YTSEJAM Digest 5144
Today's Topics:
1) Re: fx of dt nusic on normal minds (mceachern)
by JamesAhab@aol.com
2) SFAM story, comments *** SPOILER ***
by Bobby Tufino <slimegod@bellsouth.net>
3) Re: SFaM *Spoilers*
by Alan Estrada <alan_estrada@bigfoot.com>
4) Re: SMPTe
by "sK@RRe" <sdts@home.se>
5) RE: McKean's SFaM cover
by "Dave Thomas" <dthomas@best.com>
6) rtk
by Bobby Tufino <slimegod@bellsouth.net>
7) met2-SFaM
by Olivier Ouellet <olio@videotron.ca>
8) What is that thing on my CD?
by JamesAhab@aol.com
9) Re: SFaM story (* major spoilers if you don't have the disc yet*)
by NuGgeTMaN <emoeglin@wezl.org>
10) Houston DT release party, my thoughts on the cd and lyrics
by Brad Plumb <bplumb@pi-r-squared.com>
11) Question on Home
by Stephen LaMonica <sl080890@mailhost.sju.edu>
12) oh yah and the scratching at the end
by Brad Plumb <bplumb@pi-r-squared.com>
13) Re: SFaM story (* major spoilers if you don't have the disc yet*)
by JamesAhab@aol.com
14) Re: What is that thing on my CD?
by NuGgeTMaN <emoeglin@wezl.org>
15) First impressions
by "Charlie Hamilton" <charlie@dreamtheater.zzn.com>
16) Re: Question on Home
by NuGgeTMaN <emoeglin@wezl.org>
17) Re: SFaM story (* major spoilers if you don't have the disc yet*)
by NuGgeTMaN <emoeglin@wezl.org>
18) SFaM Final Verdict
by NuGgeTMaN <emoeglin@wezl.org>
19) SFAM plot (spoilers)
by Adam Sanford <ahs8t@virginia.edu>
20) An ending idea
by Dan Wait <camera_i@yahoo.com>
21) tourbus.com
by JamesAhab@aol.com
22) Re: SFaM ending (spoilers)
by "Matt Molite" <ytsejam11@dreamtheater.zzn.com>
23) Re: SFAM plot (spoilers)
by "TheCowGod" <demccor@clemson.edu>
24) the 80s
by "mikel@alphalink.com.au" <mikel@alphalink.com.au>
25) Re: Funky Town
by Dale R Newberry <schnapster@juno.com>
26) The new album (I forget the name ;)
by Mark Peters <epididymisle@earthlink.net>
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Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:11:28 EDT
From: JamesAhab@aol.com
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: fx of dt nusic on normal minds (mceachern)
Message-ID: <0.51642187.2547c760@aol.com>
>< btw, how do you pronounce the name of the hockey player shawn McEachern?
><
Mic-eck-ern, accent on the "eck"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:14:00 -0400
From: Bobby Tufino <slimegod@bellsouth.net>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: SFAM story, comments *** SPOILER ***
Message-ID: <38166DF8.ABEE2C91@bellsouth.net>
Hey all. First, Matt B. Dude, long time! Gotta send you an email
soon, catch up. Anyway bro, I don't see how you're not JIZZING over
this record! We'll argue about this soon dude.
Okay, I think my opinion has been stated, I think it's a great album.
My favorite has always been Awake, with I&W right behind it, I mean
right behind it, and I love ACOS just about as much even though it's
just a song...I won't rate tham all or anything, but basically after
hearing this album, even moreso than before, FII seems like the "weird,
different" album. I liked it a lot, except for maybe Anna Lee, and TAMP
(the demo is great though), but it's my least favorite...anyway
basically what I'm saying is that this to me is one of their greates
albums. We've been waiting for Met. 2 for ages, and it was worth the
wait. Mike P. said in an interview once that the fans would kill them
if they didn't put it on their next album...so it's good that they did
it, this way we don't need to get their blood on our hands, easier for
us, easier for them.
Now, the story. From what I gather, yeah Nick was Victoria in a past
life...she had a thing with Julian and Edward. Julian was kind of
troubled, a gambler fixed on his habit, and Edward was...I don't know, I
get the feeling he was really fixated on her, on her ecstasy...a lot of
this comes from Home...anyway, somewhere along the line, Edward goes
bad, went wayward went into an "evil way" so she decides she will leave
him for Julian. Now I think the thing with Julian was kept from Edward,
but what confuses me is that in Home, Edward thinks "He's my brother,
but I love her" which gave me the impression that she was with Julian,
and he was with her behind HIS back, because he loved her and thought
"their other life is getting them nowhere". So I figure, she was with
Julian, Edward thought he deserved her more, he got her, possibly helped
by the fact that Julian had some problems. But back to Edward turning
evil. He turns into a dick or something, and she gets back with Julian
behind Edward's back this time. He finds out, he's jealous, he finds
out they're meeting by Echo Hill (by the way, does anyone know if this
part takes place in the city, or near the house, or what?) and I think
he was maybe planning to kill Julian, hence the prepared note...but I
think when he saw them together he lost it and attacked, he kills
Julian, and then Victoria. He plants the note, takes off...this part
confuses me. Is Edward the witness? If so, I'd think the public story
would say "a US Senator was the witness" as opposed to being so vague.
One of my friends suggested, hey he's a politician, he covered it up!
Maybe. Anyway. As far as the very end, here's what i thought until I
read some of your great interpretations. I thought Nicholas drives
home, and he's reflecting on what happened, blah blah...towards the end
of Finally Free, there's talk of a blinding light maybe this is the
light the souls are going into, and maybe it's the light the hypnotist
is calling him through. I mean he tells Nick to open his eyes, but I
don't think he really does yet. I think the acting at the end is still
going on in Nick's head, I think it's Edward going home, and hearing
news about a tragedy in Washington...ok. I know this is the Kennedy
stuff, but I think in the song, it may be referring to the tragedy of a
Senator's brother doing some crazy shit like that (maybe the Headline
part was vague for the purpose of keeping us in suspense). Anyway. I
think it's Edward going home, hearing the news, pouring himself a drink
(notice how on the back of the booklet, there's a newspaper and a glass
of something, I know it's dated the same day as the events but hey it's
just artwork...besides I'm stretching here so humor me). Anyway so yeah
Edward hears the news (which he was of course aware of) and has a drink
and puts on a record...then the Open your eyes is the therapist waking
Nick up, and now he really wakes up. Well that's my take. Gotta go,
chat's starting soon!
Bobby
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:15:23 -0500
From: Alan Estrada <alan_estrada@bigfoot.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: SFaM *Spoilers*
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991026221523.0081c570@umav04.udem.edu.mx>
At 07:54 PM 26/10/99 -0700, you wrote:
>
>> suppose, but I'm not complaining. Mike, you can come and drum out Forever
>> Free on my manboobs anyday. :)
>
>hahaha. I meant Finally Free. Had to correct myself before someone else
>corrected my... self... indeed. hehehe. Can you tell I haven't listened
>to this album much lately? :) Er. I'm just starting to. Agh! This Frank
>Zappa part scares me! *hides*
>--
>KorgX3
>
Yes I thought that there was a Zappa tribute on there too, (track 06)...
my father thinks some parts sound like moody blues...I think some of them
sound like pink floyd...
my fav tracks so far are 01, 02, 05, 07
I dont like track 06 much, I dont know why, but I like the zappa like thing
on there
>
>
>
---Alan Estrada Adler, ICQ #9267174 Monterrey, Mexico -------------------------------------------------------- http://welcome.to/thenetdom
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 05:27:15 +0200 From: "sK@RRe" <sdts@home.se> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: SMPTe Message-ID: <38167113.C6A4766E@home.se>
Matej Grginic wrote:
> >Eh......Stolt, Morse, Portnoy, Trewavas, but what's > >with the "e" at the end? > > Experiment?
Well, whatever it is, the music is going to be great! Mike played along with one of the songs from the album on the Gothenburg Drum Festival (3 October) and it was awesome! Lot's of Spocks and Flower Kings.
Andreas Skarin Svenska Dream Theater Sallskapet http://sdts.cjb.net - mailto:sdts@home.se
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:36:48 -0700 From: "Dave Thomas" <dthomas@best.com> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: RE: McKean's SFaM cover Message-ID: <001801bf202c$810c9ac0$046400c0@oemcomputer>
Speaking of McKean, if you like his art, be sure to check out "Cages", a comic that he wrote and did the art for. It's out in a collected edition now, and is well worth reading. The art is different from the stuff he's most well-known for (album covers and the covers for the "Sandman" comic series), but it's very interesting to look at. Just thought someone might be interested.
Dave Thomas - Editor, Pixel Planet Reviews of books, music, comics, movies, games, CG software, programming tools and more! http://www.pixelplanet.com
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Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:44:22 -0400 From: Bobby Tufino <slimegod@bellsouth.net> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: rtk Message-ID: <38167516.3300455D@bellsouth.net>
Hey guys...on the chat...MP said "The version of RTK with lyrics is hard to find so join our fan club hint hint" XMAS CD?
Bobby
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 00:12:31 -0400 From: Olivier Ouellet <olio@videotron.ca> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: met2-SFaM Message-ID: <01bf2031$7cfceca0$4253fdcf@default>
I haven't been able to listen to the album yet, I fall asleep after about 1 min. Then I wake up to the sound of a scratching needle.
Olio
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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 00:32:14 EDT From: JamesAhab@aol.com To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: What is that thing on my CD? Message-ID: <0.eef1faa4.2547da4e@aol.com>
Does anyone else have this thing on the inside of the case? I got mine at Tower Records, so maybe it's strictly a Tower thing. When you open the case and lift the CD out, theres a silver strip on the back insert that you can see through the clear plastic. Its a silver strip on another silver strip on top of white strip that looks like its glued to the back inside case. Is that a security thing or something? What the hell is it?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 00:33:34 -0400 From: NuGgeTMaN <emoeglin@wezl.org> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: SFaM story (* major spoilers if you don't have the disc yet*) Message-ID: <3816809E.53F61E7@wezl.org>
Wait...Matt Mommarts and I figured it out...The Hypnotist ISN't edward reincarnated...he IS edward...Victoria was young when she died...and he survived the whole thing...now my question...why the hell would a gambling senator become a Hypnotherapist???
> Joe DeAngelo wrote: > > > > IMO, the murderer of Nicholas at the end is probably the > > hypnotherapist, who is possibly the reincarnation of the Miracle.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:46:58 -0500 From: Brad Plumb <bplumb@pi-r-squared.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Houston DT release party, my thoughts on the cd and lyrics Message-ID: <2.2.32.19991027044658.0158d830@pi-r-squared.com>
Well, thanks to Nicole/Kirby, who should be resubscribing to this list soon, the Houston CD release party was a great success. Highlights of the evening included everyone singing and humming to Met p1 (which was played before we started on the new cd). I was the first to win one of the MANY prizes sent in by Rena Petrucci herself (Mr. Portnoy if you read this, please pass her our thanks). ANyway, I scored an autographed (by John P only) LTE2. As for the cd, I'll wait till further listens for reviewing. Right now I will say that I find it amazing, except some of the instrumental passages (specifically the one within Beyond this Life, and TDOE) leave me a little cold and remind me a little too much of LTE. DT instrumental passages always had a coherent thread binding them together before. Composition. However, I may find these growing on me as time goes by, and I will say that the musicianship there is AMAZING! The story is fascinating and here's my take on it, which includes some things the rest of you haven't thought about:
I agree with some of what everyone has said so far:
Julian and Victoria were lovers: but Julian was seduced by gambling (pay attention during Home folks, didn't someone quote MIke as talking about the moaning in one speaker and the gambling in the other representing the actions of the two brothers?) and due to his frequent trips of the city, Victoria finds herself going into the arms of Julian's brother, Edward for comfort. Edward is infatuated with Victoria to a point of obsession, and though he has pangs of guilt at betraying his brother, he can't turn away. Julian manages to kick his habit however, and returns to a happy Victoria, they have finally broken free of their temptations (his gambling, hers Edward?) and found true love with eachother. They rendevouz but are killed by Edward, who then covers it up as a suicide. HERE IS WHERE IT GETS INTERESTING! Boys and Girls think back to Metropolis Pt. 1:
"The both of you will be confined to this mind" "Love is the dance of eternity"
Notice that Nick repeats Victoria's AND Julian's lines often. Nick is the reincarnation of both VICTORIA AND JULIAN. When the two died, they're spirits drifted off until they found eachother again INSIDE NICK. Nick could not feel whole until he had recognized both these parts of his personality, and the two of them are now free and have reunited in true love forever.... or have they? In a surprise twist, Edward (and yes, I do think it's the hypnotherapist) shows up at the end, and history is forced to repeat itself, as he kills them yet again. One has to wonder if they'll play this little game for the rest of eternity. It's an interesting twist at the end, but I'm not sure if I like it.. However, the rest of the story line is GREAT!! Anyway, this is just my theory on the storyline. What do you guys think?
Palpatine Co Founder of NARF: The North Houston Anime Resistance Force, and Historian of Anime-no-kai "Thank God I'm an atheist" -Luis Bunel "What an incredible smell you've discovered" -Han Solo, Star Wars: A New Hope "He said I was crazy, and it's not true! Although I did try to burn his house down once..." - Werner Herzog regarding Klaus Kinski
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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 00:37:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Stephen LaMonica <sl080890@mailhost.sju.edu> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Question on Home Message-ID: <199910270437.AAA26713@polaris.sju.edu.sju.edu>
Ok, if anyone can answer this, please post or email me. In the middle of Home (the part with the citar) you can distintly hear in the right channel a woman (Victoria I assume) having an orgasm (never thought I would hear that on a DT song :), IN the left channel, there is someone talking. DOes anyone know what is being said??? I can't understand it....I don't feel like going deaf trying to crank it up either. If anyone can decipher it, let me know Thanks
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Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:49:55 -0500 From: Brad Plumb <bplumb@pi-r-squared.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: oh yah and the scratching at the end Message-ID: <2.2.32.19991027044955.0159f9e4@pi-r-squared.com>
Isn't it obvious? In the struggle the two men jar the record player causing the needles to spin and begin playing a scratching noise. We're left with it's haunting sound as the story's final thoughts. It's kind of like in movies (specifically Chinatown) when a person drives off in a car, there's a gun shot, the car suddenly slows, and the only thing you hear is the honking of the horn (as their dead body slumps on top of it).
Palpatine Co Founder of NARF: The North Houston Anime Resistance Force, and Historian of Anime-no-kai "Thank God I'm an atheist" -Luis Bunel "What an incredible smell you've discovered" -Han Solo, Star Wars: A New Hope "He said I was crazy, and it's not true! Although I did try to burn his house down once..." - Werner Herzog regarding Klaus Kinski
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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 00:46:07 EDT From: JamesAhab@aol.com To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: SFaM story (* major spoilers if you don't have the disc yet*) Message-ID: <0.2deaec80.2547dd8f@aol.com>
>< Also, I'm glad it's all a little ambiguous, and not TOO CLEAR. It would be kinda boring if they spelled it all out for us, and answered ALL the questions. By including that ending (which annoyed me after the first listen because I was like "WHAT THE FUCK!?"... but now i think it's brilliant), it left some mystery for us to discuss! ><
Yes, but it shouldn't be *too* ambiguous. When doing an ending like that, I think the person creating the ending should have an idea of what they want it to be, then take anything obvious and hide it. So maybe in the mind of whoever came up with the ending, there's a clear-cut solution. But they wanted the fans to be confused, but only a little. I'm having a hard time explaining this. Ever see "Resevoir Dogs"? The ending is *so* ambiguous that there's no possible way it could've happened, unless it was caused by something way out in left field that no one watching the movie would ever think of cuz there would be no reason to. Ugh...nevermind. i don't even understand what I'm saying. Alls I know is that Nicholas' scream scared me,
>< OK, one more thing..... Does anybody have ANY clue why Julian and the senator are called The Miracle, and The Sleeper? I mean, aside from the obvious - just to connect it to Metro pt. 1. The boys have to come up with SOME reason for the nicknames, otherwise it seems a tad silly (I'd settle for any explanation, even if it's a bit of a stretch). ><
Metropolis Part 1 is the story of two brothers, the miracle and the sleeper. So since there were two brothers in M2, I guess they gave them that name. There is some connection.
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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 00:46:21 -0400 From: NuGgeTMaN <emoeglin@wezl.org> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: What is that thing on my CD? Message-ID: <3816839D.24FBAEE5@wezl.org>
Yeah, a sensor tag...many record companies are manufacturing them randomly on every so many discs
JamesAhab@aol.com wrote: > > Does anyone else have this thing on the inside of the case? I got mine at > Tower Records, so maybe it's strictly a Tower thing. When you open the case > and lift the CD out, theres a silver strip on the back insert that you can > see through the clear plastic. Its a silver strip on another silver strip on > top of white strip that looks like its glued to the back inside case. Is that > a security thing or something? What the hell is it?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:45:46 -0400 From: "Charlie Hamilton" <charlie@dreamtheater.zzn.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: First impressions Message-ID: <199910262142562@charlie.dreamtheater.zzn.com>
My first reaction to this cd was: "Oh shit, this cd is bad-ass!" I can definitely hear all of the relative DT "oldies". On a note of the 80's not being hip, well, I am only 16, younger than our other friend, and I know about all of the greatest bands. I'm pretty sure I could hold my own with even 70's music. I dont think being young has any limitations as to what you know about the greatest music. It just depends on how much of a music-lover you are!
Charlie
Dream Theater newsletter - http://www.dreamtheater.net/uacmmail/ ___________________________________________________________ Get your own Web-based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com
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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 00:51:39 -0400 From: NuGgeTMaN <emoeglin@wezl.org> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Question on Home Message-ID: <381684DB.8F103397@wezl.org>
It's a person gambling, and you're hearing the person running the table. One brother had a gambling addiction (I think it's Ed) and the other a sex addiction...Julian...I also think he was addicted to coke...this lines to get high.
Stephen LaMonica wrote: > > Ok, if anyone can answer this, please post or email me. In the middle of > Home (the part with the citar) you can distintly hear in the right channel > a woman (Victoria I assume) having an orgasm (never thought I would hear > that on a DT song :), IN the left channel, there is someone talking. DOes > anyone know what is being said??? I can't understand it....I don't feel > like going deaf trying to crank it up either. If anyone can decipher it, > let me know > Thanks
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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 00:56:56 -0400 From: NuGgeTMaN <emoeglin@wezl.org> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: SFaM story (* major spoilers if you don't have the disc yet*) Message-ID: <38168618.2AAED895@wezl.org>
The Miracle...The gambling Senator who hits it big...thus why Victoria wanted to go back with him...The Sleeper...addicted to sex and Cocaine...sleepy...but he loved her more, so she went back to him after going back to The Miracle...Musical Victoria's
JamesAhab@aol.com wrote: > > >< > >< OK, one more thing..... Does anybody have ANY clue why Julian and the > senator are called The Miracle, and The Sleeper? I mean, aside from the > obvious - just to connect it to Metro pt. 1. The boys have to come up with > SOME reason for the nicknames, otherwise it seems a tad silly (I'd settle for > any explanation, even if it's a bit of a stretch). ><
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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 01:06:00 -0400 From: NuGgeTMaN <emoeglin@wezl.org> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: SFaM Final Verdict Message-ID: <38168838.F4571F5F@wezl.org>
I have it all figured out, with no loose ends (I don't think)
so here ya go...The Miracle...Edward...Senator and Gambler The Sleeper...Julian...Coke addict and sex addict...but dedicated to Victoria
Julian and V are together originally...but she can't deal with his coke addiction she dumps him for Edward...who strikes it big in a casino (the the Miracle) cause she's a greedy little slut After a little fling with him, she decides he's a selfish bastard gambling senator...just like all of them are...and decides to go back to cokeguy...who's cleaned up a bit, but still shags like a porn star
Edward finds out...even though he's not supposedta...and kills them both, puts the letter in Julians pocket, and acts as the witness...then ditches the politician BS to mask himself...becomes a psycologist...Enter Nicholas a couple years down the road
All the story happens to Nicholas through hypnotherapy, and ed realises that Nich has figured out some shit he doesn't need to know about...so he follows Nich to his place, and kills him while he's enjoying a beaverage and jamming to old-ass school Dream Theater on vinyl Damn I'm good! There you have it
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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 01:09:40 -0400 From: Adam Sanford <ahs8t@virginia.edu> To: ytsejam <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: SFAM plot (spoilers) Message-ID: <199910270509.BAA24728@unix.mail.Virginia.EDU>
Hey all,
Okay, I'm pissed, I lost a good 3 page e-mail (detailing little nuances in the plot that mean important things) when my computer crashed.
So here's the abridged version:
N = nick M = miracle (Edward) S = sleeper (Julian) V = victoria
1) I agree, N was V in a past life, and M killed S and V, framing a murder/suicide. It's all there in the lyrics.
2) At the end, I agree the psychotherapist was the next life of M and then killed N upon realizing he was once V in a past life.
Reasons for this:
a) sounds of struggle and alarm at psychotherapist's voice b) relationship to old M 'open your eyes' (OYE) dialgoue: (OYE means 'It's time to end psychotherapy' during the therapy, but it means 'Don't you get it, here I am, the Miracle, and you're dead again, Victoria!') c) psychotherapist *knew* that life goes on after death (at the end of fatal tragedy when he says death is merely a transition), suggesting the psychotherapist went through this transition before (as M).
3) Fatal Tragedy is in Nick's present day life. He refers to waking up from dreams of someone, and needing to get to the bottom of it. I think Fatal Tragedy is the beginning of the present day Nick timeline -- he has visions/dreams, sees the psychotherapist for help, and then the past unfolds in therapy.
4) Given (3) above, I think the old man (a present day character) is the next life of S (Julian).
Reasons for this:
a) N somehow trusts the old man right away (they were past lovers) b) The old man somehow knows N will find the truth someday
5) The suicide note is written in two parts (look *under* the CD in the jewel case, it's all there):
the first part is from Beyond This Life the second part is from M's fake writing
*Possibly* M wrote the first part in a note to V to lure V and S together so he could kill them both. The 2nd part was to seal the frame-up... Maybe.
. . .
Asides:
1) I'm pretty sure that that's Bear Tracks Studios on the back of the CD. What a waste of art when they could be giving us clues (a la 'Exit... Stage Left')! Perhaps Bear Tracks represents 'Home', but still it's a waste to me.
2) Fatal Tragedy is the worst song title I've ever heard. When are tragedies not fatal? It sounds so stupid.
3) The Miracle and Sleeper names are just to match the old song, it seems. Why would the bad guy be the Miracle, anyway? If anyone should be the sleeper, it should be N or V, right?
4) Go see 'Dead Again', a film from 1991. MP and company *MUST* have used this film as their primary inspiration, as the (psychotherapy/murder/continued lives/murder in two time frames) thing in that movie is a dead ringer for SFAM. Great movie, too!
GREAT ALBUM!!! Musically, I think it lacks the instrumental and vocal hooks of the older stuff, but the mystery/story/drama easily makes up for it.
Adam S.
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Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:26:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Dan Wait <camera_i@yahoo.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: An ending idea Message-ID: <19991027052603.5190.rocketmail@web302.mail.yahoo.com>
Ok, I'm sure we all know the words to Met1, but just to review: "Death is the first dance eternal"; "Deceit is the second with out end"; "The third is love, love is the dance of eternity".
And in SFAM, there's the past (where Victoria dies) - this might correspond w/ Death; there's the 'present' - the words of Fatal Tragedy seem to correspond w/ deceit; and then at the very end, Nicolas is told "open your eyes"... for the second time. I guess one might call this the 'future', since we don't know what happens - might this correspond w/ the third, love?
I dunno, just a thought
Two more quick questions: 1) assuming that Ed killed Victoria and Julian, why is he the Miracle? Miracles are supposed to be good... ? 2) I haven't looked yet, but is the band going to post an 'official' version at any point?
-Dan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 01:21:31 EDT From: JamesAhab@aol.com To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: tourbus.com Message-ID: <0.3584e72f.2547e5db@aol.com>
Whats up with that tourbus.com site where you can send some questions for Mike when he does that radio interview in saturday. you click on the dream theater link and some picture from 1988 comes up. i see nothing about submitting any question.
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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 01:35:28 -0400 From: "Matt Molite" <ytsejam11@dreamtheater.zzn.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: SFaM ending (spoilers) Message-ID: <199910262233172@ytsejam11.dreamtheater.zzn.com>
I do agree with the people that say that Nicholas is Victoria reincarnated and that the Hypnotherapist is The Miracle. Nicholas goes home and The Miracle follows him. Now, I believe that once the Hypnotherapist (Miracle) startles Nicholas, the ending is still very much open ended. A common theme throughout this story seems to be that history is repeating itself. There is also that "knife" logo in the booklet that was brought to my attention. Nicholas states in the present, "we'll meet again my friend, some day soon" as he leaves for his home, maybe reffering to his killer (THe Miracle). About the knife, in Beyond this Life it is stated
"had a violent struggle taken place? There was every sign that lead there. Witness found a switchblade on the ground. Was the victim unaware?"
Perhaps Victoria knew The Miracle might try to attack her and the Sleeper, so she had armed herself with a knife? There is also the struggle that happened before The Miracle ever got any rounds off to kill The Sleeper and then Victoria. Before this struggle takes place there is a man screaming, as if startled. This is also near identical to the startled noise Nicholas makes at the end of the disc. And theres also the line "open your eyes victoria" and "open your eyes nicholas" that parallel each other in the past and present.
So,if going by the theme of history repeating itself, perhaps this time Nicholas is ready for The Miracle? Remember he states that he knows he will have to confront him again. It is not stated that THe Miracle does indeed kill Nicholas, it leaves off at the struggle part of the confrontation. Weather you think Nicholas learns from the past and kills The Miracle or if The Miracle does wind up killing Nicholas may relate to how much of an optimist or pessimist you personally are ;-)
my two cents....oh yeah, and Fatal Tragedy is the most kick ass song DT has ever recorded :-)
Matt +----------------------------------+ |Our deeds have traveled far | |What we have been is what we are | | | | - John Petrucci| +----------------------------------+ Dream Theater newsletter - http://www.dreamtheater.net/uacmmail/ ___________________________________________________________ Get your own Web-based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com
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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 02:39:33 -0400 From: "TheCowGod" <demccor@clemson.edu> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: SFAM plot (spoilers) Message-ID: <001701bf2046$07af6d00$702010ac@clemson.edu>
]From: Adam Sanford <ahs8t@virginia.edu> Subject: SFAM plot (spoilers)
> 5) The suicide note is written in two parts (look *under* the CD in the > jewel case, it's all there): > > the first part is from Beyond This Life > the second part is from M's fake writing
they both look like the same handwriting, i think its only in two parts cuz of the rhyme scheme... i think.
> 1) I'm pretty sure that that's Bear Tracks Studios on the back of the CD. > What a waste of art when they could be giving us clues (a la 'Exit... Stage > Left')! Perhaps Bear Tracks represents 'Home', but still it's a waste to > me.
im almost positive it is meant to be Home. perhaps they used beartracks cuz hey, they were there, but the picture on the back looks exactly like (in fact, you can tell its the same building as) the 2-color picture printed on the promo of Home sent out to radio stations (http://wsbf.clemson.edu/cowgod/crap/sfam/home-cd.jpg). so i think its safe to assume that's a Home. besides, why would they print a picture of the outside of their recording studio but no pictures of the band themselves? :) moo.
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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:50:46 +1000 From: "mikel@alphalink.com.au" <mikel@alphalink.com.au> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: the 80s Message-ID: <3816A0C6.4BC7D400@alphalink.com.au>
Just to clarify, I have different opinions on the 80s than those that I mentioned- otherwise I wouldnt like DT. I like many bands from the 80s, its my classmates who don't.
> Explain bands like KoRn, Pantera, Metallica, Sting, Red Hot Chili > Peppers, Nine Inch Nails, David Bowie, Van Halen, Beastie Boys, etc who > always seem to chart well.
Its not really these sort of bands that I'm talking about. Its the cheesy bands. Ever heard the 80s refered to as "the decade that taste forgot"?
> And for what it's worth, I can guarantee you that in 10 years, people > will be making fun of people who wore big pants ("Big Pants, Bigger Loser" - > AC) the same way they made fun of bell bottoms, floods, and spandex. That's > one reason I wear clothes my size. :) You are living within the grasp of a > trend....
exactly. The thing with the 80s was that there was a lot of great stuff going on under the mainstream- shred, the beginning of techno (not great in our opinion, but it has nevertheless surfaced as a strong genre), the beginning of grunge, Metallica. However when kids see pictures of the 80s they don't see this, they see the mainstream pop bands- many of which were just disgusting. Remember also, that during the 70s and 80s a lot of music from the psychadelic era was dismissed as "hippy crap". However bands like Pink Floyd, the Doors and Led Zeppelin are now held in very high regard and people realised that beneath disco and Beatles copy-cat bands, there was a whole lot of great music.Yep, when a style gets very popular, a lot of real bad
> stuff gets released. It's the gravy train. Record > companies will back any shit "artist" if it's the > current style and they think they can make some money. > Popular styles breed a lot of crap at the time. That's > just the way it works.
true, and im not saying that the 90s is devoid of this. It always amazes me, how people can persecute the 80s whilst songs like the Macerana and that first Spice Girl song get popular. Oh and this guys response got on my nerves...
> Ha ha you have absolutely no idea how stupid you sound , were you going to see > bands during this time?
and then he said this...
> Yes, you're right, that's because you're 17 but it doesn't make you right.
please explain. wake up to the fact, that KIDS DONT LIKE THE 80s.
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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 01:45:32 -0500 From: Dale R Newberry <schnapster@juno.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Funky Town Message-ID: <19991027.020953.3190.0.schnapster@juno.com>
>Dale: Funky Town, eh?You're dating yourself, dude :) Well, it's about the only way I can get a date :).
Just got back from catching George Clinton and the P-Funk All Stars. Let me say, that the funk was in the house tonight. Whew, I think they played for about three hours straight (no intermission).Only problem was that the sound mix sucked a big fat one. I did notice that the guitarists played some heavier riffs here and there, which was a nice, pleasant surprise for me, and there were some killer leads, too.
Now, tomorrow, The Misfits and Gwar, woohoo!!!!!!! (I go to too many shows :).
Dale R. Newberry
P.S. Picked up SFAM, but haven't listened to it yet (I want to do it when I can sit back and listen to the whole thing straight through (maybe on the drive to Kansas tomorrow, Rob? :). I also picked up 'Tage's EOT and Tempest's 10th Anniversary Compilation used, so I think this was a good day for music, eh?
NP: ringing in my ears
___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 03:02:55 -0500 From: Mark Peters <epididymisle@earthlink.net> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: The new album (I forget the name ;) Message-ID: <3816B1AF.6E76@earthlink.net>
> Also, I'm glad it's all a little ambiguous, and not TOO CLEAR. It would > be kinda boring if they spelled it all out for us, and answered ALL the > questions.
And to think we thought 77.5 minutes of music was once considered "getting your money's worth." Impeccable job, guys.
You fuckers are smarter than I am, so I'll just read 'jams instead of putting in my two worthless confederate cents :) I already admitted my slowness, so I'm not ashamed to admit that I never considered that the Miracle could have been reincarnated also.
And Mike, if you read this, please don't lift this new veil of mystery for a while. All of this speculation is too much fun :)
Hopefully DT won't get sued by my boss. I've been...distracted at work the last two days.
Take care, everyone, Mark Peters epididymisle@earthlink.net
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 5144 **************************
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