YTSEJAM digest 5658

From: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Date: Wed Nov 01 2000 - 16:39:29 EST

Next message: ytsejam@torchsong.com: "YTSEJAM digest 5659"

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YTSEJAM Digest 5658

Today's Topics:

  1) Re: ProgPowerUSA
by Mike Patrick <mikeepatrick@yahoo.com>
  2) Re: Godsmack
by "James Arin Colberg" <JamesArin@snet.net>
  3) re: albums
by "Daniel Mikkola" <jcdrummer67@hotmail.com>
  4) Re: ProgPowerUSA
by Brian D Hayden <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu>
  5) Misc. things
by "Joe DeAngelo" <jdeangelo@home.com>
  6) Clarifying Jordan's Online Conservatory
by DTStonehenge@aol.com
  7) Re: stuff
by Mark Peters <epididymisle@earthlink.net>
  8) Re: ProgPowerUSA
by Brad Plumb <bplumb@pi-r-squared.com>
  9) Re: stuff
by "James Arin Colberg" <JamesArin@snet.net>
10) Re: ProgPowerUSA
by "Brian O'Brian" <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu>
11) Re: Napster
by "James Arin Colberg" <JamesArin@snet.net>
12) Making of Images and Words Video
by Jose Ochoa <liquidjo@yahoo.com>
13) Re: ProgPowerUSA
by Brad Plumb <bplumb@pi-r-squared.com>
14) re: fair use etc. long but hopefully worthwhile.
by "Brian O'Brian" <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu>
15) Re: ProgPowerUSA
by "Brian O'Brian" <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu>
16) Re: ProgPowerUSA
by "Kez" <kez@spectrum-internet.com>
17) Re: fair use etc. long but hopefully worthwhile.
by "James Arin Colberg" <JamesArin@snet.net>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 06:52:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Mike Patrick <mikeepatrick@yahoo.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: ProgPowerUSA
Message-ID: <20001101145213.20620.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com>

>Well, you sound like a jerk. I'm a bid DT fan,
>but I've heard most of the other "progmetal"
>bands people are always jizzing over, and most
>of them are just plain boring in my opinion. The
>six bands that you mentioned, as far as I'm
>concerned, are all total stiffs.

Whatever. There were some 'technical-ish' bands among
those I mentioned, but that cannot be said, of, say,
Reading Zero and Pain of Salvation, and if you find
either lacking in emotion (especially PoS), I'd really
love to hear what you DO consider emotional.

And I'd STILL contend that there a lot of people on
this list who could/would make the whole progmetal
scene much more viable if they were exposed to more of
it. YOU may know of other bands in the same vein as
DT, but if you've ever stood in line at a DT concert
and started talking about them, I bet $$$ you got a
lot of blank stares. Since you're not into a lot of
the other bands, it may not phase you, but I find it
pretty depressing.

Mike

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
]From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer.
http://experts.yahoo.com/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 08:52:03 -0500
From: "James Arin Colberg" <JamesArin@snet.net>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: Godsmack
Message-ID: <00d801c0440c$00daa7c0$b420fc40@jamesarin>

Hey Kurt,
You are not the only one who doesn't use Napster. Never touched it
never will. There are plenty of other places to find sound samples.

Later,
Jim

I have seen this face a thousand times every morning of my life
But I never saw these eyes so clear free of doubt and pain
Like the whole world has been made again
And it's all because you made me see what is false and what is true
Like the inside and the outside of me is being made again by you

Marillion 'Made Again'

----- Original Message -----
]From: "Kurt M Hampton" <kurt.hampton@juno.com>
To: "Multiple recipients of list" <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 8:52 AM
Subject: Re: Godsmack

Hehe

Actually I did here on some metal site that Godsmack strarted out as an
AIC cover band, then started writing their own stuff. Pretty sad, and
they probably have sold better than AIC ever did.

Speaking of AIC, Dec 5th they are releasing a live album.

One final question to all jammers:

Am I the only person who does NOT use napster?

Kurt
NP-Scarred from Ft lauderdale 97

ytsekurt on AOL instant messenger
Trade page-www.geocities.com/Kurt_labrie/Startpage.html
"Shut the f*ck up. Don't make me come down there and kick your f*cking
ass"
-James Labrie 4/16/97

________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 07:01:43 PST
From: "Daniel Mikkola" <jcdrummer67@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: re: albums
Message-ID: <F194uyAbfBk366EkqPN00006861@hotmail.com>

hey other than limp bizkit, rob zombie, and DT. What about Nirvana? they
have 5 albums out; Bleach, Nevermind, Incesticide, In Utero, and Unplugged.
None of their songs on their albums are named after the album.

daniel
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 09:08:40 -0600 (CST)
From: Brian D Hayden <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: ProgPowerUSA
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.20.0011010905380.22514-100000@garnet.tc.umn.edu>

On Wed, 1 Nov 2000, Mike Patrick wrote:

> Whatever. There were some 'technical-ish' bands among
> those I mentioned, but that cannot be said, of, say,
> Reading Zero and Pain of Salvation, and if you find
> either lacking in emotion (especially PoS), I'd really
> love to hear what you DO consider emotional.

That's not germane to the conversation. The point is that you just
demonstrated your arrogance again..."I'd love to hear what you DO consider
emotional." Because I don't like a band you like, it automatically implies
that my taste is somehow faulty.

> And I'd STILL contend that there a lot of people on
> this list who could/would make the whole progmetal
> scene much more viable if they were exposed to more of
> it. YOU may know of other bands in the same vein as
> DT, but if you've ever stood in line at a DT concert
> and started talking about them, I bet $$$ you got a
> lot of blank stares. Since you're not into a lot of
> the other bands, it may not phase you, but I find it
> pretty depressing.

This is the part that really annoys me. Anyone who cares about a
"scene" is a real fruit in my book. Listen to what you enjoy on a band by
band basis, and why should you worry about or get "depressed" over what
other people listen to? I've said it before and I'll say it again: these
attitudes simply demonstrate that you're small-minded and insecure, and
need your opinions validated by a larger group while at the same time your
prejudices invalidate any differing opinion.

Sad.

-Brian

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 11:07:29 -0500
From: "Joe DeAngelo" <jdeangelo@home.com>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Misc. things
Message-ID: <003e01c0441d$d5fde320$6e7c0b18@stcl1.mi.home.com>

Todd said:
> I think it takes a lot of originality to have all your album
> titles be unique from all the lists of songs on the album. Look at the 5
> studio releases, (not counting ACoS because it is a single/EP as far as I
am
> concerned) all of them have original & cool titles. None of the
self-titled
> or first single off the album titles like most of the other bands.

I agree. It's pretty cool that the album titles aren't simply the names of
a tune on the disc. Some of the old discs (IaW and Awake anyways.... I
don't remember about WDaDU) are named for a lyric somewhere in a song.

----------

Carlos Alfaro said:
> No, i dont either.

Well, count me in as another who has never used Napster.

----------

Mike Patrick said:

Mike Patrick wrote:
> Not to sound like a jerk, but I'm continually amazed
> at the number of RABID DT fans who also know NOTHING
> about the 1.5 tons of other wonderful progmetal bands

I agree Mike. It seems like ALOT of Jammers only know about the
biggest-name progmetal bands (Fates Warning, Symphony X, and the Magna
Carta bands).

Brian Hayden replied:
> Well, you sound like a jerk.

I really don't think Mike meant to to rude about it Brian. I think he
meant it more in an "educational" sense. He thinks there's other great
bands out there that DT fans should check out.

> I'm a bid DT fan, but I've heard most of the
> other "progmetal" bands people are always jizzing over, and most of them
> are just plain boring in my opinion.

I somewhat agree here. ALOT of the other prog-metal bands I've heard are
kinda blah (usually because they are either Dream Theater, Fates Warning, or
Queensryche clones). There are SOME great ones out there though.

> The six bands that you mentioned, as
> far as I'm concerned, are all total stiffs. There's some cool guys in some
> of those bands, but musically...well, if you find emotion in it, or you
> just enjoy the technicality of it, more power to ya,

Well, everybody has opinions, and the fact that you don't dig those
particular bands is cool. I'd personally disagree though.. And calling
them (at least Pain of Salvation) "stiff" is a silly thing IMO. Not liking
them is fine..... but they're definitely not stiff (I'm assuming you mean
that the music is stiff and emotionless?). As far as emotion goes, there
is no comparison: Pain of Salvation's music is WAAAAAAY more emotional than
Dream Theater's, not that that is necessarily a good or bad thing (that was
definitely NOT a knock against DT.... hell, DT is my all-time favorite
band).

> to say that those of us who don't care about these bands are just
> ignoramuses lost in the woods, or have no taste, or something, then, well,
> I guess all I can do is cordially invite you to shove your keyboard up
> your ass and smile.

Chill out man. I don't think anybody is insinuating that you (or anybody
else here) is an ignoramus.

Laters,
- Joe D.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 12:42:16 EST
From: DTStonehenge@aol.com
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Clarifying Jordan's Online Conservatory
Message-ID: <c8.c40c332.2731aff8@aol.com>

Hey guys --

Just to clarify what you get when you sign up to Jordan's conservatory...

The amount of time and effort that went into the conservatory was
enormous... many months of formatting MIDI files, recording MP3s, creating
notation, and writing all the text that goes along with the examples! Within
the conservatory's Core Lesson is over 250 media files of more than 80
exercises and little bonus tracks which you all can practice, study, and
learn from. All of these exercises together will take you many many months
to fully explore, and by that time we plan on having out at least a couple of
elective sections focusing more intently on subjects such as odd meters and
other such topics of interest to progressive musicans the world over. PLUS
we're going to keep expanding the core lesson -- at no extra cost -- to
include all the various blues and straight scales in all keys, as well as
other very basic examples, so that the conservatory is a complete one-stop
online library of musical knowledge for everyone to use. Hope this helps
everybody... write to me at DTStonehenge@aol.com if you have more specific
questions... just try not to fill my mailbox too quickly... :)

-- Bert, Jordan's assistant

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 12:00:38 -0800
From: Mark Peters <epididymisle@earthlink.net>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: stuff
Message-ID: <3A007666.65CF7599@earthlink.net>

]From: Phil Carter:
> Mm. I wondered if anybody else was going to pick up on this. Heh. Two
> months ago, Playboy, this month, Maxim. Am I moving up in the world or down? :)

What issue of Playboy was that, Phil? I assume you had a letter printed
there too. The only other time I remember a 'jammer getting a letter in
a major magazine was when Elliott Kim got one printed in Guitar for the
Practicing Musician. Anyone?

]From: "James Arin Colberg":
> I'm a beta tester for ME, what kind of problems are you having? I may have
> run into them myself.

Well, it came installed on my wife's new computer. I can't figure out
why, when I right-click on a folder/file so I can delete it, the
folder/file opens. Do you know where the settings for that option are?

]From: Kurt M Hampton:
> One final question to all jammers:
>
> Am I the only person who does NOT use napster?

Nope.

Take care,
Mark Peters
epididymisle@earthlink.net

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 12:12:21 -0600
From: Brad Plumb <bplumb@pi-r-squared.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: ProgPowerUSA
Message-ID: <2.2.32.20001031181221.00dff2dc@pi-r-squared.com>

At 07:23 AM 11/1/00 -0800, you wrote:
>
>On Wed, 1 Nov 2000, Mike Patrick wrote:
>
>> Whatever. There were some 'technical-ish' bands among
>> those I mentioned, but that cannot be said, of, say,
>> Reading Zero and Pain of Salvation, and if you find
>> either lacking in emotion (especially PoS), I'd really
>> love to hear what you DO consider emotional.
>
>That's not germane to the conversation. The point is that you just
>demonstrated your arrogance again..."I'd love to hear what you DO consider
>emotional." Because I don't like a band you like, it automatically implies
>that my taste is somehow faulty.
>

Actually, no.. he's simply making the assertion that PoS, and I would agree
with him, center their music around emotional content. At this point, it's
like hearing someone describe Britney Spears as prog or tech-metal. It's an
inaccurate description; and one that suggests that you probably haven't
heard enough of the band. But then again.. technicality is fairly easy to
define (except on this list) and what people find emotional isn't.

Palpatine
www.pi-r-squared.com/brad/
Co Founder of NARF: The North Houston Anime Resistance Force, and Historian
of Anime-no-kai

"There is nothing more pragmatic than idealism" -David Mamet

"With all its luck and all its danger
The war is dragging on a bit
Another hundred years or longer
The Common man won't benefit.
Filthy his food, no soap to shave him
The regiment steals half his pay.
But still a miracle may save him:
Tomorrow is another day!
   The new year's come. The watchmen shout.
   The thaw sets in. The dead remain.
   Wherever life has not died out
   It staggers to its feet again."

-Bertolt Brecht. Mother Courage and her Children

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 12:21:45 -0500
From: "James Arin Colberg" <JamesArin@snet.net>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: stuff
Message-ID: <016201c04428$3a42a280$b420fc40@jamesarin>

Hey Mark,

Try going to control panel --> Mouse --> select the Buttons tab and
check 'button configuration' to see if the mouse is configured for
left-handed use. If it is a right click will open the file/folder and a
left click will open the context menu. Just select the Right-handed radial
button and it will reverse the effect. I hope this helps, if not let me
know and I will dig a little deeper.

See ya,
Jim

Marillion 'Made Again'

----- Original Message -----
]From: "Mark Peters" <epididymisle@earthlink.net>
Well, it came installed on my wife's new computer. I can't figure out
why, when I right-click on a folder/file so I can delete it, the
folder/file opens. Do you know where the settings for that option are?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 12:55:15 -0600
From: "Brian O'Brian" <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: ProgPowerUSA
Message-ID: <B625C332.79BB%hayd0029@tc.umn.edu>

on 11/1/00 12:17 PM, Brad Plumb at bplumb@pi-r-squared.com scribbled in
vibrant crayola:

>>> Whatever. There were some 'technical-ish' bands among
>>> those I mentioned, but that cannot be said, of, say,
>>> Reading Zero and Pain of Salvation, and if you find
>>> either lacking in emotion (especially PoS), I'd really
>>> love to hear what you DO consider emotional.
>>
>> That's not germane to the conversation. The point is that you just
>> demonstrated your arrogance again..."I'd love to hear what you DO consider
>> emotional." Because I don't like a band you like, it automatically implies
>> that my taste is somehow faulty.
>>
>
> Actually, no.. he's simply making the assertion that PoS, and I would agree
> with him, center their music around emotional content. At this point, it's
> like hearing someone describe Britney Spears as prog or tech-metal. It's an
> inaccurate description; and one that suggests that you probably haven't
> heard enough of the band. But then again.. technicality is fairly easy to
> define (except on this list) and what people find emotional isn't.

You're missing the point Brad. He didn't just say "In my opinion PoS's music
is very emotional." You may note that in my original post I *explicitly*
said that it was all my opinion. He said, "if you find that lacking in
emotion I'd really love to hear what you DO consider emotional." The clear
implication is that I have a skewed sense of what is "emotional." It's
obviously just a progsnob way of saying, "If you find PoS lacking in
emotion, I bet you think simplistic trash like Green Day is emotional."

More or less. :)

-Brian

There are two ways to get to Canada. Go north, or go south and be persistent.

-Kamur Tamma

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 14:01:35 -0500 From: "James Arin Colberg" <JamesArin@snet.net> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: Napster Message-ID: <01a801c04436$2cfa5560$b420fc40@jamesarin>

----- Original Message ----- ]From: "Chris Oates" <aspect-lists@tinagh.org>

Not entirely true. By my understanding, "Fair Use" specifies that an individual who has bought a CD may make copies for their friends to listen to. Thus, your friends wanting a dub of a CD you own is perfectly legal. Napster's argument is that their program falls under that category. The RIAA argues that napster users aren't "friends" and so are not covered... --------------------------------------

"Fair Use" means that you can make copies for YOURSELF to use, not your friends.

Later, Jim

I have seen this face a thousand times every morning of my life But I never saw these eyes so clear free of doubt and pain Like the whole world has been made again And it's all because you made me see what is false and what is true Like the inside and the outside of me is being made again by you

Marillion 'Made Again'

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 12:07:04 -0800 (PST) From: Jose Ochoa <liquidjo@yahoo.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Making of Images and Words Video Message-ID: <20001101200704.6290.qmail@web613.mail.yahoo.com>

I'm looking for this video:

-The Making of Images & Words - Mike Portnoy's home video footage

If any jammerz have it and interested in trading, heres my list and email me if interested.

http://hometown.aol.com/everyone68/myhomepage/profile.html

Thanks, Jose

__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? ]From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer. http://experts.yahoo.com/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 14:42:08 -0600 From: Brad Plumb <bplumb@pi-r-squared.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: ProgPowerUSA Message-ID: <2.2.32.20001031204208.00fcf244@pi-r-squared.com>

>You're missing the point Brad. He didn't just say "In my opinion PoS's music >is very emotional." You may note that in my original post I *explicitly* >said that it was all my opinion. He said, "if you find that lacking in >emotion I'd really love to hear what you DO consider emotional." The clear >implication is that I have a skewed sense of what is "emotional." It's >obviously just a progsnob way of saying, "If you find PoS lacking in >emotion, I bet you think simplistic trash like Green Day is emotional." > >More or less. :) > >-Brian >

And I think you have a paranoia complex :P That may very well be what he meant, but I think most of us interpreted it (judging by the other replies) as "Damn, this guy must be hard to impress." If someone comes up to you and says: "The Empire State BUilding is pretty big" and you say "Nah, not really..." they're likely going to be surprised. If they respond "well what DO you consider big," they're not implying that you never step out of the local hot dog store. They're simply in shock that you would consider something that is obviously, and generally acknowledged to be, a large building as small. They're more likely to think you're a snob, than an idiot. Hell, I'm not a big fan of POS OR anything (haven't heard enough), but I can judge from what I've heard, and their rep, that they ARE a pretty emotional band (a lot of people would argue TOO emotional (angsty, etc). Anyway, that's not the point. The point is that you've got progsnobaphobia. Wake up Brian, only a few of us are actually trying to insult you. :P

Palpatine www.pi-r-squared.com/brad/ Co Founder of NARF: The North Houston Anime Resistance Force, and Historian of Anime-no-kai

"There is nothing more pragmatic than idealism" -David Mamet

"With all its luck and all its danger The war is dragging on a bit Another hundred years or longer The Common man won't benefit. Filthy his food, no soap to shave him The regiment steals half his pay. But still a miracle may save him: Tomorrow is another day! The new year's come. The watchmen shout. The thaw sets in. The dead remain. Wherever life has not died out It staggers to its feet again."

-Bertolt Brecht. Mother Courage and her Children

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 14:47:27 -0600 From: "Brian O'Brian" <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: re: fair use etc. long but hopefully worthwhile. Message-ID: <B625DD7E.79C4%hayd0029@tc.umn.edu>

> > ----- Original Message ----- > ]From: "Chris Oates" <aspect-lists@tinagh.org> > > Not entirely true. By my understanding, "Fair Use" specifies that an > individual who has bought a CD may make copies for their friends to listen > to. Thus, your friends wanting a dub of a CD you own is perfectly > legal. Napster's argument is that their program falls under that > category. The RIAA argues that napster users aren't "friends" and so are > not covered... > -------------------------------------- > > "Fair Use" means that you can make copies for YOURSELF to use, not your > friends.

Um, mostly wrong. Fair use in the analog world means just that: "fair use." What exactly falls under fair use is determined on a case by case basis in the courts with just one strict rule:

1. If you don't own the copyright and the work is not in the public domain, then making any profit from copying said work is not fair use. It's piracy, obviously.

Legally, you can tape a song or two for a friend. You cannot, legally, make a friend an entire tape dub of an album. Legally, that's piracy (which I think is stupid because there's still no profit involved, but that's an issue of philosophy, not law). You can read case law regarding this type of thing...I don't remember particular cases but do a search for the Audio Home Recording Act.

Note that I said "in the analog world." Legally, the digital world comes under a different law, which has yet to explicitly pass Constitutional muster in the Supreme Court. The Digital Millenium Copyright Act basically revoked "fair use" on the internet. Thus, as I mentioned in an earlier example in this thread, it is actually now illegal to post a term paper containing quotes from other works on the internet, but you can plaster it on physical bulletin boards anywhere you want. This of course is a non-sensical double standard, but nobody ever accused the government of being sensible.

What it comes down to is this:

1. We are seeing critical shifts in the way technology affects (and effects) the transfer of information.

2. The people who are creating this stuff don't give a shit about politics, in general; they feel it is a dinosaur which only applies to their life in the most vague and unseen ways: ie, they have to fork over cash once a year to some mysterious faceless thing called the IRS, and in return they have roads to drive on. That's about the extent of the political involvement on that side of the equation.

3. The people who *are* up to their elbows in the political side of it, namely the politicians and lawyers etc, would rather the masses stayed illiterate and easily subjugated, so all this technology is a critical double threat: not only do people have access to unprecedented amounts of information, but those "in power" don't have any idea what's going on, much less how it works, and of course respond predictably. Any time people with a vested interest in maintaining a hold on society see the hold start to erode, they go reactionary and resort to ignorant scare tactics to sway public opinion, since most of the public doesn't really understand what's happening either.

It's interesting that these scare tactics are always the same, whether you're talking about the political response to the printing press, public education, or the internet. It always boils down to that old bugaboo, "it's going to destroy our children's morals."

Example? Violence among children. I bet you think it's on the rise. Why, George Bush did us all the favor in the last debate of letting us know that the internet is "turning the hearts of our children dark." It's a proven fact that playing Doom makes people kill each other.

Guess what? It's all an utter and complete lie, but you'll never hear the media say it because, as we've already covered, they also have a vested interest in the status quo. If you bother to look at *any* research, *any* measure of violence among children, you'll see that it's been dropping for years, and dramatically. The big difference now is that since there's a hot-topic scapegoat, the Internet, the major blowups get more press than they otherwise would have. "The internet is turning the hearts of our children dark" makes for good press. "America is a nation of rotten parents who raise their children to embrace ignorance, to conform, and to fear and ridicule the Other and thus foster an atmosphere in modern schools of simmering hatred" is something that nobody wants to hear. We don't want to know what's wrong with ourselves. We want to know what's wrong with some strange geek who sat around plotting how to starve artists to death when he should have been out getting drunk and wearing the school colors at a football game.

Oh, wait. We *already* starve artists to death. I guess we'll have to find something else to pin on him.

-Brian

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.

-W.B. Yeats

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 14:56:38 -0600 From: "Brian O'Brian" <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: ProgPowerUSA Message-ID: <B625DFA6.79CB%hayd0029@tc.umn.edu>

on 11/1/00 2:53 PM, Brad Plumb at bplumb@pi-r-squared.com scribbled in vibrant crayola:

> And I think you have a paranoia complex :P That may very well be what he > meant, but I think most of us interpreted it (judging by the other replies) > as "Damn, this guy must be hard to impress." If someone comes up to you and > says: "The Empire State BUilding is pretty big" and you say "Nah, not > really..." they're likely going to be surprised. If they respond "well what > DO you consider big," they're not implying that you never step out of the > local hot dog store. They're simply in shock that you would consider > something that is obviously, and generally acknowledged to be, a large > building as small. They're more likely to think you're a snob, than an > idiot. Hell, I'm not a big fan of POS OR anything (haven't heard enough), > but I can judge from what I've heard, and their rep, that they ARE a pretty > emotional band (a lot of people would argue TOO emotional (angsty, etc). > Anyway, that's not the point. The point is that you've got progsnobaphobia.

Haha, quite true, that's what happens when I'm on this list for five years. :) And if someone told me that the Empire State Building is pretty big, I would say not really. I'm from Chicago, where "big" really means something. As in "Big skyscrapers" and "Big Hurt" and "Big shoulders" and "big asshole." ;D

-Brian

Check out the hook while my DJ revolves it.

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Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 16:08:20 -0500 From: "Kez" <kez@spectrum-internet.com> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: ProgPowerUSA Message-ID: <000d01c04447$ddb57f40$0300005a@kezp3800>

Mr. Plumb, in the Conservatory, wrote:

Well said, Brad. Thank you for putting into clear, coherent language, what I wanted to say. I kept getting hung up on words like arrogance, asshole, attitude, etc., and I didn't want to come off badly. Thanks again.

> Wake up Brian, only a few of us are actually trying to insult you. :P

Now THIS is a thread I could jump into....... :)

Be nice, Kez

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Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 15:30:57 -0500 From: "James Arin Colberg" <JamesArin@snet.net> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: fair use etc. long but hopefully worthwhile. Message-ID: <020501c04442$c54a8720$b420fc40@jamesarin>

----- Original Message ----- ]From: "Brian O'Brian" <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu> > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > ]From: "Chris Oates" <aspect-lists@tinagh.org> > > > > Not entirely true. By my understanding, "Fair Use" specifies that an > > individual who has bought a CD may make copies for their friends to listen > > to. Thus, your friends wanting a dub of a CD you own is perfectly > > legal. Napster's argument is that their program falls under that > > category. The RIAA argues that napster users aren't "friends" and so are > > not covered... > > -------------------------------------- > > > > "Fair Use" means that you can make copies for YOURSELF to use, not your > > friends. > > > Um, mostly wrong. Fair use in the analog world means just that: "fair use." > What exactly falls under fair use is determined on a case by case basis in > the courts with just one strict rule:

"mostly wrong"? Just how many analog CDs do you own anyway? ;^) We are pretty much no longer in an 'analog world'.

> 1. If you don't own the copyright and the work is not in the public domain, > then making any profit from copying said work is not fair use. It's piracy, > obviously. > > Legally, you can tape a song or two for a friend. You cannot, legally, make > a friend an entire tape dub of an album. Legally, that's piracy (which I > think is stupid because there's still no profit involved, but that's an > issue of philosophy, not law).

"mostly wrong"? In Chris Oates message he says "By my understanding, "Fair Use" specifies that an individual who has bought a CD may make copies for their friends to listen to. Thus, your friends wanting a dub of a CD you own is perfectly legal." He was talking of dubbing a CD, not a song or two. A good example of "Fair Use" came into play when people wanted to have a copy to listen to in the car which wasn't very conducive to playing records. Unless you didn't mind the needle arm skimming across the surface of your LP the whole time you were driving. ;^)

Later, Jim

I have seen this face a thousand times every morning of my life But I never saw these eyes so clear free of doubt and pain Like the whole world has been made again And it's all because you made me see what is false and what is true Like the inside and the outside of me is being made again by you

Marillion 'Made Again'

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