YTSEJAM Digest 5987
Today's Topics:
1) Re: Brazil and lack of respect
by Brian Hansen <bhansen10@yahoo.com>
2) Re: Brazil and lack of respect
by "Rob Pociluk" <robpociluk@dreamtheater.zzn.com>
3) Re: Brazil and lack of respect
by Lisa Palma <firegirl@colorsofsound.com>
4) Before you make a comment...
by Chris Elder <twilightzone@mindspring.com>
5) Re: Before you make a comment...
by JamesAhab@aol.com
6) rob pociluk, you are the first ...
by julio fucinos <jfucinos_jam@yahoo.es>
7) DT in Rolling Stone
by Michael & Pamela Nazer <mnazer@pressenter.com>
8) RE: Brazil and lack of respect
by "Nick Bogovich" <bogie@schliz.com>
9) The future looks bright
by "Souter, Jan-Michael" <JSouter@healthaxis.com>
10) Re: The future looks bright
by "Carlos A. Alfaro" <calfaro@yunque.net>
11) RE: The future looks bright
by "Souter, Jan-Michael" <JSouter@healthaxis.com>
12) Re: The future looks bright
by Michael & Pamela Nazer <mnazer@pressenter.com>
13) Re: The future looks bright
by "Carlos A. Alfaro" <calfaro@yunque.net>
14) Re: The future looks bright
by "Dr. Mosh" <drkhoe@hydra2.gmsnet.com>
15) Re: The future looks bright
by Eric George <edgeorge@geneva.edu>
16) Re: The future looks bright
by "Carlos A. Alfaro" <calfaro@yunque.net>
17) Re: The future looks bright
by "Carlos A. Alfaro" <calfaro@yunque.net>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 13:34:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Hansen <bhansen10@yahoo.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: Brazil and lack of respect
Message-ID: <20011008203432.39533.qmail@web12104.mail.yahoo.com>
"Paul W. Cashman" <pellaz@atl.mediaone.net> wrote:
> If someone had flown two airliners into
skyscrapers in Rio de Janeiro,
> with coverage all over CNN, the U.S. and
the world had outpoured
> help and assistance (as we would have), and an
artist from, say,
> Sweden then paid tribute to Brazil on a U.S. stage,
I
can't imagine an
> American audience responding in the same way.
I agree with Paul. America would be offering aid,
sending rescue crews, money, food, clothes, etc. And I
can't imagine a crowd booing if Yngwie got up and
played someone else's national anthem. As long as it
has a good melody. ;o)
"Rob Pociluk" <robpociluk@dreamtheater.zzn.com> wrote:
> When was the last time Americans supported a country
when it wasn't in OUR interests?
> Please don't try preaching to me on this one. We
trained Bin Laden!!!
> How can you not say this is OUR problem that WE
created?
Who are you calling "Americans"? That's a pretty broad
category. Are you an "American"? Are you guilty of all
these crimes you accuse "America" of? That's about as
ignorant as calling all of the Islamic countries
"terrorists". Most of the Americans I know do NOT
support many of the stupid things that the government
might do.
As for Bin Laden, I take it that your opinion is that
no one is responsible for their own actions? Whine
somewhere else. The person who is DOING the terrorism
is the guilty party. Or maybe we should blame Osama
Bin Laden's mommy for not giving him enough love.
If a Policeman loses his mind and starts murdering
people, is it the Police Department's fault for
training him? Give me a break!
"Maarten Braakhekke" <Breakgate@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I myself am from the Netherlands and I
think the general
> response to the attacks in my country and also in
the rest
> of the world was VERY hypocrital. Terrible stuff
like this,
> and worse, is happening every day and has been
happening for
> decades if not centuries all over the world.
Well, if you're talking about the News media, forget
about about any even or fair reporting there. It's all
self-serving propaganda. Of course they make a big
deal about New York. It's the home of the American
media, and closely related to the International media.
They don't talk about far away and remote places
because they are FAR AWAY AND REMOTE (from the people
who produce the crap you see on tv).
If the international NEWS media was based in Kabul,
you'd be hearing a lot more about Afgahnistan. Pretty
simple stuff here...
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 18:35:58 -0400
From: "Rob Pociluk" <robpociluk@dreamtheater.zzn.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: Brazil and lack of respect
Message-ID: <0C5205EF5FBEED8419315A0A75C2739B@robpociluk.dreamtheater.zzn.com>
Typical testosterone. Whatever. You're more American than me. Obviously. Point missed. No surprise. Later.
---- Begin Original Message ----
From: Brian Hansen <bhansen10@yahoo.com>
Sent: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 13:44:56 -0700 (PDT)
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: Brazil and lack of respect
"Paul W. Cashman" <pellaz@atl.mediaone.net> wrote:
> If someone had flown two airliners into
skyscrapers in Rio de Janeiro,
> with coverage all over CNN, the U.S. and
the world had outpoured
> help and assistance (as we would have), and an
artist from, say,
> Sweden then paid tribute to Brazil on a U.S. stage,
I
can't imagine an
> American audience responding in the same way.
I agree with Paul. America would be offering aid,
sending rescue crews, money, food, clothes, etc. And I
can't imagine a crowd booing if Yngwie got up and
played someone else's national anthem. As long as it
has a good melody. ;o)
"Rob Pociluk" <robpociluk@dreamtheater.zzn.com> wrote:
> When was the last time Americans supported a country
when it wasn't in OUR interests?
> Please don't try preaching to me on this one. We
trained Bin Laden!!!
> How can you not say this is OUR problem that WE
created?
Who are you calling "Americans"? That's a pretty broad
category. Are you an "American"? Are you guilty of all
these crimes you accuse "America" of? That's about as
ignorant as calling all of the Islamic countries
"terrorists". Most of the Americans I know do NOT
support many of the stupid things that the government
might do.
As for Bin Laden, I take it that your opinion is that
no one is responsible for their own actions? Whine
somewhere else. The person who is DOING the terrorism
is the guilty party. Or maybe we should blame Osama
Bin Laden's mommy for not giving him enough love.
If a Policeman loses his mind and starts murdering
people, is it the Police Department's fault for
training him? Give me a break!
"Maarten Braakhekke" <Breakgate@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I myself am from the Netherlands and I
think the general
> response to the attacks in my country and also in
the rest
> of the world was VERY hypocrital. Terrible stuff
like this,
> and worse, is happening every day and has been
happening for
> decades if not centuries all over the world.
Well, if you're talking about the News media, forget
about about any even or fair reporting there. It's all
self-serving propaganda. Of course they make a big
deal about New York. It's the home of the American
media, and closely related to the International media.
They don't talk about far away and remote places
because they are FAR AWAY AND REMOTE (from the people
who produce the crap you see on tv).
If the international NEWS media was based in Kabul,
you'd be hearing a lot more about Afgahnistan. Pretty
simple stuff here...
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
---- End Original Message ----
Dream Theater : The Official Site - http://www.dreamtheater.net/
____________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE Web and POP E-mail Service in 14 languages at http://www.zzn.com.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 15:59:53 -0700
From: Lisa Palma <firegirl@colorsofsound.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: Brazil and lack of respect
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011008155656.023691e0@mail.colorsofsound.com>
At 03:40 PM 10/8/2001, "Rob Pociluk" <robpociluk@dreamtheater.zzn.com> wrote:
>Typical testosterone. Whatever. You're more American than
>me. Obviously. Point missed. No surprise. Later.
Weren't you going to shut your yap a couple of posts ago? I can find your
post and quote it for you if you've forgotten.
~L
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 23:39:56 -0600
From: Chris Elder <twilightzone@mindspring.com>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Before you make a comment...
Message-ID: <B7E7E9CC.17C4%twilightzone@mindspring.com>
Know what you are talking about...
> When was the last time Americans
> supported a country when it wasn't in OUR interests?
Not to start anything here, but since there is a lack of music related
posts, what the hell. I feel the need to defend my country.
RP
Read this, it might clear up your confused mind, along with anyone that is
confused about our/ MY great country, ahem... Maarten:
TRIBUTE TO THE UNITED STATES
This, from a Canadian Newspaper, is worth sharing.
America: The Good Neighbor.
Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a remarkable
editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television
Commentator. What follows is the full text of his trenchant remarks as
printed in the Congressional Record:
"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most
generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth.
Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of
the debris of war by the AMericans who poured in billions of dollars and
forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying
even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.
When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who
propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the
streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.
When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that hurries in
to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes.
Nobody helped. The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of
dollars into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are
writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans.
I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the
erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any other
country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the
Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC-10? If so, why don't they fly them?
Why do all the international lines except Russia fly American Planes? Why
does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on the
moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk
about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about American
technocracy, and you find men on the moon -not once, but several times - and
safely home again.
You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store
window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued
and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless they
are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at
home to spend here.
When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through
age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad
and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them and old caboose.
Both are still broke.
I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other
people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to
the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during
the San Francisco earthquake. Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm
one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They
will come oout of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they
are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their
present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those. Stand proud, America!
Wear it proudly!!"
and...
>Terrible stuff like this, and worse, is happening every day and has been
>happening for decades if not centuries all over the world.
So it is common for other countries to lose billion dollar monuments, and
hundreds of billions more in the economy, lost companies and the like. Not
to mention 6,000 innocent people murdered. Not likely. You are comparing
grapes to watermelons.
This message reminds me of some video footage of Afghanis celebrating the
day of the attacks, passing out M&Ms to the kids, meanwhile there is a Pepsi
machine clear as day in the background. Now who are the hypocrites?
- chris
Every dominating sports team knows: when you're on top, everybody wants a
piece of you.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 00:08:47 EDT
From: JamesAhab@aol.com
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: Before you make a comment...
Message-ID: <ce.1b87e1d8.28f3d24f@aol.com>
--part1_ce.1b87e1d8.28f3d24f_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
In a message dated 10/8/2001 11:54:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
twilightzone@mindspring.com writes:
>< >Terrible stuff like this, and worse, is happening every day and has
been >happening for decades if not centuries all over the world.
So it is common for other countries to lose billion dollar monuments, and
hundreds of billions more in the economy, lost companies and the like.=A0 No
t
to mention 6,000 innocent people murdered.=A0 Not likely.=A0 You are compari
ng
grapes to watermelons. ><
Us Americans have certainly been ignorant to the dozens upon dozens of
terrorists attacks that have happened all over the world and had no effect o
n
us, but it is safe to say that none of them were as big in scale as this. No
buildings this size, no death toll this large, and no economic loss this big
has ever been seen in the history of terrorism. Don't take that statement th
e
wrong way, though, because I'm certainly not saying that previous terroist
attacks were less tragic just because less people died.
Still in all, I can't help but bring up the fact that America is responsible
for possibly the largest mass murder in history. I don't know the death toll
of the holocaust, so I can't say Hiroshima and Nagasaki *definitely* killed
more people - and that was war, this is terrorism - but the point is, we've
been guilty of some heinous things in the past. I'm just thankful that our
present government hasn't reacted the way the Truman administration did, or
we might be dropping nukes on the entire middle East right about now.
- jim
--part1_ce.1b87e1d8.28f3d24f_boundary
---YTSEJAM FILTER: Rest of message skipped because of attachment
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 07:51:54 +0200 (CEST)
From: julio fucinos <jfucinos_jam@yahoo.es>
To: ytsejam <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: rob pociluk, you are the first ...
Message-ID: <20011009055154.78356.qmail@web20909.mail.yahoo.com>
hi there ...
after reading the last ytsejam's issues and millions
of posts to dt.net, i've realized that american people
are more blind that i could never imagine ... but
something happen some minutes ago, when i read rp's
post on the jam ...
> When was the last time Americans supported a country
> when it wasn't in OUR interests?
hummm, just remember somalia, rwanda, the balcans,
chechnia ... where was the uncle sam there? of course
i am not saying that the us should act as the "world
police" (us SHOULDN'T ...) but it seems that many of
the american people who write to ytsejam and dt.net
believe they are the "world police" ...
if you want to read a very interesting post on this,
you should try one post at dt.net's mb, signed by
"tiago" (a brazilian guy), where he exposes very
clearly what brazilian felt when they listened to
yngwie (sp?) play the us national anthem again and
again ...
c u
_______________________________________________________________
Nokia Game ha comenzado
Haz clic y disfruta de la nueva aventura multimedia de Nokia
antes del 3 de noviembre.
http://es.promotions.yahoo.com/info/nokiagame.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 06:42:14 -0500
From: Michael & Pamela Nazer <mnazer@pressenter.com>
To: ytsejam <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: DT in Rolling Stone
Message-ID: <B7E84CC6.17AC%mnazer@pressenter.com>
In the oct.25th issue of Rolling Stone there is a brief mention of DT and a
picture of the cover art.(pg 34 and 38).
Pam
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 08:17:43 -0400
From: "Nick Bogovich" <bogie@schliz.com>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: RE: Brazil and lack of respect
Message-ID: <D42A162CC83A7F40AD63994DE54129C601F190@arcadia.schliz.com>
If the police department trains him to become this mass murderer, then
it is absolutely the police department's fault for training him.
-bogie
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Hansen [mailto:bhansen10@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 4:45 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: Re: Brazil and lack of respect
If a Policeman loses his mind and starts murdering
people, is it the Police Department's fault for
training him? Give me a break!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 12:37:17 -0500
From: "Souter, Jan-Michael" <JSouter@healthaxis.com>
To: "'ytsejam@torchsong.com'" <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: The future looks bright
Message-ID: <74ACE5A6CB89D3119E6F00609720274A06BA2536@ISDCRE00>
New York - Year 2032
> >
> > A father and his son are walking the Manhattan streets > > when the
father stops at a vacant lot takes a deep > > breath and tells his son: To
think that at one time > > here on this very lot stood the Twin Towers.
> >
> The son looks at his father and asked: Dad, what are > > the Twin Towers?
> >
> > Father says: My dear son, the Twin Towers were two > > tremendously tall
buildings with lots of offices that > > was the heart of the United States,
but approx. 31 > years ago, several Arabs destroyed the buildings.
> >
> > The boy then thought for a minute and then asked his > > father: Daddy
what are Arabs?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 13:55:01 -0400
From: "Carlos A. Alfaro" <calfaro@yunque.net>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: The future looks bright
Message-ID: <000701c150eb$8522edc0$39351ec8@atenas>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Souter, Jan-Michael" <JSouter@healthaxis.com>
To: "Multiple recipients of list" <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 1:43 PM
Subject: The future looks bright
> New York - Year 2032
Kind of distasteful, IMO.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 13:19:50 -0500
From: "Souter, Jan-Michael" <JSouter@healthaxis.com>
To: "'ytsejam@torchsong.com'" <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: RE: The future looks bright
Message-ID: <74ACE5A6CB89D3119E6F00609720274A06BA253F@ISDCRE00>
As was the attack in New York.
Time for that kind of activity all over the world to end.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carlos A. Alfaro [SMTP:calfaro@yunque.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 1:10 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list
> Subject: Re: The future looks bright
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Souter, Jan-Michael" <JSouter@healthaxis.com>
> To: "Multiple recipients of list" <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 1:43 PM
> Subject: The future looks bright
>
>
> > New York - Year 2032
>
> Kind of distasteful, IMO.
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 13:26:04 -0500
From: Michael & Pamela Nazer <mnazer@pressenter.com>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: The future looks bright
Message-ID: <B7E8AB6C.17B5%mnazer@pressenter.com>
I find this very offensive. I will not condemn the Arab people. These acts
were most likely done by Islamic extremists. Blaming all Arabs would be
like blaming all Christian people for the actions of the kkk.
Peace,
Pam
on 10/9/01 12:43 PM, Souter, Jan-Michael at JSouter@healthaxis.com wrote:
> New York - Year 2032
>>>
>>> A father and his son are walking the Manhattan streets > > when the
> father stops at a vacant lot takes a deep > > breath and tells his son: To
> think that at one time > > here on this very lot stood the Twin Towers.
>>>
>> The son looks at his father and asked: Dad, what are > > the Twin Towers?
>>>
>>> Father says: My dear son, the Twin Towers were two > > tremendously tall
> buildings with lots of offices that > > was the heart of the United States,
> but approx. 31 > years ago, several Arabs destroyed the buildings.
>>>
>>> The boy then thought for a minute and then asked his > > father: Daddy
> what are Arabs?
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 14:44:50 -0400
From: "Carlos A. Alfaro" <calfaro@yunque.net>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: The future looks bright
Message-ID: <000901c150f2$7bf29e10$39351ec8@atenas>
> As was the attack in New York.
>
> Time for that kind of activity all over the world to end.
>
Right, all arabs need to be exterminated to a point that 31 years from now
kids
wont know they didnt even exist. THAT will solve all the terrorist problems
in the
world right?
sheesh...
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 12:04:35 -0700
From: "Dr. Mosh" <drkhoe@hydra2.gmsnet.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: The future looks bright
Message-ID: <20011009120435.A43947@hydra2.gmsnet.com>
What's wrong with blaming "christians"?? The name of God has been used to kill
more people and destroy more civilizations than any other name of the same.
-The Doc
Signal received 0. Michael & Pamela Nazer <mnazer@pressenter.com> said:
> I find this very offensive. I will not condemn the Arab people. These acts
> were most likely done by Islamic extremists. Blaming all Arabs would be
> like blaming all Christian people for the actions of the kkk.
>
> Peace,
>
> Pam
>
>
> on 10/9/01 12:43 PM, Souter, Jan-Michael at JSouter@healthaxis.com wrote:
>
> > New York - Year 2032
> >>>
> >>> A father and his son are walking the Manhattan streets > > when the
> > father stops at a vacant lot takes a deep > > breath and tells his son: To
> > think that at one time > > here on this very lot stood the Twin Towers.
> >>>
> >> The son looks at his father and asked: Dad, what are > > the Twin Towers?
> >>>
> >>> Father says: My dear son, the Twin Towers were two > > tremendously tall
> > buildings with lots of offices that > > was the heart of the United States,
> > but approx. 31 > years ago, several Arabs destroyed the buildings.
> >>>
> >>> The boy then thought for a minute and then asked his > > father: Daddy
> > what are Arabs?
> >
> >
> >
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 15:23:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric George <edgeorge@geneva.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: The future looks bright
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1011009151240.29842A-100000@sparcy.geneva.edu>
On Tue, 9 Oct 2001, Michael & Pamela Nazer wrote:
> I find this very offensive. I will not condemn the Arab people. These acts
> were most likely done by Islamic extremists. Blaming all Arabs would be
> like blaming all Christian people for the actions of the kkk.
>
extremely good point. just as the actions and beliefs of the kkk have
absolutely nothing to do with christianity, the actions of the terrorists
have nothing to do with true islam. on the radio the other day, there was
an interview with the 4 head-religious figures of the islamic faith (don't
know what they're officially called). anyhow, one of them was actually
quoted as saying that if there is any kind of jihad (holy war) to be
declared (since technically, they are the only one's that can officially
declare jihad), that it should be declared against bin laden and his band
for the lines that they have crossed & for what they are doing "in the
name of islam". those that actually hold to what islam is really all
about are disgusted with bin laden. excellent way, mr. souter, of
promoting a stereotype that doesn't hold true (as most don't either).
show a little more class, despite how you may want to vent whatever anger
& frustration you seem to have. direct it at those that deserve it, not
those who don't, & especially those that defend the one's that unjustly
fall under your blanket stereotype.
lovin' God, country, & my music,
eric
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 15:34:24 -0400
From: "Carlos A. Alfaro" <calfaro@yunque.net>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: The future looks bright
Message-ID: <001b01c150f9$67000d60$39351ec8@atenas>
> What's wrong with blaming "christians"?? The name of God has been used to
kill
> more people and destroy more civilizations than any other name of the
same.
>
> -The Doc
Yes but would you call for the annihilation of *all* people that are
christian based
on the actions of those who have used the name of God to do all those
things?
-Carlos
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 15:36:36 -0400
From: "Carlos A. Alfaro" <calfaro@yunque.net>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: The future looks bright
Message-ID: <003101c150f9$b5dcf4c0$39351ec8@atenas>
> What's wrong with blaming "christians"?? The name of God has been used to
kill
> more people and destroy more civilizations than any other name of the
same.
>
> -The Doc
Furthermore, would you think then that all Americans are guilty and should
be erradicated, because of the millions of people that the US gov. has
killed as well?
It makes no sense.
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 5987
**************************
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