YTSEJAM Digest 6101
Today's Topics:
1) DT's new cd...
by jewels737@aol.com
2) Re: Silly sound-alikes...
by schew@interzone.com (Steve Chew)
3) Vocal Melodies...
by schew@interzone.com (Steve Chew)
4) Solitary Shell Rip Off...NOT!!!
by Bill Cahill <rycher@optonline.net>
5) New DT Videos?
by "Kevin Hammer" <tufif_de_siks@hotmail.com>
6) Myung & Moore
by "Dr. Scott Mosher" <ninja@mindspring.com>
7) Re: Solitary Shell Rip Off...NOT!!!
by "Rob Pociluk" <robpociluk@dreamtheater.zzn.com>
8) Re: DT's new cd...
by "Rob Pociluk" <robpociluk@dreamtheater.zzn.com>
9) Do we WANT DT on MTV?
by Dave Peterson <razortag@yahoo.com>
10) Re: Do we WANT DT on MTV?
by "Dave Schott" <admdave@qis.net>
11) Re: Do we WANT DT on MTV?
by "Gary M. Gettier" <gmgettier@home.com>
12) Re: New DT Videos?
by Eric George <drizzt@sdf.lonestar.org>
13) well,well DT Hamburg review, outrage, Star Wars
by Sebastian Keil <keil.s@web.de>
14) Re: Do we WANT DT on MTV?
by LaxBoy329@aol.com
15) Re: Vocal Melodies...
by Ilia <painlessscream@yahoo.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 23:20:05 EST
From: jewels737@aol.com
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: DT's new cd...
Message-ID: <f8.16261791.298e1475@aol.com>
Didn't DT say something about not being able to top SFaM...and that they
weren't even going to try and do so? They're just playing and they're darn
good! Who cares if a riff here and there sounds similar to something else?
Oh no! Come on people...how many musicians are there out there, huh?
Something can sound similar to something else and not mean that they're
copying...there are only so many notes that one can play with an instrument.
Geez...it's DT, they're freaking amazing as it is! What other music sounds
as cool as this stuff? There isn't much...let me tell you. I think the cd
is really good...it has some weak points...but isn't that the point in this?
If it were perfect, what would they have to improve upon in their next album?
We'd all get bored with it if it were so. So stop picking at it and start
loving it. It's a great cd...and quite long...6 songs maybe...but it's
nearly 100 minutes of music. Good deal I think. Later
Julie
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 03:19:59 -0500 (EST)
From: schew@interzone.com (Steve Chew)
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: Silly sound-alikes...
Message-ID: <m16XHsV-000JyEC@mail.interzone.com>
>
>> YES!! Solitary Shell comes from Peter Gabriel. And The Great Debate takes
>> its riffs from the same Tool song that HOME did!! And there's a lot
>> more. Sometimes it's good to have influences and reshape some other band's
>> material, but it's obvious on this CD that a lot of music was taken, AND
>> IT STICKS OUT TOO MUCH in some places!!
>>
>well, i don't really have a gripe about being able to take note of the
>bands influences as is reflected in their songs, but i just thought that
>for those of you that do, you should at least know that the Tool riff used
>in "Home" was from the song "Forty-six & two" from Aenima. The Tool riff
>used in "The Great Debate" however, is from the song "Sober" from
>Undertow. Both are undoubtedly Tool riffs slightly revamped, but they are
>deffinetly from two sepperate Tool songs. Thought you should at least
>have the facts straight. :)
>
While Solitary Shell is vaguely reminiscent of Solisbury Hill by
Peter Gabriel, I doubt it was based on it. Take a listen to them side
by side, they have similar aspects but aren't the same.
While we're on amusing comparisons, the beginning of Misunderstood
sounds vaguely (very vaguely) like part of the start of Thank You by
Led Zeppelin. :)
Steve
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 03:52:44 -0500 (EST)
From: schew@interzone.com (Steve Chew)
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Vocal Melodies...
Message-ID: <m16XIOC-000Jy5C@mail.interzone.com>
OK, I'll preface this by saying I like 6DoiT -- especially Glass
Prison and Misunderstood. So, don't kill me... ;-)
Does anyone else feel that Dream Theater's vocal melodies have
gone downhill lately? Vocals are very important to me and I like to see
them have a strong melodic influence. One of the things I love about
Images and Words and Awake are the wonderful vocal melodies that fit
tightly with the music. See songs like Learning to Live, Pull Me Under,
Take the Time, Voices, Space Dye Vest, etc...
I just don't get into the vocal melodies as much with the more
recent DT CDs, especially SfaM and now 6DoiT, but probably starting
with FII. I thought that maybe I was just more familiar and comfortable
with the older tunes since I heard them first so I put all the DT CDs
into the changer and listened again. There was still something about
the vocal delivery during the earlier CDs that I prefer.
A lot of the SfaM vocals seemed a bit stilted to me but I always
put it down to the play-like lyrics. But, after hearing 6DoiT I think
that it's more than that. Don't get me wrong -- I still like many
of the vocals -- but it seems that they're not quite up to par with the
earlier albums. On the other hand, I do like how LaBrie varies his
singing style more these days with some harsher delivery mixed in with
his classic operatic style.
I'm not sure that it's any single aspect of the vocals that
troubles me. But, while listening to them all again I noticed that
the more recent vocals seemed to have a more disjointed delivery.
Often, you'll find that each line of the lyrics is delivered independently
of the next one, with a pause between them. It gives the singing
something of a spoken quality. Not all the time mind you, but often.
Many of the older songs would use that style occasionally but would also
consist of longer melodic lines delivered in a fluid style. The vocals
would also be more tightly integrated into the music, rather than
almost chanting over it in the more recent songs. I find that I prefer
the fluid style and that small change makes a big difference to me in
the feel of the song.
Actually, I'm not even sure that's the real difference, since
there are exceptions that I could point to on every album. For example,
I think that Misunderstood is a return to the older fluid vocal style
with longer melodic lines and blending with the music (and I like it).
But, it's the only thing that I could positively identify.
Am I crazy? Does anyone else feel similarly about the vocal
delivery? :-)
Steve
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 03:09:02 -0500
From: Bill Cahill <rycher@optonline.net>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Solitary Shell Rip Off...NOT!!!
Message-ID: <00e601c1ac8a$0b19f780$6501a8c0@ftpserver>
If so many different people are hearing it (I recognized it immediately
being a Gabriel fan), how can you deny it?
> Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 14:21:59 -0500
> From: "Rob Pociluk" <robpociluk@dreamtheater.zzn.com>
> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
> Subject: Re: Solitary Shell Rip Off...NOT!!!
> Message-ID:
<6CC0F6D47C7B7D04D9E70F747145BA13@robpociluk.dreamtheater.zzn.com>
>
> Sorry folks, just because a song has an acoustic guitar intro with a bass
drum...doesn't make it a ripoff nor does it actually SOUND
> like Solsbury Hill. To sit and dissect this song or the Great Debate like
this seems pretty damn silly. I thought you guys liked DT.
> Lighten up! It's just music!!! This is not rocket science here. :)
>
> Rob
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 11:40:53 -0500
From: "Kevin Hammer" <tufif_de_siks@hotmail.com>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: New DT Videos?
Message-ID: <LAW2-OE25E8vBPB20HG0000f1a0@hotmail.com>
I thought of something yesterday, so here goes....
In order for a band to become really successful, they have to be on MTV
In order to get on MTV, you have to first, sound like the other bands on MTV
(which for the first time since PMU, DT actually does!) and secon, have a
high quality music video
Now the tricky part......
In order to have a high quality music video, you have to NOT LET MIKE
PORTNOY MAKE THE VIDEO!
Mike seams to have taken control of just about everything in the band (and
is doing a good job at it). I liked what he did with the live DVD, but if
they put out another crap video like the ones from FII or Awake (actually,
Lie was pretty cool, but Silent Man was pretty bad too) they'll never make
it into regular rotation.
Their live DVD and CD set and their new CD have been selling a lot more than
the label probably expected, so now they have the extra leverage to either
A: get the label to a hire high quality video director and crew, have a
great video, be on MTV all the time which will lead to being on the radio,
which will lead to DT finally getting the attention they deserve, or B: let
Mike make the video, which will probably be lame, and either get played very
rarely or not at all, and it's back to obscurity for the guys.
Just my thought, anyone else?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 12:11:46 -0500
From: "Dr. Scott Mosher" <ninja@mindspring.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Myung & Moore
Message-ID: <3C5D6F31.3289756A@mindspring.com>
Well, that's a strong statement, MR. Rob Newcombe, but I tend to somewhat agree. Portnoy/Pertrucci's material tend to fall into the more
theatrical, melodramatic arena, that I can take or leave (although, undoubtably, they have written some GREAT songs, and some great lyrics,
don't mistake my opinion for otherwise), MYung and Moore, tend to fall in the slightly more abstraction, emotionally impressionistic and
eccentric stage.
James just writes lyrics, and generally, 0-2 songs per disc (see FII). I guess since all song music is now credited to
'Myung/Petrucci/Portnoy/Rudess', LaBrie is allowed more lyrical freedom and input?
Well, I just GOT the CD, so into the player it goes. No preconceived notions other than I'm sure it's atleast GOOD.
Scott
VIRTUALITY: http://www.theambientmind.com/virtuality
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 13:30:49 -0500
From: "Rob Pociluk" <robpociluk@dreamtheater.zzn.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: Solitary Shell Rip Off...NOT!!!
Message-ID: <225B4FC96EDB386488D7314858ACB445@robpociluk.dreamtheater.zzn.com>
<<If so many different people are hearing it (I recognized it immediately
being a Gabriel fan), how can you deny it?>>
Well Bill, for starters...the CHORDS are all different! As I said, using an acoustic guitar and a bass drum does not make them the
same. As far as "so many different people" hearing the same thing, too many people on here are always ripping apart everything
these guys do! I mean, Mike could rip a fart in a song and it'd get analyzed to death! I've been on this list since 1993 or so and this
stuff gets worse all the time. It's one thing to review stuff, but this is silly. I needed to vent. I am done venting.
Rob
Dream Theater : The Official Site - http://www.dreamtheater.net/
____________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE Web and POP E-mail Service in 14 languages at http://www.zzn.com.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 13:35:50 -0500
From: "Rob Pociluk" <robpociluk@dreamtheater.zzn.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: DT's new cd...
Message-ID: <D09790313AA8857458E4F6480B98DBAD@robpociluk.dreamtheater.zzn.com>
Julie, I totally agree. Couldn't have said it better myself!!!
Rob
---- Begin Original Message ----
From: jewels737@aol.com
Sent: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 20:29:13 -0800 (PST)
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: DT's new cd...
Didn't DT say something about not being able to top SFaM...and that they
weren't even going to try and do so? They're just playing and they're darn
good! Who cares if a riff here and there sounds similar to something else?
Oh no! Come on people...how many musicians are there out there, huh?
Something can sound similar to something else and not mean that they're
copying...there are only so many notes that one can play with an instrument.
Geez...it's DT, they're freaking amazing as it is! What other music sounds
as cool as this stuff? There isn't much...let me tell you. I think the cd
is really good...it has some weak points...but isn't that the point in this?
If it were perfect, what would they have to improve upon in their next album?
We'd all get bored with it if it were so. So stop picking at it and start
loving it. It's a great cd...and quite long...6 songs maybe...but it's
nearly 100 minutes of music. Good deal I think. Later
Julie
---- End Original Message ----
Dream Theater : The Official Site - http://www.dreamtheater.net/
____________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE Web and POP E-mail Service in 14 languages at http://www.zzn.com.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 11:49:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Dave Peterson <razortag@yahoo.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Do we WANT DT on MTV?
Message-ID: <20020203194958.35911.qmail@web10707.mail.yahoo.com>
Every album that's put out, people always have to be saying "If we
pummel MTV with requests for it, blah blah blah, they'll be famous!"
Really, guys... Do you HONESTLY think the public would want to see DT
on MTV? Just because it's a little heaver this time around, doesn't
mean that it has anything at all to do with the popular stuff that's on
the radio/MTV right now.
Dream Theater is and will always be progressive metal. The mass public
DOES NOT LIKE progressive metal. Trust me on this. To most people,
Jame's vocals are pure "80's crap". Why? Because NO BAND on the radio
right now has a pure classically trained melodic male singer. That's
just the way things are right now.
I'm saying this because I wish DT fans would just be happy with the
fact that DT is the best progressive metal band in the world! They're
not starving, guys. They've been doing this for a long time and will
continue to make decent money. They don't need popularity (and
artistically don't want it). I have no doubt they're MUCH happier with
themselves these days because they can make that 40-minute epic and the
label really doesn't care because it knows they're not trying for MTV.
They're trying for their perfectly legitimate target audience:
prog-metal fans. There's money to be made there too, ya know!
If DT was on the radio, we'd get the 3:30 version with all the cool
stuff cut out. THAT'S NOT WHAT DT IS ABOUT!!! DT fans want it all
left in! That's why DT and MTV (and radio) just don't work.
Another reason DT shouldn't be on MTV... Their videos SUCK!!! If they
honestly want to make a dent in the MTV/VH1 market (bad idea) they had
better hire a professional video director who knows what the hell to do
to make them look good.
MTV also won't take them because these guys aren't spring chickens
anymore! MTV requires beauty first, talent second. Name an ugly or
old band on MTV right now. Again, not happening.
The VERY MOST you can hope for is to see a glimpse of them on VH1's new
rock show (name?) with Sebastian Bach as the host. Haven't seen it
yet, but you know Sebastian sees DT for who they are - a prog-metal
band. (Don't forget Sebastian worked with Portnoy (Porntoy) on the
Working Man Rush Tribute)
Anyway, I assume most people reading this are thinking "Well, yeah!
Duh!" I'm just trying to get through to the young impressionable youth
on the list that REQUIRES their favorite bands to be on MTV.
Let it go.
MTV would do nothing but SPOIL the prog-metal community. Be GLAD they
aren't poisoned by eMpTyV's filth.
Later!
- Dr. Teeth
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
http://auctions.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 15:00:43 -0500
From: "Dave Schott" <admdave@qis.net>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: Do we WANT DT on MTV?
Message-ID: <005501c1aced$879ca060$0100a8c0@dave>
I'm seventeen. I agree. Of course I don't watch TV (to quote JR). Music is
good. eMpTyV is bad.
Death Is The First Dancing Turtle
-AdmiralDave
(admdave@qis.net)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 15:06:08 -0500
From: "Gary M. Gettier" <gmgettier@home.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: Do we WANT DT on MTV?
Message-ID: <3C5D9830.C3E2A77D@home.com>
Dave Peterson wrote:
>
> The VERY MOST you can hope for is to see a glimpse of them on VH1's new
> rock show (name?) with Sebastian Bach as the host. Haven't seen it
> yet, but you know Sebastian sees DT for who they are - a prog-metal
> band. (Don't forget Sebastian worked with Portnoy (Porntoy) on the
> Working Man Rush Tribute)
I saw the show this week. Half of it was Bach and Slash (GNR) goofing off.
There were maybe 7 videos played, GNR, Skid Row, Puddle of Mudd, P.O.D. and
nothing else you haven't seen in the past or in the regular rotation.
Gary
-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gary M. Gettier gmgettier@home.com "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 23:00:18 +0000 (UTC) From: Eric George <drizzt@sdf.lonestar.org> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: New DT Videos? Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.33.0202032252490.4941-100000@sdf.lonestar.org>
On Sun, 3 Feb 2002, Kevin Hammer wrote:
> Mike seams to have taken control of just about everything in the band (and > is doing a good job at it). I liked what he did with the live DVD, but if > they put out another crap video like the ones from FII or Awake (actually, > Lie was pretty cool, but Silent Man was pretty bad too) they'll never make > it into regular rotation.
very good observation on the video thing, but i have one exception to throw into the mix. now, regardless of what a lot of people may think about the song itself *prepares for flaming to commence*, but the video for "Hollow Years" is a quality video, especially as far as the standards for MTV or VH1 go. It's got a very strong R.E.M. "Everybody Hurts" feel about it, which if you all remember that video's rotation was very heavy when it came out. There have been several others also more recently that use the similar elements to "Hollow Years", so if the band happened to go more that route, who knows. Personally, a video in the vein of Nickelback, Creed, Linkin Park, or Disturbed could deffinetly fit the style of this new album. here's hoping something is in the works!!!
fingers crossed, eric
-- "The least important things in life seem to get the most appreciation. The most important things in life don't seem to get enough."
-me
drizzt@sdf.lonestar.org IM screename - Ryften13 SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 00:30:19 +0100 From: Sebastian Keil <keil.s@web.de> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: well,well DT Hamburg review, outrage, Star Wars Message-ID: <200202032330.g13NUJv28564@mailgate5.cinetic.de>
hi there, just got back,from the show, and since I refuse to go to the MP forum, here's (ar) my 2 cents (in Euro): The setlistas far as I remember: Glass Prison 6:00 Strange Deja Vu Surrounded AnotherHand-Killling Hand Misunderstood Burning My Soul/with Hells Kitchen Great Debate Peruvian Skies Lie Pull me Under ------- Home Spirit Carries in Take the Time
Alright, fist things first: my girlfriend went along for the first time and just couldn't believe how diverse the audience was and how much DT was appreciated. She kinda thought only Robbie Williams would be able to command a crowd like DT did. She like d it mostly.
As you can see, a very diverse setlist, which was cool. However, you'll notice that no part of the SONG 6doit was performed, not even SS which I dig, like so many other, very much. Bummer. BMS with HK didn't work for me. One thing which I don't like about the first disc that much (yet?) became apparent live: the songs, especcially the endings are very moody and took alot of energy out of the show IMHO.
James had a tough start, but never gave up and ended up just fine, tight, really good. Personally, I could do withot MP's shades, but JR did some extra mileage, circling that little keyboard stand of his. Somebody mentioned JR's new hairdo, I think it looks like Eric Clapton in the late 80s, early 90s. Hearing 6:00 liveagain was a rare treat, also TTT and surrounded. TSCO still gives me the creeps.
NEGATIVE: I never minded paying 20 bucks for a shirt, I like to support OFB whereever I can, that was in DeutschMarks about 40. Now we have a new currency which is worth twice as much, so not 2 Marks=$1, but about 1 Euro= $1. However, Shirts started at $30!!! That's an outrage, $ 80 for the hooded top, hello!!! They just took the old prices and the new currency. To quote old Luke: "Mike, You Ask The Impossible" That has to be a mistake and I am pissed, cause I can live to long on $30 and , sorry, can't afford that. I hate to say it, but IMHO that is rip-off, I'd go cheaper ordering it online....
Anyway, the show was great rare treat these times,
keep on rocking guys.
sab
-- If you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything! ______________________________________________________________________________ Die Nummer, die man nie vergisst: Ihre persvnliche Wunschrufnummer von WEB.DE! Jetzt einsteigen http://freemail.web.de
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 20:47:12 EST From: LaxBoy329@aol.com To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Do we WANT DT on MTV? Message-ID: <d4.1291916c.298f4220@aol.com>
--part1_d4.1291916c.298f4220_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
i have seen them play Rush videos every so often on that show on vh1
Andrew
--part1_d4.1291916c.298f4220_boundary ---YTSEJAM FILTER: Rest of message skipped because of attachment
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 17:58:37 -0800 (PST) From: Ilia <painlessscream@yahoo.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Vocal Melodies... Message-ID: <20020204015837.74051.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>
I've noticed no such downstep. I think there are some wonderful melodies throughout the album, and the ones that are disjointed don't appear any more than they did on their previous releases. Which specific tracks/parts of songs were you referring to?
- Ilia. http://www.44lbs.com
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 6101 ************************** === Contributions to ytsejam: ytsejam@torchsong.com === === Send requests to: ytsejam-request@torchsong.com === === Brought by the ghost of ytsejam@arastar.coms past === === Reach the owner of this list at: ytsejam-owner@torchsong.com ===
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Thu Apr 01 2004 - 19:13:36 EST