YTSEJAM Digest 6711
Today's Topics:
1) Re: lyrics
by "Ilia" <painlessscream@yahoo.com>
2) Re: TOT = Tech.Metal/fusion
by "Dave Schott" <admdave@qis.net>
3) Old fogies untie-- err, unite!
by "Paul W. Cashman" <pellaz@comcast.net>
4) Re: TOT = Tech.Metal/fusion
by Brian Hayden <bhayden@umn.edu>
5) miscellaneous thoughts
by Sebastian Keil <keil.s@web.de>
6) White Stripes
by Steve Chew <schew@interzone.com>
7) RE: miscellaneous thoughts
by "Souter, Jan-Michael" <JSouter@healthaxis.com>
8) Re: In the name of god lyrics
by flail@geheb.com
9) Re: Old fogies untie-- err, unite!
by Mike Shetzer <echo26@videotron.ca>
10) Re: In the name of god lyrics
by Brian Hayden <bhayden@umn.edu>
11) progcountry/old rocker
by "Trevor Hoit" <trevorhoit@comcast.net>
12) Re: miscellaneous thoughts
by Antony Gelberg <antony@antgel.co.uk>
13) Re: TOT = Tech.Metal/fusion
by Antony Gelberg <antony@antgel.co.uk>
14) Re: old fogies
by "Bill Huston" <pvcirrus5@msn.com>
15) Re: Ali and His Gang vs. Mr. Tooth Decay
by Snarncymbl@aol.com
16) Re: TOT = Tech.Metal/fusion
by Antony Gelberg <antony@antgel.co.uk>
17) What Contraversial Album Cover?
by Snarncymbl@aol.com
18) "Real Fans?"
by "Pye, Adam T" <Adam.Pye@BellSouth.com>
19) Re: YTSEJAM digest 6710
by "Juan Roman Martinez Rodriguez" <jroman47@hotmail.com>
20) Re: TOT = Tech.Metal/fusion
by Damon Fibraio <dfibraio@comcast.net>
21) Re: YTSEJAM digest 6710
by Damon Fibraio <dfibraio@comcast.net>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:23:44 -0500
From: "Ilia" <painlessscream@yahoo.com>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: lyrics
Message-ID: <015601c3ae11$dd889a20$6a01a8c0@covad.net>
> And all the complaints about the lyrics seem a little harsh to me.=A0 What
do
> you guys want, lyrics on par with Hamlet .....=A0 ;)
They have Pull Me Under don't they? :-D
> "To those who understand, I extend my hand
> To the doubtful I demand, take me as I am
> Not under your command, I know where I stand
> I won't change to fit your plan, take me as I am."--Dream Theater, As I am
>
> "All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers turn to look at the stars
> All of us do time in the gutter, dreamers turn to look at the cars
> Turn around and walk the razor's edge."--Neil Peart of Rush, The Pass
This album is not very original in terms of themes, but I think that was the
intent - both lyrically and musically. It cites a lot of previous material,
explicitly (like Glass Prison) or implicitly (ACoS). It probably has a lot
of references that we have yet to catch, to other bands. Someone said there
are parts of some song that sound like some song from WD&DU, etc. And of
course, who can neglect "Rush Cadence!" in SoC (if you haven't listened to
SoC while looking at the song maps yet, you ought to try - it's fun). Some
of these references sound like they're well thought out, while others are
just slapstick. Whatever the case, that has never made an album less
tolerable for me.
All I was saying regarding lyrics is that I don't like the way they're
written. They explicitly state what there is to be said, there's no
metaphor. It's not interesting. I can get that on rock radio. Sure, it's
well done in that element, but I'd rather be reading Shakespeare. Not that
I listen much to lyrics anyway.
Ilia
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Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:18:47 -0500
From: "Dave Schott" <admdave@qis.net>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: TOT = Tech.Metal/fusion
Message-ID: <007301c3ae11$2c4dd040$0200a8c0@Two>
Well the point is rather moot for me anyway, I was never into MUSIC for
POETRY, if I want poetry I'll go read a book. Plus I never said it was
eloquent, I just said that it deserved a little more credit that you gave
it.
-Dave Schott (AdmiralDave)
admdave@qis.net
http://www.bangarangband.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Hayden" <bhayden@umn.edu>
To: "Multiple recipients of list" <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 2:11 PM
Subject: Re: TOT = Tech.Metal/fusion
> > Eh your full of crap quite frankly. Its a good song and the lyrics
address
> > questions we all have in our minds. Aide from that, find me a ninth
grader
> > that can write that well, I dare you. It may be ninth grade subject
> > material, but not in anyway ninth grade quality.
>
> Well, sorry, I guess our experiences differ. Because I think you're the
> one who's full of crap if that's your idea of eloquence. Two very simple
> things: style and substance. Is either original, or particularly advanced?
> No.
>
> ---
> Justifying violence
> Citing from the Holy Book
> Teaching hatred
> In the name of God
>
> Listen when the prophet
> Speaks to you
> Killing in the name of God
>
> Passion
> Twisting faith into violence
> In the name of God
>
> Religious beliefs
> Fanatic obsession
> Does following faith
> Lead us to violence?
>
> Unyielding crusade
> Divine revelation
> Does following faith
> Lead us to violence?
> ---
>
> If you think there's anything original about that, I'm sorry, but you're
> plain wrong. Hell, I probably would have felt the same as you if I'd heard
> it at 18. Spend a few more years listening to music and digging into older
> bands. This is a song that's been written thousands of times, and often
> better.
>
> -Brian
>
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Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:30:49 -0500
From: "Paul W. Cashman" <pellaz@comcast.net>
To: ytsejam <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Old fogies untie-- err, unite!
Message-ID: <3FBA8179.5DDE@comcast.net>
> Unrelated note - holy crow, we're on digest 6705?! Seems like
> only yesterday when people were psyching themselves up for 2112.
Yowza, that -is- kinda startling......
--Paul / Pellaz
(one of the Old Ones)
-- +--- Paul W. Cashman, ICQ #4151223 www.paulcashman.com ----+ | NEW email: pellaz@comcast.net | | "true" website address: http://home.comcast.net/~pellaz | +---------------------------------------------------------------+---YTSEJAM-FILTER: This message was posted using the YML command
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Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 14:37:34 -0600 (CST) From: Brian Hayden <bhayden@umn.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: TOT = Tech.Metal/fusion Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.50.0311181437020.28159-100000@garnet.tc.umn.edu>
> Well the point is rather moot for me anyway, I was never into MUSIC for > POETRY, if I want poetry I'll go read a book. Plus I never said it was > eloquent, I just said that it deserved a little more credit that you gave > it.
If it's moot, why did you argue it? Seems odd...
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Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 21:48:55 +0100 From: Sebastian Keil <keil.s@web.de> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: miscellaneous thoughts Message-ID: <BBE04447.6CB%keil.s@web.de>
dear folks, usually I get acquainted with new music via the actual music, not the lyrics. I should have kept it that way. My new sig should be
you're the rotted root in the family tree, yeah!
btw, isn't it "rotten"?
also, am I the only one who doesn't like Vacant yet? sab
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Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 16:09:40 -0500 From: Steve Chew <schew@interzone.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: White Stripes Message-ID: <20031118210940.GC13666@interzone.com>
Damon Fibraio wrote: >I think DT fans are a bit of a spoiled bunch. Look >at what passes off for popular music today and tell me that this is still a >crappy album. I don't mind shredding sometimes. I don't think these are bad >songs at all, and I would listen to this over a band like The White Stripes >any day at any time. But, we being at a different plane than standard rock >listeners, I guess we are picky. >
Actually, I really like The White Stripes. Their music has little resemblance to DT but they have some very cool melodies and dynamics and I like their vocal delivery. In fact, I'd say that DT could take a hint from them about melodies -- you need to spend more than a few seconds developing a melody before moving on. This is especially true for vocal melodies. DT had much more interesting vocal melodies back on I&W and Awake than they do more recently (I haven't listened enough to ToT to pass judgement yet). I posted a long rant about this after 6DoiT so I won't get into it all again. On a different note, I agree with the poster who said that DT has forgotten how the guitars and keyboards can work together and also work within the context of the song -- take a listen to songs like Learning to Live and TTT to see what I mean. In those songs the solos weren't played a pure solos, independent of the rest of the song. Instead they worked beautifully within the context of the song. That's not to say that they don't do that at all today, but too often the solo seems like a break into whatever the soloist feels like playing rather than as a progression of the song. After some more listening I'll post on how I feel about ToT.
Steve
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Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:12:37 -0600 From: "Souter, Jan-Michael" <JSouter@healthaxis.com> To: "'ytsejam@torchsong.com'" <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: RE: miscellaneous thoughts Message-ID: <4642CF49B0BEB44386CA20BD34DC243801C8F5DA@hhpech01.healthaxis.dom>
Vacant is awesome. They did a great job with that song.
-----Original Message----- From: Sebastian Keil [mailto:keil.s@web.de]
dear folks, usually I get acquainted with new music via the actual music, not the lyrics. I should have kept it that way. My new sig should be
you're the rotted root in the family tree, yeah!
btw, isn't it "rotten"?
also, am I the only one who doesn't like Vacant yet? sab
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 21:26:54 +0000 (GMT) From: flail@geheb.com To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: In the name of god lyrics Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.56.0311182109300.23878@darthmaul.geheb.com>
> People have been asking that question for millenia, and there is nothing > new, interesting, or personal in the way it's dealt with in this song.
I don't really see why the fact that people have asked this question for millenia should be a reason for not dealing with the topic - on the contrary I think this a good reason to do so. After all, religion is still very much alive in the world today, and is definitely being used for 'brainwashing' purposes in different places - hence I would disagree on your claim of the lyrics not being intersting.
I guess another reason why I personally like the lyrics has something to do by being surprised by mr Petrucci for sharing my thoughts on the subject - especially after last year's events surrounding mr Morse.
Just to fling in my $0.02 on other discussions - I think the whole 'true fan' discussion is downright silly - the whole 'true'-ism has been a high priority in the black metal milieu during the last years - and I think Dimmu Borgir sums it all up quite nicely in 'Puritania'.
You don't have to buy and like all of DTs cd's in order to be a fan - although on the other hand, enjoying all of DTs releases does not make you a 'sheep' - which btw is a term just as silly as 'true'.
Cheers, Oddvar
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Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 16:40:21 -0500 From: Mike Shetzer <echo26@videotron.ca> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Old fogies untie-- err, unite! Message-ID: <004d01c3ae1c$90fe2d40$9b00a8c0@mizz>
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Holy Crow? I guess the cow is no longer sacred... ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul W. Cashman To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 3:21 PM Subject: Old fogies untie-- err, unite!
> Unrelated note - holy crow, we're on digest 6705?! Seems like > only yesterday when people were psyching themselves up for 2112.
Yowza, that -is- kinda startling......
--Paul / Pellaz (one of the Old Ones)
-- +--- Paul W. Cashman, ICQ #4151223 www.paulcashman.com ----+ | NEW email: pellaz@comcast.net | | "true" website address: http://home.comcast.net/~pellaz | +---------------------------------------------------------------+
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Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:47:36 -0600 (CST) From: Brian Hayden <bhayden@umn.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: In the name of god lyrics Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.50.0311181543050.22772-100000@garnet.tc.umn.edu>
> I don't really see why the fact that people have asked this question for > millenia should be a reason for not dealing with the topic - on the > contrary I think this a good reason to do so. After all, religion is still > very much alive in the world today, and is definitely being used for > 'brainwashing' purposes in different places - hence I would disagree on > your claim of the lyrics not being intersting.
You're conflating two issues. No, the fact that those thoughts have been around forever isn't a reason not to write about it. It *is* a reason to say something new, or say it in a new way, which simply wasn't done here.
If people like the lyrics that's great, more power to ya. What I said is that personally, I've heard a lot of songs that raise the same issues in a more interesting fashion (not to even mention other media, such as the written vs the musical).
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:47:25 -0800 From: "Trevor Hoit" <trevorhoit@comcast.net> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: progcountry/old rocker Message-ID: <001401c3ae1d$8e6b7f00$f7a2eb0c@attbi.com>
>... anyone heard any progressive country? No, but I do have a bluegrass remake of The Wall called "Rebuild the Wall" by Luthor Wright & the Wrongs.
>I'm ONLY 41. And I also think ToT rocks. 38. It rocks.
Trevor ---YTSEJAM FILTER: Rest of message skipped because of attachment
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Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:16:57 +0000 From: Antony Gelberg <antony@antgel.co.uk> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: miscellaneous thoughts Message-ID: <20031118221657.GA4499@brain.pulsesol.com>
On Tue, Nov 18, 2003 at 01:21:48PM -0800, Souter, Jan-Michael wrote: > Vacant is awesome. They did a great job with that song.
Yes it is. And if TDS is TGP part 2, then surely this song is a kind of Disappear part 2? It has the "breathy" singing that James can be really good at, even since Wait For Sleep. I always think of it as Sinatra-esque, not sure why since it doesn't sound like Frank. Perhaps it's the melodies.
T
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Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:35:22 +0000 From: Antony Gelberg <antony@antgel.co.uk> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: TOT = Tech.Metal/fusion Message-ID: <20031118223522.GB4499@brain.pulsesol.com>
On Tue, Nov 18, 2003 at 11:41:52AM -0800, Damon Fibraio wrote: > --=======7C2764DC===== > Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-63801DB8; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > I am beginning to think that some of us are a little spoiled here. Brian, > your opinion is fine and it is yours, but I don't know if it is fair to put > down anybody's lyrics based on your perseption of what good poetry is. I > have TOT and I like it. Is it DT's best material? NO. Iwould be hard > pressed to say that it is, Iwould also be hard pressed to tell you what > Ithink DT's strongest material is. Idon't hate any DT releases, even FII. I > am no sheep, either. I am considered different, since Ilike all forms of > Yes, even the 80s stuff, and all Genesis, even the 80s stuff, and all Rush, > even the 80s and 90s stuff, when other die hard proggers pass it off as > commercialism or what not. My only real gripe is how Jordan is basically > burried in the mix here for the most part, but that is just how it happens. > I am used to keyboardists being burried in mixes. I wish a producer would > come out with some forward thinking in mind and actually put the keys at > the same level as the guitars for a balanced mix. Rock is not all guitars, > you know. Why does jazz get it right most of the time and rock never does? > Probably because guitarists fill up the mix so much and don't allow room > for other instruments. But that is my own ranting. I am no lyricist and I
If you haven't listened to Spock's Beard, they are an awesome band with keys all over the mix. Jon Lord in Deep Purple was pretty loud as well.
I think the keys sound a little low because sometimes he is playing textural parts, adding ambience rather than leading. Also in unison parts, the timbre of the guitar is just more abrasive, as much as louder.
T
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Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:38:37 -0700 From: "Bill Huston" <pvcirrus5@msn.com> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: old fogies Message-ID: <BAY3-DAV144mFq4EE2V000235a9@hotmail.com>
Nope I'm even older--47--and I like ToT for the most part but still haven't listened to it enough to pass specific judgment of it. I do like it better thatn 6DOIT though, except for Blind Faith which I think has no business being on that album as it's sheer genius, IMHO. Been on the list since '94.
Wilmo
> Hey Bob stick around for awhile, people will calm down, and you might be > able to see how great this place is. > > BTW I am an old fogie(42), and I think TOT rocks! > > > Pam
>Damn, beaten out AGAIN for oldest remaining Ytsejammer.......... ;)
>I'm ONLY 41. And I also think ToT rocks.
>Kez
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Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 17:40:35 EST From: Snarncymbl@aol.com To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Ali and His Gang vs. Mr. Tooth Decay Message-ID: <1c3.11d25456.2cebf9e3@aol.com>
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You make a good point on it not being worth it if it were all of us kissing DT's butts. Mabey I just made it alittle unclear. What I was actually trying to say was that people are being too critical on this CD. The thing that makes you a 'true fan' is being open to whatever the band has to offer. Like ACDC. When Bon Scott suddenly died, they took a chance and got Brian Johnson to replace him. Only the people who wern't open minded would have turned their back on the new ACDC. Just because its diffrent from what your used to doesn't mean its particularly a bad thing.
On the note of some people not liking the cussing on the album Its nothing new. The have occassionally done it on other albums and always do it live. Metallica did the same thing. After so many albums of being somewhat cleanin language, they put out an album with some cussing. Didn't hurt the band any. The same is with DT.
And I'm not against some critisism. After all, thats what music is all about. What I didnt like to read was people criticizing the band themself. Its OK to not like an Album because everyone has their own liking and how they like Dream Theater to be. But when you start to go against the band thats when you have pushed the word 'opinion'. Then it just becomes hate mail. This is all I was trying to say but sometimes I talk so much I forget to get to my point :). Hey, it happens to the best of us. I am, however, glad to see people talking about DT on this newsletter. For a while the newsletter had NOTHING to do with Dream Theater anymore. Keep the comments coming but don't personally hate the band and its members because they are people too :)
Art Fernandez
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Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:46:32 +0000 From: Antony Gelberg <antony@antgel.co.uk> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: TOT = Tech.Metal/fusion Message-ID: <20031118224632.GC4499@brain.pulsesol.com>
On Tue, Nov 18, 2003 at 10:40:09AM -0800, Dave Schott wrote: > Eh your full of crap quite frankly. Its a good song and the lyrics address > questions we all have in our minds. Aide from that, find me a ninth grader > that can write that well, I dare you. It may be ninth grade subject > material, but not in anyway ninth grade quality. > > Also, to me, SoC screams To Live Is to Die at certain points, and Orion at > others, and Call of Ktulu at still other, I'm just glad they didn't try to > top DoE in terms of playing fast and crazy.
Yeah. I like the pace of the track - gives them a chance to concentrate on other things for a change. They can't win - do a track where the chops are toned down and it's "they didn't top DoE" - do a track with a bit more space and it's "this isn't prog, sell outs"...
I think SOC (and other parts) of the album have a lot of the sound and vibe of ACOS. Check out 10:20! No bad thing - that's my fav DT and probably always will be. Another song with that feel in parts is Honor Thy Father, especially around 1:47, and 2:57. Derek is that you? :)
I didn't mean to get into such in-depth analysis so soon... This album is improving with each listen. Then I expect to get bored of it next week, and then in December I'll "really" get it. Seems to happen that way a fair bit.
T
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Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 17:49:51 EST From: Snarncymbl@aol.com To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: What Contraversial Album Cover? Message-ID: <105.39de6f8f.2cebfc0f@aol.com>
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llia wrote: I got live scenes because the whole 9/11 thing happened - even though I knew I'd have one without the controvertial cover.
What controvertial album cover are you guys talking about? I didn't know it had an alternate album cover. If you have a picture of it, let me know cause I really would like to see it. :) thank you.
(You can email me or reply to this post. Either way is fine. I just gotta know about this album cover. lol) Art Fernandez
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Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 16:52:12 -0600 From: "Pye, Adam T" <Adam.Pye@BellSouth.com> To: "'ytsejam@torchsong.com'" <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: "Real Fans?" Message-ID: <D49F5F45C94E5447AF27277C3F9AD7BD0835B5A6@01al10015010042.ad.bls.com>
Art Fernandez drooled:
> Dream Theater can do no wrong. Mabey you arnt a true fan if you wern't in aww. Even if you wern't > in aww, if you were a true fan you would respect DT for doing their own thing > and not following orders.
First of all, it's "awe."
Now, here we go - someone questioning the "true fandom" of the people on the list that don't care for the new album. Just the line "Dream Theater can do no wrong" takes away any validity your opinion might have. Most of the people on this list have been around for years and years, and were involved in the DT community long before the massive amount of bandwagon jumpers that appeared with the Scenes album. I'm not trying to say that only the old-school fans have valid opinions (although they definitely have better perspective because SO much went on during the early years between the fans and the band.) But you can't question the "true fandom" of a Ytsejammer. If you want to do that, hit the Portnoy, DT.net, or Petrucci Forums.
I think the people that don't like the album are just looking for more from DT. They have high expectations, as they should. DT shouldn't be able to take a dump on a CD, put their logo on it, and have every fan love it. That's the "DT can do no wrong" mentality, and it's pathetic.
Personally, I haven't listened to the album enough to give it more than a cursory review. A few things I noticed right off the bat... Heavy stuff... Petrucci's definitely getting "faster" but not necessarily "better." James stays away from the super high notes, which is GREAT. I grew out of "high notes are cool" long ago. (And, for that matter, I grew out of "blindingly fast solos are cool" around the same time.) I agree with whoever said that the "rap" portions of songs aren't really "rap." I don't mind them at all. Jordan's keys tone is still incredibly wimpy, which is why it's drowned out by Petrucci's monster guitar tone. It sounds like someone's playing a solo with the shooting sounds from "Laser Tag." Despite being probably the most technically talented keys player I've ever come across, I still think that Jordan was not a good fit for this band. He surely doesn't add anything to the "balls n' chunk" factor that Portnoy loves so much. I'm not sure what it is, but his playing bores the daylights out of me. There's just nothing unique about it. Kevin Moore had his great soundscapes (at least to the extent that playing in DT allowed) and wonderful songwriting skills. Derek had the best keys tones ever along with stage presence and a willingness to improv. Listen to Lines in the Sand - Derek vs Jordan. No comparison - Derek peels your face back from your skull while Jordan just keeps firing blanks from his laser gun. I'm not even normally a big fan of the "metal" side of "prog metal," but I do appreciate POWER. Jordan ain't got it. Portnoy still slays on the drums. Typical Portnoy on this album, from what I've heard. Excellent, but I wouldn't mind a little restraint from him, either.
I'll freely admit, though, that I'll never like DT as much as I used to. I've grown out of metal and shred, and appreciate restraint, melody, tastefulness, and -songwriting- at this point in my musical "career." I love Petrucci, but I think someone should lock him in a room with David Gilmour or Eric Clapton sometimes to learn a little self control. The song writing, in my opinion, has definitely deteriorated over the past few albums. Awake was the peak of their songwriting - they didn't have to rely on any gimicks like concept albums and all of those songs stood on their own. SFAM was decent, but only a few of those songs stand on their own and the lyrics, at points, were pure Cheese Whiz. The first disc of 6DoIT had its moments, too, but the second disc was so bad that I can't even bear to listen to it. I've just got a more demanding ear for lyrics and songwriting right now, and the "cheesiness" that I once tolerated and even enjoyed (given, in my younger years) just makes me cringe now. I'll still buy their albums and go to a show per tour (which used to be at least 3 per tour), but this genre as a whole just doesn't do it for me anymore...
Oh, and coincidentally... I played "In the Name of God" for my non-metal-lovin' girlfriend and, as she read the lyrics, she asked if they were written by a high-school student. :-)
Back to lurking for another couple of years... Hehe... Good to see some of the super old-schoolers still around here. Kez, Cashman, Mosh, Damon, Coldie, the two Brians etc, etc... You want a couple of true fans? How 'bout me and Cashman driving from Atlanta to Philly and back in two days just to see ONE DT show back in '98.. :-) That and going to the Roseland for the 2000 DVD taping were my top two DT moments.
Adam
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Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 17:27:18 -0600 From: "Juan Roman Martinez Rodriguez" <jroman47@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 6710 Message-ID: <LAW11-F20wsGxa7ee5N0001a8df@hotmail.com>
In accordance with discussion in this list of some people doesnt like new DT album or whatever they say, i think it is time for you people to see what the guys want DT to be, it will be simply more machanical, automatic, and not any elaborated or exaust work, playing. Why ? i based this comments on what thay are just saying in all interviews they have- Labrie: I think project mullmuzzer is more poetric more elaborated, its different in DT where is more mechanical, it is more to the piont and thats all. And what MP has been saying, and JP, etc. So it think if you people want poetric, epic, and uncommont elaborated or almost angelical works must look elsewhere or in members of DT side-projects but not in DT. So i think is time to be more open-minded and forget about critizing only cause u wanna do,, i dont see any reason on doing that cause there r not sufficient arguments to support. anyway, whatever you may think, TOT rocks! .... take care and see ya...
_________________________________________________________________ MSN. Mas Ztil Cada Dma http://www.msn.es/intmap/
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Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 18:37:06 -0500 From: Damon Fibraio <dfibraio@comcast.net> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: TOT = Tech.Metal/fusion Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031118183052.01c66a88@mail.comcast.net>
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Hi. Love spock's beard. If you notice, though, their guitar sound is not asthick. I think that the problem here is JP, or any heavy guitar player with a crunchy sound, takes up so much of the mix, that keyboards can't seem to shoehorn their way in. They are either too overbearing or too quiet. Somebody else posted about all the keyboardists that DT has had, and Ihave to weigh in, as a 25 year keyboardist whose heaviest influences are DT, Yes, ELP, and Genesis among others, the following assessment:
Jordan; technically their best keyboardist, as far as I am concerned, blows Derek and Kevin away on technicality. I don't know if he is as sterile in improv as others say, and his organ sound is not my favorite at all, but I love his piano and his lead playing and some of the sounds he comes up with are just beautiful. I like that he emulates Derek's distorted lead sound lately, but wish he could step into more analog synth or heavier distorted organ sounds more, but that's his classical tendencies coming out, Ithink. What do you expect, anyway? Juliard trained people, to my knowledge, don't do that shit. He is my favorite keyboard player of all time, besting out Keith Emerson by mere inches.
Kevin: What can I say, he is the reason I am still playing, long before I discovered Yes or Genesis and when my hero was Geddy Lee of Rush for just doing what he does, Kevin redefined all of my playing from 1995, when I discovered DT to now. To me, his skills are not quite up to Jordan's, but he did some incredible solos, even if his lead sound didn't quite cut through as much. He is what I would have called the classic prog keyboardist, but he never did have a good hammond organ sound.
Derek: Soundwise, the most superior keyboardist DT has ever had. His organ sound ruled and I am still trying to emulate it myself. His lead sounds also ruled. Unfortunatley, derek did not have the chops to cover some of the parts that DT had at the time. When he tried to do the solo for Take the Time, it hurt, his rendition of Wait for Sleep is painful, and to me, he just didn't seem to fit in. if we can only have Jordan's technique with Derek's keyboard sounds, Iwould be extremely happy. But, given the choice, please keep Jordan in the band. I don't know if anybody will be able to replace him, honestly.
At 05:53 PM 11/18/2003, you wrote:
>On Tue, Nov 18, 2003 at 11:41:52AM -0800, Damon Fibraio wrote: > > --=======7C2764DC==== > > Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-63801DB8; > charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > > > I am beginning to think that some of us are a little spoiled here. Brian, > > your opinion is fine and it is yours, but I don't know if it is fair to > put > > down anybody's lyrics based on your perseption of what good poetry is. I > > have TOT and I like it. Is it DT's best material? NO. Iwould be hard > > pressed to say that it is, Iwould also be hard pressed to tell you what > > Ithink DT's strongest material is. Idon't hate any DT releases, even > FII. I > > am no sheep, either. I am considered different, since Ilike all forms of > > Yes, even the 80s stuff, and all Genesis, even the 80s stuff, and all > Rush, > > even the 80s and 90s stuff, when other die hard proggers pass it off as > > commercialism or what not. My only real gripe is how Jordan is basically > > burried in the mix here for the most part, but that is just how it > happens. > > I am used to keyboardists being burried in mixes. I wish a producer would > > come out with some forward thinking in mind and actually put the keys at > > the same level as the guitars for a balanced mix. Rock is not all guitars, > > you know. Why does jazz get it right most of the time and rock never does? > > Probably because guitarists fill up the mix so much and don't allow room > > for other instruments. But that is my own ranting. I am no lyricist and I > >If you haven't listened to Spock's Beard, they are an awesome band with >keys all over the mix. Jon Lord in Deep Purple was pretty loud as well. > >I think the keys sound a little low because sometimes he is playing >textural parts, adding ambience rather than leading. Also in unison >parts, the timbre of the guitar is just more abrasive, as much as >louder. > >T
-- Damon Fibraio, email dfibraio@comcast.net Musician, broadcaster, computer technician, and troublemaker aol instant messenger screenname: dfibraio MSN Messenger screenname: dfibraio@comcast.net: Band site: Visions: http://www.visions692000.com Listen to no Holds Barred Radio. Go to our site at http://www.nhbradio.com
"To those who understand, I extend my hand To the doubtful I demand, take me as I am Not under your command, I know where I stand I won't change to fit your plan, take me as I am."--Dream Theater, As I am
"All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers turn to look at the stars All of us do time in the gutter, dreamers turn to look at the cars Turn around and walk the razor's edge."--Neil Peart of Rush, The Pass
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Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 18:43:14 -0500 From: Damon Fibraio <dfibraio@comcast.net> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 6710 Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031118184227.01c64d28@mail.comcast.net>
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Does anybody think that maybe this so called DT definition is a bit too rigid. maybe the side projects are slowly killing the creative process. Think about it. Everybody takes what they really want to do outside of the so-called DT forumla to a side project. Why not just incorporate it into DT? Why is it suddenly so closed to new ideas? I think that is what kills all prog rock bands is that nobody is willing to stray away from a forumla. there is no formula. There never was supposed to be one. Prog is all about e3xperimenting and changing and progressing. Once you tie yourself down to a formula, you are no better than the corporate pop bands that you are trying not to be. So, maybe DT should not do side projects and instead ofcus more on putting new and fresh ideas into the DT formula. Think about it. As much as I love six degrees and train of thought, don't you think things could have been far better if MullMuzzler, Trans Atlantic, and the others didn't happen?
At 06:23 PM 11/18/2003, you wrote:
>In accordance with discussion in this list of some people doesnt like new >DT album or whatever they say, i think it is time for you people to see what >the guys want DT to be, it will be simply more machanical, automatic, and >not any elaborated or exaust work, playing. Why ? i based this comments on >what thay are just saying in all interviews they have- Labrie: I think >project mullmuzzer is more poetric more elaborated, its different in DT >where is more mechanical, it is more to the piont and thats all. And what MP >has been saying, and JP, etc. So it think if you people want poetric, epic, >and uncommont elaborated or almost angelical works must look elsewhere or >in members of DT side-projects but not in DT. So i think is time to be more >open-minded and forget about critizing only cause u wanna do,, i dont see >any >reason on doing that cause there r not sufficient arguments to support. >anyway, whatever you may think, TOT rocks! .... take care and see ya... > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN. Mas Ztil Cada Dma http://www.msn.es/intmap/ > > >---YTSEJAM-FILTER: This message was posted using the YML command
-- Damon Fibraio, email dfibraio@comcast.net Musician, broadcaster, computer technician, and troublemaker aol instant messenger screenname: dfibraio MSN Messenger screenname: dfibraio@comcast.net: Band site: Visions: http://www.visions692000.com Listen to no Holds Barred Radio. Go to our site at http://www.nhbradio.com
" To those who understand, I extend my hand To the doubtful I demand, take me as I am Not under your command, I know where I stand I won't change to fit your plan, take me as I am."--Dream Theater, As I am
"All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers turn to look at the stars All of us do time in the gutter, dreamers turn to look at the cars Turn around and walk the razor's edge."--Neil Peart of Rush, The Pass
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-- Damon Fibraio, email dfibraio@comcast.net Musician, broadcaster, computer technician, and troublemaker aol instant messenger screenname: dfibraio MSN Messenger screenname: dfibraio@comcast.net: Band site: Visions: http://www.visions692000.com Listen to no Holds Barred Radio. Go to our site at http://www.nhbradio.com
"To those who understand, I extend my hand To the doubtful I demand, take me as I am Not under your command, I know where I stand I won't change to fit your plan, take me as I am."--Dream Theater, As I am
"All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers turn to look at the stars All of us do time in the gutter, dreamers turn to look at the cars Turn around and walk the razor's edge."--Neil Peart of Rush, The Pass
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 6711 ************************** === Contributions to ytsejam: ytsejam@torchsong.com === === Send requests to: ytsejam-request@torchsong.com === === More information at: http://www.dreamt.org/local/ytsejam.php === === Brought by the ghost of ytsejam@arastar.coms past === === Reach the owner of this list at: ytsejam-owner@torchsong.com ===
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