YTSEJAM digest 5772

From: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Date: Tue Feb 20 2001 - 09:44:03 EST

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YTSEJAM Digest 5772

Today's Topics:

1) Home Loans for Any Credit - Get Cash Now!
by <HomeloanzNow!@xoip.com>
 2) a few more thoughts on the ethics of Napster
by "Matthew Tedesco" <Matthew.Tedesco@colorado.edu>
 3) Jens and programming?
by Andreas Skarin <sdts@sdts.nu>
 4) Check this out
by Graham Boyle <gjboyle@optushome.com.au>
 5) in response to your posting in YTSEJAM Digest 5768
by Andreas Schaefer <jerry@muc.de>
 6) Aussie concerts
by mildew@ucla.edu
 7) Re: The NPASTER Question
by "Paul Tadday" <dreamryche@bigpond.com>
 8) Dan's all-purpose Bitchfest
by Dan Costello <axeman_dannl@juno.com>
 9) blah blah blah napster
by OPeCKiE Productions <emoeglin@wezl.org>
10) shut up about napster already, gods
by "gloom gloom" <gloomchen@anada.net>
11) TransAtlantic CD
by CyberDuke <duskob@mol.com.mk>
12) Re: Kitchen Freaks
by Brian Hansen <bhansen10@yahoo.com>
13) mp3s / Napsteriada
by CyberDuke <duskob@mol.com.mk>
14) Napster.
by "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@enchantize.com>
15) food
by "Dan McCormack" <demccor@CLEMSON.EDU>
16) Paying someone for their work
by schew@interzone.com (Steve Chew)
17) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5770
by Nicholas Sakkos <cassidy@x-treme.gr>
18) Napster is ethically legitimite, because:
by "Eyal Ben David" <eyalbd@yahoo.com>
19) Re: food (for thought)
by OPeCKiE Productions <emoeglin@wezl.org>
20) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5771
by Zartan4@cs.com
21) Napzter
by CyberDuke <duskob@mol.com.mk>
22) napster is good
by "Andre Navarro" <gan_andre@hotmail.com>
23) Inagaddadanapsta
by mildew@ucla.edu
24) Re: %#$#^!! Napster, of course
by "Dark Majesty" <shadow_majesty@hotmail.com>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 05:51:45
From: <HomeloanzNow!@xoip.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Home Loans for Any Credit - Get Cash Now!
Message-ID: <76.2757.102034@xoip.com>

<html>

<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=windows-1252">
<meta name="GENERATOR" content="Microsoft FrontPage 4.0">
<meta name="ProgId" content="FrontPage.Editor.Document">
<title>Interest rates are the lowest  they have been in 18 months</title>
</head>

<table width="349">
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 Interest rates are the
lowest they have been in 18 months!   
 
 
 </td>
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</table>

<table width="350">
 <tr>
 <td style="border-bottom: 1px solid #000000" vAlign="top" width="54">Refinance</td>
 </tr>
 <tr>
 <td vAlign="top" width="284">Find out how much
 you can save by refinancing your existing mortgage.</td>
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 <tr>
 <td vAlign="top" width="284">Tired of high
 monthly bills and even higher interest rates? We can take all of your
 monthly bills and consolidate them into one low monthly payment. </td>
 </tr>
 <td style="border-bottom: 1px solid #000000" vAlign="top" width="286">Purchase</td>
 <tr>
 <td vAlign="top" width="284">Buying a home?
 Let us get you pre-approved and find you a mortgage at the lowest
 available rate.</td>
 </tr>
</table>

<table cellSpacing="0" cellPadding="3" border="0" width="348">
 <tbody>
 <tr>
 <td align="middle" width="340">
 
 Applying is easy! Just
 complete 
 our <a href="http://1072682306/kinner22/g03.html">online
 form</a>.  
 
 
 <tr>
 <td align="middle" width="340"></td>
 </tr>
 </tbody>
</table>

</body>

</html>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 13:53:00 -0700
From: "Matthew Tedesco" <Matthew.Tedesco@colorado.edu>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: a few more thoughts on the ethics of Napster
Message-ID: <005501c0985a$73907720$d0598a80@fx1f00b>

> From: "Paul Tadday" <dreamryche@bigpond.com>
> wrong. At the end of the day there is no black and white argument when it
> comes to Napster.

Arguably true. Importantly, though, whether or not such an argument
concerned the morality of Napster *actually* exists says *nothing* about the
objective fact of the matter concerning whether Napster is *in fact*
immoral. That's still up for grabs.

>
> From: "Niklas Thorpenberg" <031-7049409@telia.com>
>
> Why are some of you getting so upset about this whole Napster thing? I =
> mean, no one has been able to prove that Napster hurts either musicians =
> or record companies.

Again, likely true, but this assumes that the rightness or wrongness of an
action is entirely settled by the circumstances obtaining as a result of
that action. First off, though nobody has been able to prove this point,
that does not mean that the point *cannot* still be established. Second,
there's at least something to the idea that other things matter in morality
beyond its consequences.

>
> From: Graham Borland <graham@picsel.com>
>
> The fact that some of their users store, and make available, stolen or
> unauthorised material on their (the users) own computers is not in
> any way Napster's fault.
>
> I find that most people who are opposed to Napster simply have no clue
> about how it works.
>

Fair enough. However, there still remains a legitimate question about what
purpose Napster serves. This is an extreme example, but it seems plausible
enough: imagine I had a machine which helped locate people. The machine,
however, could also be used (as an unintended but unavoidable side-effect)
to kill them. So, while some people use the machine for the good reasons
that I intended it to be used for, others--many others--used it for the
*other* reason. I could claim that I am not responsible for the mis-use of
this service that I'm providing, and that might be at least a little
plausible. However, given that my machine facilitated enormous amounts of
unethical actions as well, it seems a legitimate complaint to make against
me that my machine should be shut down.

Best,
Matt Tedesco

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 22:44:57 +0100
From: Andreas Skarin <sdts@sdts.nu>
To: Ytsejam <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Jens and programming?
Message-ID: <3A8D9F59.9B30A495@sdts.nu>

I was browsing some Eudora plugin page, and came
across a plugin called "Eudora Perl Plugin",
supposedly created by a Jens Johansson". Hmmm, I
thought.... and when I saw the URL below
(something with "panix" in it) I was almost sure.

Am I the only one unaware about him being a
program developer? It's a shame that a talented
musician must have a "day job" when assholes like
Ricky Martin is making millions feeding the
uninformed public with the crap they love. Or
maybe it's just a hobby? Jens?

-- Andreas Skarin Svenska Dream Theater-S=E4llskapet http://www.sdts.nu - mailto:sdts@sdts.nu

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 09:13:13 +1100 From: Graham Boyle <gjboyle@optushome.com.au> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Check this out Message-ID: <3A8DA5F8.BDF290B@optushome.com.au>

http://www.saunalahti.fi/jylppy69/bsbgay.swf

then pick yourself up off the floor

graham

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 23:41:40 +0100 From: Andreas Schaefer <jerry@muc.de> To: Brian Hansen <bhansen10@yahoo.com> Cc: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: in response to your posting in YTSEJAM Digest 5768 Message-ID: <4.1.20010216143228.0092b5b0@mail.muc.de>

>Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 20:53:26 -0800 (PST) >From: Brian Hansen <bhansen10@yahoo.com> >To: ytsejam@torchsong.com >Subject: re: Kitchen Freaks [..] >Agreed. Music good, good vocals, lyrics lacking. [..] >Disagreements with the political content of the lyrics >aside, they also suffer a bit from the Yngwie school >of "not quite proper" English at times. Only an issue >if you're a picky bastard. ;o)

I just knew you wouldn't let it go and had to post something to that effect. ;-) "Picky bastard" aside, how about gun-toting racist elitist? Too bad there's not too many talented musicians/bands around that use the high form of prose to promote right-wing theories... And last I remember you weren't exactly speaking her Majesty's English either, were you?

take it with a grain of salt, jerry

-- --------------------------------------------------------------- Andreas Schaefer jerry@muc.de ...bei 200 Grad 15 Minuten backen, und keine Eier! - Tool ---------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 15:24:39 -0800 From: mildew@ucla.edu To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Aussie concerts Message-ID: <200102162323.PAA08686@panther.noc.ucla.edu>

>> There are >> also rumours of Tool, Dio, Slash, Bon Jovi, Creed, Devin Townsend

Excuse me while I fantasize but it would be AMAZING if Tool and Devin did a show together. Can you imagine Devy and Maynard on the same ticket? I'm tearing up just at the thought of that.

Or maybe it's from the effort of trying to read through Mad's Napster post with my super short attention span, then seeing it posted again in full in reply.

~~Amanda

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 10:28:26 +1100 From: "Paul Tadday" <dreamryche@bigpond.com> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: The NPASTER Question Message-ID: <001401c09870$29e97a20$518836cb@PaulTadday>

For crying out loud... Someone PLEASE wake me up when this whole debate is over... Let's give it a rest already!!

--Paul (heading into hibernation)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 18:46:46 -0500 From: Dan Costello <axeman_dannl@juno.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Dan's all-purpose Bitchfest Message-ID: <20010216.184831.-402069.0.Axeman_dannl@juno.com>

Where the hell's my '98 Xmas CD?!? Dammit, I sent my money in yesterday!!!

I think I'm gonna sue Napster for all the money it's cost me. Granted, I haven't released any music, but my computer sucks up a lot of electricity when it's downloading illegal mp3's - and since my napster abuse is a symptom of a more serious form a digital cleptomania, I feel the Napster should reimburse me because they've tempted me beyond the tolerance levels of my disability.

On a more serious note, everybody be happy for me - I just had an interview with Lockheed Martin in Syracuse, NY today. Things went very well, and I should know within a couple days whether or not they'll make me an offer. Offers for recent Comp Sci grads usually are about $52k w/ a $2k - $4k signing bonus - I feel like Alex Rodriguez :-). So who knows, in a couple months, I may actually buy some of those cd's that I've illegally downloaded. :-)

-Dan.

________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 18:47:19 -0500 From: OPeCKiE Productions <emoeglin@wezl.org> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: blah blah blah napster Message-ID: <3A8DBC07.50F4EAB0@wezl.org>

Anyone else sick of this? You either love it or hate it...or you're in the middle...either way it's useless. Here's a new thread for you...Chocolate milk, is it evil because of the carb/fat content, or good because of the protein value? And why isn't there whole, one percent, or skim chocolate milk? Do the members of DT enjoy chocolate milk? (just for DT content) discuss amongst yourselves.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 17:57:02 -0600 From: "gloom gloom" <gloomchen@anada.net> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: shut up about napster already, gods Message-ID: <001401c09874$2804b7c0$c02d0b18@dubuq1.ia.home.com>

> Sheesh. Give it up, Napster defenders. For whatever your reasons, you're > defending the illegal distribution of music. That's all there is to it.

And I'm gonna say it right now:

I DON'T CARE THAT IT IS ILLEGAL.

The people that download millions of albums... they weren't gonna buy the CD anyway. Kinda like me. I have a bunch of Cyndi Lauper songs, but I don't want to buy the CD, I just wanted to hear them again. And since they don't play them on the radio anymore, and I certainly don't want to hear them 21290834 times again on CD, I am left with a choice: NOT hear the song or download it. So I download it! And it gives me 4 minutes of happiness. And then it's over. I don't delete them, because many people I know will say, "You know... I haven't heard XX song in ages." Then I whip it out and they are happy. Just like "Shiny Happy People" is entertaining about once every 3 years, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna buy the CD just for THAT.

People who smoke weed don't care that it's illegal. They like being high! Nothing wrong with trying to legalize it, as long as you understand that yeah, it's not legal.

*******HERE IS WHERE YOU WILL GET YO'SELF SOME LEGAL MP3S FOR DIRT DOLLAZ CHEEP******** Go to emusic.com and for $45, you get 3 months to download as many albums as you want. They say "every artist gets paid for every download" or whatever, which I find hard to believe, cuz I've got a cable modem and 3000 albums on my way. Guilt free! Cuz it's LEGAL!

....gloomchen NP: Kids of Widney High "Insects"

`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`' Anada e'zine: http://anada.net e-mail: gloomchen@anada.net AIM: demonicpikachu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 22:50:45 +0100 From: CyberDuke <duskob@mol.com.mk> To: Ytsejam <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: TransAtlantic CD Message-ID: <3A8DA0B5.B43AE164@mol.com.mk>

On the last track the cover, the end of the song! The final kick is being played and 1 second before the whole CD finishes and stops spinning, there's a voice saying "ISN'T I.."

I don't see how this would be no mistake, has to be mistake. :( It seems like the speaking part in the intro.

"Dalay Lama: Well my son, life is like a bean stock (?), isn't it? "

Heck, at leats my CD has this on its final second, any other?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 16:24:30 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Hansen <bhansen10@yahoo.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Kitchen Freaks Message-ID: <20010217002430.15850.qmail@web12105.mail.yahoo.com>

Jan Melander <jan.melander@got.wmdata.se> wrote:

> Well, I think they have quite good lyrics, OK they are often straight > to the point but mostly done with a tongue-in-the-cheek approach. > The lyrics on the latest CD is quite dark but on the older material > often quite crazy and not as serious as they sometimes seems.

Yeah, I've only heard the "Dead Soulmen" disc, and the lyrics are pretty dark. I'll have to check out some of their earlier stuff...

Chris Oates <aspect-lists@tinagh.org> wrote:

> I've come to be used to that. Even Pain of Salvation can get a bit > awkward at times.

Yeah, I'm also used to it. PoS is probably my favorite band right now. Occasional, slight problems with grammar don't detract from a great recording as a whole. I cited Yngwie since his lyrics tend to be the worse case. (He's still one of my favorite guitarists, and you can't beat his instrumental work, IMHO.)

__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 01:30:33 +0100 From: CyberDuke <duskob@mol.com.mk> To: Ytsejam <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: mp3s / Napsteriada Message-ID: <3A8DC629.C6B59D76@mol.com.mk>

> why wouldn't it be just as easy to go to that band's website and > download the MP3 songs and/or samples that the artist themselves > have placed there

Why some folks stick to this "pitiful way of doing it"? ;(

Don't try to tell me that hearing 20 seconds snippets are enough for us music maniacs to get to know about a band! (we're talking here about new bands you wanna check out) I for one HATE snippets. I don't want someone else chooses what part of the song to hear, and which song, may it be the artist himself. There are many possible tricks to pull off with that stuff too, like putting up only the goodies so that you get horny for the album, you go buy it and see the rest of the albums junk. It happened to me.

The kind of music listener I am, and I think most of you are that way too, you can't get satisfied with 20 second snippet.

Sometimes I don't even listem any snippet or full songs available if I am sure I want that CD. Ultra Zone, ... I bought that one without thinking. SFAM - same. But there ARE albums which I would rather check them out before buying them. Platypus, after the horrible 2-nd album (except 3 tracks) I would NEVER buy the 3-rd one of any Platypus denomination now, without downloading the whole album first. And if I happen to like 4 songs and not the rest, I will deleted those and keep the 4 tracks as mp3s on my hard drive with perfectly clean conscious.

"I never bought a CD I didn't like?" What kind of rubbish is that? Good for you, but spare us from your conclusions drawn from your experience.

> > I don't have foreign contacts, and if some band from Thailand or > > is worried about a couple(hundred) people downloading their > > album overseas, then they should release it domestically. > > Should and could are different things. Do you honestly believe that > there are many musicians in the world who DON'T want their music > released in the US? Do you know ANYTHING about the process of > recording and releasing music? Do you know anything about > record contracts and distribution?

And do you know how much money you end up to spill out in order to buy an Swedish imported CD online, including the shippment to your homeland Zimbabwe?

somebody else said: > We all love music. Some can afford to buy cds, > some can't. It's as simple as that.

Yes it is, but some try to say that you don't have the right to listen music if you don't fulfill certain social, financial criterias.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 20:50:05 -0700 From: "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@enchantize.com> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Napster. Message-ID: <005f01c09894$c8ee3510$344153d8@washburn>

This is exactly why I think that the Mike Portnoy Forum is the place to be. I swear to God this Napster shit is fucking old already. I'm probably missing some good literature from skimming so goddamn much. All it is is "Napster Good! Napster Bad!" So? Take a side, eat a twinkie, take a nap, and shut the FUCK up ([tm] Denis Leary). There are plenty of other crimes being committed in the world for you to go on crusades about. Jesus Please Us. -- KorgX3 takes Napster, turns it sideways, and jams it up yo candyass.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 03:16:59 -0500 From: "Dan McCormack" <demccor@CLEMSON.EDU> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: food Message-ID: <004601c098b9$fffa9d80$702010ac@clemson.edu>

> good because of the protein value? And why isn't there whole, one > percent, or skim chocolate milk? Do the members of DT enjoy chocolate

i think it's because it wouldnt taste very good. ovaltine, for example - with 2% milk it nox my radz. however, try and make it with skim milk, and youve got brown water. i imagine pre-made chocolate milk would suffer from the same thinness.

> milk? (just for DT content) discuss amongst yourselves.

MP seems to me like he probably enjoys a nice cold brown one occasionally (shut up). JR definitely appreciates the finer points of chocolate milk, i'm willing to bet. as for james... do they have chocolate milk in canada? i know its all stuck in the past and stuff, what with their cops on mooses and lack of crime (get with the times you canucks!). thats my thoughts anyway. chocolate milk is easy though. you want a hard one? cinnamon toast: toast and then butter, or butter and THEN toast? they each have their advantages. if you butter first, then the butter has a chance to melt and provides a better clinging surface for the cinnamon/sugar combination... however, it doesnt work too well on vertical toasters... moo.

*** END OF TRANSMISSION ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 03:59:52 -0500 (EST) From: schew@interzone.com (Steve Chew) To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Paying someone for their work Message-ID: <m14U3Dc-000IR1C@mail.interzone.com>

> >hits come from debut albums. Those folks are not making much, if any money >per disc. The bottom line is YOU don't have the right to say who does and >who doesn't deserve to be paid for their work. Do I have the right to tell >you you don't deserve to be paid for your computer work? No. Why do you >have the right to say who should get paid for their MUSIC work? It's a job. >It's a shit paying job. > While I would prefer that artists get paid for their work...

To be the devil's advocate... As the consumer I often do have a right to decide whether I pay someone for his or her work. If you are a contractor and do a crappy job building my house, I can take you to court and avoid paying you. Certainly if I create a program that isn't what the customer expected or wanted, then they will not pay me. This option doesn't really exist when buying CDs, but it is arguable that it should. :-)

Also, technically I do have a voice about who should or should not be paid for their work. The government enforces copyright which is why I'm legally required to pay for the contents of a CD (even if it's just an MP3). Since I vote for who gets elected to government (and thereby affect what laws are passed) I do have a voice (albeit a very small one) concerning whether musicians or programmers should be paid for their work. The constitution of the US grants me that voice and that right. If enough people who don't believe that intellectual property should be copyrighted get organized they could (in theory) affect whether musicians get paid for their work and for how long. However, the government fairly recently passed a law to extend the duration of copyrighted works by another 20 years so it doesn't look like copyrights are going away any time soon.

On the other hand, as intellectual property (IP) becomes more easily copyable (via the internet, MP3s and other digital representations of IP) I think that the attitudes toward IP will begin to change. Since I can copy your MP3 without depriving you of your MP3 (unlike if I borrowed your lawn mower) it is hard to compare this directly to stealing. I think this is part of the psychological reason why people see little harm in copying MP3s. In many ways it is a benefit to society to have instant access to intellectual property via that copying (you could imagine this for things like medical software, etc). The person who loses is the inventor of the IP who in the copyright system stands to gain through his creativity. I think that most people want the inventor to gain for his creativity, so perhaps in the future there will be alternative ways for the inventors to be compensated without having to pay for every copy made. It will be interesting to watch...

Steve

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 08:58:38 +0200 From: Nicholas Sakkos <cassidy@x-treme.gr> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5770 Message-ID: <3A8E211D.C91B6E69@x-treme.gr>

Graham Borland wrote: >They provide a distribution mechanism, just like the Royal Mail in the >UK, or the US Postal Service (whatever it's called) provide a way for >you to physically distribute stolen CDs or illegal material if you >choose to. That doesn't make them responsible for it.

Napster and those postal services are not that much related...unless you can find a postal service that distributes stolen cd's exclusively.Or maybe i'm missing your point. I'm not anti or pro-napster.What i can't understand is,if an artist does not wish his music (intellectual property) to be distributed through napster how can someone even argue about the right or wrong of his/her decision. And should we be rightfully able to listen every single piece of music that is out there?If so why. Don't want to get in anyone's face with this post,i'm not sure if it even has a point anyway.Just raising some questions i cannot answer by myself.

someone_else

ps:i do use napster,not that often,but i don't see why i should convince everyone that what i do is right

np:Nirvana cover of Enter Sandman (Metallica) - RARE RARE.mp3

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 17:23:33 +0200 From: "Eyal Ben David" <eyalbd@yahoo.com> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Napster is ethically legitimite, because: Message-ID: <001f01c098f5$9adc1d20$78e0cbc7@w2j3t2>

A: People who download songs on napster usually don't do it instead of buying the CD, because downloading a full CD you'd otherwise buy is more trouble than its worth. Hence, it only helps bringing an artist's music to a whole new croud who wouldn't have bought the CD, and makes the artist work harder by not letting him have a one-hit-record, sold in millions of copies . B: Let's face it, the guys who make the money off of the CDs are the Record Companys, and let's just say that Elektra doesn't suffer from shortage in the field of money right now. C: It helps new bands (like mine, for example) by giving them an option of distributing their music to firends, by telling them to download songs from Napster. D: Let's face it, except for LITS, where can you find the DT show in Milan '93. E: The most important one: it gives us a chance of making a statement and to show the guys in the Record Companys that they can't rase the prices, and have us buying their records like lab rats forever!

Chewy out.

_________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 10:38:05 -0500 From: OPeCKiE Productions <emoeglin@wezl.org> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: food (for thought) Message-ID: <3A8E9ADD.38115999@wezl.org>

I gotta go Toast, then butter...ya just have to be quick to do it while it's still hot as hell...and use a butter spread, not margarine, or some kinda cheap-ass nasty butter that's gonna tear up the bread...talk about a buzz kill! Even worse than cinnamon toast...PB&J...peanut butter then jelly, or jelly then peanut butter? And when ya eat the sandwich...which goes towards the top? And does a TRUE DT dan carve a goofy little majesty symbol in the peanut butter before they eat it? (or a seriously obsessed DT fan)

Dan McCormack wrote: > you want a hard one? cinnamon toast: toast > and then butter, or butter and THEN toast? they each have their advantages. > if you butter first, then the butter has a chance to melt and provides a > better clinging surface for the cinnamon/sugar combination... however, it > doesnt work too well on vertical toasters... moo. > > *** END OF TRANSMISSION ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 12:53:02 EST From: Zartan4@cs.com To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5771 Message-ID: <2f.111d7e8f.27c0147e@cs.com>

could the jam get any more self-indulgent? are you ALL geniuses and know everything? it appears that way. how boring can this thing get? by the way, get a job and stop living on the ytsejam, or at least stop using it while working. im always wondering why people think they should get paid for playing on the internet. can i ask for an honest response as to how many jammers are actually reading and responding while on the clock? the only reason i can is because i dont have a job! :) DT are good

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Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 11:20:10 +0100 From: CyberDuke <duskob@mol.com.mk> To: Ytsejam <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Napzter Message-ID: <3A8E505A.D1C45848@mol.com.mk>

> the overwhelming opinion of college-level Napster users is > that they can find it online and CDs are so expensive.

While reading this a thing came to my mind. How is that different from owing a postcard with Mona Lisa, or a fake painting of it??? An mp3 is not the original music, it is a copy, by many folks a less quality copy.

And about those students, ... If someone wants to buy the original CD - he will. The one who doesn't want - he won't. With or without modern technology aka Napster/mp3s. Why those bitchers try to justofy their theories

Those folks who really don't care for music that much WILL make their way to the few songs they happen to like via Napster, e-mail, radio, recording it from a friend's CD etc. The artist in ANY POSSIBLE way dones't get the money from that punk.

And another thing, ... it's a little funny how some folks bitch about Napster, and in many cases The Almighty Artist himself (that those people use in their anti-Napster arguments) says he don't mind Napster at all. So if Artist named <fill in> is not against, who the heck are you?

> Sheesh. Give it up, Napster defenders.

Sheesh! I hope you're prepared for the nervous breakdowns expecting you (if you continue with such a attitude) from tons of Napsters-like programs to come out in the next 3 years. It's your health. :)

> Gun makers make product for legal use only (licensed hunting, > use by governmental organizations, etc.). No gun manufacturer > makes a product specifically for criminal murder (vs. a war)

Jesus Christ, I don't believe this!!!! Drop the Napster issue, this thing said on its own is plain ridiculous. but just what are all those Kalashnikov, Magnums made for? What are the Gulf and Balkan syndrom? Those bombs with depleted uranium were used just because someone wanted to grow new spieces of cucumber in their gardens, or were they maybe manifactured SPECIFICALLY to make some severe damage to multicellular life forms, and collateral damage of few zillions 1 celluar ones???

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Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 20:30:46 -0400 From: "Andre Navarro" <gan_andre@hotmail.com> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: napster is good Message-ID: <OE68LFfJNwPmxd22RQY0000083f@hotmail.com>

Napster is really good, check it out, I bought an original Rhapsosy - Legendary tales CD from the money I made selling Audio CDs from MP3's I downloaded. Looks like I'll pre-order the DT DVD with this money too. =)

------------------------------------------------------------------ Andre Navarro "Hoooowdy hooo!" -Mr. Hanky

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Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 16:35:02 -0800 From: mildew@ucla.edu To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Inagaddadanapsta Message-ID: <200102180033.QAA00604@serval.noc.ucla.edu>

Like that horrid song, this debate seems to never end. Just when I was at the point of damning all of you in ack mode that apparently sit in front of the computer waiting for the next far too verbose email to come in and carefully typing out your far too verbose reply, I think I'm about ready to switch to ack mode and filter out anything with "Napster" in the subject.

~~Amanda I bitch, because I can.

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Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 13:19:24 -0600 From: "Dark Majesty" <shadow_majesty@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: %#$#^!! Napster, of course Message-ID: <F42WIgZr8QopoXFiiCu00008b06@hotmail.com>

On Fri, 16 Feb 2001 at 11:58:34 -0800 (PST), "Dr. Mosh" <drkhoe@xinu.irv.concentric.net> sed:

>>What about tape trading? I buy a CD, tape it, give it to a friend, he tapes it, gives it to a friend? You've lost control of "distribution" of your music. You want to control "distribution" of your music?? Simple, don't release your music. The only thing musicians and others have against napster is it's convenience and the misconception that you're getting a perfect copy of the original song. If making tapes were as easy as pointing and clicking and distributing them among a million of your friends, you people would be against tape making too.<<

Actually, the two are not really all that similar. If you make a tape of a CD for a friend, then at least one person must have bought the album being duplicated, no? Also, maybe other people don't do this, but I like to put a variety of songs on tapes (which I usually make for my own personal use when I don't have access to a CD player), such as putting one song each off of about 15 CDs on a tape. Now, if I were to distribute one of these tapes to a friend, I have bought 15 CDs and he has 15 songs. If he wanted to copy the tape, he would have to buy a blank tape to copy it onto. Napster, however, would let my friend and I have all 15 CDs worth of material, and neither of us would have to buy any of the CDs. We would only have to buy a few blank CD-Rs to burn the songs onto. Also, if I bought the CDs, then the artist had control over the songs being released, which is apparently the major argument right now.

Also, I'm sorry for my misinformation about how Napster works, I've never been anywhere near Napster itself. I was of the understanding that you go to their site, find your song (or songs, or 200 full albums), download it onto your HD, and then burn it onto a blank CD. To me, that implies that these songs are being stored ON Napster, which must not be the same as being on Napster's server (you'll have to forgive me, I'm not very familiar with the internal workings of the Internet). But either way, it seems to me that Napster is in possession of these songs, therefore they are responsible for their distribution. If this is not the way this whole thing works, somebody PLEASE let me know so I quit looking like an ass.

--96 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

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