YTSEJAM Digest 6704
Today's Topics:
1) New album.
by Brian Hayden <bhayden@umn.edu>
2) Re: YTSEJAM digest 6703 - various
by "Simon Dodd" <simon@copperstream.co.uk>
3) Re: FII
by Mike Shetzer <echo26@videotron.ca>
4) New Bonus Material
by "Souter, Jan-Michael" <JSouter@healthaxis.com>
5) Seattle Prog/Power fest
by "Trevor Hoit" <trevorhoit@comcast.net>
6) RE: YTSEJAM digest 6702
by "Nafe, Tim" <Tim.Nafe@bestbuy.com>
7) Re: Seattle Prog/Power fest
by "Dr. Mosh" <drkhoe@zero.corp.publichost.com>
8) ToT commentary
by "Ilia" <painlessscream@yahoo.com>
9) RE: My impressions
by "Niall Connaughton" <ytsejam@bigpond.net.au>
10) Off Topic - Off the crackpipe, on the bagpipe
by "Philip J. Kaplan" <pk@pkinteractive.com>
11) Re: Off Topic - Off the crackpipe, on the bagpipe
by Mike Shetzer <echo26@videotron.ca>
12) RE: My impressions
by "Rob P" <ytsejam2002@hotmail.com>
13) RE: ToT again
by "Rob P" <ytsejam2002@hotmail.com>
14) Quick thoughts about ToT
by Alexis Ramos <alexis_ramos@yahoo.com>
15) Re: ToT criticism
by Antony Gelberg <antony@antgel.co.uk>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:12:18 -0600 (CST)
From: Brian Hayden <bhayden@umn.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: New album.
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.50.0311120800400.3769-100000@garnet.tc.umn.edu>
So a friend brought it over last night and I sat and listened closely and
quietly. My first impression was, thank god! It's not awful (as opposed to
my first and continuing impression of the last two albums, which was, wait
for it.... oh my god! It's awful!).
About halfway through Endless Sacrifice I turned to my friend and said,
"If they don't do anything stupid to screw it up, this could be their best
song since Trial of Tears."
Of course, they promptly entered into go-nowhere wankery. Sigh. It was
good while it lasted.
I agree with Andrew's thoughts on the songwriting. It's really, really
deteriorated. The middle instrumental passage on Met Pt 1, for example,
was, no question about it, silly and show-offy... but it *went somehwere*!
They seem incapable of doing that anymore.
Also, I'm curious if it's really true that Jordan is just playing what
he's told, because this album has done nothing to change my opinion that
he is the Yngwie of keyboard playing. All chops and no musicality. No guts
to do anything but put on a circus-sounding patch and play a scale. It's
just awful, really awful, and I cringe everytime he is in the forefront.
Literally. I physically cringe.
On the lyrics front, I agree with everyone saying that it'd be nice to
have more Myung-penned songs. I'm sorry, but Portnoy is a ham-fisted idiot
when it comes to words, and Petrucci can only avoid being trite if he's
being nonsensical.
All in all: I may, at some point, have an urge for some reason to buy this
album. When that happens I'll just lay back, put on Office of Strategic
Influence, and listen to some music that means something.
-Brian
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:44:18 -0000
From: "Simon Dodd" <simon@copperstream.co.uk>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 6703 - various
Message-ID: <000a01c3a92b$7524a6d0$06a9a8c0@network.griffin.net.uk>
> From: rob denni <drummerdream@yahoo.com>
> To: ytsejam <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
> Subject: Progessive Rock
>
> To the guy who likes Prog Rock, not Technical Metal,
> what was so progressive about FII anyway? That seems
> to throw your whole arguement out the window.
New Millennium, Peruvian Skies, Hells Kitchen, Lines In The Sand, Just Let
Me Breath and Trial of Tears, perhaps?
-------------------------------------------------------
> From: Andrew Coutermarsh <andrew@acvox.com>
> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
> Subject: My impressions
>
> My list of positives for the new album:
>
> * It is definitely heavier than any previous album, including Awake.
I would include that in the negative column;
> * As I Am, especially, is very catchy.
Ah...The main riff is catchy, I'll give them that. It was equally catchy
when they used it in TKH, too. ;)
> * What's that I hear? Oh my GOD, is it? It is! It's a bass guitar!
Word. It'll be cool to have him up in the mix. I'm not happy with his tone
these days (NOT a fan of using distortion on bass to any great extent - he
hit the nail on the head with "Learning to Live" and "Burning My Soul",
tone-wise. It's horses for courses, of course, but when you have a player
like JM, who plays very fierce basslines that are core to the song, you want
a tone that really cuts through the mix, rather than his more "round" tone
of late.
> * GET AN OUTSIDE PRODUCER. I cannot POSSIBLY stress this enough. They
> need somebody who's able to go, "Uh, guys... Don't do that." This person
> could also convince them that they don't need to do a huge meandering
> instrumental in EVERY SONG.
Absolutely correct. It happed to Tori Amos when she started producing her
own albums on her own. You're in a bunker mentality, locked away producing
YOUR songs on YOUR album, with little experience of
production...Tunnel-vision starts to set in, and perspective disappears. I
would suggest Steve Lukather, myself.
> * Let Myung start writing lyrics again
There was a recent post on Portnoy's forum about this. Portnoy apparently
(this is fucking funny, given who it's coming from) isn't happy with Myung's
lyrics, or the format they're presented in or somesuch.
----------------------------------------------------
> From: "Nathan J Wilhelm" <wilh0038@umn.edu>
> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
> Subject: Re: ToT
> Does anyone know why John Myung doesn't ever write any lyrics anymore? Or
> Jordan for that matter. It seems to have been monopolized by Mike and John
> Petrucci as of late (with James writing an occasional song here and
there).
Q.v. Portnoy or Myung's forum. Portnoy and JP want lyrics presented in a
specific format or not at all.
-------------------------------------------------
> From: "Rob P" <ytsejam2002@hotmail.com>
> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
> Subject: Re: My impressions
>
> The video pointed out clearly that unless Mike says so, Jordan can't play
> what he wants. This is the Petrucci and Portnoy show.
Sorry, which video?
~sjd
---YTSEJAM-FILTER: This message was posted using the YML command
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:11:46 -0500
From: Mike Shetzer <echo26@videotron.ca>
To: Ytsejam <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: FII
Message-ID: <001701c3a92f$4a2372a0$9b00a8c0@mizz>
I agree except for PS... i don't think that song was proggy at all. Catchy,
cool, heavy and awesome solo, yes... but not one their proggiest songs on
that album, that's for sure. Of course, compared to Anna Lee, even Hollow
Years is proggy ;)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Simon Dodd" <simon@copperstream.co.uk>
> To: "Multiple recipients of list" <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 9:33 AM
> Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 6703 - various
>
>
> > > From: rob denni <drummerdream@yahoo.com>
> > > To: ytsejam <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
> > > Subject: Progessive Rock
> > >
> > > To the guy who likes Prog Rock, not Technical Metal,
> > > what was so progressive about FII anyway? That seems
> > > to throw your whole arguement out the window.
> >
> > New Millennium, Peruvian Skies, Hells Kitchen, Lines In The Sand, Just
Let
> > Me Breath and Trial of Tears, perhaps?
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > > From: Andrew Coutermarsh <andrew@acvox.com>
> > > To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
> > > Subject: My impressions
> > >
> > > My list of positives for the new album:
> > >
> > > * It is definitely heavier than any previous album, including
Awake.
> >
> > I would include that in the negative column;
> >
> >
> > > * As I Am, especially, is very catchy.
> >
> > Ah...The main riff is catchy, I'll give them that. It was equally catchy
> > when they used it in TKH, too. ;)
> >
> >
> > > * What's that I hear? Oh my GOD, is it? It is! It's a bass guitar!
> >
> > Word. It'll be cool to have him up in the mix. I'm not happy with his
tone
> > these days (NOT a fan of using distortion on bass to any great extent -
he
> > hit the nail on the head with "Learning to Live" and "Burning My Soul",
> > tone-wise. It's horses for courses, of course, but when you have a
player
> > like JM, who plays very fierce basslines that are core to the song, you
> want
> > a tone that really cuts through the mix, rather than his more "round"
tone
> > of late.
> >
> >
> > > * GET AN OUTSIDE PRODUCER. I cannot POSSIBLY stress this enough.
> They
> > > need somebody who's able to go, "Uh, guys... Don't do that." This
person
> > > could also convince them that they don't need to do a huge meandering
> > > instrumental in EVERY SONG.
> >
> > Absolutely correct. It happed to Tori Amos when she started producing
her
> > own albums on her own. You're in a bunker mentality, locked away
producing
> > YOUR songs on YOUR album, with little experience of
> > production...Tunnel-vision starts to set in, and perspective disappears.
I
> > would suggest Steve Lukather, myself.
> >
> >
> > > * Let Myung start writing lyrics again
> >
> > There was a recent post on Portnoy's forum about this. Portnoy
apparently
> > (this is fucking funny, given who it's coming from) isn't happy with
> Myung's
> > lyrics, or the format they're presented in or somesuch.
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------
> > > From: "Nathan J Wilhelm" <wilh0038@umn.edu>
> > > To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
> > > Subject: Re: ToT
> >
> >
> > > Does anyone know why John Myung doesn't ever write any lyrics anymore?
> Or
> > > Jordan for that matter. It seems to have been monopolized by Mike and
> John
> > > Petrucci as of late (with James writing an occasional song here and
> > there).
> >
> > Q.v. Portnoy or Myung's forum. Portnoy and JP want lyrics presented in a
> > specific format or not at all.
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------
> > > From: "Rob P" <ytsejam2002@hotmail.com>
> > > To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
> > > Subject: Re: My impressions
> > >
> > > The video pointed out clearly that unless Mike says so, Jordan can't
> play
> > > what he wants. This is the Petrucci and Portnoy show.
> >
> > Sorry, which video?
> >
> > ~sjd
> >
> >
> >
> > ---YTSEJAM-FILTER: This message was posted using the YML command
> >
>
>
>
---YTSEJAM-FILTER: This message was posted using the YML command
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:17:12 -0600
From: "Souter, Jan-Michael" <JSouter@healthaxis.com>
To: "'ytsejam@torchsong.com'" <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: New Bonus Material
Message-ID: <4642CF49B0BEB44386CA20BD34DC243801C8F18F@hhpech01.healthaxis.dom>
When you BUY the DT CD, it will unlock some bonus material at the Dream
Theater web site for you. There are two videos which give great insight
into their recording process and footage from inside the studio as they were
rehearsing and recording.
Would be a bummer for you to miss out on that bonus stuff. Watched them
last night at home.
JM
-----Original Message-----
From: Simon Dodd [mailto:simon@copperstream.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 8:34 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list
-------------------------------------------------
> From: "Rob P" <ytsejam2002@hotmail.com>
> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
> Subject: Re: My impressions
>
> The video pointed out clearly that unless Mike says so, Jordan can't play
> what he wants. This is the Petrucci and Portnoy show.
Sorry, which video?
~sjd
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:19:55 -0800
From: "Trevor Hoit" <trevorhoit@comcast.net>
To: "Ytsejam" <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Seattle Prog/Power fest
Message-ID: <004f01c3a938$d022a520$f7a2eb0c@attbi.com>
Hey guys, is anyone else going to this? I have only heard of two of the
bands(HEIR APPARENT-early QRish, big in Europe and CHIAROSCURO-kinda DT
meets NIN.)
Anyway, no foreign or national touring acts, but I'm gonna check it.
Someday I'll get to the real PP fest.
Trevor
SATURDAY NOVEMBER 15th 5pm
TRIPLE S PRODUCTIONS PRESENTS:
Seattle PowerProg Fest
HEIR APPARENT
TREMORCORDIS
LYRANTHE
BYAXIS
CHIAROSCURO
EIGHT FOLD PATH
SLAVE MASON
SUBJECT 2 CHANGE
Studio 7 - Seattle
110 S. Horton
Seattle, WA 98134
Contact: Tracy or Nicole. seven_ent@msn.com 206-286-1312
(corner of Horton & Occidental, one block north of Spokane off 1st S.)
All Shows are All Ages/Bar With ID! http://www.studioseven.us
I believe the ticket price is $12.
---YTSEJAM FILTER: Rest of message skipped because of attachment
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:55:04 -0600
From: "Nafe, Tim" <Tim.Nafe@bestbuy.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: RE: YTSEJAM digest 6702
Message-ID: <20512CA190699D4DB09D860EBF474C2F74554B@ds66mail.na.bestbuy.com>
I usually read rather than post but something bugs me about how some
people are just ripping apart ToT. How can you accurately judge
something on one or two listens? When I was first introduced to APSoG
from Fates Warning, it took me at least 7 or 8 listens before I really
started enjoying it. Now they are one of my favorite bands. I have
listened to ToT twice now and am not willing to give my complete
opinion, other than In the Name of God ROCKS!!
The people who are now ripping DT on ToT because they went in a
different direction, would probably still rip the band if they went back
and sounded the same as the I&W days. The fact of the matter is all
bands grow musically and experiment with different sounds. I for one am
thankful DT does try different things. I think the same sound CD after
CD would be stale and boring. I am a huge Dream Theater fan no matter
what music or direction they choose.
Tim
---YTSEJAM-FILTER: This message was posted using the YML command
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:37:32 -0800
From: "Dr. Mosh" <drkhoe@zero.corp.publichost.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: Seattle Prog/Power fest
Message-ID: <20031112173732.GA507@zero>
0. Trevor Hoit <trevorhoit@comcast.net> farted:
>
>
> Hey guys, is anyone else going to this? I have only heard of two of the
> bands(HEIR APPARENT-early QRish, big in Europe and CHIAROSCURO-kinda DT
> meets NIN.)
> Anyway, no foreign or national touring acts, but I'm gonna check it.
> Someday I'll get to the real PP fest.
> Trevor
>
> SATURDAY NOVEMBER 15th 5pm
> TRIPLE S PRODUCTIONS PRESENTS:
> Seattle PowerProg Fest
>
> HEIR APPARENT
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Whoa!! I wonder how many can claim they have that album?
hehe
-- -------------- http://www.zeromemory.com - metal for your ears.------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:12:00 -0500 From: "Ilia" <painlessscream@yahoo.com> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: ToT commentary Message-ID: <00da01c3a950$da16a1e0$6a01a8c0@covad.net>
First, a few responses:
[quote] > Damn straight, Myung is EXTREMELY audible on this album and I'm damn happy > to hear it :) [/quote]
That's probably not out of the ordinary - on other records, he's been audible in sections where there were little or no other instruments (usually) - leads me to believe that's intentional. This record, being considerably heavier, has a vibe that requires a solid low end. Myung is not a very trebly bass player, so at times even when you hear him you don't realize it.
[quote] > I just watched the 8 minute "writing the album" shtick, they wrote this in 3 > weeks?!!! damn... [/quote]
Not surprising, especially after listening to the album itself. It seems very spontaneous in many ways.
[quote] > Only first-impression disappointment is the lack of insanity in the instrumental. [/quote]
Yeah, considering how insane the song map is, I was expecting a lot more from it. It starts to make more sense once the overall theme of the album grows on you.
[quote] > I was just wondering what people thought about the melodies on this CD? What's been > lacking for me on recent DT CDs (with some notable exceptions) are really good, > interesting vocal melodies (and the instrumental melodies to back them up). Any > thoughts? [/quote]
Most of the main melodies are very Tool-inspired, I would say. There are OK sections, there are others that start to get boring not too far into them. Nothing really changed from previous albums, in terms of creativity - only the sound is now different.
[quote] > What? Not enough Progressive? I dare you to try counting time signatures and say > this CD is not Progressive. lol Every element is there. :) [/quote]
Hmm... time signatures define 'progressive'? I always thought time signatures are a by-product of conceptual complexity. If you play Take 5 in 4/4, is that progressive too? ;) Same line of reasoning applied to technical solos and (poly)rhythm parts - they are necessary because the underlying concept demands it, not because the audience demands it. Just because it sounds progressive, doesn't necessarily mean that it is.
Also, I thought I'd comment on this because everyone else probably will sooner or later: the 'rap'. I have nothing against the 'rap'. I think it fits the songs fine where it is. I don't think it sounds like L.P. or anything of that sort. But... for christ's sake, could they write some better rap? Something rhythmically engaging, like the melody lines. I'm hard-pressed to even call it 'rap' - it's more like shouting. Same general comment applies to many of the solos - for the most part they start on 1 or 4, and begin/end with a I or a V. And, honestly, the progressions for the solos could use some motion - even if Petrucci can sweep Aaug7 arpeggios up and down at the speed of light.
Lyrics - lousy. I miss Kevin's lyrics. As hard as this is for me to say, Mike Portnoy should stay away from Neil Morse.
But overall, this is a strong release. There's more on this one that I see myself going back to listen to in a few years, than there was on 6DoiT.
Ilia
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:48:46 +1100 From: "Niall Connaughton" <ytsejam@bigpond.net.au> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: RE: My impressions Message-ID: <OPEJJAPFDGDMCLAHLLIMKEOJDBAA.ytsejam@bigpond.net.au>
Steve Wilson? Dear god no :P Porcupine Tree is good and all, and the albums he has worked with Opeth on are good, but it's clear he changes the band's style a *lot*. I don't want Dream Theater to put out a Damnation or songs like Gravity Eyelids. When I want to listen to Porcupine Tree, I'll listen to them, when I want Opeth, I want Opeth. And I think it would be bad to have Porcupine Theater :P
All my humble opinion, of course of course :P
Niall
> -----Original Message----- > From: ytsejam@torchsong.com [mailto:ytsejam@torchsong.com]On Behalf Of > Rob P > Sent: Wednesday, 12 November 2003 11:28 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: My impressions > > > I agree with ALL of Andrew's points. He sums everything I've > been thinking > perfectly. The outside producer would help and I nominate Steven > Wilson who > would not allow the borrowed notes and would keep them focused. There is
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:49:22 -0500 From: "Philip J. Kaplan" <pk@pkinteractive.com> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Off Topic - Off the crackpipe, on the bagpipe Message-ID: <003301c3a96f$37e14500$6a01a8c0@Buck>
charset="us-ascii"
Hi Everyone,
Thought most of you would appreciate this video:
http://www.johnnybagpipes.com/video.kidz.html
Prize goes to the first person who can name what song he's playing at the beginning... Hint: it's part of the guitar solo from one of the best metal songs ever.
- Pud
PS- I think ToT is great. Not as great as SFaM, but about equal to 6doit. ...because no post today would be complete without a ToT opinion :)
---
philip j. kaplan : pk interactive nyc
: vox 212.924.2333
: fax 212.924.2022
: author "f'd <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/books/0743228626/r eviews/ref=nosim/fc-20/> companies" simon & schuster
---YTSEJAM FILTER: Rest of message skipped because of attachment
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 18:28:23 -0500 From: Mike Shetzer <echo26@videotron.ca> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Off Topic - Off the crackpipe, on the bagpipe Message-ID: <007d01c3a974$aa88d320$9b00a8c0@mizz>
LOL... I was hoping for some A aug 7th bagpipe arpeggios!
----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip J. Kaplan" <pk@pkinteractive.com> To: "Multiple recipients of list" <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 5:38 PM Subject: Off Topic - Off the crackpipe, on the bagpipe
> > charset="us-ascii" > > Hi Everyone, > > > > Thought most of you would appreciate this video: > > http://www.johnnybagpipes.com/video.kidz.html > > > > Prize goes to the first person who can name what song he's playing at > the beginning... Hint: it's part of the guitar solo from one of the best > metal songs ever. > > > > - Pud > > > > PS- I think ToT is great. Not as great as SFaM, but about equal to > 6doit. ...because no post today would be complete without a ToT > opinion :) > > > > --- > > philip j. kaplan : pk interactive nyc > > : http://www.pud.com/ > > : vox 212.924.2333 > > : fax 212.924.2022 > > : author "f'd > <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/books/0743228626/r > eviews/ref=nosim/fc-20/> companies" simon & schuster > > > > > ---YTSEJAM FILTER: Rest of message skipped because of attachment >
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:33:59 -0500 From: "Rob P" <ytsejam2002@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: RE: My impressions Message-ID: <Law15-F68OPlEPPKquZ00001101@hotmail.com>
Yeah god forbid Dream Theater put out something amazing like Damnation. Sorry that has MELODY. The only songs that hold up melodically to that are the last 2 tracks on ToT and one is the instrumental. DT need direction, if it's not SW that's cool. Just get SOMEONE in there to organize these ideas.
>From: "Niall Connaughton" <ytsejam@bigpond.net.au> >Reply-To: ytsejam@torchsong.com >To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com> >Subject: RE: My impressions >Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:38:03 -0800 (PST) > >Steve Wilson? Dear god no :P Porcupine Tree is good and all, and the albums >he has worked with Opeth on are good, but it's clear he changes the band's >style a *lot*. I don't want Dream Theater to put out a Damnation or songs >like Gravity Eyelids. When I want to listen to Porcupine Tree, I'll listen >to them, when I want Opeth, I want Opeth. And I think it would be bad to >have Porcupine Theater :P > >All my humble opinion, of course of course :P > >Niall > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ytsejam@torchsong.com [mailto:ytsejam@torchsong.com]On Behalf Of > > Rob P > > Sent: Wednesday, 12 November 2003 11:28 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list > > Subject: Re: My impressions > > > > > > I agree with ALL of Andrew's points. He sums everything I've > > been thinking > > perfectly. The outside producer would help and I nominate Steven > > Wilson who > > would not allow the borrowed notes and would keep them focused. There is >
_________________________________________________________________ MSN Messenger with backgrounds, emoticons and more. http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/cdp_customize
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:42:56 -0500 From: "Rob P" <ytsejam2002@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: RE: ToT again Message-ID: <Law15-F367mNEYnkZvL000011aa@hotmail.com>
Tim, I don't mind trying different things. Trust me there! The problem is that most of these songs aren't that good when you compare them to the rest of DT's catalog. Why is that? Lack of direction? Too much chaos? I really don't know. I've listened to this album over and over and over. And the same parts suck. There are moments in some of the songs that should have been developed and others that should have been cut.
I too am a huge Dream Theater fan...that's why I am so friggin upset with this album! I think I can speak for those that are disappointed when I say that. If you love it, cool. Have fun with it. I am going to set it aside. Maybe I'll come back to it, maybe not. I do know that I do NOT want to hear much of this album live, so that sucks too. And I am sure they'll do "Glass Prison/This Dying Song (sic)".
And to think I passed up buying Triumph the Insult Comic Dog's "come poop with me" CD!
>From: "Nafe, Tim" <Tim.Nafe@bestbuy.com> >Reply-To: ytsejam@torchsong.com >To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com> >Subject: RE: YTSEJAM digest 6702 >Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:05:29 -0800 (PST) > >I usually read rather than post but something bugs me about how some >people are just ripping apart ToT. How can you accurately judge >something on one or two listens? When I was first introduced to APSoG >from Fates Warning, it took me at least 7 or 8 listens before I really >started enjoying it. Now they are one of my favorite bands. I have >listened to ToT twice now and am not willing to give my complete >opinion, other than In the Name of God ROCKS!! > >The people who are now ripping DT on ToT because they went in a >different direction, would probably still rip the band if they went back >and sounded the same as the I&W days. The fact of the matter is all >bands grow musically and experiment with different sounds. I for one am >thankful DT does try different things. I think the same sound CD after >CD would be stale and boring. I am a huge Dream Theater fan no matter >what music or direction they choose. > >Tim > > > > > > > > >---YTSEJAM-FILTER: This message was posted using the YML command
_________________________________________________________________ Great deals on high-speed Internet access as low as $26.95. https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:49:13 -0800 (PST) From: Alexis Ramos <alexis_ramos@yahoo.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Quick thoughts about ToT Message-ID: <20031113014913.54455.qmail@web10508.mail.yahoo.com>
By the way, I'm not going to talk about Trial of Tears. I think we need a way to differentiate the latest album and that song when we refer to them, because they're both abbreviated ToT. Any suggestions?
All right, my quick thoughts about the album. I've listened to it about 7-8 times, I think, and I like it a lot so far. Another very solid DT release. Favorite songs so far are Honor Thy Father, SoC and In the Name of God. This album is definitely heavier than anything else they've ever done (all of the songs are heavy, except for Vacant and maybe SoC), which for me isn't a bad thing. Petrucci needs to calm his fingers down a bit and write some more melodic solos next time, because most of his solos in this album are almost pure shred. And I would have liked to hear James singing some more higher notes. But those are minor things that don't mess up the album at all for me. I'm glad they managed, once again, to release an album that doesn't sound like anything else they've done before.
One last thing. I think it's ridiculous that people are now starting to say that DT needs an outside producer, after all the praise they got when they decided to dump Shirley as a producer and do the job themselves. At that time, nobody ever said a good thing about what Shirley did as a producer. Please make up your minds.
And how can you say that DT is now the Petrucci and Portnoy show? Do you have any evidence of this, or is it just mere speculation? Once again, I think this is a ridiculous conclusion because there's no way to know everybody's contribution level unless you were present when they were writing the freakin album.
Alexis
P.S. I think the combination of Vacant and SoC goes along the same lines as Fates Warning's "At Fates Hands", with a laid back intro with vocals followed by an awesome instrumental.
__________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 02:20:09 +0000 From: Antony Gelberg <antony@antgel.co.uk> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: ToT criticism Message-ID: <20031113022009.GC24592@brain.pulsesol.com>
On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 09:05:29AM -0800, Nafe, Tim wrote: > I usually read rather than post but something bugs me about how some > people are just ripping apart ToT. How can you accurately judge > something on one or two listens? When I was first introduced to APSoG > from Fates Warning, it took me at least 7 or 8 listens before I really > started enjoying it. Now they are one of my favorite bands. I have > listened to ToT twice now and am not willing to give my complete > opinion, other than In the Name of God ROCKS!! > > The people who are now ripping DT on ToT because they went in a > different direction, would probably still rip the band if they went back > and sounded the same as the I&W days. The fact of the matter is all > bands grow musically and experiment with different sounds. I for one am > thankful DT does try different things. I think the same sound CD after > CD would be stale and boring. I am a huge Dream Theater fan no matter > what music or direction they choose. > > Tim
I haven't got the new CD yet (thanks play.com), but I agree with lots of the above, regardless if the only thing on the CD is a communal band fart. Any decent music takes a lot of listens to appreciate. I can't believe the way some people whinge about DT's direction - what do they owe you? Fuck all, that's what. If you want another I&W, then go and listen to I&W. Underwater.
I think a lot of people have been spoilt by the quality of music that DT have produced over the years. In a similar vein, I think a lot of people are deluded, and believe that being a fan of a genius band brings them into some kind of "genius fan" zone, and gives them the right to talk out of their arse.
Not that you don't have the right to criticise, but give it some thought first, and try to listen to more than 5 seconds of the first song.
T
PS If you can't hear the bass on any DT albums before this one, get a decent stereo. -- Now playing: SOUNDGARDEN - Slaves & Bulldozers
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 6704 ************************** === Contributions to ytsejam: ytsejam@torchsong.com === === Send requests to: ytsejam-request@torchsong.com === === More information at: http://www.dreamt.org/local/ytsejam.php === === Brought by the ghost of ytsejam@arastar.coms past === === Reach the owner of this list at: ytsejam-owner@torchsong.com ===
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Thu Apr 01 2004 - 19:14:42 EST