YTSEJAM Digest 5461
Today's Topics:
1) Re: ordering Nightwish CD's
by Janne Jokitalo <janne_jokitalo@yahoo.com>
2) Singer Wanted!!!!
by MAD1661@aol.com
3) Matt B and keyboards
by "Christopher W. Ptacek" <someone@digitalrodent.com>
4) god, ged, the snapstah head!
by Jon Parmet <jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
5) what else?
by szebro1@gl.umbc.edu
6) more Napster
by Brian Hansen <bhansen10@yahoo.com>
7) RIO, more Napster
by Digital Man <cmerlo@optical.mindstorm.com>
8) Yes stuff....
by schew@interzone.com (Steve Chew)
9) REALLY TIRED OF NAPSTER
by Kurt M Hampton <kurt.hampton@juno.com>
10) D-man's Words
by "Webmaster Ytsejam.com" <webmaster@ytsejam.com>
11) Re: MP3s, Napster
by NShh641@aol.com
12) Re: PoS
by Mike Patrick <mikeepatrick@yahoo.com>
13) Napster and copying music....
by schew@interzone.com (Steve Chew)
14) RE: D-man's Words
by "Todd O. Klindt, MCSE" <todd@klindt.org>
15) Re: Pain of Salvation
by Janne Jokitalo <janne_jokitalo@yahoo.com>
16) metallica CHAT TRANSCRIPT posted on their official site
by "Tibor Varady 2.0" <lawinen@freemail.hu>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 01:07:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Janne Jokitalo <janne_jokitalo@yahoo.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: ordering Nightwish CD's
Message-ID: <20000504080758.17935.qmail@web313.mail.yahoo.com>
--- Robb Muise <robbm@shore.net> wrote:
>
> DAMMIT i don't wanna order something from Finland.
ewww... Why not ?
- Winger
/me lives in that particular country...
=====
Janne Jokitalo
Boss Information: jaska@boss.fi
Jyväskylä University: jajokita@st.jyu.fi
Homepage: http://www.jyu.fi/~jajokita
__________________________________________________
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Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 11:47:47 EDT
From: MAD1661@aol.com
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Singer Wanted!!!!
Message-ID: <db.3a84749.2642f5a3@aol.com>
Dave Weiner from Vai's Band is looking for a singer for a new band project...
If you are in the LA area and would like to audition for it then give me an
email with your name and the best way to contact you.. My email is
mad1661@aol.com
for additional info goto www.daveweiner.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 11:19:21 -0500
From: "Christopher W. Ptacek" <someone@digitalrodent.com>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Matt B and keyboards
Message-ID: <00b801bfb5e4$827463e0$f3b7fea9@madstation>
You can get a decent full size midi controller from Fatar (at Guitar Center)
for somewhere around $150. You can get a Roland PC 200 for $200 or so.
They now also make a USB model that eliminates the need for the joystick
port midi adaptor (and clears up some latency, but not the latency inherent
to midi itself)
These will not have ANY sounds. They will only transmit midi data. Along
with this, you either need to interface with your computer and its sound
card or synth software, or you will need a sound module.
The other option is to look into full keyboards. If you're going to do
this, drop me a private email and I'll get you in direct contact with some
people who know more about this than I do.
"If you had a neck and I had hands, I would
squeeze your brain, which is your body,
right out the top of your head, which does
not exist!" - Carl, of Carl and Son, makers of
Chambraign
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 16:33:07 +0000
From: Jon Parmet <jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: god, ged, the snapstah head!
Message-ID: <3911A643.6B9AFBCE@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
> That's the way God intended for mail to be read. :)
Guess it's not exactly like riding a bike, eh D.
It's spelled GED!!!!
A Napster related question:
If I take someone's skull and stuff it down into the fan blade while a
car's engine is running, who can I sue? The manufacturer of the fan
blade? The car manufacturer? The gym down the street that provided the
exercise equipment to give me the strength to grab the screaming skull
and force it into said bladage? My mother for not providing me enough
breast at an early age?
OTOH, if the person was a dick - say they didn't finish a trade with me
- is the action then justified? If the music being traded sucked, should
the car's vacuum lines be brought in to testify objectively on the
actual rate of suckage measured?
Have a nice day... and remember the topic of the day is:
Subject: "I LOVE YOU"
:D
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 12:59:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: szebro1@gl.umbc.edu
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: what else?
Message-ID: <200005041659.MAA4420650@gl.umbc.edu>
> Yeah I'm there - I love Union. For many reasons, and as I said earlier I
> particularly like the Trevor Rabin stuff. Top song on the album....? Well I
> would go with "The Miracle Of Life" or maybe "Lift Me UP", just to give you
I agree with those 2 songs. Half the time, I listen to the intro to
"Lift Me Up" about a hundred times in a row.
> I think I've just changed my stance on the Trevor V Steve debate, it's
> nothing to do with them - it's all about Chris - he's is the driving force
> of Yes (IMHO), wherever he is - Yes will be...
I agree there, too. I have a GTR live CD that has them doing 'Roundabout'
and it sounds great - but it doesn't sound like Yes.
Up until recently I thought I hated Chris Squire's voice. Lately I have
realized that I didn't so much hate it as I did resent that an "old guy"
could still sing with that youthful edge. Now that I've come to terms
with this, I really like his singing.
> are not very discriminating in their musical tastes, i.e. they think
> Everclear has the greatest riffs known to man and that Live has an
> awesome live sound. So I highly doubt that they'd care if their 2 bit per
Everclear may very well suck (very well suck - is that an oxmoron?), but
+Live+ DOES have an awesome live sound! Watch Woodstock!
> on 5/4/00 "Steven Zebrowski" - if that is his real name - replied:
Ha! That's funny! :)
> Metallica was a fan of Iron Maiden way back - James was playing the riff
> for UII and said he thought it sounded familiar - he recognized it as
> the same chords as Unforgiven. I wonder now if he was subconsciously
> thinking of IM's CotD.
When you put it that way, I have to admit, it's entirely possible.
(I just love that B-bender, though!)
> Why? Because if Napster is an accesory to an illegal act, then the
> ENTIRE INTERNET is an accessory to not only illegal trading of MP3's,
> but to kiddy porn, drug trafficking, computer hacking, and so on, and so
> on....
Isn't it?
(Not so much computer hacking - are car dealers really accesories to car
theft?)
> Also by this logic, the US Postal service should be sued everytime they
> intercept illegal drugs being shipped, after all, they didn't do enough
> to stop it!
They should. the laziest government workers of them all (except, of
course, Congerss). Give them something to do for god's sake.
> If Napster falls, then it could snowball from there, where does it stop
> then? When everything on the Net is monitored for "illegal activity"?
> Sounds pretty Orwellian to me!
Me too. What scares me is that this bothers everyone so much. Sure I
don't want people reading my private email and seeing what particular
brand of porn I have on my hard drive, but if it's people I don't even
know and they're just checking it out to see if I'm planning to bring a
bunch of guns to school and kill everyone because I don't have any
friends, I don't really have a problem with that.
> i wonder if that's what their business plan reads. heh. its function has
> been outlined by its users, not the company itself. the company is not
> responsible for the action of the users of its software.
I thought you had to accept their terms of service agreement before you
installed the software, and I thought one of those terms was that you were
not to distribute copyrighted material. Correct me if I'm wrong, please.
> you're sure that they don't enforce their terms of service? maybe not on
> as wide a scale as you or the recording industry would like?
Actually, no. I'm not sure. But AFAIK, Metallica has prepared a list of
users who are in violation of Napster's TOS. Now it's Napster's turn to
take action or not.
> I remember reading or hearing somewhere that James used to spend hours at
> Lars's place copying albums of bands that he liked when the band was just
> getting started. It's good old human nature at work and plain old fashioned
> hypocrisy on their part.
No. it's maturity on their part. Maybe since they have become adults,
they have seen the error in their ways. Again, I need to remind everyone
here that when this was going on, they were KIDS.
> When it's to their benefit it's fine but when it hurts their own pockets
> it's another matter.
No. When thy're naive kids it's fine, but now that they're grown up and
they see WHY it's wrong it's another matter.
> It seems Metallica has lost touch with their humble beginnings.
No. It seems Metallica have grown up. They're not teenagers anymore.
you can't count on them to have their psychological development stunted at
the period at which a bunch of rebellious kids started liking their music.
Don't count on anyone but yourself.
> This is an argument that can't be won it just depends on which side of
> the fence you are on.
That is a copout. Just because some people are on one side of the fence
and some are on the other doesn't mean that there's no "wrong" side.
The issue isn't which side of the fence you are on - the issue is which
side of the fence has the "No Trespassing" sign on it.
> > You know, D-Man, your return to the 'jam has caused me to
> > change my mail reader to a fixed-width font, just so I can
> > see your sig. :)
>
> That's the way God intended for mail to be read. :)
You're not kidding. Check this out:
--------Begin Forwarded Message--------
>
>Date: 4 May, 2000 19:28:00 EDT
>From: god@heaven.org
>To: szebro1@gl.umbc.edu
>Subject: email
>
>Memorandum
>Re: 11th Commandment
>
>"Thou shalt log into a shell account and use Berkley mail to check
>thine email. Thou shalt not have other fonts besides Terminal,
>Fixedsys, or Courier."
>
>God
>cc: Moses, JPII
>
---------End Forwarded Message---------
:)
> or not, but there's a difference between watching my dad solve the
> Sunday Times in ink, and signing up to listen to some music and
Say, that reminds me: My school Newspaper has #1) the EASIEST crossword
puzzle in the world, and #2) the most misprints I've ever seen in a
crossword puzzle. There are probably 1 or 2 mistakes in it each month
(daily paper).
> things with you." When presented with a blank crossword puzzle,
> there's an expectation that it will be solved by *someone*. But when
> some freshman History major goes to Napster to get the latest track by
> that orchestra with the guitar player, he or she has no expectation
> that it'll come back to bite him or her in the ass.
Shouldn't he though? I mean, if it's copyrighted material it illegal to
duplicate. Ignorance of the law is no excuse, right?
> that kid's packets, then there's something rotten in Denmark (and not
> just at Lars' house).
you rock. that is too funny!
> again to the freshman non-scientist. Who's warning him or her?
Like I said, ignorance of the law is no excuse, at least not in this
country.
Steve Z
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 10:25:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Hansen <bhansen10@yahoo.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: more Napster
Message-ID: <20000504172538.21770.qmail@web117.yahoomail.com>
"Mark Philpot" <mep10@duke.edu> admitted:
> Mp3s are probably the greatest thing that happened
to the music
> industry since... well CDs. Before, trying to get
my friends to listen to DT
> was almost impossilbe. It just never worked out.
However since mp3s... I
> can select a few songs that I think my friend would
like, and boom, they're
> hooked. I gotten LOTS of my friends now to go out
and buy EVERY SINGLE
> DT album just because I sent them some mp3s!!!!
Mp3s are great, as long
> as its use is limited to sampling!
I'm sorry my friend, but you are in direct violation
of copyright law. You have made and distributed copies
of copyrighted material. As a matter of fact, you have
done exactly what most users of Napster have done.
Don't worry, it seems that half of the ytsejam
community here will come to your house and form a
human chain to protect you. The other half will
volunteer to join the Janet Reno/Metallica copyright
stormtroopers and invade your house with automatic
weapons. The picture beamed around the world will show
one ytsejammer holding your computer in the closet,
and another putting a machine gun in their face. ;o)
Steven Zebrowski" <szebro1@gl.umbc.edu> wrote:
> Who's suing the fans?
Of course Metallica is not suing the fans directly,
but what is the whole point here? They want to stop
(or even punish) the people who have put up MP3's of
their officially released material. Who do you think
those people are?! Are they putting up MP3's of bands
they hate? They're fans, hoping to bring new fans on
board. Just like Mark above.
]From the official Metallica news release:
"These violations were monitored from Friday, April
28th - Sunday, April 30th at 4AM EST and include
335,435 distinct users who on average offer 5
Metallica files for illegal transfer."
An average of five songs! Sounds like a small sample
to me...more like a fan trying to generate more fans.
So yes, to me this whole lawsuit seems like an attack
on their own fans. Napster is only the middleman.
my $.02, BH
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 13:40:56 -0400
From: Digital Man <cmerlo@optical.mindstorm.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: RIO, more Napster
Message-ID: <20000504134056.A27086@optical.mindstorm.com>
On 2000-05-04 at 08:46 -0700, ytsejam@torchsong.com
<ytsejam@torchsong.com> truly believed:
> Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 04:52:55 EST
> From: "M P" <mremann6@hotmail.com>
> Subject: Elektra compilation
>
> > > From: jOHN jENS <jjens@webzone.net>
> > > Subject: copyrights, liability and Napster...NEXT! on Oprah
(this was me, actually)
> >Progression Magazine often sends out an awesome sampler with the mag.
> >A few issues ago, I got into Gordian Knot because of a Laser's Edge
> >sampler. The most recent issue had a Cuneiform Records sampler, and
> >turned me on to Boud Deun and Philharmonie.
>
> Cuneiform sampler? fuck, sign me up!
> nothing like stuff that hits an 8-9 on the weird-shit-o-meter
You can subscribe to the mag at http://www.progressionmagazine.com.
It's probably too late to get the Cuneiform sampler from them
(although I hear they *do* sell on newsstands somewhere, so try your
luck). You never know what'll be in the next one.
And, do me a favor. If you're really into that RIO stuff, *please*
explain why, because I just don't get it.
---> Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 08:34:57 -0400 > From: Dan Costello <axeman_dannl@juno.com> > Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5457 > > But then they'd be blocking several people that use the same ISP, right? > Or is that the point?
The point, I think, is to enforce compliance through public guilt. Ever see "Full Metal Jacket", where the rest of the platoon has to do push-ups because Pyle snuck a doughnut into the barracks? Same thing. "Don't fuck up, or we'll piss off your neighbors and blame you."
I mean, I doubt this was the intention of blocking a range of IPs, but it's about all you can do when people have dynamic IPs. But it works.
---
> Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 11:29:20 -0400 > From: "tomas valodka" <tvalodka@dreamtheater.zzn.com> > Subject: the "N" word and stuff > > copywritten stuff that I've never seen before. I really think that > things like Napster have practical uses, the question is in the > ethics of the user and the responsibility of the company to enforce
Bingo.
> The site said you could choose whether or not others could view the > contents on your HD, but then again it said copyright violators would > be banned. Nothing to hide on my HD (except that panty shot of > Gillian Anderson) but just curious how much someone can see if they > wanted to. D-man? Anyone?
If you run a Windows machine, and it's connected to the Internet, you're in trouble. DOS was designed as a stand-alone OS, and the various flavors of Windows are just nasty GUI hacks built around that kernel. It is inherently insecure in a networked setting. Anyone who tells you different is probably trying to sell you something.
Run Linux or a BSD (or maybe Be or Mac, not sure), however, and you're probably at least a little safer.
> Anyway, I found DT doing "Red Barchetta" and it's d-loading as I > type. Anyone have any info what show this is from?
That might be James singing on the "Working Man" tribute album, with Sean Malone and Sean Reinert on bass and drums. (I forget the guitarist and keyboardist -- don't have it in front of me.)
> Carpal tunnel kicking in after this post, so y'all can expect a break > from my ramblings for at least a few days. ;)
Protect yourself. This is another thing that most people don't realize. Typing at a straight keyboard, with no wrist protection, is a recipe for disaster. At least get a wrist pad, if you can't get your hands on an ergonomic keyboard.
------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ "640 K ought to be enough d-man@dreamt.org "@'/ ,. \`@" memory for everyone." -Gates cmerlo@mindstorm.com /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed http://www.dreamt.org/d-man \__U_/ He's a digital man" -Peart ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 13:54:39 -0400 (EDT) From: schew@interzone.com (Steve Chew) To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Yes stuff.... Message-ID: <m12nPpf-000IPfC@mail.interzone.com>
> >Personally, I think "The Ladder" is some of their best work in >over two decades. None of their stuff was really BAD, particularly >in contrast with what was being played on the radio by competing >acts. I was not a huge fan of the TR years. Hell, I thought things >started to decline after Relayer... > >[ Agreed (though I love Awaken... you can stop laughing now)... I made >a 23-minute song out of half of Tormato that I think works better than >the album itself ^_^ -- I did like Drama quite a bit... But yes, TL is >a great album -- the only song I skip is If Only You Knew, but even it >is nice when you actually have a girlfriend. ^_^ New Languages kicks >my ass every time so far. Here's hoping the tour this summer actually >will be a fan-influenced set like they've touted on their web-page... >Maybe we'll actually hear Gates live again... *shudder, splurt* ] >
Why would we laugh at our liking Awaken? That's one of Yes' best, especially when played live. I also think the Ladder is one of their stronger recent efforts. However, my favorite recent piece by Yes is "Mind Drive" the 20 minute epic from "Keys to Ascension 2". I think it's the best thing they've done since Awaken and possibly since CTTE. It's up there with their best epic songs. "Mind Drive" got my vote for what I want to hear in their live shows this summer. Unfortunately, the rest of the new stuff off that CD wasn't as good.
Steve
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 13:02:03 -0500 From: Kurt M Hampton <kurt.hampton@juno.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: REALLY TIRED OF NAPSTER Message-ID: <20000504.130240.-15313.1.Kurt.Hampton@juno.com>
Ok, Im not really one to bitch about stuff that goes on around here, but I thjink the Napster thread is GETTING REALLY OLD. Could we move on please. I am tired og getting a jam with 24 posts, and about 19 or 20 are about the same thing.
Kurt NP-Rest of the Creed boot from last night
"damn I need a new signature now" me after reading ytsejam 5456
________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 11:18:47 -0800 (PST) From: "Webmaster Ytsejam.com" <webmaster@ytsejam.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: D-man's Words Message-ID: <20000504181848.E8AE9BCFA@sitemail.everyone.net>
on 5/4/00 D-man made the following statement:
>Wrong again. No one has sued Pontiac because people drive drunk. >Everyone wants to equate the laws of physical things to the laws of >the Internet, but everyone seems to want to do it selectively.
D-man - while I agree with the philosophy behind your words, I feel I must point out that the Judicial Branch of our government has in the recent past upheld decisions to hold a company liable because a user misuses said product.
Gun Manufactures are under fire [excuse the pun] from massive class action law-suits, because people use their product for illegal acts.
But don't get me wrong - Your words carry the ring of truth, yes your words ring true ;)
-Koggie... ..Can't wait for the Lord of the Rings movies ..is wondering what happened to the guys from Echolyn ..Dislikes the ILOVEYOU virus.
== Free Email Accounts at www.ytsejam.com
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 14:29:50 EDT From: NShh641@aol.com To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: MP3s, Napster Message-ID: <27.520331f.26431b9e@aol.com>
I'm hoping that the music industry realizes that mp3 are here to stay. Maybe it'll make them reduce the price of cds. It cost em what, about $1 to make a cd? So why the hell are they charging $15 a pop for em?
It's supply and demand. People can get the music on the internet, sooner or later cd prices are gonna fall. And I'm not gonna be cryin any over the losses Virgin Records or Geffen takes.
Nik
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 11:44:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Patrick <mikeepatrick@yahoo.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: PoS Message-ID: <20000504184431.14154.qmail@web1305.mail.yahoo.com>
>With all this talk about PoS you've got my >attention! What kind of music do they play >and what is the vocalist like? I'd love to >know before i order it because us lucky >Australians have to pay heaps for CD's like that
Musically, they're very much in the tradition of Hanson. Vocally, Daniel Gildenlow is a cross between Neil Diamond and Phil Anselmo (sp?) from Pantera.
But seriously folks, take the epic qualities of DT, and make it harder-edged and manic. Gildenlow makes no bones of being HEAVILY influenced by Faith No More's/Mr. Bungle's Mike Patton - and anyone familiar with both bands can attest to that. Basically, he's all OVER the vocal map and has range out the yingyang.
Both albums are blind purchases if you think you can stand something a little harder and wilder than DT. Trust me, there's a reason there's such a large buzz about them...
Mike
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 15:20:13 -0400 (EDT) From: schew@interzone.com (Steve Chew) To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Napster and copying music.... Message-ID: <m12nRAT-000IPfC@mail.interzone.com>
> > Regarding the Metallica/Napster debacle, I have made the following >observations, many I'm sure you've all made yourselves... > >1)- Using Napster is no different than swapping CD's with friends to check >stuff out. If I can get sued for using Napster, then on the same token... > >2)- Am I going to be sued by TORO if I loan my riding mower to my next >door neighbor? >
While I fall on the Napster side of the debate, I do think there is a difference between loaning CDs or your Toro lawnmower to your friend and sharing songs using Napster. The main difference is that when you loan your CD you can't then both listen to the music at the same time (assuming you're not in the same room). With Napster, thousands of people can get a copy of the CD and listen to it at the same time that you listen to your original. Loaning your Toro has the same problem. You can't both cut your grass at the same time. So, this argument doesn't really help much in the eyes of the music industry.
But, just for fun, let's take this thought experiment a bit further. Let's say that you had a replicator which could make a duplicate of your Toro lawnmower. Now, your friend needs to mow his lawn so you rip a copy of the Toro and give him one. :) The other people in the neighborhood need to mow their lawns so you do the same thing. Then, you put the Toro up on the net and everyone starts replicating their own version of the mower. Toro isn't going to like it. Once this replicator techonology is everywhere, why would anyone buy the mower from Toro? They can just download it for free from you. There will always be honorable people out there who will only buy from the original creator, but that may not be enough.
The funny thing about a replicator (or the internet combined with digitized music) is that it really changes how people use property. If something is so easy to copy that I can just say "here, take one" then a lot of people will see that as a reasonable thing to do. Just like they see it as reasonable to loan their single copy of the CD or mower to their friend. It's convenient, it's cheap, and it's fun. In many ways, I see this kind of approach to software and other digitized information as inevitable. The government and corporations will try to legislate it away (and perhaps they'll succeed) but it's really how people want to do things -- they want to be free to share what they have with others. The internet and programs like Napster make it easy to do.
The problem is, how do we reward the people who came up with the product in the first place if you can just get it for free? How can Metallica (or any new band) strike it rich if only a few people will pay for their product? I think that most of us would like to see their favorite bands make a lot of money (though not necessarily the music industry). How can this happen?
Well, there's the idea a few people have proposed of including a "value added service" with the CD (such as artwork or signed copies). Or, they could get all their money from live performances. These answers seem somewhat unsatisfactory and only make more work for the band. It's a tough problem.
One thing that we have to keep in mind here is that only a very, very small percentage of bands ever get wealthy off of their music. And only a slightly higher percentage of bands make enough to live on from their CD sales alone. Most of us know how little a band actually gets from each CD. ]From the bands I've talked to, they make less than $1 (usually much less) per CD sold. Plus, the initial proceeds for their CD sales go toward the costs of the recording studio and many other expenses that the record companies require that they pay for. So, if we eliminated the record companies and instead sold entire albums online for $1 or $2 then it's possible that a lot more people would make the purchase even if they can get it for free. The bands could sell actual CDs for a few dollars more (to cover the expense of creating and shipping the CDs) if people wanted the "value added" version. This way, the bands would make as much money as the did before per album sale (maybe even more). THe only question would be whether they'd sell as many albums. I have a feeling that most bands (the ones who aren't super popular) would actually sell at least as many albums.
So, what about distribution and advertising? How will a band get their music heard if they're not being promoted by a big label? Well, it's probably true that many big bands wouldn't get as well promoted, but I think that many small bands would be better promoted. As others have mentioned, Napster and MP3s are a great way to get your music heard. and if your music is heard and liked, it will become popular via word of mouth. If someone heard a great song by an unknown band they might take the time to visit their web site and may even pay $1 or $2 to download the album. I know that I own over 700 CDs mostly because of the number of tapes I traded with friends and over the internet. I was able to listen to cool music that I wouldn't have ever even heard otherwise (a lot of obscure prog-rock for example) and then went out and bought the CD. I've done the same with songs I've sampled on Napster. People are willing to support bands they like, especially if it's only a few dollars to do so.
Anyway, the debate will rage on and I think the corporations are going to be fighting tooth and nail for a long time. I think they'll probably prevail in the short term. It will be interesting to see what happens farther out.
Steve
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Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 14:16:31 -0500 From: "Todd O. Klindt, MCSE" <todd@klindt.org> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: RE: D-man's Words Message-ID: <01dc01bfb5fd$422bbfe0$3464a8c0@klindt.org>
Technically I believe the gun manufacturers are being accused of irresponsible marketing practices that lend themselves well to criminals getting firearms. I don't think any of the lawsuits are based on "Hey, you made a product and someone hurt someone else with it!".
That's just my opinion, I could be wrong. tk
Todd O. Klindt, MCSE todd@klindt.org "Remember, the government doesn't create one dollar. When you get a dollar, that means the government took it from someone else." -Governor Jesse Ventura
-----Original Message----- ]From: ytsejam@torchsong.com [mailto:ytsejam@torchsong.com]On Behalf Of Webmaster Ytsejam.com Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2000 1:29 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: D-man's Words
Gun Manufactures are under fire [excuse the pun] from massive class action law-suits, because people use their product for illegal acts.Storage and no limit on file attachments.
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Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 03:46:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Janne Jokitalo <janne_jokitalo@yahoo.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Pain of Salvation Message-ID: <20000504104631.21473.qmail@web314.mail.yahoo.com>
--- Marie.Donnell@agso.gov.au wrote: > > Heya everyone > > With all this talk about PoS you've got my attention! > What kind of music do they play and what is the vocalist like?
PoS plays very interesting music with wide variation in styles. I don't have Entropia (their first cd), but have heard it enuff to tell that some songs even have a techno-ish beat while some could be categorised to hard metal. But very, very complex. Very prog. Their second album (both being concept albums) is a little more song oriented, making it slightly easier to listen, all the while it surely is still a prog masterpiece. It's called One Hour By The Concrete Lake. But Entropia is insane, and very very good !!
Vocalist(/2nd guitarist/lyricist/composer) has a nice, unique, wide voice, also listenable, actually enjoyable :) I highly (/me trying to measure how high with hands) recommend getting both of them, absolutely great discs.
- Winger
PS. There's third one recorded as we speak...err...type...*whatever*
===== Janne Jokitalo
Boss Information: jaska@boss.fi Jyväskylä University: jajokita@st.jyu.fi Homepage: http://www.jyu.fi/~jajokita
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Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 21:51:29 +0200 From: "Tibor Varady 2.0" <lawinen@freemail.hu> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: metallica CHAT TRANSCRIPT posted on their official site Message-ID: <200005041951.VAA27806@altair.ceu.hu>
The transcript of Metallica's recent chat on napster has been posted on http://www.metallica.com
I think that after all this discussion about them they deserve to be heard. These underground pioneer corporate whores, or whatever they are.
One of their argument that 'tallica made that hasn't been heard a lot is that napster actually makes a lot of money through their service, which they portray as some red-cross oh so humane freedom kinda thang......
By the way, I think that a lot of what they said there does make sense, and that the two J's are pretty intelligent guys. But I am biased, since I always had a lot of respect for Hetfield, from the Hit the Lights demo (not that I was born then) to his recent "country hits". Lars is different. A bitch, if you ask me.
...........excerpt: Question: Any plans for an ANTI-NAPSTER Free Tour? Jaymz: If the money's right! LOL! ROTFL! ........................... Cheerz, T-Bone
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 5461 **************************
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