. But I think you see where I'm coming from.
> Some of you try to make it so much more than that. > Sometimes that fun could have a deep meaning, but it doesn't have to.
I agree. I think "A good time" is the mood that's trying to be conveyed by a LOT of music, ESPECIALLY pop music. Maybe that gets to the root of why some people on this list dislike pop music. Or perhaps it has nothing to do with it. I still agree with your above statement, though you may not agree with it yourself, if you insist that music doesn't convey a meaning. Depth is in the eye of the beholder. I'd hardly flinch at 5 feet of water, as I'm 6 feet tall. My girlfriend would have to learn how to float, really fast.
> And another thing! This is more pointed at everyone on the jam! I read > something like this in an interview with Kerry Livgren of Kansas - The > only person that can truly interpret a 'message' in a song is the person > who writes it. It is impossible to get into that person's head. With > that in mind, each and every listener draws their own distinct > conclusions about the 'message' in a piece of music.
I said just this before I sort of went off on a rant about LTE. You can't get into the composer's head, but you can try. You can't get into a speaker's head when you're hearing a speech or attending a clinic... but you can certainly communicate and try to understand the point that's being made. Music, to me as a musician, is more a language than it is a hobby or a fun activity. I try to express something in what I write and what I improvise. I think most people do. Otherwise, why would Pantera's "Fucking Hostile" not just be played over a major ii - V7 - I progression, or a I - IV - V (typical blues for those of you to whom this is like speaking Roman to)?
> As I took a shit 5 minutes ago, something else came to my mind about > this subject. I thought of another way emotion and feelings can be > conveyed through a piece of music...ever listen to something and have > something happen to you and from that point on when you hear that song, > all you ever think about is that moment? It could be a purely musical > connection or it could be more.
I think I sort of pre-responded to this with the Forbidden City thing. Had you been listening to Cannibal Corpse's "Tomb of the Mutilated" I doubt it would have had a linking imagery effect... so I think there's a case to be made that certain music predisposes you to feeling a certain way, or at least, presents a better opportunity for such an emotional effect, when combined with the right mood, environment, etc.
The King Crimson DVD is astounding, BTW
- Chris
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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 22:33:16 -0800 From: drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh) To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: NEW DREAM THEATER PAGE!!!! Message-ID: <199903240633.WAA23411@gms.gmsnet.com>
Before being sacrificed upon the altar..., vecchio@satlink.com thus begged: > >Please! Visit my page at: http://webs.satlink.com/usuarios/v/vecchio/ >they have a nice MP3 file of Dream Theater, is a Elton John song called >"Goodbye Yellow Brick Road". > >Thank You! > >
The only reason you can call this a DT page is because you have one mp3 on it, the rest has nothing to do with DT...
-The Doc
-- *#&*@#@*(#@#*@(#!@*#(!@#(&!#(@!*#@((#@$(#@(($@#($(#@$@#($@#(*$@(*$*(#(#(##(#(# computersarefasterthanhumans - devastatetoinnovate - hyperspacialparallelcomp\ drkhoe@gmsnet.com = http://progmetal.gmsnet.com = internetcyberwetwaregamedev+ s*o#o$n@@c*o!m^e)s@@t>h<e@@|d~i+g-i%t%a.l@@<M><E><S><S><I><A><H> gaMECoReTeKN0
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