YTSEJAM Digest 6710
Today's Topics:
1) Mike doesn't have an ego
by Snarncymbl@aol.com
2) old fogies :)
by Michael & Pamela Nazer <mnazer@pressenter.com>
3) RE: YTSEJAM digest 6705
by Snarncymbl@aol.com
4) re: recent topics
by "Ilia" <painlessscream@yahoo.com>
5) Ali and His Gang vs. Mr. Tooth Decay
by WB Henderson <LycanthropicEye@comcast.net>
6) re: opinions and FII commentary
by "Ilia" <painlessscream@yahoo.com>
7) Re: old fogies :)
by "Kez" <bkeyser@cox.net>
8) Re: old fogies :)
by "Kez" <bkeyser@cox.net>
9) Re: old fogies :)
by Coldfire <coldie@bellatlantic.net>
10) re: opinions and FII commentary
by WB Henderson <LycanthropicEye@comcast.net>
11) Re: Warning: No opinions allowed
by DTimagesandwords@aol.com
12) Subscribe
by "Gary Walmsley" <Gary.Walmsley@fcslasermail.co.uk>
13) Re: old fogies :)
by Coldfire <coldie@bellatlantic.net>
14) RE: MP
by "Souter, Jan-Michael" <JSouter@healthaxis.com>
15) TOT = Tech.Metal/fusion
by Oddvar Lovaas <flail@geheb.com>
16) Re: TOT = Tech.Metal/fusion
by Brian Hayden <bhayden@umn.edu>
17) Re: old fogies :)
by "Dave Schott" <admdave@qis.net>
18) Re: old fogies :)
by Kgahjah1@aol.com
19) Re: TOT = Tech.Metal/fusion
by "Dave Schott" <admdave@qis.net>
20) Re: TOT = Tech.Metal/fusion
by Brian Hayden <bhayden@umn.edu>
21) Re: TOT = Tech.Metal/fusion
by Mike Shetzer <echo26@videotron.ca>
22) Re: TOT = Tech.Metal/fusion
by Damon Fibraio <dfibraio@comcast.net>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 21:27:22 EST
From: Snarncymbl@aol.com
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Mike doesn't have an ego
Message-ID: <c6.251877b9.2ceadd8a@aol.com>
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I don't know why everyone keeps saying that Mike Portnoy has an ego. If
anything he has the biggest sence of humor. He knows he good and how much he can do
but Ive never seen him get full of himself. I have, however, heard storys of
him wanting to put more to his drumming so he can win readers polls. You guys
look at this like cocky. I think thats the right reaction. I mean, he is only
striving to be better then he currently is and a drummer must explore his
talents in order to grow. The way I see it, Mike Portnoy does the things he does
for the fans. He does so much that it seems he just does it to see our reaction
and get a "kick" out of it. He seems to me like a man who only wants to
impress people and gain respect within the drumming community. And even though he
may already have it, he still has alot to show the drum world and is only
looking to have fun doing as much as possable.
I do agree with some of the comments about OSI and Transatlantic being the
best things to ever happen to him. Well, halfway aggree. Being a drummer myself
(Not that I can compare with MP), its important to be versatile and I think
its a brilliant move on his part to form other bands so he can take a break from
all the fast past styles of DT and take a chance to take things easy, yet be
himself. It takes pressure off him to have another band where he doesn't have
to worry about trying to impress. Once again, this is only my opinion.
And, Bob Rodrigues, this ones for you man:
"Dont Cross the Crooked Step!". lol.
Art Fernandez
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Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 20:36:40 -0600
From: Michael & Pamela Nazer <mnazer@pressenter.com>
To: ytsejam <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: old fogies :)
Message-ID: <BBDEE1D8.4B7C%mnazer@pressenter.com>
> I'm not saying this is my favorite DT albums, but you old fogies need to
> open up your minds and learn how to accept some change. Stop critiquing
> everything and enjoy the beautiful music, you bastards act like they're as
> bad as 50 Cent or something. Flame me all you want, your opinions mean shit
> to me.
>
> I'll be looking for the real fan lists now thank you. Over and out.
>
> "Don't Cross the Crooked Step!"
>
Hey Bob stick around for awhile, people will calm down, and you might be
able to see how great this place is.
BTW I am an old fogie(42), and I think TOT rocks!
Pam
"Hi"
John Myung, 8/23/1998
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 21:35:12 EST
From: Snarncymbl@aol.com
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: RE: YTSEJAM digest 6705
Message-ID: <26.419846f8.2ceadf60@aol.com>
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I agree with Bob. I mean, Dream Theater did a heck of a job. This album is
musiclly
intense and lyriclly equal. They can't please everyone, as we now see. So,
please shut up. Everyones entitled to their opinion but you guys speak like
its a
fact. And I can tell that you dont feel its only an opinion, but a dead fact.
Dream Theater can do no wrong. As long as they do what they want and enjoy
doing it and take themselves where they feel they want to go, then I will
always
be a fan. Mabey you arnt a true fan if you wern't in aww. Even if you wern't
in
aww, if you were a true fan you would respect DT for doing their own thing
and not following orders. I dont think that all this negitivity is good for
the
true fans. If you don't have anything nice else to say, then do everyone a
favor and shut up. Because of what you may think is a bad choice on Dream
Theaters part, it may in fact be a great move on their part. They can't do
any wrong.
And if you wern't impressed by Train of Thought, then mabey you arnt as big
of a fan as you thought you were. A real fan would enjoy Dream Theaters long
awaited new album and sit back and listin to the songs over and over again to
listin to stuff you may have missed. I'd like to see anybody else do better.
In
my opinion (Please note that I stated this as my opinion), if you think you
can do better, go ahead. But until you do better then them, keep your mouth
shut.
Art Fernandez
P.S: Bob Rodrigues: I liked that last line "Don't Cross The Crooked Step!".
Very nice choice. Its one of the many awsome lines from ToT. You seem like a
true DT fan, unlike some of the others posting who have nothing but bad
things
to say about them. :)
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Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:15:23 -0500
From: "Ilia" <painlessscream@yahoo.com>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: re: recent topics
Message-ID: <LJEJLFCHDEEHAGCHOFPHMEONCAAA.painlessscream@yahoo.com>
> Mike is Mike. He's still an animal. And am I mistaken, or is there a
> complete lack of MP backing(or other) vocals on this cd? Curious.
Thank god, LaBrie doing his own harmony overdubs. It's nice live, but when
you have a powerhouse like that on vocals, you look bad if you've had little
to no formal training.
> It seems like over the last few disks, there is something that is lacking
underneath the guitar solos, The sound really
> thins out, the rythem being played is usually catchy, but what strikes me
as odd is how thin the music sounds during the
> guitar solo of this song.
There have been very few memorable solos in DT, recently. If you compare it
to, say, Killing Hand, UaGM, Voices, TTT, and solos like that, what have we
had recently? Goodnight Kiss, Blind Faith (keyboard), 'symphonic' sections
of SfaM, but out of the number of songs that they've had, melodic soloing
has really seen the door in DT compositions. I also noticed that Petrucci
solos over increasingly simple progressions, in terms of both feel and key.
Or do I owe him an apology?
> A lot of you have been talking lately about whether TOT is progressive and
> whether FII is progressive. Just out of curiosity, what are your
definitions
> of progressive? Someone said that just having complicated time changes is
> not enough. So what is the "official" definition of progressive?
That was me. I wasn't saying either way on whether TOT or FII are
progressive; I was just pointing out that weird time signatures don't make
something progressive. Just the same, I'm not going to say that
"progressive" as applied to music even has a strict ("official") connotative
definition. But I do have some thoughts, for I've given this matter quite a
few.
I always thought of progressive as something that takes an idea and moves it
from point A to point X through several others in-between (in an arbitrary
order). Conceptually complex writing sometimes requires fitting a melody
that's not metrically usual into one measure. Sometimes a thematic idea
will spread over several measures, or have variations rhythmically. Same
way, strange tonal movement is sometimes necessary to get a particular mood
point across.
Odd time signatures for sake of odd time signatures are math rock, just like
fast playing for sake of fast playing is shred metal. If something is
completely disjunct and uses weird atonalisms, it might be entirely
non-sensical (without a concept, therefore incapable of making it
'progress.') Progressive is a qualifier that can apply to any genre
(progressive jazz, progressive metal... anyone heard any progressive
country? Dreggs maybe?), and not necessarily a genre in and of itself.
Not sure if this response can be considered more than just demagogy (I'll
decide when I get the next digest). Anyone else have thoughts on this?
Ilia
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:24:43 -0500
From: WB Henderson <LycanthropicEye@comcast.net>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Ali and His Gang vs. Mr. Tooth Decay
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20031117231931.00ae4390@mail.comcast.net>
Art Fernandez wrote:
>If you don't have anything nice else to say, then do everyone a
>favor and shut up.
Ah, yes. I'd forgotten about the Ytsejam's no-criticism
policy... Honestly, would you really want to belong to this list if it
were only band ass-kissing? I know I wouldn't. Clashing opinions keep
things interesting.
On "true fans": 100% catalog approval as a requirement for fandom is just
as silly as a minumum merch tab or a concert attendance requirement.
Unrelated note - holy crow, we're on digest 6705?! Seems like only
yesterday when people were psyching themselves up for 2112.
Second unrelated note - check this site out if you enjoy laughing at
old-tyme bad album covers: http://www.bizarrerecords.com/
Brian (non-Hayden)
[NP...In The Woods - Omnio]
=============================================
WB Henderson [LycanthropicEye@comcast.net]
=============================================
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:38:27 -0500
From: "Ilia" <painlessscream@yahoo.com>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: re: opinions and FII commentary
Message-ID: <LJEJLFCHDEEHAGCHOFPHIEOOCAAA.painlessscream@yahoo.com>
I don't think my last few posts got through, so I'm re-posting some... sorry
if you guys already saw this (or don't want to see this).
Regarding opinions: everyone buys albums for different reason, and
(dis)likes them for different reasons. Personally, I didn't get into DT
until late 1999, at which point I had to play some serious catch-up. I got
Images and Words because I heard the guitar lead break after the chorus of
Pull Me Under on my then-gf's father's stereo (I asked him what band it was,
and he said "Dream Theater... I don't like them too much.") I didn't like
Awake because LaBrie's voice changed styles so much from I&W - now I love it
(my favorite album). ACoS will always have a special place in my heart
because I associate it with my first trip to France ("We can hold for the
future, but there may not be one" - as the plane was getting ready for
takeoff). I never liked the lyrical themes in SfaM (too simplistic, too
introspective, no action), but I like the way the lyrics are written, and I
dig the references to Metropolis Pt. I. I got live scenes because the whole
9/11 thing happened - even though I knew I'd have one without the
controvertial cover. When I heard a leak of Glass Prison, I knew I'd get
down with 6DoiT, even though it'd be different. While I scarcely listen to
much of the material from that album, I love the songs like Misundertstood
and WIMH/TTtSTA.
On the same token, after I got Once In A Livetime (which I got because I was
interested in the guitar and piano solos), I knew I didn't really want FII,
OiaL had most of the FII songs that I liked. Still, when I listen to studio
versions of FII material (demos from LitS site), I can't help but imagine
what the production of that may have been like. Since it's the most blatant
stab at commercial success of all their albums, I think of the reactions of
the producers to, say, JLMB:
Intro [guitar fades in, drums kick]: "That's a catchy beat!"
Keyboard fades in: "Oooooh, keyboard..... :-/ well, it's a cool riff I
guess"
First verse: "This is gonna be a hit single!"
First chorus: "Rocking out, yeah"
Second verse: "Wait, this is the second verse? Sounded different first time
around."
Second chorus: "Rocking out, yeah"
Interlude [heavy part in B]: "Whoa, this is still the same song?"
Synch guitar/keyboard duet: "Oh, the boys wanna do that now... alright....
mark that for deletion from the radio edit."
And so on... it's a fun record to listen to, and has some acoustic pieces
that you can't always find on other DT records.
I'll admit, I did get ToT primarily because it's the "LATEST AND GREATEST
FROM DREAM THEATER" (and in part because I wanted to hear the contest song).
It's not one of my favorites, but when I'm in a mood for something
crushingly heavy with lightning-fast guitar/keyboard duets, I'll look no
further. Of course there's more to each album than the reason you get it,
and how many people can honestly say that all their top favorite parts of DT
songs are the same as the next fellow's? Taste also changes with time, so
if you hate ToT now, who says you won't be spinning it 24/7 ten years from
now? Or if you love it now, how do you know that will last?
That one new guy said, he's the outcast because no one he knows likes Dream
Theater. A lot of my friends are as far from being DT people as they come.
However, since they've met me, they've grown to appreciate DT, enjoy the
conceptual compositions, and even like some of the songs at the top of their
favorites list. This goes beyond Dream Theater - I listen to a lot of music
that's good whether it's your "style" or "thing" or not, and most people
whom I meet grow to like some of it, to some extent.
So if you can't appreciate the new album for anything at all that's on it,
then shit! they're people too. They didn't feel like doing orchestral
arrangements, they wanted to bang out a heavy metal album in three weeks.
Next record will probably sound like I&W, and everyone will hate it too. I
go to their live shows (and as of the last two tours, only to Evening with
DT ones) and buy their albums primarily because they're good musicians and
play well together, not because they have the best songs in the world or
their style is the absolute perfection of all music of all times.
Anyway... am I out of line here?
- Ilia
P.S. I got my ToT from Amazon. I got it the day after release using the
Super Saver Shipping (tacked on Greg Howe's new CD to qualify for that).
Granted, it's not CDNow, which got me 6DoiT the day before release. But
I've never had any problem with Amazon in the past - great delivery, items
in mint condition, good packaging, wide selection (of fucking everything!),
and they make me feel like a valued customer. I never got that feeling from
CDNow or CDUniverse, so I keep buying from Amazon.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:29:25 -0500
From: "Kez" <bkeyser@cox.net>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: old fogies :)
Message-ID: <011e01c3ad8c$8c2f90a0$6401a8c0@amdathlon14>
> Hey Bob stick around for awhile, people will calm down, and you might be
> able to see how great this place is.
>
> BTW I am an old fogie(42), and I think TOT rocks!
>
>
> Pam
Damn, beaten out AGAIN for oldest remaining Ytsejammer.......... ;)
I'm ONLY 41. And I also think ToT rocks.
Kez
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:30:11 -0500
From: "Kez" <bkeyser@cox.net>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: old fogies :)
Message-ID: <012201c3ad8c$a7692b60$6401a8c0@amdathlon14>
Oh by the way, go buy the new Sun Caged disc.
SWEEEET!!!!
Trust me.
Kez
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:30:03 -0500
From: Coldfire <coldie@bellatlantic.net>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: old fogies :)
Message-ID: <3FB9A04B.BE48172F@bellatlantic.net>
OY...when did YOU become a pimp? ;)
Coldie
Kez wrote:
>
> Oh by the way, go buy the new Sun Caged disc.
>
> SWEEEET!!!!
>
> Trust me.
>
> Kez
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:44:39 -0500
From: WB Henderson <LycanthropicEye@comcast.net>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: re: opinions and FII commentary
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20031117233615.02f5ebc0@mail.comcast.net>
Ilia wrote:
>P.S. I got my ToT from Amazon.
<snip>
>Granted, it's not CDNow
Heh. Actually, these days Amazon IS CDNow (although I believe CDNow's
parent company still owns the 'brand name').
Brian
=============================================
WB Henderson [LycanthropicEye@comcast.net]
=============================================
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 00:00:14 EST
From: DTimagesandwords@aol.com
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: Warning: No opinions allowed
Message-ID: <6f.3e8ee8a3.2ceb015e@aol.com>
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>> It's the strongest effort since FII, imo.
and
>> Strongest effort since SFaM I would say...=A0
>> 6DoIT was garbage.
I will go one step further and say that this is the BEST EFFORT since Awake.
=A0
It has grown on me, let it grow on you.=A0 Maybe for me it may be the lack o
f
negative rather than the amount of positive.=A0 Sure FII did have some real
high
spots but indeed there was too much on FII for me to "suffer through".=A0 Sh
it,
the penis on the back cover wasn't even that big ..... ;)
That said, I am not sure that I like the fact that it is almost entirely
guitar-dominated.=A0 I do love (LOVE) heavy guitar but when it comes at the
expense
of the keys, to me it loses one of the core values of DT.=A0 Jordan cannot b
e
happy about this although I bet he likes cashing the larger paychecks that D
T
provide !!=A0
And all the complaints about the lyrics seem a little harsh to me.=A0 What d
o
you guys want, lyrics on par with Hamlet .....=A0 ;)
About Honor Thy Father, this does seem quite personal in nature.=A0 I dont
think that anyone has stated an obvious option.=A0 Couldn't this easily be
interpreted as a bitterly self-critical song by Mike written from Marlene's
perspective
?A0
Mark-san
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Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:46:34 -0000
From: "Gary Walmsley" <Gary.Walmsley@fcslasermail.co.uk>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Subscribe
Message-ID: <22A5C8410A58E84FB46528143078FD9B0E1A21@altair.lasermail.local>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
subscribe me please?
Gaz
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Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:17:31 -0500
From: Coldfire <coldie@bellatlantic.net>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: old fogies :)
Message-ID: <3FBA0DDB.C159DCEA@bellatlantic.net>
Quit lyin KEz......we all know yer only 35 ;)
Coldie
Kez wrote:
>
> > Hey Bob stick around for awhile, people will calm down, and you might be
> > able to see how great this place is.
> >
> > BTW I am an old fogie(42), and I think TOT rocks!
> >
> >
> > Pam
>
> Damn, beaten out AGAIN for oldest remaining Ytsejammer.......... ;)
>
> I'm ONLY 41. And I also think ToT rocks.
>
> Kez
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:56:46 -0600
From: "Souter, Jan-Michael" <JSouter@healthaxis.com>
To: "'ytsejam@torchsong.com'" <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: RE: MP
Message-ID: <4642CF49B0BEB44386CA20BD34DC243801C8F524@hhpech01.healthaxis.dom>
Rob.... is there any music you actually like this year? LOL :)
jm
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob P [mailto:ytsejam2002@hotmail.com]
I listened to that fill and I don't know why Mike had to even pay for
it...it's not a big deal from the sound of the fill. Should I mention that
Neal's album disappoints me too or will I get killed for that? Sounds too
typical while the new SB has great songs throughout. <ducking>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 06:58:49 -0800
From: Oddvar Lovaas <flail@geheb.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: TOT = Tech.Metal/fusion
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20031118065841.025fb3c0@geheb.com>
>Before DT I came from a Metal/Fusion background, I guess a lot of you came
>from a rock background and don't like the sound and ideas. But that's only a
>guess because I LOVE THIS ALBUM
>I'm actually tired of only seeing the flaming and those who like the Album
>not speaking up (not many in anyway).
Well, I guess it's time to stand up and be counted.
Although I don't know how TOT will feel after a year, I really really like
what I hear. I didn't expect DT to progress towards the technical side of
metal, and was surprised by TOT for it's heaviness and technical level.
Fortunately, I'm a big fan of this sort of music, and thus enjoy TOT even
more so! I can see the complaints of "wanky" technical solos and
overplaying - and although songs like metropolis and fatal tragedy include
this type of stuff as well - I can only hope the solo/instrumental parts of
TOT will grow to the height of such songs!! (way too early to judge
anything now, IMO)
I love the meshuggah-like parts of Honor (not only the beginning!) - _love_
the King Crimson part of SoC (how chunky is that bass!?!) and generally
like that every song (apart from Vacant, which I feel is a (fantastic)
intro to SoC) jumps out at you and is definitely metal! The first time I
heard Glass Prison part 2 I almost thought it was some sort of technical CD
error - surely it shouldn't go this fast?? Havn't heard the two "as one"
yet, but am looking forward to it. And I actually like "As I Am", although
I agree that the Black Album influences are strong in this one (not a bad
thing though - it's just a catchy, heavy song with good lyrics IMHO).
The rap bits I would not actually call 'rap' - and although it does feel a
bit weird, I enjoy that DT can include some new stuff in their music that
fans didn't expect. And it does make the second "verse" of Honor (with
James' singing) sound so much more powerful!
I think SoC will stand out as one of THE DT songs ever given time... (and
that is quite a statement!)
Finally, In the Name of God is excellent, I don't really understand this
9th-grade poetry pish - I was (pleasantly) surprised by these lyrics,
especially the end: "Does following faith/lead us to violence?"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:25:47 -0600 (CST)
From: Brian Hayden <bhayden@umn.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: TOT = Tech.Metal/fusion
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.50.0311180923550.29727-100000@garnet.tc.umn.edu>
> Finally, In the Name of God is excellent, I don't really understand this
> 9th-grade poetry pish - I was (pleasantly) surprised by these lyrics,
> especially the end: "Does following faith/lead us to violence?"
People have been asking that question for millenia, and there is nothing
new, interesting, or personal in the way it's dealt with in this song. It
is, literally, indistinguishable from the poems we had to write about our
thoughts of war in my ninth grade english course.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian D. Hayden | "As the world draws closer and closer
ADCS Helpline | to its date with total randomness,
University of Minnesota | things will change." - Chris Taylor,
Voice: 612.624.3022 | _Unix is a Four Letter Word_
--------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 00:23:14 -0500
From: "Dave Schott" <admdave@qis.net>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: old fogies :)
Message-ID: <00a401c3ad94$111d16f0$0200a8c0@Two>
Do I get youngest at 18?
-Dave Schott (AdmiralDave)
admdave@qis.net
http://www.bangarangband.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kez" <bkeyser@cox.net>
To: "Multiple recipients of list" <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 11:16 PM
Subject: Re: old fogies :)
> > Hey Bob stick around for awhile, people will calm down, and you might be
> > able to see how great this place is.
> >
> > BTW I am an old fogie(42), and I think TOT rocks!
> >
> >
> > Pam
>
>
> Damn, beaten out AGAIN for oldest remaining Ytsejammer.......... ;)
>
> I'm ONLY 41. And I also think ToT rocks.
>
>
> Kez
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:19:03 EST
From: Kgahjah1@aol.com
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: old fogies :)
Message-ID: <70.34f241e7.2cebbc97@aol.com>
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maybe for posting, but not for reading them.
my 7 year old has been a fan for years and likes to read some of these posts.
he reads all the liner notes to the dt cd's and the fanzines that get mailed
every four months or so.
me, i'm in the 41 club.
jacko
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Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:23:58 -0500
From: "Dave Schott" <admdave@qis.net>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: TOT = Tech.Metal/fusion
Message-ID: <001501c3ae01$223561f0$0200a8c0@Two>
Eh your full of crap quite frankly. Its a good song and the lyrics address
questions we all have in our minds. Aide from that, find me a ninth grader
that can write that well, I dare you. It may be ninth grade subject
material, but not in anyway ninth grade quality.
Also, to me, SoC screams To Live Is to Die at certain points, and Orion at
others, and Call of Ktulu at still other, I'm just glad they didn't try to
top DoE in terms of playing fast and crazy.
-Dave Schott (AdmiralDave)
admdave@qis.net
http://www.bangarangband.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Hayden" <bhayden@umn.edu>
To: "Multiple recipients of list" <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 10:37 AM
Subject: Re: TOT = Tech.Metal/fusion
> > Finally, In the Name of God is excellent, I don't really understand this
> > 9th-grade poetry pish - I was (pleasantly) surprised by these lyrics,
> > especially the end: "Does following faith/lead us to violence?"
>
> People have been asking that question for millenia, and there is nothing
> new, interesting, or personal in the way it's dealt with in this song. It
> is, literally, indistinguishable from the poems we had to write about our
> thoughts of war in my ninth grade english course.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> Brian D. Hayden | "As the world draws closer and closer
> ADCS Helpline | to its date with total randomness,
> University of Minnesota | things will change." - Chris Taylor,
> Voice: 612.624.3022 | _Unix is a Four Letter Word_
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:03:00 -0600 (CST)
From: Brian Hayden <bhayden@umn.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: TOT = Tech.Metal/fusion
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.50.0311181254170.29479-100000@garnet.tc.umn.edu>
> Eh your full of crap quite frankly. Its a good song and the lyrics address
> questions we all have in our minds. Aide from that, find me a ninth grader
> that can write that well, I dare you. It may be ninth grade subject
> material, but not in anyway ninth grade quality.
Well, sorry, I guess our experiences differ. Because I think you're the
one who's full of crap if that's your idea of eloquence. Two very simple
things: style and substance. Is either original, or particularly advanced?
No.
--- Justifying violence Citing from the Holy Book Teaching hatred In the name of GodListen when the prophet Speaks to you Killing in the name of God
Passion Twisting faith into violence In the name of God
Religious beliefs Fanatic obsession Does following faith Lead us to violence?
Unyielding crusade Divine revelation Does following faith Lead us to violence? ---
If you think there's anything original about that, I'm sorry, but you're plain wrong. Hell, I probably would have felt the same as you if I'd heard it at 18. Spend a few more years listening to music and digging into older bands. This is a song that's been written thousands of times, and often better.
-Brian
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Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 14:13:43 -0500 From: Mike Shetzer <echo26@videotron.ca> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: TOT = Tech.Metal/fusion Message-ID: <002501c3ae08$1505d120$9b00a8c0@mizz>
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>Also, to me, SoC screams To Live Is to Die at certain points, and Orion at >others, and Call of Ktulu at still other, I'm just glad they didn't try to >top DoE in terms of playing fast and crazy.
Yeah? In some ways I was expecting them to top it in its complexity (even after reading the notes for the contest which suggested that it wasn't THAT complex a tune), and was really surprised to hear that they turned down the insanity on this instrumental. My first impression was "damn, they couldnt top DoE" but after more listens i REALLY like what direction they chose for this album's instrumental.
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Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 14:36:07 -0500 From: Damon Fibraio <dfibraio@comcast.net> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: TOT = Tech.Metal/fusion Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031118142852.01c46ad8@mail.comcast.net>
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I am beginning to think that some of us are a little spoiled here. Brian, your opinion is fine and it is yours, but I don't know if it is fair to put down anybody's lyrics based on your perseption of what good poetry is. I have TOT and I like it. Is it DT's best material? NO. Iwould be hard pressed to say that it is, Iwould also be hard pressed to tell you what Ithink DT's strongest material is. Idon't hate any DT releases, even FII. I am no sheep, either. I am considered different, since Ilike all forms of Yes, even the 80s stuff, and all Genesis, even the 80s stuff, and all Rush, even the 80s and 90s stuff, when other die hard proggers pass it off as commercialism or what not. My only real gripe is how Jordan is basically burried in the mix here for the most part, but that is just how it happens. I am used to keyboardists being burried in mixes. I wish a producer would come out with some forward thinking in mind and actually put the keys at the same level as the guitars for a balanced mix. Rock is not all guitars, you know. Why does jazz get it right most of the time and rock never does? Probably because guitarists fill up the mix so much and don't allow room for other instruments. But that is my own ranting. I am no lyricist and I can't read the liner notes because well, I just can't for a few reasons, but Ido like this album. I think DT fans are a bit of a spoiled bunch. Look at what passes off for popular music today and tell me that this is still a crappy album. I don't mind shredding sometimes. I don't think these are bad songs at all, and I would listen to this over a band like The White Stripes any day at any time. But, we being at a different plane than standard rock listeners, I guess we are picky. DT has spoiled us with albums like Awake, Images and Words, Scenes and Six Degrees and now we expect them to top every album they put out. Guys, they may fall short sometimes. Look at other transitional albums from bands like Genesis with And then there were three, or Rush with Signals or Caress of Steel, or Yes with Relayer or Drama or Big Generator. Not their highest rated work, even though I like them, but still, sometimes experimentation leads to classics like, say, Moving Pictures, 90125, ABACAB, as poppy as it is or Lamb lies down on broadway, Scenes from a memory, or what have you. Anyway, that is my 2 cents, and I am sure somebody is going to come back with a remark of jadedness, but that's what I expect sometimes from this often hard to please crowd.
At 02:11 PM 11/18/2003, you wrote:
> > Eh your full of crap quite frankly. Its a good song and the lyrics address > > questions we all have in our minds. Aide from that, find me a ninth grader > > that can write that well, I dare you. It may be ninth grade subject > > material, but not in anyway ninth grade quality. > >Well, sorry, I guess our experiences differ. Because I think you're the >one who's full of crap if that's your idea of eloquence. Two very simple >things: style and substance. Is either original, or particularly advanced? >No. > >--- > Justifying violence > Citing from the Holy Book > Teaching hatred > In the name of God > > Listen when the prophet > Speaks to you > Killing in the name of God > > Passion > Twisting faith into violence > In the name of God > > Religious beliefs > Fanatic obsession > Does following faith > Lead us to violence? > > Unyielding crusade > Divine revelation > Does following faith > Lead us to violence? >--- > >If you think there's anything original about that, I'm sorry, but you're >plain wrong. Hell, I probably would have felt the same as you if I'd heard >it at 18. Spend a few more years listening to music and digging into older >bands. This is a song that's been written thousands of times, and often >better. > >-Brian
-- Damon Fibraio, email dfibraio@comcast.net Musician, broadcaster, computer technician, and troublemaker aol instant messenger screenname: dfibraio MSN Messenger screenname: dfibraio@comcast.net: Band site: Visions: http://www.visions692000.com Listen to no Holds Barred Radio. Go to our site at http://www.nhbradio.com
"To those who understand, I extend my hand To the doubtful I demand, take me as I am Not under your command, I know where I stand I won't change to fit your plan, take me as I am."--Dream Theater, As I am
"All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers turn to look at the stars All of us do time in the gutter, dreamers turn to look at the cars Turn around and walk the razor's edge."--Neil Peart of Rush, The Pass
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