YTSEJAM Digest 6709
Today's Topics:
1) Re: They had big shoes to fill.
by Brian Hayden <bhayden@umn.edu>
2) Re: They had big shoes to fill.
by "Nathan J Wilhelm" <wilh0038@umn.edu>
3) RE: They had big shoes to fill
by "Simon Dodd" <simon@copperstream.co.uk>
4) BugBear virus
by "Dan Costello" <iluvatar@rochester.rr.com>
5) RE: YTSEJAM digest 6705
by Bob Rodrigues <brodrigues@aafcpa.com>
6) MP
by "Trevor Hoit" <trevorhoit@comcast.net>
7) Re: MP
by Mike Shetzer <echo26@videotron.ca>
8) Re: YTSEJAM digest 6705
by Mike Shetzer <echo26@videotron.ca>
9) Re: They had big shoes to fill.
by "Rob P" <ytsejam2002@hotmail.com>
10) Re: MP
by "Rob P" <ytsejam2002@hotmail.com>
11) RE: my new friend Bob
by "Rob P" <ytsejam2002@hotmail.com>
12)
by "Benji Robson" <benjirobson@hotmail.com>
13) Re: your mail
by "Dr. Mosh" <drkhoe@zero.corp.publichost.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 20:01:54 -0600 (CST)
From: Brian Hayden <bhayden@umn.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: They had big shoes to fill.
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.50.0311161952200.11642-100000@garnet.tc.umn.edu>
> Please read the post I was replying to. I refuse to get involved in
> nit-picking.
See, it's not nit-picking, is the thing. You made a claim that isn't
supported by anything that he said. It's substance, not semantics.
> That's the thing - I don't like most prog-metal wankery. I consider DT
> to have a lot more class than that, and I don't think they are trying to
> prove anything.
Of course none of us know what the intentions or motivations are... but it
seems to me that the songwriting has seriously deteriorated over the years
in the pursuit of, as Portnoy loves to say, "balls 'n' chunk'; coupled
with their ongoing desire (as stated by Portnoy, in particular, in at
least half the interviews he gives) to throw in the crazy instrumental
parts to "keep the fans happy".
I can't help but think they've spent the better part of the last decade
trying to ape not only their favorite bands but also their own two
breakthrough albums--without realizing that what made people love those
albums was that they seemed *fresh*, and while the jaw-dropping
performances (I&W) and the "balls n chunk" (Awake) were part of that, a
bigger part was that they were simply filled with *good, original songs*.
I dunno. My impression....
-brian
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 21:19:00 -0600
From: "Nathan J Wilhelm" <wilh0038@umn.edu>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: They had big shoes to fill.
Message-ID: <001101c3acb9$a4435830$0d00a8c0@nathan>
> I commend those folks like me who aren't
> willing to blindly follow (here come the flames).
>
> Rob
So you're saying that anyone who likes TOT is just blindly following? Can't
someone genuinely like this album? People do have differing opinions
afterall. Hell... some people think Britney Spears is a good singer. No one
has any right to tell them that they're wrong. It's only an opinion.
Nate
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:55:56 -0000
From: "Simon Dodd" <simon@copperstream.co.uk>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: RE: They had big shoes to fill
Message-ID: <000401c3acf0$ff087a20$06a9a8c0@network.griffin.net.uk>
> From: Brian Hayden <bhayden@umn.edu>
> Subject: RE: They had big shoes to fill.
>
> > I'm curious to know where you got this from? I hadn't heard anything
like
> > that.
>
> Most of the interviews with Moore/Matheos/Portnoy after the release of the
> album talk about this, with varying degrees in teh characterization of
> Mike's attitude. It's often but not always tempered with something like
> "but in the end I think he was glad that he tried something new." Or some
> such. One sample (K is Kevin, J is Jim):
> This one features Mike sounding pretty grumpy behind the PR-speak:
>
> http://electricbasement.com/interview_osi_march2003.htm
That's an interesting interview - I was particularly amused by this snippet:
<<
What can't you do - musically - in Dream Theater, or, in Kevin and Jim's
case - Chroma Key and Fates Warning - that you can in O.S.I.?
The stuff we do with O.S.I. is more soundscapish. Of course, I'm playing
drums, but the focus isn't on musicianship; it's on composition and sounds
and coming up with real original-sounding soundscapes. At the same time,
trying to make something melodic and lyrically interesting, as well. For me,
this style would never work in Dream Theater. [Playing with Dream Theater]
is more about playing, more traditional.
>>
Unintentionally amusing, I suspect, in light of TOT.
---YTSEJAM-FILTER: This message was posted using the YML command
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:58:01 -0500
From: "Dan Costello" <iluvatar@rochester.rr.com>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: BugBear virus
Message-ID: <BOEAJJBDNFPALMNMJONIOEAJCGAA.iluvatar@rochester.rr.com>
Hey guys, somebody on the jam is sending out e-mails laden w/ the bugbear
virus.
-Dan.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:40:32 -0500
From: Bob Rodrigues <brodrigues@aafcpa.com>
To: "'ytsejam@torchsong.com'" <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: RE: YTSEJAM digest 6705
Message-ID: <9FBFE5BA963E194A8970E8A678F295290416CB@mars.endeavour_exch>
First post ever here...
You guys have some strong opinions. It sounds like you don't like the album
because it isn't exactly the way you want it to be. Well deal with it, its
not your album. Dream Theater did what they wanted to do and they did an
awesome job as always. I'm gonna get right to the point with this cause I'm
sick of hearing the bitching on this mailing list. I joined it because I'm a
fan and wanted to talk good stuff with other fans, but instead I'll say my
part and withdraw. I'm 21, I've been listening to DT since my freshman year
of high school and I have practically every album with the exception of a
few live CDs. I will buy any new material DT puts out because they are my
favorite musical group and they amaze me everytime, even if it takes a few
listens before I really love it. And you can call me a "sheep" all you want
but that's bullshit because there's no band-wagon to follow here. No one I
know likes DT, so I'm the outcast. I don't like this shit to be cool, I like
it because it is cool. Who cares if they changed their sound a bit, its
still a great sound and they're better musicians than %90 of the fools here
who have a bad opinion of them. This band will hold its value for all time
because they know how to mix it up and not sound exactly the same everytime.
I'm not saying this is my favorite DT albums, but you old fogies need to
open up your minds and learn how to accept some change. Stop critiquing
everything and enjoy the beautiful music, you bastards act like they're as
bad as 50 Cent or something. Flame me all you want, your opinions mean shit
to me.
I'll be looking for the real fan lists now thank you. Over and out.
"Don't Cross the Crooked Step!"
---YTSEJAM-FILTER: This message was posted using the YML command
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:17:57 -0800
From: "Trevor Hoit" <trevorhoit@comcast.net>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: MP
Message-ID: <001901c3ad37$2078cca0$f7a2eb0c@attbi.com>
>(Portnoy sounded
>downright pissed about this whole process, which says plenty about him.
>Apparently he can't swallow his ego long enough to take suggestion and
>criticism when he's playing on *someone else's record*.)
Well call him confident or cocky.......
In the notes for Neal Morse's "Testify", Neal says MP paid him $50 to
keep
a fill in that Neal asked him to lose.........so they kept it and Neal
likes it now.
---YTSEJAM FILTER: Rest of message skipped because of attachment
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:41:36 -0500
From: Mike Shetzer <echo26@videotron.ca>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: MP
Message-ID: <004001c3ad5b$f53a3e50$9b00a8c0@mizz>
--Boundary_(ID_F/D0jgu4qIiRigsNtZjwZw)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Ok, what fill is this and on what song? I gotta hear the 50$ one! :)
----- Original Message -----
From: Trevor Hoit
To: Multiple recipients of list
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 1:35 PM
Subject: MP
>(Portnoy sounded
>downright pissed about this whole process, which says plenty about him.
>Apparently he can't swallow his ego long enough to take suggestion and
>criticism when he's playing on *someone else's record*.)
Well call him confident or cocky.......
In the notes for Neal Morse's "Testify", Neal says MP paid him $50 to
keep
a fill in that Neal asked him to lose.........so they kept it and Neal
likes it now.
---YTSEJAM FILTER: Rest of message skipped because of attachment
--Boundary_(ID_F/D0jgu4qIiRigsNtZjwZw)
---YTSEJAM FILTER: Rest of message skipped because of attachment
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:45:38 -0500
From: Mike Shetzer <echo26@videotron.ca>
To: Ytsejam <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 6705
Message-ID: <005f01c3ad5c$854da2c0$9b00a8c0@mizz>
--Boundary_(ID_mFtHnfM9wC+q5fivrnYUdQ)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Hey Bob, welcome aboard. Granted, yes, everyone's got their opinions, but we're a tight bunch filled with sarcasm-a-plenty once you get to know us. At least there are posts now, during the year it's like me and 5 other people who post regularly :)
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Rodrigues
To: Multiple recipients of list
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: YTSEJAM digest 6705
First post ever here...
You guys have some strong opinions. It sounds like you don't like the album
because it isn't exactly the way you want it to be. Well deal with it, its
not your album. Dream Theater did what they wanted to do and they did an
awesome job as always. I'm gonna get right to the point with this cause I'm
sick of hearing the bitching on this mailing list. I joined it because I'm a
fan and wanted to talk good stuff with other fans, but instead I'll say my
part and withdraw. I'm 21, I've been listening to DT since my freshman year
of high school and I have practically every album with the exception of a
few live CDs. I will buy any new material DT puts out because they are my
favorite musical group and they amaze me everytime, even if it takes a few
listens before I really love it. And you can call me a "sheep" all you want
but that's bullshit because there's no band-wagon to follow here. No one I
know likes DT, so I'm the outcast. I don't like this shit to be cool, I like
it because it is cool. Who cares if they changed their sound a bit, its
still a great sound and they're better musicians than %90 of the fools here
who have a bad opinion of them. This band will hold its value for all time
because they know how to mix it up and not sound exactly the same everytime.
I'm not saying this is my favorite DT albums, but you old fogies need to
open up your minds and learn how to accept some change. Stop critiquing
everything and enjoy the beautiful music, you bastards act like they're as
bad as 50 Cent or something. Flame me all you want, your opinions mean shit
to me.
I'll be looking for the real fan lists now thank you. Over and out.
"Don't Cross the Crooked Step!"
--Boundary_(ID_mFtHnfM9wC+q5fivrnYUdQ)
---YTSEJAM FILTER: Rest of message skipped because of attachment
---YTSEJAM-FILTER: This message was posted using the YML command
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:32:56 -0500
From: "Rob P" <ytsejam2002@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: They had big shoes to fill.
Message-ID: <Law15-F54CYgxuWjySu00015bdc@hotmail.com>
Well that started a war. But Brian sees my point. The song is the thing.
You always need to SERVE the song and not yourself or anyone else. This
album moves away from serving the song. I am all for long songs and cool
multiple part songs. A Change Of Seasons was and is a good song. You never
once realize it been 23 minutes. My Dying Soul? I am sure that could be
half as long and TWICE as good in the process. There are parts in there
that should have been developed...rather than steam rolled. And yeah, I do
think fans of bands tend to be more "forgiving" as a whole which is what I
meant by my blindling following comment.
Again, thanks to Brian.
>From: Brian Hayden <bhayden@umn.edu>
>Reply-To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
>To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
>Subject: Re: They had big shoes to fill.
>Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 18:13:34 -0800 (PST)
>
> > Please read the post I was replying to. I refuse to get involved in
> > nit-picking.
>
>See, it's not nit-picking, is the thing. You made a claim that isn't
>supported by anything that he said. It's substance, not semantics.
>
> > That's the thing - I don't like most prog-metal wankery. I consider DT
> > to have a lot more class than that, and I don't think they are trying to
> > prove anything.
>
>Of course none of us know what the intentions or motivations are... but it
>seems to me that the songwriting has seriously deteriorated over the years
>in the pursuit of, as Portnoy loves to say, "balls 'n' chunk'; coupled
>with their ongoing desire (as stated by Portnoy, in particular, in at
>least half the interviews he gives) to throw in the crazy instrumental
>parts to "keep the fans happy".
>
>I can't help but think they've spent the better part of the last decade
>trying to ape not only their favorite bands but also their own two
>breakthrough albums--without realizing that what made people love those
>albums was that they seemed *fresh*, and while the jaw-dropping
>performances (I&W) and the "balls n chunk" (Awake) were part of that, a
>bigger part was that they were simply filled with *good, original songs*.
>
>I dunno. My impression....
>
>-brian
_________________________________________________________________
Compare high-speed Internet plans, starting at $26.95.
https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:34:51 -0500
From: "Rob P" <ytsejam2002@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: MP
Message-ID: <Law15-F13IsziNWlsbT00015dd1@hotmail.com>
I listened to that fill and I don't know why Mike had to even pay for
it...it's not a big deal from the sound of the fill. Should I mention that
Neal's album disappoints me too or will I get killed for that? Sounds too
typical while the new SB has great songs throughout. <ducking>
>From: Mike Shetzer <echo26@videotron.ca>
>Reply-To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
>To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
>Subject: Re: MP
>Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:37:14 -0800 (PST)
>
>--Boundary_(ID_F/D0jgu4qIiRigsNtZjwZw)
>Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
>
>Ok, what fill is this and on what song? I gotta hear the 50$ one! :)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Trevor Hoit
> To: Multiple recipients of list
> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 1:35 PM
> Subject: MP
>
>
>
>
> >(Portnoy sounded
> >downright pissed about this whole process, which says plenty about him.
> >Apparently he can't swallow his ego long enough to take suggestion and
> >criticism when he's playing on *someone else's record*.)
> Well call him confident or cocky.......
> In the notes for Neal Morse's "Testify", Neal says MP paid him $50 to
> keep
> a fill in that Neal asked him to lose.........so they kept it and Neal
> likes it now.
> ---YTSEJAM FILTER: Rest of message skipped because of attachment
>
>--Boundary_(ID_F/D0jgu4qIiRigsNtZjwZw)
>---YTSEJAM FILTER: Rest of message skipped because of attachment
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Messenger with backgrounds, emoticons and more.
http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/cdp_customize
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:37:58 -0500
From: "Rob P" <ytsejam2002@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: RE: my new friend Bob
Message-ID: <Law15-F90q33Z4WN7Vs00015e17@hotmail.com>
Hey Bob...lighten up. I dont like it and guess what...that's okay! Ah the
real fanlist, love the insults. Terribly creative.
Signed your old buddy,
whats my name
>From: Bob Rodrigues <brodrigues@aafcpa.com>
>Reply-To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
>To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
>Subject: RE: YTSEJAM digest 6705
>Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:04:54 -0800 (PST)
>
>First post ever here...
>
>You guys have some strong opinions. It sounds like you don't like the album
>because it isn't exactly the way you want it to be. Well deal with it, its
>not your album. Dream Theater did what they wanted to do and they did an
>awesome job as always. I'm gonna get right to the point with this cause I'm
>sick of hearing the bitching on this mailing list. I joined it because I'm
>a
>fan and wanted to talk good stuff with other fans, but instead I'll say my
>part and withdraw. I'm 21, I've been listening to DT since my freshman year
>of high school and I have practically every album with the exception of a
>few live CDs. I will buy any new material DT puts out because they are my
>favorite musical group and they amaze me everytime, even if it takes a few
>listens before I really love it. And you can call me a "sheep" all you want
>but that's bullshit because there's no band-wagon to follow here. No one I
>know likes DT, so I'm the outcast. I don't like this shit to be cool, I
>like
>it because it is cool. Who cares if they changed their sound a bit, its
>still a great sound and they're better musicians than %90 of the fools here
>who have a bad opinion of them. This band will hold its value for all time
>because they know how to mix it up and not sound exactly the same
>everytime.
>I'm not saying this is my favorite DT albums, but you old fogies need to
>open up your minds and learn how to accept some change. Stop critiquing
>everything and enjoy the beautiful music, you bastards act like they're as
>bad as 50 Cent or something. Flame me all you want, your opinions mean shit
>to me.
>
>I'll be looking for the real fan lists now thank you. Over and out.
>
>"Don't Cross the Crooked Step!"
>
>---YTSEJAM-FILTER: This message was posted using the YML command
_________________________________________________________________
From Beethoven to the Rolling Stones, your favorite music is always playing
on MSN Radio Plus. No ads, no talk. Trial month FREE!
http://join.msn.com/?page=offers/premiumradio
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:07:44 +1000
From: "Benji Robson" <benjirobson@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Message-ID: <LAW11-F40bhDzZ3G0EE00015482@hotmail.com>
can u unsubscribe me please
_________________________________________________________________
Hot chart ringtones and polyphonics. Go to
http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilemania/default.asp
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:44:42 -0800
From: "Dr. Mosh" <drkhoe@zero.corp.publichost.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: your mail
Message-ID: <20031118014442.GA14329@zero>
0. Benji Robson <benjirobson@hotmail.com> farted:
> can u unsubscribe me please
NO!!!
READ MORE YTSEJAM!! IT'S GOOD FOR YOU!
-- -------------- http://www.zeromemory.com - metal for your ears.------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 6709 ************************** === Contributions to ytsejam: ytsejam@torchsong.com === === Send requests to: ytsejam-request@torchsong.com === === More information at: http://www.dreamt.org/local/ytsejam.php === === Brought by the ghost of ytsejam@arastar.coms past === === Reach the owner of this list at: ytsejam-owner@torchsong.com ===
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Thu Apr 01 2004 - 19:14:42 EST