YTSEJAM Digest 6358
Today's Topics:
1) Re: Feeding the soldiers??
by schew@interzone.com (Steve Chew)
2) Re: Feeding the soldiers??
by "Dr. Mosh" <drkhoe@zero.corp.publichost.com>
3) Re: Feeding the soldiers??
by Coldfire <coldie@bellatlantic.net>
4) Re: Economy
by Ilia <painlessscream@yahoo.com>
5) Porcupine Tree "In Absentia" full songs
by Rick Audet <spine@optical.mindstorm.com>
6) Re: Economy
by Eric George <drizzt@sdf.lonestar.org>
7) LiTS - dreamtheater.mit.edu
by "D C" <Iluvatar@twcny.rr.com>
8) Re: LiTS - dreamtheater.mit.edu
by Andrew Coutermarsh <andrew@cout.dhs.org>
9) RE: LiTS - dreamtheater.mit.edu
by "Souter, Jan-Michael" <JSouter@healthaxis.com>
10) RE: LiTS - dreamtheater.mit.edu
by Andrew Coutermarsh <andrew@cout.dhs.org>
11) well porcupine tree is....
by "Daniel Mikkola" <jcdrummer67@hotmail.com>
12) New Symphony X now available
by "Souter, Jan-Michael" <JSouter@healthaxis.com>
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Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 18:58:28 -0500 (EST)
From: schew@interzone.com (Steve Chew)
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: Feeding the soldiers??
Message-ID: <m186Jm8-003HCpC@mail.interzone.com>
>
>Dow Jones is not going to go up. If we fight against Iraq,
>it'll plunge. Perhaps not at first, when the idiots will say
>"We're in war, that makes the stock market go up right?" and
>they'll invest. Once it's obvious that there is no productive
>capacity backing the market, it will be on its way down for
>sure. War is a sure-fire way to demostrate that. I mean,
>answer this simple question: soldiers need roughly 5000 calories
>a day, who is going to supply them? How long can they?
>
Ilia, are you being serious here? *Feeding* the soldiers
is what's going to break the bank?? Come on. Let's assume for
a minute that we have to *increase* the size of the armed forces
(after all we feed the current armed forces somehow, right?)
beyond their current size by 1 million people (very unlikely).
Let's also assume that is costs $50 *per day* to feed them
(very unlikely). That comes to a total cost of $18.25 billion
per year. And you expect that is what's going to bring the
economy to its knees??
Please find a better "sure-fire" way to demonstrate
your point. At least mention that these alleged 1 million people will
be out of the workforce, the cost of armaments, or something. It's not
even that I disagree that war could cause ecomomic problems, but saying
it's because of the food the soldiers eat? You can do better.
Steve
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 16:42:08 -0800
From: "Dr. Mosh" <drkhoe@zero.corp.publichost.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: Feeding the soldiers??
Message-ID: <20021028164208.A22350@zero.corp.publichost.com>
WHOA WHOA WHOA
Alright, this is a DT list, and we've been through this crap before
either create your own mailing list or take it to private e-mail.
This isn't the economic debate forum and nothing is going to be
solved here.
Let's rehash the rules.
No political discussions
No religious debates
-The Doc
Steve Chew <schew@interzone.com> farted:
> >
> >Dow Jones is not going to go up. If we fight against Iraq,
> >it'll plunge. Perhaps not at first, when the idiots will say
> >"We're in war, that makes the stock market go up right?" and
> >they'll invest. Once it's obvious that there is no productive
> >capacity backing the market, it will be on its way down for
> >sure. War is a sure-fire way to demostrate that. I mean,
> >answer this simple question: soldiers need roughly 5000 calories
> >a day, who is going to supply them? How long can they?
> >
> Ilia, are you being serious here? *Feeding* the soldiers
> is what's going to break the bank?? Come on. Let's assume for
> a minute that we have to *increase* the size of the armed forces
> (after all we feed the current armed forces somehow, right?)
> beyond their current size by 1 million people (very unlikely).
> Let's also assume that is costs $50 *per day* to feed them
> (very unlikely). That comes to a total cost of $18.25 billion
> per year. And you expect that is what's going to bring the
> economy to its knees??
> Please find a better "sure-fire" way to demonstrate
> your point. At least mention that these alleged 1 million people will
> be out of the workforce, the cost of armaments, or something. It's not
> even that I disagree that war could cause ecomomic problems, but saying
> it's because of the food the soldiers eat? You can do better.
>
> Steve
-- -------------- http://www.zeromemory.com - metal for your ears.------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 19:45:39 -0500 From: Coldfire <coldie@bellatlantic.net> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Feeding the soldiers?? Message-ID: <3DBDDA33.E01E474B@bellatlantic.net>
Ya forgot one Doc.
NO METALLICA! ;)
"Dr. Mosh" wrote: > > WHOA WHOA WHOA > > Alright, this is a DT list, and we've been through this crap before > either create your own mailing list or take it to private e-mail. > > This isn't the economic debate forum and nothing is going to be > solved here. > > Let's rehash the rules. > > No political discussions > No religious debates > > -The Doc > > Steve Chew <schew@interzone.com> farted: > > > > > >Dow Jones is not going to go up. If we fight against Iraq, > > >it'll plunge. Perhaps not at first, when the idiots will say > > >"We're in war, that makes the stock market go up right?" and > > >they'll invest. Once it's obvious that there is no productive > > >capacity backing the market, it will be on its way down for > > >sure. War is a sure-fire way to demostrate that. I mean, > > >answer this simple question: soldiers need roughly 5000 calories > > >a day, who is going to supply them? How long can they? > > > > > Ilia, are you being serious here? *Feeding* the soldiers > > is what's going to break the bank?? Come on. Let's assume for > > a minute that we have to *increase* the size of the armed forces > > (after all we feed the current armed forces somehow, right?) > > beyond their current size by 1 million people (very unlikely). > > Let's also assume that is costs $50 *per day* to feed them > > (very unlikely). That comes to a total cost of $18.25 billion > > per year. And you expect that is what's going to bring the > > economy to its knees?? > > Please find a better "sure-fire" way to demonstrate > > your point. At least mention that these alleged 1 million people will > > be out of the workforce, the cost of armaments, or something. It's not > > even that I disagree that war could cause ecomomic problems, but saying > > it's because of the food the soldiers eat? You can do better. > > > > Steve > > -- > -------------- > http://www.zeromemory.com - metal for your ears.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 18:56:53 -0800 (PST) From: Ilia <painlessscream@yahoo.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Economy Message-ID: <20021029025653.1552.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>
--- Steve Chew <schew@interzone.com> wrote: > >Subject: Re: Economics (NDTC at all) > > > >First of all, why by the end of the year, or shortly after? > >Because that's when most of the financial institutions draw > >bottom lines. Also, spending season will be in full force, > and > >for financial aggregates, that just might be the straw that > >breaks the camel's back, considering the sizes of the > >speculative bubbles. Stuff like that.
I also wanted to mention that short-term predictions are at best unreliable. What I'm pointing to may not happen exactly when I say, but from my vantage point, it's going to happen.
> I've deleted the details about the current situation, which > were informative. Thanks. At one point you say that other > people think we may enter "a new dark age." Is this your > feeling as well?
I won't be that drastic. But we have to be honest. Look at the culture today, just watch TRL on MTV. Look at those idiots! They don't care at all about the economy. They don't care about their family, not all that much about their friends. They've turned into mindless, unhuman creatures that are hedonistic to no end. I'm sure most people on this list are disguisted by the way pop culture is heading.
Also, I'm not a fan of the utopians. The pure capitalists, the pure communists, the imperialists, they all got it wrong. The incredibly restricting politics of republican vs. democrat really misses the point. People will look at a candidate and say, "Well, he's got good ideas, but he's a democrat so I can't vote for him." Or republican, same thing. You hear it all the time - too left, too right, too radical, too conservative. In short, it's a problem of putting labels on things, and then judging them by those labels, not by what they actually are.
So are we headed for a dark age? The utopians, they're smart as shit. They know exactly which buttons to push, and they know how to get it to mass media networks. For the most part, because they were the ones who helped create them. It's a population of human cattle that we're dealing with, and in face of the economic collapse, who knows what could happen. I won't label it as dark age, it's just going to be what it's going to be (pardon the ineloquence).
> If so, what do you see happening at the end of the year to > mark it? Or, is it a gradual worsening of current conditions?
Roman Empire didn't fall in a day. British Empire didn't fall in a day. Russian Empire didn't fall in a day. It's not the end of the world, the significance of it is going to be a noticeable decrease in living conditions and the potential population density. In developing sectors, this will mean decrease in population, or at least its growth. Disease control will become more difficult, so overall health of populations will degrade. Stuff like that.
> You say that we have to revamp the current system. How > can we solve these systemic problems you mention?
Go back to gold-based standard of currency, first of all. Next, I'd say re-regulation. Of railroads, airlines, electricity, water, etc. Next, band HMOs and make the education system actually teach something, so that we have a cultural revolution as well as an economic one. I'd say bankrupcy reorganization is in order, FDR-style, and get rid of IMF. Massive infrastructural development to follow, and export technology to do the same in other countries. Do what's in our power to increase production, and once we're on our feet solidly, throw surplus into research, to improve technologies and get out of the depressing calculus of scarce resources that our economy has become.
In the words of Nigel, "And that's all I have to say."
- Ilia.
==== Always use the word impossible with the greatest caution. --- Wernher Von Braun
__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 00:14:50 -0500 (EST) From: Rick Audet <spine@optical.mindstorm.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Porcupine Tree "In Absentia" full songs Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10210290012310.25748-100000@optical.mindstorm.com>
Looks like Atlantic has made the entire album available to check out. Give it a whirl. http://feature.atlrec.com/porcupine_tree/index.html
Rick Audet San Francisco
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 05:14:25 +0000 (UTC) From: Eric George <drizzt@sdf.lonestar.org> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: Economy Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0210290509250.25572-100000@sdf.lonestar.org>
ilia, you forgot one thing my friend. how `bout also getting rid of the USELESS body we call the UN. should've been done a LONG time ago, but while we're mentioning things that need changed/revamped, that is something that just plain needs to be disintegrated: the United Nations.
there, that's my bit. now, back to music related things, before Mosh puts a contract out on me. -eric
On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, Ilia wrote:
> > You say that we have to revamp the current system. How > > can we solve these systemic problems you mention? > > Go back to gold-based standard of currency, first of all. Next, > I'd say re-regulation. Of railroads, airlines, electricity, > water, etc. Next, band HMOs and make the education system > actually teach something, so that we have a cultural revolution > as well as an economic one. I'd say bankrupcy reorganization is > in order, FDR-style, and get rid of IMF. Massive > infrastructural development to follow, and export technology to > do the same in other countries. Do what's in our power to > increase production, and once we're on our feet solidly, throw > surplus into research, to improve technologies and get out of > the depressing calculus of scarce resources that our economy has > become. > > In the words of Nigel, "And that's all I have to say." > > - Ilia. > > > === > Always use the word impossible with the greatest caution. > --- Wernher Von Braun > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now > http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ >
-- "The least important things in life get the most appreciation. The most important things in life don't seem to get enough."
-me
Proud "Trillian" user http://www.ceruleanstudios.com AIM screename: Ryften13 drizzt@sdf.lonestar.org (text-based email) schnerck@hotmail.com -or- peruvian@dreamtheater.zzn.com (HTML-based email) SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org Progressive Musician's Forum - http://www0.org/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.cgi#general
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 07:54:06 -0500 From: "D C" <Iluvatar@twcny.rr.com> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: LiTS - dreamtheater.mit.edu Message-ID: <BOEAJJBDNFPALMNMJONIEEFCCBAA.Iluvatar@twcny.rr.com>
Anybody have any idea when the media server will be back up - will it ever? It's been down for over a year.
-Dan.
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 08:26:09 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew Coutermarsh <andrew@cout.dhs.org> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: LiTS - dreamtheater.mit.edu Message-ID: <20021029082027.D89630-100000@samurai.ruin.org>
On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, D C wrote:
> Anybody have any idea when the media server will be back up - will it > ever? It's been down for over a year.
Hehe, you get the standard form reply I give everybody:
We've been looking for ways of getting a media server up and running ever since it first went down, but it's VERY difficult to find anybody who can give us the kind of bandwidth that we used for that media server (we transferred hundreds of gigabytes a month, at a very high upstream pipe), and what's more is that it was given to us free of charge. We'd be paying through the teeth to keep one up and running if we had to pay for it. So basically, we don't have the means to be able to run a server of that capacity and capability, and until we can FIND the means to run a server like that, it's going to stay down.
So basically, if anybody has the bandwidth to run a server that can support the equivalent of five T1s, without charging for it, let me or Bogie know. :)
------------------------------------------------- Andrew Coutermarsh - http://cout.dhs.org/ andrew@cout.dhs.org ------------------------------------------------- If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you. -------------------------------------------------
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 07:43:23 -0600 From: "Souter, Jan-Michael" <JSouter@healthaxis.com> To: "'ytsejam@torchsong.com'" <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: RE: LiTS - dreamtheater.mit.edu Message-ID: <3CEB2BD450223743A4895C0D0C5DFC3A019CEA27@haxlcsechp0.healthaxis.dom>
No chance with running an FTP site?
jm
-----Original Message----- From: Andrew Coutermarsh [mailto:andrew@cout.dhs.org]
On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, D C wrote:
> Anybody have any idea when the media server will be back up - will it > ever? It's been down for over a year.
So basically, if anybody has the bandwidth to run a server that can support the equivalent of five T1s, without charging for it, let me or Bogie know. :)
Andrew Coutermarsh - http://cout.dhs.org/
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:50:44 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew Coutermarsh <andrew@cout.dhs.org> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: RE: LiTS - dreamtheater.mit.edu Message-ID: <20021029094924.W90641-100000@samurai.ruin.org>
On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Souter, Jan-Michael wrote:
> No chance with running an FTP site?
And only allowing five or ten people at once the opportunity to download from it? It's not enough; there'd be a riot in the boot community. From the moment we put the media server up until the time it had to come down, we were completely full-up. That's a hundred users that were always downloading something. In comparison, if we were to put an FTP up that could only support ten or twenty users, it just plain wouldn't be enough.
------------------------------------------------- Andrew Coutermarsh - http://cout.dhs.org/ andrew@cout.dhs.org ------------------------------------------------- "Prayer has no place in school, just like facts have no place in religion." - Superintendant Chalmers from "The Simpsons" -------------------------------------------------
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 07:55:12 -0800 From: "Daniel Mikkola" <jcdrummer67@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: well porcupine tree is.... Message-ID: <F172VklxcqttPJI7nAE00008e57@hotmail.com>
<html><div style='background-color:'><P>To let a few of you know that do like porcupine tree, they are on tour right now. i just bought tix to go see them at The fillmore in SF. anyone else going? I like the fillmore, its a nice setting and relaxing to listen to music. does anyone know what im talking about? I bought the new album, In Absentia, and i think #4 is the best... "The sound of Muzak". for those that think that porcupine tree is too mellow, try listening to this track.</P> <P>Daniel</P></div><br clear=all><hr>Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. <a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMDEN/2023">Click Here</a> </html>
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 12:38:02 -0600 From: "Souter, Jan-Michael" <JSouter@healthaxis.com> To: "'ytsejam@torchsong.com'" <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: New Symphony X now available Message-ID: <3CEB2BD450223743A4895C0D0C5DFC3A019CEAF7@haxlcsechp0.healthaxis.dom>
Head on over to
and place your order for the new Symphony X CD. It's ready for shipping this week! Get your copy of the limited edition version. It has extra stuff.
JM
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 6358 ************************** === Contributions to ytsejam: ytsejam@torchsong.com === === Send requests to: ytsejam-request@torchsong.com === === Brought by the ghost of ytsejam@arastar.coms past === === Reach the owner of this list at: ytsejam-owner@torchsong.com ===
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